FC vs LS

[Jomoru]

I've noticed afew setups where the FC was PVE/OOC while the LS was built to be the rp end. That seems to me slightly backwards. I mean the known perks I see for FC include Housing and that seems much more Rp rewarding than anything PVE rewarding.

 

is there something I am not quite getting?

[Desmond Aryll]

To each their own. There's tons of options for LS/FC's already so it stands to reason you'll find any combination of uses soon if not now.

 

8-)8-)

[Moondoggie]

Most of the perks for a FC seem to involve buffs so it makes more sense for a FC to be based on progress leveling and instances. Guild housing is nice but players by the sound of it will have the chance to have their own place anyway. I can see a few situations where a FC might be used for RP only but for the most part they benefit player advancement so much it'd be a waste not to use it for that.

 

The LS provides links to other RP'rs and a place to have collective RP through your own chat channel and you can have more than one so it makes more sense to use those for the RP end instead of throwing all your eggs in one basket.

[Jomoru]

what buffs are there for FC outside housing?

[Havoc Snow]

I never understood why RP and PvE were seen as being so vastly separated. Why can't one have their cake and eat it to? The Blades have an OOC LS made for PvE organizing and what not while our FC is treated as being IC. The only reason I could see the argument that FC needs to be OOC would be if you never intended to actually play the game just because you were an RPer.

 

Also as far as I've seen so far, the only FC buffs they have are things like higher yield when gathering and more XP.

 

Here we go, found the list:

 

The Heat of Battle -Increases EXP earned through battle by 5%. -Duration: 24h

Earth and Water -Increases EXP earned through gathering by 5%. -Duration: 24h

Helping Hand -Increases EXP earned through crafting by 5%. -Duration: 24h

A Man's Best Friend -Increases EXP earned by companions by 5%

Brave New World -Increases the attributes of all members under level 10 by 10%. -Duration: 24h

Live off the Land -Increases Gathering by 5. -Duration: 24h

What You See -Increases Perception by 5. -Duration: 24h

Eat from the Hand -Increases Craftmanship by 5. -Duration 24h

In Control -Increases Control by 5. -Duration: 24h

That Which Binds Us -Increases spiritbonding speed. -Duration: 24h

Meat and Mead -Increases duration of food effects by five minutes. -Duration: 24h

Proper Care -Slows gear wear by 10%.

Back on Your Feet -Reduces duration of Weakness after being revived by 10%. -Duration: 24h

Reduced Rates -Reduces teleportation fees by 20%. -Duration: 24h

[Eva]

Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this, I think.

 

For my part, I think a FC geared towards an individual RP group makes a great deal of sense, for the reason the OP mentioned among others (the structured rank listings, etc.)  For smaller guilds who might not progress as quickly, it may make sense to cluster together into a FC if leveling up the FC stuff is also a priority.

 

I find the FC buffs to be kind of marginal though (hardly game-altering), and it's been my opinion that these Free Companies are very well suited to some of the RP groups that are out there.  The only major draw is that folks can only belong to one and that might hamper membership a bit, particularly for people who like to have the option of belonging to multiple RP guilds.

[Jomoru]

I never understood why RP and PvE were seen as being so vastly separated. Why can't one have their cake and eat it to? The Blades have an OOC LS made for PvE organizing and what not while our FC is treated as being IC. The only reason I could see the argument that FC needs to be OOC would be if you never intended to actually play the game just because you were an RPer.

 

Also as far as I've seen so far, the only FC buffs they have are things like higher yield when gathering and more XP.

 

Here we go, found the list:

 

The Heat of Battle -Increases EXP earned through battle by 5%. -Duration: 24h

Earth and Water -Increases EXP earned through gathering by 5%. -Duration: 24h

Helping Hand -Increases EXP earned through crafting by 5%. -Duration: 24h

A Man's Best Friend -Increases EXP earned by companions by 5%

Brave New World -Increases the attributes of all members under level 10 by 10%. -Duration: 24h

Live off the Land -Increases Gathering by 5. -Duration: 24h

What You See -Increases Perception by 5. -Duration: 24h

Eat from the Hand -Increases Craftmanship by 5. -Duration 24h

In Control -Increases Control by 5. -Duration: 24h

That Which Binds Us -Increases spiritbonding speed. -Duration: 24h

Meat and Mead -Increases duration of food effects by five minutes. -Duration: 24h

Proper Care -Slows gear wear by 10%.

