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Hello everyone!

 

I joined this forum in order to get involved in FFXIV RP and better my own character backstory. I'd like to portray Arlieth as a half Duskwight (father's side) and half midlander (mother's side) character. I would like to use the social stigma of the uncommon union to further my character's drive to both do better and to be a better person. However I haven't found a single thing in lore (or in the forums with the search function lol) to substantiate this idea.

 

My questions are: Is it possible for the two species to mate (Not going for ERP but don't want to break lore with the idea)?

 

and

 

Are there already existing characters in the game who are half breeds and if so how are they treated?

 

I'm just curious cause I'd really like to try the idea cause it would be something different and a challenge to properly portray. This being said I don't want to waste time developing an idea that will seem... well silly by canon/lore standards.

 

Thanks for the help!

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To answer your questions...

 

Do half-breeds exist? Yes, they do, but they're extremely rare. The devs confirmed that cross-race breeding is possible. (There's a dev post reference from the Lodestone General Forums running around somewhere ...)

 

Do we see them in game? No, there aren't any known NPCs that are half-breeds. That said, the devs have indicated that the average Eorzean is fairly tolerant, and since you'd look like one of the two races due to the limitations of the character creator, it's unlikely anyone would pay it much mind.

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Hello, and welcome! We have pies in the closet, right below the spiked ceiling that slowly falls.

 

The NA loremaster has stated in one of his posts (in the official lore forums) that half-breeds do exist, but are extremely rare. It is not stated why, though: it could be social stigma or a biological issue. So, in a purely technical viewpoint, you can roleplay a half-breed. I'm unsure if you should do that, though...but I'll come back to that in a second.

 

Second: I think the only half-breed in lore is a Miqo'te, but she's a half-breed in the sense he's half Sun Seeker and half Moon Keeper, meaning she has blood of two clans of the same race and, therefore, doesn't really qualify as a half-breed (at least in the sense you are using it). So, no, I do not think there's any half-breeds.

One of our lore gurus will surely corrcet me if I'm wrong.

 

Now, I'll explain why I have my reserves about going for a half-breed.

The first reason is that it will be impossible to portray visually: the character creator doesn't support half-breeds, so you'll have to settle on an appareance and get used to be called an elezen/hyur depending on what you pick. This is a minor reason, though. Like I said before, there's no in-lore reason as to why you couldn't play a half-breed. There are also ways you can work around it (using descriptions, or even use the lack of visual distiction as a character trait...though that nullifies the 'social stigma' you wanted to use). But, most of the time, people will think you are just trying to be a special snowflake.

 

The second and most important reason is that, as stated previously, half-breeds are rare. To put it with the words better people than me would use, it's a 'Thing' about your character: something that makes the character special only for the purposes of making him special.

 

The third problem is with the social stigma. It's dependant on other player characters. If they don't follow it (by not shunning the character away, not disregarding him...by basically being good people, really) then it comes out just as a meaningless trait that only exists to give your character reasons to go into angsty and dramatic episodes.

 

For your wording, I think you probably wouldn't fall on the angsty side of things, so you might be able to pull it off. My take would to make the social stigma something that pushed him into travelling. Maybe the Duskwight clan he was part of shunned him heavily until he decided (or was forced) to leave. This way you can keep the social stigma side of the character, but instead of being interpreted by others as a 'special sparkly star thing' about him, it will be a part of his history.

Following this thought, I'd personally drop the half-breed thing and go for a hyur that was adopted by a Duskwight (maybe he was friends with the real parents, or he found him alone after the Calamity and took pity on his life) but who was shunned and disliked by the other members of the clan. Duskwights have a nasty reputation and, maybe, this particular clan was quite xenophobic.

 

I ussually try to stay away from in-universe rare characteristics such as this, as it's like placing a big neon sign over my head, claiming for attention. It sends the wrong message. So I would go for a more mundane and, dare I say, common, character.

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Second: I think the only half-breed in lore is a Miqo'te, but she's a half-breed in the sense he's half Sun Seeker and half Moon Keeper, meaning she has blood of two clans of the same race and, therefore, doesn't really qualify as a half-breed (at least in the sense you are using it). So, no, I do not think there's any half-breeds.

One of our lore gurus will surely corrcet me if I'm wrong.

 

 

F'lhaminn is actually a full blooded Moonkeeper, she just has Sunseeker naming conventions for reasons that have yet to be revealed to us. Likely taken in by Sunseekers for whatever reason.

