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So if IC =/= IG...


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I was kind of playing in the creator, and while I know features don't really vary by that much between the Miqo'te clans in appearance, I was kind of noticing that for some reason (maybe the big pupils gave it sort of a doll-like image to me), the Male Moon Keeper version of K'aworu looked more..accurate? than his Seeker-made version.

 

Now, Seeker would be more accurate, technically speaking. But if (for whatever reason) the Keeper looks more appropriate, is it okay to just make him as one, since his wiki makes sure to inform you he is a Seeker and such?

 

Just wanted to gather opinions on it.

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I dunno about now but back in 1.0 they were actually pretty different!

 

Seekers had shorter tails I think... and they had different colors to pick from with Seekers having brighter and Keepers darker colors, unsurprisingly.

 

Whatever flies your airship though!

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I'm in an exact same situation, only reversed. Myal is culturally a Keeper, but she has the Seeker's slit pupils. I usually refer to F'lhaminn to convince myself that it's alright (she's a story character who is a Seeker, but with appearance of a Keeper).

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Now' date=' Seeker would be more accurate, technically speaking. But if (for whatever reason) the Keeper [i']looks [/i]more appropriate, is it okay to just make him as one, since his wiki makes sure to inform you he is a Seeker and such?

 

Since the subrace behind the face isn't really something that someone can know IC on first glance, I'd say it doesn't matter. If you make a Keeper that looks like a Seeker, ICly, people should assume that they're such. That said, some might use consider the subrace information IC for a variety of reasons and that'd cause OOC confusion. Also, if the devs add subrace-specific quests or items in the future, you may have to do some serious tapdancing in your RP to explain that.

 

Personally, I would feel the probability of OOC confusion is too great and not do it, but that's just me. What stands out to me is that not all RPers are willing or able to review the wiki in game or in the middle of RP, and so that information is likely to go unread in just the sort of situation where it'd be important.

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The cultural upbringing of your character does not have to match your sub-race or even your race. What if you're a Hellsguard who grew up with Sea Wolves because your adventuring mother died on a pirate ship and you were on board with her? What if you're a Keeper who was raised by Seekers? In both cases you would be a character who looked different from everyone around you, but you would retain the cultural beliefs that you were raised with. Or maybe you even converted later on. Your character's outlook on life is not set in stone by a general description of race and sub-race. Think there are no Lalafell pirates among the Sea Wolves? Look closer... :thumbsup:

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I'm in an exact same situation, only reversed. Myal is culturally a Keeper, but she has the Seeker's slit pupils. I usually refer to F'lhaminn to convince myself that it's alright (she's a story character who is a Seeker, but with appearance of a Keeper).

 

Actually, F'lhaminn is a moonkeeper who, for reasons currently unknown, was adopted by the bear tribe. Whether both her parents were moonkeepers, or one was a moonkeeper and one was a sunseeker is unknown.

 

But the lore post on her says she is most definitely a moonkeeper. :>

 

That being said, as far as 1.0 was concerned the differences were as follows:

 

Moonkeepers had longer tails, blacker/paler skin, fangs, and rounded pupils.

 

Sunseekers had shorter tails, tanner skin, no fangs, and slitted pupils. Sunseekers also had heterochromia, something I don't believe moonkeepers had.

 

As of ARR a lot of that is moot, and I think at one point it was mentioned that certain features such as fangs would possibly be interchangeable between the clans.

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Also, if the devs add subrace-specific quests or items in the future, you may have to do some serious tapdancing in your RP to explain that.

To be fair, in my experience it's not common for roleplayers to incorporate quest storyline into their RP in general. So this wouldn't really be an issue.

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Shouldn't matter at all. Wart is dunesfolk on paper, but I made him plainsfolk in the creator for the sideburns option. I refuse to believe only one clan of lalafell can grow hair on the sides of their faces. Other than that, he has tan skin, light colored hair, and he hangs out in Ul'dah. Unless someone is studying the character creator options, they'd just assume he's dunesfolk. If you're just going keeper for the eyes and keeping the rest looking very seeker-esque, no one will notice or care that you're a keeper. You can still RP your character as a seeker without issue.

