"Fish will not be valuable"

[Curtis West]

Looking over some interviews and info about the game from E3, found this Q&A with Yoshi-P. Link

 

 

The fishing system, how will it work and how has it changed?

The players will get to find out more about Fishing in Phase 4, the system will not be something similar to an action mini-game, we believe that fishing is supposed to be relaxing, you are communicating with nature, and all this nature in Eorzea needs to be relaxed. Depending on the lake, river or ocean, you have to choose your rod, your bait, your lure. This all depends on the water, time of day, what type of fish you are looking for, etc. Obviously RMT is a problem, and their bots can be an issue, we do not want to make the fish valuable, we want to make catching fish an achievement to the player, so you can see your records, see your personal achievements so it will not be RMT lucrative.

 

Anyone want to fish after hearing that? I understand that some people want to be fish casually, just for fun. Doesn't this potentially wipe out fishing as a source of income though for players how invest time into this DoL? I was looking forward to it but now I don't know...

[Desphiria]

I saw that too but I kinna think that he means by the fish not being valuable is that, they won't be sought after. I'm not sure how to explain it, like the bots won't be all GIMMIE THAT FISH IT'S MINE! Then takes it from you? Hehe, I suck at explaining stuff but that's what I kinna think he means. It's like they won't be valuable to the bots maybe but to everyone else they still will be.

[Ellie]

I really have been looking forward to getting more into fishing, and I'm not so much devastated as I am confused. If the fish are no longer valuable, are they still used in recipes? Do you still need them to skill up your culinarian job? What's going on there?

 

It's all still very confusing, and it seems we won't know much until at least phase 4...

[Gerik]

That's odd, but I have to admit, I'm glad I took up Botany and Mining instead.

[Ryanti]

It was going to be one of my main sources, as I was planning on it since I love the minigame.

 

Oh well, alchemy and weapons shit it is.

 

It will definitely sound like I will be fishing less. And I'd like to see the logic behind that decision. Meh.

[Desphiria]

Can't people send feedback and try to talk to the devs about making it like a one button press minigame like in Animal Crossing? I would at least try to talk to them about maybe just doing that, that's always fun. Doesn't Harvest Moon do that too?

[Challoux Baudrier]

If the fish are no longer valuable, are they still used in recipes? Do you still need them to skill up your culinarian job?

 

Yes and yes. I very much doubt the devaluation of fish in the way of gil is going to change whether or not they're still used in recipes or else boiled crayfish just wouldn't be the same and replacing fish is not like replacing hamburger meat. Do you know any disgusting reprocessed variant of fish? (And don't say fish sticks)

[Asyria]

Even though I'm allergic to fish in real life, I'll be palying a Miqo'te... so obviously, I'll still want fish. *nod*

[Curtis West]

I wonder what the outrage will be if he said that about a DoW or DoW class. 

"Obviously RMT playing Dragoon are a problem, we do not want to make playing Dragoon valuable, we want to make playing this class an achievement to the player."

 

Now how many threads will there be in outcry? But it's just a DoL so, who cares -.-

DoL (from my limited experience in 1.0) have always been given the shaft. It really bothers me that they still have the guts to say "If you want to just play a DoH/DoL job, you can!" when in reality they are second-class professions at best. This shows that hasn't changed much in 2.0. :frustrated:

[Caysen]

I wonder what the outrage will be if he said that about a DoW or DoW class. 

"Obviously RMT playing Dragoon are a problem, we do not want to make playing Dragoon valuable, we want to make playing this class an achievement to the player."

 

They actually have done just that. Playing combat jobs in v1 and other games has been fairly profitable, because you can farm drops and sell them. Even trash drops would add up. Games have had many problems with RMT bots farming mobs and selling drops. But in v2, monster drops sell for 1-2 gil. To make gil as a combat class you actually have to play the game, do leves and quests, etc. Same thing with Fisher and other crafting/gathering classes now. You can't just farm a bunch of fish or ore and sell them for profit. You have to actually do leves or make things with the fish, cook things and sell those. Craft armor and sell that, etc. Both ways make it much harder for botters to farm up gil.