 

Anyhow, yes, half-breeds do exist in Eorzea. It's confirmed that they can exist, however as of now we have yet to see any actually represented in-game, as Ildur said. So canonically, you're in the clear. :cactuar:

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F'lhaminn is actually a full blooded Moonkeeper, she just has Sunseeker naming conventions for reasons that have yet to be revealed to us. Likely taken in by Sunseekers for whatever reason.

 

Well... not exactly. :) The linked dev post indicates that she's a Seeker, but that she might have a genetic anomaly resulting in Keeper features, or that she has some Keeper blood.

 

EDIT: It's true that she could be a full-blooded Keeper taken in by the Seekers, but that's just one possibility from the dev post. Societally, "(w)e know for certain that F'lhaminn was raised as a Seeker of the Sun..."

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F'lhaminn is actually a full blooded Moonkeeper, she just has Sunseeker naming conventions for reasons that have yet to be revealed to us. Likely taken in by Sunseekers for whatever reason.

 

Well... not exactly. :) The linked dev post indicates that she's a Seeker, but that she might have a genetic anomaly resulting in Keeper features, or that she has some Keeper blood.

 

EDIT: It's true that she could be a full-blooded Keeper taken in by the Seekers, but that's just one possibility from the dev post. Societally, "(w)e know for certain that F'lhaminn was raised as a Seeker of the Sun..."

 

Likely she is a Keeper of the Moon raised by Seekers. She has absolutely no Seeker traits other than her name.

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Hello, and welcome! We have pies in the closet, right below the spiked ceiling that slowly falls.

 

 

Well... that's oddly terrifying lol. Pies are fantastic but are the worth the risk of a permanent skylight in my noggin? That's the question.

 

And thank you everyone for your information. The idea I was going for was that Arlieth's father was a Duskwight (and a gladiator at that) and Arlieth's drive is to be like his father despite him Hyur limitations. The social stigma I was going for was the ostracizing of both his family and him for his Hyur heritage since from what I've read about Duskwights they're very haughty and blood proud.

 

I'm not a very big fan of angst in my characters because I don't want to come to a wonderful world like Eorzea and be a sad person, but I do enjoy the challenge (and Idea) of playing off racial profiling in a character. But I can see how it would be community based and the only way I think I could make it community based is to be a sad person. "Oh woe is me ya'll shouldn't be friends with me cause I'm not true Hyur or Elvaan." So thanks for the feedback.

 

Also if you look at my avatar that was my attempt at doing half elvaan. I went Hyur with the Duskwight style hair and the more angular features. But yeah, there's not much you can do with the current character creator. xD

 

Thanks!

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As mentionned elsewhere, half-breeds are too often a way to say "hi I'm special" and generally frowned upon if it's mentionned often. Someone who comes up and starts RPing by OOCly describing their half-breed-ness or mentioning it ICly will likely set off a dozen of alarms in other RPErs. :P

 

The impossibility to portray it in-game has been mentionned...

 

As far a half-duskwight specifically, I believe duskwight are possibly the most insular species so a half-duskwight is possibly more rare than any other half-breed.

 

All in all, it's your choice in the end, but it's risky.

 

Anyways, if you want to play with racial profiling, playing a duskwight might be enough! There's a thread about Duskwight somewhere around here...

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F'lhaminn is actually a full blooded Moonkeeper, she just has Sunseeker naming conventions for reasons that have yet to be revealed to us. Likely taken in by Sunseekers for whatever reason.

 

Well... not exactly. :) The linked dev post indicates that she's a Seeker, but that she might have a genetic anomaly resulting in Keeper features, or that she has some Keeper blood.

 

EDIT: It's true that she could be a full-blooded Keeper taken in by the Seekers, but that's just one possibility from the dev post. Societally, "(w)e know for certain that F'lhaminn was raised as a Seeker of the Sun..."

 

Likely she is a Keeper of the Moon raised by Seekers. She has absolutely no Seeker traits other than her name.

Ferne forgets the third possible option.

 

Three: It could be that SE done goofed and tripped over their own lore. Instead of trying to correct it, they simply brushed it under the rug and created a reason for the anomaly since F'lhaminn is a side character and not a major character we'll likely see ever again. He simply gives us scenarios as to why such an anomaly can exist, but never clearly states as to why. Trying to spell yes out of maybe is redundant. You're still one letter short.

 

On the matter of half breeds....