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I'm in an exact same situation, only reversed. Myal is culturally a Keeper, but she has the Seeker's slit pupils. I usually refer to F'lhaminn to convince myself that it's alright (she's a story character who is a Seeker, but with appearance of a Keeper).

 

Actually, F'lhaminn is a moonkeeper who, for reasons currently unknown, was adopted by the bear tribe. Whether both her parents were moonkeepers, or one was a moonkeeper and one was a sunseeker is unknown.

 

But the lore post on her says she is most definitely a moonkeeper. :>

 

Boo, I meant that F'lhaminn is culturally a Seeker. So this is still totally applicable to Myal's case. Yes.

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Sunseekers also had heterochromia, something I don't believe moonkeepers had.

 

My 1.0 Keeper of the Moon has heterochromia so it was a trait shared by both. The reason why Keepers have round pupils and Seekers have slitted pupils are based on their genetics more than anything. Keepers of the Moon are nocturnal, so they have wider pupils in order to take in more light during the night, while they are also natural hunters which is why they have longer tails, fangs, and larger ears. Longer tail allows for better balance while running, while fangs are obviously meant as natural weapons, and the larger ears for keener hearing.

 

The Seekers on the other hand are diurnal, as well as primarily being from the desert, so the slitted eyes take in less light. In a way I always saw the difference between the clans like Wild Cats (Keepers) vs Domestic Cats (Seekers).

 

As for not being able to determine someones clan immediately IC? I'm not so sure about that, not entirely anyways. If I saw a Miqo'te with black skin and white hair, I think it's a safe bet to assume their a Keeper, just like if I saw a red skinned Roegadyn it's safe to assume they are Hellsguard. With that being said, you can be born one way and raised another.

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As for not being able to determine someones clan immediately IC? I'm not so sure about that, not entirely anyways. If I saw a Miqo'te with black skin and white hair, I think it's a safe bet to assume their a Keeper, just like if I saw a red skinned Roegadyn it's safe to assume they are Hellsguard. With that being said, you can be born one way and raised another.

My thoughts exactly.

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Ive been saying this alot in my posts today it feels like but, Aslong as there is a logical and well explained reason of X not being with X and rather is with Y there shouldn't be any problems or conflicts inrp? 

 

-Xeon

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Also, if the devs add subrace-specific quests or items in the future, you may have to do some serious tapdancing in your RP to explain that.

To be fair, in my experience it's not common for roleplayers to incorporate quest storyline into their RP in general. So this wouldn't really be an issue.

 

Oh, I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to, say, a piece of armor that's Keepers of the Moon specific; it can't be used by or earned by anyone else. If you wear that, then assert IC that you're a Seeker of the Sun, you need to either tell people to ignore what's visible on their screen (not a good idea, IMO) or figure out a way to explain why you have that armor. That said, I don't feel it's very likely that the devs will release such things, but you can never know what their plans are.

 

As for ignoring quest storyline generally, I personally feel that ignoring it out of hand leans towards lore breaking (after all, the quests establish a lot of the lore). It's a fine line between incorporating the storyline and the lore it contains into your story and using too much of it to become The One True Hero. In my experience, rejecting quest storylines entirely is only really common in some MMOs, but that's a topic for another thread. :)

 

Also, on the topic of identifying subrace, I meant that people will identify them by their looks, so I agree about making assumptions based on appearance. If you make a member of one subrace that looks like another, in absence of other information, people will assume they are what they look like, which gets back to the OP that it's probably fine to do what they're planning.

 

In terms of playing one race that was raised as another? There's no problem there, as long as there's an explanation. Go for it. :)

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As for ignoring quest storyline generally, I personally feel that ignoring it out of hand leans towards lore breaking (after all, the quests establish a lot of the lore). It's a fine line between incorporating the storyline and the lore it contains into your story and using too much of it to become The One True Hero. In my experience, rejecting quest storylines entirely is only really common in some MMOs, but that's a topic for another thread.