[Curtis West]

That doesn't account for player to player transactions (auctions house or bazaars, whatever it may be). Sure I can sell a drop for 3 gil but if a crafter needs it to make a 100k item, wouldn't I sell it for a lot more to him? Same with fish. Wouldn't the RMT just do that then, sell to players? Basically if people need fish for whatever reason, it will be worth something. It'd suck if it was truly valueless.

[Amadeus]

I don't know what the angle is here.  If there's a way to make money, someone will make a program to do it automatically.

[Rhostel]

I think it's more about fish not being an efficient means for earning Gil compared to other avenues, in part from not using them for 'essential' crafting recipes. I'm pretty sure it's been indicated that they're not pursuing a total removal of them from any practical purpose at all, just that you won't find you need crafting materials exclusive to Fishing for the one and only best of the best doohickey.

[Rhio]

I think this conversation bears a glance back to a good friend of mine. A friend I like to call history.

 

(If you read that sentence in the voice of Ron Swanson, I assure you it is hilarious.)

 

Final Fantasy XI had a whole plethora of game mechanics in place to ensure that you spent as much time as possible doing things you didn't enjoy. One of these mechanics was fishing. Fishing was screamingly tedious, requiring absolutely no input other than the basic fishing command over and over. It also, however, had a very low overhead cost to get started and produced several valuable fish over time. And since gil in that game was almost impossible to make...

 

You get the idea. Fishing was something you had to do if you wanted to be rockin' those Leaping Boots and thus ever be welcomed into parties as a Dragoon, and if you didn't feel like sitting around for two weeks at a stretch doing so, tough luck. This is fish town, baby, and we're playing FFXI, not your dumbed-down casual themepark that lets you spend more time doing things that you actually bought the game for in the first place.

 

When people ask what killed that style of gaming, I think it's most accurate to say that it committed suicide. But anyway.

 

There are still recipes that use fish, certainly, and based on the game's track record to this point I am sure that fishing will have mechanics to exploit. I think Yoshida's message is not "don't bother fishing" so much as "you aren't going to be forced to fish if you don't want to." Fish are not valuable rarities that are necessary for all advancement; they're fish. You cook some of them and that's it.

[Curtis West]

Fish not being useful is a lot more detrimental for Fishermen than a Dragoon (or any other class) having drops that don't NPC well... because drops are not the sole reason to play Dragoon, right? A true equivalent would be for a DoW/DoM class not to be useful in combat at all.

Anyway, I understand that SE has to watch out for RMT and make fishing more enjoyable. I haven't played FFXI but from some play time on 1.0 I found fishing to be pretty cool as is, and the fish sold for good coin, roughly the same as other DoL drops. I hope they didn't just gimp one class of the game due to RMT, that'd be really sad. 

[Black]

This thread has made me hungry for fish in real life...

 

:lol:

[Zikh]

If they make it really relaxing, not an action minigame, but an actual minigame, that'd still be fun. I mean they could manage it in zelda to make it fun, and you could just haul back the pacing. On a roleplaying server it's all good. I liked fishing in world of warcraft, but it was simple and boring.

 

This should be easy to make enjoyable. Even mouse based.

[racooperii]

Im personally all for it. Ive played Fishing in most MMOs and typically they werent profitable. It was always a means of doing "something" while I chatted or waited for a group. For me I will wxplore other avenues to make money, but Ill still play the hell outta fishing.

[Gimlette]

As cooking is always something i do in any game i'm involved I'll fish.  This just makes it a bit easier for me to relax and gather things i need for cooking.  I understand what they are trying to do.  In a lot of cases farming RMT's dont go the added step of selling to other players.  They farm/gather mass quantities of easy gather or farm stuff and sell it to vendors for quick turnover of gil.  I know this, because i've had characters hacked and had them returned.  (This was in wow)  When the character was returned to me they mailed me everything that had been sold off the character for the time she'd been hacked...Lets just say it took me roughly 4 days to clean out my mailbox

 

So, yes this means your fish are not going to have a high vendor value, but to other players that will use them for cooking and are not inclined to do the fishing themselves (not everyone enjoys that sort of thing no matter how easy it may be), they will still have value.