 

1.) Who cares if the game can't depict your character 100%. Many aspects of a character can't be visually represented in-game. We shouldn't limit our character to the confines of the game's technical limitations due to visuals. That isn't to say, "hey, my character has wings!" or "my character is actually an Amal'jaa!" What it means is adhering to the lore, what is accepted in the lore, and what is accepted in the roleplay community. Mixed-race characters are confirmed to exist, and while they may be rare, there are a handful of instances that other players RP their character as that may not be equally as rare, but are rare occurrences none the less. To dismiss the plausibility of one trope is to place a mark on all the other tropes that can't be represented in-game to the fullest extent.

 

2.) On the matter that other RPers won't recognize the fact that the character is a half breed, thus dismissing the social stigma that is associated with it, I call to example character height. Character height can only be depicted in-game up to a certain extent, basically what the game limits us to. Say a full Wildwood stands at a staggering 7 fulms and 6ilms. He's considerably taller than normal Elezen standards, but this isn't depicted in-game, only in RP. Being different, in any way, can be a social stigma. With the case of height, others might make light of him, shun him, or even fear him. Don't think so? Look at the handful of books and movies that have this social stigma as a backdrop to the character. Back to the case of half-breeds. If one player wants the other player to react accordingly, both parties should be well informed about the visual nature of the characters. If my character is a half breed and I tell the person I'm rping with and they don't knowledge that fact, that's the choice of the other character/player. Maybe it's a non issue to them. Keep in mind that while there is racism, sexism, and other social stigmas in the world of XIV, there is also a level of tolerance. 

 

3.) Here is a list of things that are considered rare occurrences or things that happen in the RP community that shouldn't have as much abundance as they do, yet they are accepted none the less.

 

  • Male Miqo'te
  • Garlean Turncloaks
  • Ala Mhigan Refugees
  • White Mages
  • Dragoons
  • Black Mages
  • People with knowledge of Magitek technology 

I could really go on, but I'm in no mood to dig up every single occurrence. Fact of the matter is, if you guys are touting this as such a rare occurrence, what about every other supposed rare occurrence that happens in XIV that we dismiss as the norm in the RP community?

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1.) Who cares if the game can't depict your character 100%. Many aspects of a character can't be visually represented in-game. We shouldn't limit our character to the confines of the game's technical limitations due to visuals. That isn't to say, "hey, my character has wings!" or "my character is actually an Amal'jaa!" What it means is adhering to the lore, what is accepted in the lore, and what is accepted in the roleplay community.

 

I ussually don't let the limitations of the creator stop me when imagining characters. However, the limit forces one to think if you really want that particular physical feature and, if you decide you indeed do, how to show it within the limitations. For example, maybe I want my character to be missing an eye completely. That's quite fine and all I have to do is just emote at the beginning of an interaction to stablish it. The same could be done with a half-breed, certainly.

 

2.) On the matter that other RPers won't recognize the fact that the character is a half breed, thus dismissing the social stigma that is associated with it, I call to example character height. Character height can only be depicted in-game up to a certain extent, basically what the game limits us to. Say a full Wildwood stands at a staggering 7 fulms and 6ilms. He's considerably taller than normal Elezen standards, but this isn't depicted in-game, only in RP. Being different, in any way, can be a social stigma. With the case of height, others might make light of him, shun him, or even fear him. Don't think so? Look at the handful of books and movies that have this social stigma as a backdrop to the character.

 

The books and movies don't serve any purpose here, because neither of them are cooperative storytelling. In a movie/book, the author can pick a trait, decide it's a social stigma, and have all the universe adhere to that. In roleplay, you have characters controlled by other players. The social stigma aspect of your character dissapears instantly if the majority of the other players don't follow up on it. If you claim your character is stigmatized, but no one but NPCs of your making are there to stigmatize the character, he isn't really stigmatized. It's just background. As said: the whole social stigma thing falls apart if the other players don't follow it.

 

At least if you want the social stigma to be an active part of the character, I mean.

 

3.) Here is a list of things that are considered rare occurrences or things that happen in the RP community that shouldn't have as much abundance as they do, yet they are accepted none the less.

Male Miqo'te

Garlean Turncloaks

Ala Mhigan Refugees

White Mages

Dragoons

Black Mages

People with knowledge of Magitek technology.

 

There's a difference with some of those and half-breeds.