I wasn't saying ignore the lore that takes place as though it doesn't exist. I was just saying that it's typical for roleplayers to acknowledge that their character is not the specific person doing the quest (especially if it's an important plot point). This true especially for non-combat characters, but even typical "fighter" characters in my experience don't really RP the quest storyline (not ignoring the lore: just not incorporating the quest storyline into their character's story).

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Like I said, some games promote that more than others. In CoH, for example, it was pretty common to tie the various plots in to your character, "genericizing" elements as required. Using one of the last dungeons in Wrath of the Lich King in WoW as an example, in my experience, you have some people who say the events happened but they weren't involved ("I never fought the Lich King"), some who say they were involved but as one part of a larger group ("I was part of the last great battle against the Lich King"), and some who genericize the event ("I fought a really powerful undead in the service of the Lich King"). The first approach is totally fine unless you're running around in gear that only comes from that dungeon, because then you have to explain how you got ahold of it IC... unless you want to tell people that you look different than your character model, and to me, at least, that's pretty immersion-breaking.

 

Of course, you also have people who say the event never happened "in their storyline," which I think we can all agree is Not Good.

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Like I said, some games promote that more than others. In CoH, for example, it was pretty common to tie the various plots in to your character, "genericizing" elements as required.

 

Not doing this and being determined to keep all of the plot elements IC on a character caused me to quit playing my main for 6 months or so at one point because of a major plot point for 'natural' characters where they put a techno-wizardry heart pump into your character... which if you followed the IC plot pretty much meant they weren't natural anymore. 

 

I had a plot arc for that character and she died near the end of one of the final dungeons ICly. I took several months and finally wrote out an extended story to explain the intervening time and altered her personality and setup accordingly off-screen while hooking into other character arcs with permission to bring her back and finish off her story satisfyingly. And yes, for those wondering, she stayed dead after. Retcon/magic resurrection setups cheapen that kind of plot event imo.

 

Using one of the last dungeons in Wrath of the Lich King in WoW as an example, in my experience, you have some people who say the events happened but they weren't involved ("I never fought the Lich King"), some who say they were involved but as one part of a larger group ("I was part of the last great battle against the Lich King"), and some who genericize the event ("I fought a really powerful undead in the service of the Lich King"). The first approach is totally fine unless you're running around in gear that only comes from that dungeon, because then you have to explain how you got ahold of it IC... unless you want to tell people that you look different than your character model, and to me, at least, that's pretty immersion-breaking.

You can also pretty easily say that your purchased it, traded for it, or were given it as a gift after saving the life of an off-screen adventurer who was involved in that particular battle. Possibilities are pretty endless without resorting to "my character doesn't look like this". I do think you should respect the uniqueness of that kind of gear by working out an IC explanation for it that's better than "Well I was walking around and found it" or that your supposedly non-combat character killed the hero of [whatever] or won it in an epic duel of some sort. Though I've seen those too.

 

Of course, you also have people who say the event never happened "in their storyline," which I think we can all agree is Not Good.

 

I agree with that. It's like going into a shared fiction anthology work and ignoring the world bible. Poor form imo, but I solve it by not playing with those people and end up placing them on ignore if they won't accept a friendly "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in your form of RP."

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You can also pretty easily say that your purchased it, traded for it, or were given it as a gift after saving the life of an off-screen adventurer who was involved in that particular battle. Possibilities are pretty endless without resorting to "my character doesn't look like this". I do think you should respect the uniqueness of that kind of gear by working out an IC explanation for it that's better than "Well I was walking around and found it" or that your supposedly non-combat character killed the hero of [whatever] or won it in an epic duel of some sort. Though I've seen those too.

 

Yep! That's exactly what I'm getting at. :) The important thing is to have a plausible explanation for why your character has something "weird" about them. If you've got that, you're golden.

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