Back on Your Feet -Reduces duration of Weakness after being revived by 10%. -Duration: 24h

Reduced Rates -Reduces teleportation fees by 20%. -Duration: 24h

 

 

Thanks that does clear things up slightly

[FreelanceWizard]

To provide another concrete example, the reason Mysterium's OOC channel is its FC chat isn't because the FC isn't an IC entity (it is), but because the "one FC" limitation would keep people from joining our IC chat. So, the IC channel is an LS, so we can invite people from other FCs who are allies or ICly members of the group. The FC itself is, however, the IC organization of the group.

[Naunet]

The only reason I could see the argument that FC needs to be OOC would be if you never intended to actually play the game just because you were an RPer.

 

That argument makes no sense. o.0

 

Shared storage and the buffs provided by housing items and such are extremely useful for PvE/PvP-focused guilds. There's also name recognition, and it's possible that completing runs as an FC (since the game tags you) will provide achievements/notoriety, which is a significant draw in terms of team building and recruitment (no one ever sees what LS you're in).

 

Honestly, the FC/LS set-up screams to me that it's the perfect solution to "Do I go with a PvE guild or an RP guild?" I can get my RP from the multitude of connections made via linkshells, all the while sating my hardcore gaming thirst with a PvE-focused free company.

[Eva]

To provide another concrete example, the reason Mysterium's OOC channel is its FC chat isn't because the FC isn't an IC entity (it is), but because the "one FC" limitation would keep people from joining our IC chat. So, the IC channel is an LS, so we can invite people from other FCs who are allies or ICly members of the group. The FC itself is, however, the IC organization of the group.

 

This is kind of how we're probably going to be doing it with Crystalline as well after seeing it in action in Beta, since a couple of our members wanted to join other FC's for varying reasons. Our plan is not really to use the FC chat for anything substantial and keep most of our content/conversation happening over the linkpearl. We're still hammering out all the nuances though since there's that balancing act between wanting to keep an accurate roster and use the FC to its fullest (thus providing perks to those members who remain a part of it), but also not wanting to exclude anyone or leave anyone feeling like a second-class member. It's tough.

[Havoc Snow]

The only reason I could see the argument that FC needs to be OOC would be if you never intended to actually play the game just because you were an RPer.

 

That argument makes no sense. o.0

 

Shared storage and the buffs provided by housing items and such are extremely useful for PvE/PvP-focused guilds. There's also name recognition, and it's possible that completing runs as an FC (since the game tags you) will provide achievements/notoriety, which is a significant draw in terms of team building and recruitment (no one ever sees what LS you're in).

 

Honestly, the FC/LS set-up screams to me that it's the perfect solution to "Do I go with a PvE guild or an RP guild?" I can get my RP from the multitude of connections made via linkshells, all the while sating my hardcore gaming thirst with a PvE-focused free company.

All you've proven to me is that FCs are good for PvE/PvP, but not that they NEED to be OOC. Like I said, why can't you have your cake and eat it to? Why does being in an RP Guild have to be mutually exclusive from being in a PvP or PvE Guild? Just because we RP means we for whatever reason can't also be a progression based guild?

 

As you said, that argument makes no sense.

[AkhutaiAngura]

I'm in the camp of preferring an IC FC, as well.

 

I mean.. You don't have a guild hall, if you only rely on LS's for RP.

 

Granted, I'm in Ash's FC, so I've got an IC FC that is also going to be doing endgame content - And like him, I'm unsure why the two have to be seperate. I don't understand the strict rules of keeping an FC OOC only.. When it can be both,a nd both can benefit from it. that's not to say you can't have a LS to RP that's the same as the FC, except it allows other people in.. The way I say it, The Blade's FC chat would be for communication between guild members, private from any 'allies' tat we have, that would have access to our LS. 

 

People. Always over complicatin' things. ^.~

[Jomoru]

Ash's company does look tempting, on the otherhand I've never been a big fan of Antiheroes...

[Naunet]

All you've proven to me is that FCs are good for PvE/PvP, but not that they NEED to be OOC. Like I said, why can't you have your cake and eat it to? Why does being in an RP Guild have to be mutually exclusive from being in a PvP or PvE Guild? Just because we RP means we for whatever reason can't also be a progression based guild?