Male Miqo'te sudden growth in population has to be handwaved or explained somehow because the game allows for players to create them, unlike half-breeds,and most players will use whatever means the game gives them to create the characters they want. This will mean there might or might not be many male Miqo'tes running around. Mechanically, male Miqo'te can now be as plentiful as any other.

Something similar happens with White Mages, Dragoons and Black Mages: the game allows the player to (eventually) become one, so we have a small story-and-gameplay segregation where, in lore, some of those classes are ancient lost arts and should be exceedingly rare but, in gameplay, they will be plentiful.

This two occurrences are mistakes on Squeenix loremaking: we are forced to handwave their inconsistency for the sake of roleplaying what they give us.

 

The other examples: Ala Mhigan refugees, Garlean turncloaks and people with magitek technology populations are highly dependant on the roleplaying community. If there's no lore contradicting the existence of any of those, or specifying that they are very rare, then there's no reason to think they are. If there is, though, then they are a 'trait' of your character. Personally, I'd say that, except for the Ala Mhigan refugees, the other two are a 'Thing' or 'trait' about your character anyway.

I can see why you say garlean turncloaks should be rare (because of the brainwashing and imperial propaganda), and the same with magitek technologists (since Eorzea isn't very high tech), but I'd like to see where you saw that Ala Mhigan refugees are rare in lore.

 

At the end, though, you can play whatever you want if you have good enough reasons to justify it.

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I have to admit that while I agree with the spirit of Mtoto's post, I have some disagreements with point 2 and 3.

 

As far as point 2 goes, I would say that the limitations of the engine should not be seen purely as OOC mechanics. I believe theya re in place to set the normal minimum and maximum size physically possible in each species. Therefore a very tall character is best portrayed by pushind that slider all the way up and simply going with that. Pretend afterwards that you're taller than another character who also chose maximum height can cause conflict.

 

I think the examples given for point 3 are so-so... Garlean turncoats or spies is something I'd frankly not touch, but I respect people's choices to RP them. Everything else (aside from knowing a lot about magitech, maybe?) is not limited at all, as the game allows us to play any of those as part of its mechanics. Well, except Ala Migho refugees, which doesn't require anything special.

 

I will point out again however, that no matter how many players there are, the PC's are the minority in the world. We simply don't have computers powerful enough to account for how big Eorzea should be and how many people would live there, so we're limited with what is considered a reasonable amount of NPC's making it look like there's more advemturers than anything else.. which makes no sense at all.

 

Given that, Any kind of character that should be rare but is seen a lot in the player population can still be considered rare in the "reality" of Eorzea. It's part of our "job" as RPers to imagine those things.

 

Now half-breeds... well, they're not rare. They're pretty much unheard of. Only thing they have going is some dev said it's possible. And there's this Miqo'te who may or may not be one. It's like when Drizzt was the one and only nice drow and some time later, you had Good-aligned rows running all over the place, dancing naked under the moon and saving children from burning orphanages. That's when I run away from the Forgotten Realms.

 

 

In closing, the problem with Half-Breeds, or anything that challenges basic character creation options, is that it challenges other players' perceptions of the world we all share. When RPing in a MMORPG, it's important that we all share the same view of the world, or we may encounter or cause conflicts of immersion. That's why most RPers will frown at things that deviate too much from lore, sometimes to the point of becoming "lore nazis".

 

 

That said, I'm not saying Half-Breeds are wrong.

As I said before,  they're risky, but it can be done, especially since we have official word about the possibility of their existence.

I wonder however if the character would be just fine without being a half-breed? Why this need to diverge from the option we're given?

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*gives Asyria a thumbs-up, especially on the place of mechanics*

 

I wonder however if the character would be just fine without being a half-breed? Why this need to diverge from the option we're given?

 

Everything else aside, that's the key question -- what does this buy the character narratively that they couldn't get by being more mundane? A Duskwight is going to be on the receiving end of significant bias and is well supported in game and in lore, for instance. I'm always of the opinion that going into the far stretches of the possible with regards to lore requires an equally strong benefit to the character's narrative to be a good idea. Otherwise, it's just being a "special snowflake" for its own sake, is it not?

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At risk of making myself sound like a lore nazi, I want to explain why the examples I gave are rare occurrences and/or are instances that should not happen as frequently as they do within the context of the lore. Recall, however, that I'm a strong supporter of people doing whatever they want so long as they're happy and it doesn't break what's established. Keep in mind that the word rare simply means not occurring frequently and it shouldn't be mistaken for meaning nearly non-existent. 