 

I have mixed feelings about loosing the minigame...sometimes thats fun, sometimes i just need mats for cooking and would rather be doing other things (EXPLORE ALL THE THINGS!!!)...so..yah.

[Curtis West]

If they are just nuking vendor prices, that's fine... not many people vendor things for profit. It's different than saying the fish wont be valuable and will only have merit to the angler. Sort of like saying "Hey I caught the biggest fish this week according to the Fishermen's guild rankings"... that's disappointing. I mean, it's nice but that shouldn't be the reason to fish. I want some gil!

[LandStander]

I think this conversation bears a glance back to a good friend of mine.  A friend I like to call history.

 

(If you read that sentence in the voice of Ron Swanson, I assure you it is hilarious.)

 

Final Fantasy XI had a whole plethora of game mechanics in place to ensure that you spent as much time as possible doing things you didn't enjoy.  One of these mechanics was fishing.  Fishing was screamingly tedious, requiring absolutely no input other than the basic fishing command over and over.  It also, however, had a very low overhead cost to get started and produced several valuable fish over time.  And since gil in that game was almost impossible to make...

 

You get the idea.  Fishing was something you had to do if you wanted to be rockin' those Leaping Boots and thus ever be welcomed into parties as a Dragoon, and if you didn't feel like sitting around for two weeks at a stretch doing so, tough luck.  This is fish town, baby, and we're playing FFXI, not your dumbed-down casual themepark that lets you spend more time doing things that you actually bought the game for in the first place.

 

When people ask what killed that style of gaming, I think it's most accurate to say that it committed suicide.  But anyway.

 

There are still recipes that use fish, certainly, and based on the game's track record to this point I am sure that fishing will have mechanics to exploit.  I think Yoshida's message is not "don't bother fishing" so much as "you aren't going to be forced to fish if you don't want to."  Fish are not valuable rarities that are necessary for all advancement; they're fish.  You cook some of them and that's it.

I couldn't disagree with you or your friend more.

 

I barely touched fishing in XI because I just didn't like and I had no problem making gil. There were BCNMs, HNMs, NMs, farming mobs(I remember the bee's dropped something decently valuable as well as the Goobbues), farming ores, there were a few things to grow in your Mog House that were valuable, and those little outpost things where you had to defend the NPCS for a number of waves (not the WoTG expanion pack, but the normal outpost where you needed an item to start them). Really out of everyone in my immediate LS only one person had fishing decently leveled and she did it just to make sushi. The game didn't force you to do anything except to grind. Hell, barely anyone leveled crafting anyway because it was so expensive, but those that did made a lot of money. 

 

Now I do agree that recipes will still use fish, but I just hope it isn't useless stuff like crawfish soup or something like that. I was actually liking fishing in XIV and planning on doing quite a lot of it. I remember later on they allowed fishers to fish up certain NMs in XI and I would really like that here but I doubt we will get something as cool as that because they don't want NM's to be world monsters, but only appear in FATEs.

[Tabrett]

I'm waiting to see how this will turn out. I admit I'm a bit wary of the news, but there's not much else we can do but wait and see. Being from Limsa, I had/have plans for Kerr to be fairly good at this class. If it turns out to not be enjoyable or profitable, he will still have others to fall back on (armorer/ maybe leather working).

[Draheim]

What I take from that interview, is that, because fishing will require so little interaction, fish -prices- won't be crazy, because anyone can head out to the river or lake, relax, and fish up everything they need themselves. Could be wrong, but that's how it sounds to me, at least.

[Freyar]

As long as I'm not seeing stupid costs associated with repair as a result of fishing like I do with mining, then I'm fine with fishing not being so valuable. It'll be a distraction and any distraction is a good distraction as it pads out the game.

 

I just hope that in the long run it won't be an expense, because crafting sure felt that way early on in V1.

[Xeon]

Personally i don't really care whether fishing is profitable or not, its part of my characters upbringing so it will stick to him. As for ooc reason i see it as a way to pass time. Standing fishing while chatting with some friends in a linkshell or free company usually works.

 

-Xeon