 

The vast majority of the time, a guild that tries to do both ends up having to choose to primarily focus on one or the other. Either the RP begins to suffer in frequency as people focus more and more on running dungeons and preparing/carrying out raids, or players begin to shirk their PvE/PvP responsibilities in favor of more roleplay. The former happens more often than the latter, as guilds that get into PvE tend to bring in players who start chafing at the bit, so to speak, and demand more and more time spent on PvE activities. It's also problematic from a recruitment standpoint, as PvE guilds and RP guilds have dramatically different recruitment requirements. The former may need to search for very particular classes/jobs and may need to set certain capability requirements; these kinds of restrictions can be detrimental to an RP guild, which tends to want to take in anyone who fits the guild's theme ICly, regardless of class or ability.

 

The fact of the matter is they are two very different beasts. Yes, you can be a roleplayer and also PvE well. But nine times out of ten, you are not going to be able to successfully run a competitive PvE guild that is also a very strong roleplay presence. The demands are simply too disparate. Note that I emphasize competitive. Casual PvE is certainly more than viable for any guild, but the amount of resources and dedication it takes to push the front lines in PvE (and even PvP, depending on the game) tends to win out over RP if a guild tries to do both.

 

Focusing my RP organization(s) into linkshells negates the conflict of interest between RP and PvE guilds and allows both to flourish on their own.

[AkhutaiAngura]

I disagree. COmpletely.

 

In WoW, I was Alliance side on Moonguard. Been there since the server opened.. Was in a guild called the Saviors of Sanctuary - They've also been there since the server opened, and still are. 

 

We were one of the top raiding guilds on the server, and we still held RP events three or four times a week. We just happened to find RPers that also liked to raid.. And, maybe could task better. I dunno. But we did both, and did it very well. If we fell short of a run because we didn't have enough guildies, the leader and a few of us officers had connections and we could pull from a raiding guild we were friends with - Filling our empty spots with members of theirs that had missed out on a raid, or had an alt they wanted to run with.

[FreelanceWizard]

This is kind of how we're probably going to be doing it with Crystalline as well after seeing it in action in Beta, since a couple of our members wanted to join other FC's for varying reasons. Our plan is not really to use the FC chat for anything substantial and keep most of our content/conversation happening over the linkpearl. We're still hammering out all the nuances though since there's that balancing act between wanting to keep an accurate roster and use the FC to its fullest (thus providing perks to those members who remain a part of it), but also not wanting to exclude anyone or leave anyone feeling like a second-class member. It's tough.

 

Indeed so. One solution I've been kicking around is keeping our OOC channel as an LS as well, but then we've got this FC channel that doesn't get used. At that point, other than the housing (which has immense RP uses) and name recognition via tag, what's the benefit of an FC? A big PvE FC that's RP friendly can provide every other FC advantage faster.

 

Originally, we were going to use the IC LS just for our "Dear Friends" (external allies) and keep FC chat as a private IC channel, but I didn't want to pass on players who joined, say, Wildsky or Unity for their PvE desires, nor did I want to block people from joining who would ICly swear the oath but are already members of another FC.

 

It's certainly a complicated problem... do we have any other LS+FC leaders willing to weigh in with their thoughts?

 

EDIT: On the topic of RP progression guilds, one of the most hardcore progression guilds on Firiona Vie in EQ was Prime Nightmare, which was an evil-only medium to heavy RP guild. Just sayin'.

[Naunet]

We were one of the top raiding guilds on the server, and we still held RP events three or four times a week. 

 

I'm honestly not intending to be rude, but you were one of the top raiding guilds on an RP server. I played on Ravenholdt in WoW, and the guild I ran was consistently in the top five on the server, but I know that doesn't really mean much. It was Ravenholdt. Not exactly a bastion of amazing PvE potential.

 

Regardless, it's not like I'm saying people can't do whatever they want, or try whatever they want. IC Free Company. OOC Free Company. OOC Linkshell. IC Linkshell. Bunch of both or don't join any at all. All that matters is what you, yourself want to do. I just thought I'd post why I personally have chosen to be in an OOC Free Company. I am not shaming anyone, and I'd rather others didn't treat my decision as though it were some sleight.

[Khaze'to Zhwan]

I have to agree with Naunet here, for us in the EU, we wanted a single place where we could interact and do end game content when the majority of the server is asleep, because we are basing our FC on time zone and activity level and nothing else we are drawing a lot of people whose characters would not perhaps get along IC.  So for us having it OOC and then RPing in LS's makes all the sense in the world.