 

Male Miqo'te: This should be a no brainer. Due to the nature of how the Seeker of the Sun and Keeper of the Moon clans are set up, there are naturally far less males than there are females. That alone doesn't make male Miqo'te rare. However, what does make them rare is the fact that male Miqo'te are known to shy away from society and even in the instances we've seen male Miqo'te NPCs, they are few and far between. I'll agree on a point that you made Asyria - there are more characters in the world than what we see in-game. We're likely just not seeing all the male Miqo'te simply because they're hiding themselves from society, much like how it was in 1.0.

 

Garlean Turncloaks: I'm not talking about spies here, or Imperials for that matter. I'm talking about citizens of Garlemald who have since fled their homeland in order to seek sanctuary in Eorzea. Among them and most notable are the workers of the Garlond Ironworks. We see on several occasions in the context of 1.0 that Imperial soldiers are seeking out people who have fled Garlemald in order to silence them or take them for other purposes. Many people fleeing are risking life and limb in order to do so. That isn't to say that a person of Garlean citizenship is extremely rare or impossible, it only means that the frequency that someone would flee Garlemald would be low and we wouldn't see many do so. Further, and I'll touch on this point a bit later, Garleans are more or less brain washed, especially the subjugated ones. If they aren't, then they are likely to remain out of fear, patriotism, or even a mix of both.

 

Ala Mhigan Refugees: I stand by my statement that Ala Mhigan refugees would be rare and add on the detail that there's a strong social stigma against them, especially in the regions of Thanalan. When Ala Mhigo was captured by Garlean forces, the city-state itself was in turmoil. Yes, many would have likely fled, but where would they have gone? Ala Mhigo was never part of the Eorzean Alliance and has had a bloody history of conflict with its neighbors for over a hundred years. Those who fled eventually had to settle in Little Ala Mhigo because the city-states refused to take them. There is also the other side to the coin, the Ala Mhigans willfully embraced the Garleans upon them taking the city. When King Theodorac's rule came to an end due to the social upheaval and the collapse of order within Ala Mhigo, the Garleans simply walked in and took it. Many welcomed them, thinking that their new captors would treat them far better than their tyrannical king. Either through brain washing or simply because they wanted to, many Ala Mhigans sided with the Garleans. Many who managed to flee Ala Mhigo became mercenaries, taking refuge where they could. They couldn't settle in Gridania (at the time of 1.0) because the Elementals would likely not warrant it, which in turn would cause the Gridanians to turn them way. The couldn't settle in Ul'dah because the citizens shunned them and looked down upon them. The Holy See of Ishgard lets no one in through the Gates of Judgement, which leaves Limsa, a trek across the sea, forcing many to become pirates and brigands. 

 

The reason I say they're rare is we can take a look at Little Ala Mhigo, and examples of other Ala Mhigans we see in game, and see that their numbers are few and far between. Their camp is small and the NPCs make mention of them struggling to survive due to their limited resources. We read between the lines, but even in the five years between 1572 and year 5 of the 7th umbral era, their population has not grown and the camp has seen little growth. 

 

White Mages: White Magic was founded sometime in the 5th Astral Era and quickly abolished sometime between then and the 6th Umbral Era due to the misuse and perversion of the magic which led to the umbral era in question. Since then, the Padjal have been the keepers of the knowledge of White Magic for centuries, only giving the knowledge to those they feel worthy of it. As we don't know the lore surrounding White Mage in A Realm Reborn, we can only speculate that this tradition holds true. White Magic isn't something readily available to the public and there are reasons for it - they don't want history to repeat itself. 

 

Dragoons: Let me clarify that I speak about the Azure Dragoons, aka, the dragoons that wear the artifact armor. Ishgard does have normal dragoons - knights who battle dragons. However, the Dragoon job isn't something that is widespread, even the skills are exclusive to the Azure Dragoon. In all of recent history, there has only ever been one Dragoon at a time, chosen by the Eye of Nidhogg which was taken by Haldrath - the first Azure Dragoon. In the context of the plot in 1.0, the eye picks two Azure Dragoons, so it's evident that it's possible to have more than one at one time. However, the reasoning as to why there was two chosen or the conditions that are needed for another to be selected are never revealed. The power of the Dragoon is bestowed upon them by the Eye of Nidhogg, so everyone RPing as a real Dragoon is essentially saying they've been selected by the Eye. Keep in mind this is the lore that's been established in the game, and as a RP community, we choose to ignore it for the sake of letting everyone be able to be Dragoons. 

 

Black Mages: Again, Black Magic was also abolished sometime between the 5th Astral Era and the 6th Umbral due to the darkness that spilled across the land due to the misuse of the powerful magics. In the context of the 1.0 lore, we are chosen by the crystal given to us to be given the powers of Black Magic. The Lalafell who we learn from has only one other apprentice. From both those we can speculate that Black Magic is still an art lost to the general public and possessed be only a few people throughout the realm. Once ARR goes live with the Black Mage quest details, we'll know more about the lore revolving them and how accessible the magic. Again, we have lore that's established yet we, the RP community, decide to generally ignore it due to mechanics.

 

People With Knowledge of Magitek Tech: Most of the knowledge of magitek, outside of Garlemald at least, is held by the Garlond Ironworks and most primarily by Cid nan Garlond. Magitek knowledge isn't limited to them per se, but if it was more accessible, the city-states wouldn't be asking the Ironworks to retrofit their air-ships with improved magitek tech when they could just do it themselves. Limsa wouldn't have such a strong desire to confiscate every piece of Garlean weaponry they come across to reverse engineer them to use the technology on their warships and own weaponry. Even more so, the Imperials wouldn't have a need of hunting down men and women who have knowledge in magitek if they had the knowledge themselves. Of course, this could simply mean that the Ironworks has advanced magitek knowledge, but also keep in mind that magitek wasn't invented until most recently - roughly thirty years recently. Further, the spread of the knowledge and overall use of it was limited to Garlean engineers and officials, a handful of which died during the incident at Bozja Citedel.

 

I simply offer the above as information as to why these things are considered rare. I could very well be wrong, and I'm ready to be. The overall point was that - yes, there are things within the context of the lore that are rare that we as a role-playing community tend to dismiss as being rare for the sake of allowing everyone to RP as they want. The whole halfbreed issue, if it can be called that, is similar in nature to someone having a physical deformity, a missing limb, abnormal facial features, or even a magitek arm. The social stigma associated with these afflictions and differences isn't generated simply just by having them, but how the character displays them and how the player is able to convey them. I mean, using common sense, it wouldn't make sense for there to be a Roegadyn and a Lalafell halfbreed. Until the details are further confirmed, its basically up to the community to decide what is really acceptable when it comes to half breeds. Since we don't know the full nature of half-breeds, we don't know how that will affect appearance. It could just be a matter of a Elezen having Hyur proportions, we don't know. I say let the player do as they please so long as it doesn't deviate strongly from the world our characters live in. Once confirmation is provided, retconning is a simple matter of changing some minor details. I agree that it would be very difficult, however, I don't think that someone doing so makes them or their character 'special' or that they should feel apprehensive about doing so.

 

/endwalloftext

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Oh I agree that they're all rare!

What I'm saying is even if they're common among player characters, that doesn't make them common in the game world, because player characters are a minority in the "reality" of Eorzea to bgin with (which cannot be realistically represented in a video game) and player characters have a tendency ,as a minority, to represent the rarest inhabitants of the game world.

 

It's like how the Star Wars books, movies, comics, games and cartoons (aside from the episode 4-5-6 movies) seem to have a lot of jedis in them considering they're supposed to be rare... but that's only because the stories revolve around them as opposed to the billions of non-jedi people on each planet.

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I'm... really surprised after reading all this. You mean the game gives you the chance to become certain jobs, while also giving you a lore that states that there's only a single special chosen soul of each job in the world?

 

How does that work?? What kind of absurd lore is that? @[email protected];

You can't create a lore that makes certain things so rare if you then give everyone and their mother the chance to use them! Are they trying to discredit player characters as if they weren't real or not a part of the world?

 

I'd seriously have never guessed that no one is actually supposed to be a White Mage or a Dragoon. I'll keep this in mind, but I find it absurd nonetheless *sweatdrops*.

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The 1.x story seemed to emphasize the "you specifically are the one chosen one" stance that you typically see in other MMOs. Right or wrong narratively, that's the path they took and is why you have some who feel that you can't RP knowing a Job ICly, as that's akin to saying you're the personal bodyguard or lover of the Sultana or that you're the exiled crown prince of Ala Mhigo -- you're basically asserting you're a canonical character by doing so.

 

We don't yet know what the 2.x job quests will look like (the lore of the jobs is up on the main site, though). Given the way the main scenario quest is written, I have hope that they'll continue their commitment to a "you are but one of many chosen ones" theme and make it so that any PC can plausibly know a Job ICly, in much the same way that they make it entirely reasonable (or, really, mandatory for doing content IC without an IC workaround) for all PCs to have the Echo.

 

Of course, if they change the quests (which I find likely), that'll cause 1.x characters some heartburn, as they'll either have to retcon to the 2.x quest line or come up with some other explanation -- neither of which is very fun.

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I'm... really surprised after reading all this. You mean the game gives you the chance to become certain jobs, while also giving you a lore that states that there's only a single special chosen soul of each job in the world?

 

How does that work?? What kind of absurd lore is that? @[email protected];

You can't create a lore that makes certain things so rare if you then give everyone and their mother the chance to use them! Are they trying to discredit player characters as if they weren't real or not a part of the world?

 

I'd seriously have never guessed that no one is actually supposed to be a White Mage or a Dragoon. I'll keep this in mind, but I find it absurd nonetheless *sweatdrops*.

Can anyone help with references and context? This would be really good to dig into.

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I'm going to start off by saying that I'm generally extremely in favor of adhering to official lore wherever possible, and not writing anything into your backstory that would contradict official sources. But.

 

I agree that the nature of most of the job lore in the game is sort of a sticky topic. Most of the job questlines that I've seen more or less state that the player character is extremely exceptional to be able to pick up the mantle of that particular long-lost Job, such that it's extremely unlikely that more than a very small handful of people (or just a single person) in Eorzea can canonically actually have undertaken that storyline.

 

But then, the main storyline in most of these MMOs have almost always been the same way: you are the chosen one, you are the one person that all of the rulers of the realm are able to trust, and you are the one person that's able to save the world from total destruction (and for good reason: if you were just a random schmuck who was milling around town while other people fought the big bads and saved the world, it'd probably be a pretty boring story!). Obviously, we can't ICly take these stories at face value, and have to either allow for some fudge factor ("there were actually many of us, not just me") or ignore them altogether ("someone in the world did that stuff, but I was nowhere near it"). We've already dealt with this to some extent with the Echo, where many players choose not to possess it ICly, since they don't want to give their character that much cosmic importance.

 

In terms of game mechanics, this also creates a conflict when the job abilities and equipment that we get become canonically implausible for our characters to possess. If you're playing a Dragoon and you're jumping all over the place and wearing fancy Dragoon armor in combat, should that be considered IC? Or are you just a regular lancer, despite what the game makes it look like? If you're healing as a white mage, are you actually the chosen one? Or are you just a generic healer? If you're not ICly a White Mage but someone comments on the AF that you happen to be wearing, what do you do? Is there a way that you can be a "White Mage" but not the "White Mage?" Do we have no choice but to completely ignore all of the rich Job lore that SE has written, or is there some way that we can adapt it to make it somewhat less lore-breaking? (I don't have an answer or opinion on this, I just think it'd be an interesting point of discussion.)

 

It's obvious that the player-centric stories of MMOs, and even the game mechanics themselves, can often be directly at odds with the RP group canon that we try to create for ourselves, and because of this, it can be extremely difficult to not step on the toes of the official lore in some way. We should strive not to trample across the fiction whenever possible, but I think it's impossible to remain 100% lore-adherent, especially as new lore is written later on that may contradict an assumption you made years ago. As such, I believe that we should allow each other some wiggle room about it, and some understanding. (Just so long as we don't all go off and start making ourselves Archons and turncoat Legate!)

 

EDIT: For references, there should be videos of all of the 1.0 job questline cutscenes on YouTube. Most of that stuff is in there.

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Of course, if they change the quests (which I find likely), that'll cause 1.x characters some heartburn, as they'll either have to retcon to the 2.x quest line or come up with some other explanation -- neither of which is very fun.

 

I may be a little off in making this assumption, but most of the people from 1.0 that I spoke with felt a certain amount of resentment about that whole "you are the single chosen one" element some of the job story arcs fortold. I don't think anyone strictly adhered to that, knowing full well that we are living in a world with multiple white/black mages and dragoons, etc. So maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think anyone's going to be really upset if they do change the quests to make things more sensible from an MMO standpoint (as opposed to being kind of geared towards a single-player console type questline which seems sort of like the angle they were going for with some of the 1.0 quest lines). I certainly hope they make changes like this!

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References are on the main FFARR website, in the description of jobs. Basically, all jobs are supposed to be an ancient lost art that almost nobody can use.

This is the result of the storyline being planned as a singleplayer game: there, you don't have to worry about having thousands of player characters sharing space and all of them being masters of some ancient art that is canonically lost. It's a segregation between gameplay and story caused by poor planning.

 

You can get away from it in a non-roleplaying enviorement because, there, player made backgrounds don't matter at all. Only the game story matters and, as far as the game's story is concerned, the player character is a single one.

Not so in roleplay, though: if the game mechanically allows you to be a Dragoon, a White Mage or a male Miqo'te, then every player has a right to use it in their background.

Half-breeds, though, aren't supported mechanically. Hence why I think it's best not to make one. There are also other important consideration, that I think Freelance mentioned somewhere before: what does being a half-breed achieve story-wise or character-wise that other, more common trait wouldn't?.

 

We could handwave rarity of jobs and races with Asyria's way: saying that all Player Characters represent rare individuals. That pretty much nullifies all rarity we can find in Player Characters because they are all supposed to be special individuals. I agree with this to some extent, though I think a character's 'special-ness' depends enterely on the player creating him.

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References are on the main FFARR website, in the description of jobs. Basically, all jobs are supposed to be an ancient lost art that almost nobody can use.

This is the result of the storyline being planned as a singleplayer game: there, you don't have to worry about having thousands of player characters sharing space and all of them being masters of some ancient art that is canonically lost. It's a segregation between gameplay and story  caused by poor planning.

 

The main FFARR site says White Mage's art is in revival and there is no mention of scarcity in the Dragoon section. I don't mean to derail the original topic so I'll just make a separate thread.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=3353

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Unless I misunderstood, at least there are "normal Dragoons", so RPers might still be able to participate in whatever happens at Ishgard. There's supposed to be some sort of an army there, yes?

 

Ah, I'm very sorry for having gone offtopic (>_<; I'll stop now. I was just worried because my partner wanted to be a Dragoon. Not the chosen, more special than you one; just one out of many.

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None of the jobs themselves are really "rare" in the current age. The arts themselves may have at one point been lost to the ages, but that isn't really the case anymore. Square made certain to make note of that. Dragoons, for example, aren't really all that rare. It just isn't likely to be easy to rise to the station of Dragoon in Ishgard. Not to mention that when you rise to the rank of Dragoon in Ishgard, you are granted a Gae Bolg by the Holy See. That's basically to be your trusted lance, as it's forged from dragon bone and tempered in dragon blood if I'm not mistaken. Lacking that weapon as a "true dragoon" might have some interesting consequences, and make for interesting background. The only thing that is rare in terms of dragoon lore is the Azure Dragoon, which is just something that you can canonically avoid, since it's a pretty meta-gamey subject to touch on.

 

Other trades, such as the Monks of the Fists of Rhalgr haven't been lost to the ages. There just isn't as many around as there used to be after the purge in Ala Mhigo. There are plenty of ways for your character to have either met a Monk who escaped, or have been a member of the order who escaped. Hell, you could learn from some one who learned from an actual Monk. That's one easy way to justify so many of a certain job. One person learns from an original source, and they teach two friends, and those two friends teach two friends.

 

In this age of adventurers, knowledge of the jobs is common place, plain and simple. You can easily justify being any of the jobs. Some might have certain consequences or requirements if you plan on learning from the original source, or being an "original disciple" of the job (like the Dragoon requirements mentioned earlier).

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I may be a little off in making this assumption, but most of the people from 1.0 that I spoke with felt a certain amount of resentment about that whole "you are the single chosen one" element some of the job story arcs fortold. I don't think anyone strictly adhered to that, knowing full well that we are living in a world with multiple white/black mages and dragoons, etc. So maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think anyone's going to be really upset if they do change the quests to make things more sensible from an MMO standpoint (as opposed to being kind of geared towards a single-player console type questline which seems sort of like the angle they were going for with some of the 1.0 quest lines). I certainly hope they make changes like this!

 

I'm sure you're right. :)

 

I should have explained better: the "not fun" heartburn is having to do the retcon or bend your existing story to match the new quest lines, not the net result of the changes. That the new quest lines are a lot more plausible and viable in the MMO environment is something I'm sure we're all looking forward to. :)

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