[Havoc Snow]

See, this is what doesn't make any sense to me. Basically what you're saying is that if I were in a FC that was RP and PvE oriented I'd effectively have to pick one or the other, because for whatever reason you can't balance both within a single entity. But if I were to split that, make an RP LS, and a PvE FC, somehow managing two different groups makes it easier to balance? How does that logic make any sense at all?

 

At least with a dualistic FC you have the benefit of insuring that everyone progresses together, where as if you split it so RP is in LS and PvE is in FC, you run the risk of being left behind and replaced if you give priority to RP over PvE. Ultimately it doesn't make sense why you would need to keep the two separated from one another if you were going to split your focus anyways.

[Naunet]

Another plus for PvE that FCs have is a higher member cap. PvE guilds tend to need significantly larger player pools than RP guilds. That's not to say that RP guilds can't be big, of course, though personally I prefer RP groups that are no more than 20 or so people. But consider that end game content will include 24 man raids. To sustain a consistent raiding roster, you're going to need a great deal more than just 24 people in your guild, not counting social members you may want to bring in to keep things lively (which is something Unity has a place for, as the FC is meant first as an LGBT safe-space).

 

For me, linkshells make more sense as roleplay tools, as they allow for the establishment of multiple IC connections for a character. You can only be in one FC, after all, and no matter how well a second FC may align with your character's interests, you can't join a second one, or a third. That's where linkshells really shine.

---

But if I were to split that, make an RP LS, and a PvE FC, somehow managing two different groups makes it easier to balance?

 

*snip*

 

Ultimately it doesn't make sense why you would need to keep the two separated from one another if you were going to split your focus anyways.

 

First, you really don't have to be so aggressive. It's not like I'm telling you you can't do whatever the hell you want. All I've done is explain why I have made the choice for an OOC free company.

 

To somewhat answer your first question, the two groups have dramatically different recruitment goals, so separating them can make things easier.

 

Secondly, sometimes particular concepts don't translate into an IC thing. I didn't want to force people to RP in Unity, as its concept is based around being a social hub and safe-space for LGBT and allied players. With that in mind, those of us who had come up with an RP group concept turned the CRA into a separate linkshell so that we could better refine our recruitment. The two groups have completely different applications that reflect these recruitment goals, and completely different requirements for members. Combining them simply wouldn't work, because Unity is not the CRA, and the CRA is not Unity.

[Cesar]

LS and FC should be IC I think. That's why you join an RP server correct? I just wish we had to be IC all the time. That would solve it all! 

I mean why not? We are the officially unofficial RP servers of FFXIV. I guess I am one of those fanatics who wants to recreate a virtual world the most realistically immersing as possible. Because honestly, you can find a game to go PvE grind for things. If we kept it all IC yes it would take substantially longer to reach end game and get all the cool shiny weapons and armors we all fawn over. BUT imagine the ride there..... -whew- THAT would be amazing. Another plus is if it was server wide IC it would honestly promote LS/FC to LS/FC teaming up. At least it would in my brain, which is a frightening place i must admit.

[Faustina]

I am in agreement with Ashren, Kaln and others here. In WoW I was in a guild that did both RP and PVE as well as some PVP. We did it all and had no problems managing it. I am not a hardcore raider by any means, but I did a lot of Raid Leading in my guild and we managed to be very successful at it. To me, it's not really a competition to see WHO GETS THROUGH CONTENT FIRST ON THE SERVER, but more of a I want to see all the content in this game, and do it with like-minded people that I enjoy gaming with. I also enjoy the challenge of raiding.

 

At the same time, our guild had a rich backstory and history, and we had regular super fun RP events on top of regular RPing. Being new to this whole LS/FC business, I intend to seek out a FC that does both RP and PVE (with maybe some PVP too, though not required) on the server. I intend to keep LS for other things, like having a place to chat with my friends when we're all doing different things and aren't in a party together. 

 

Maybe it just comes from the sense of community (including making RL friends that I now see regularly outside of gaming) I had with my guild in WoW, but I find it most enriching to create stories with people I see as part of my 'group' as a whole. To each their own, but I have seen PVE/RP guilds done successfully first hand, so that is what I want to find on Balmung.

[Havoc Snow]

I am in agreement with Ashren, Kaln and others here. In WoW I was in a guild that did both RP and PVE as well as some PVP. We did it all and had no problems managing it. I am not a hardcore raider by any means, but I did a lot of Raid Leading in my guild and we managed to be very successful at it. To me, it's not really a competition to see WHO GETS THROUGH CONTENT FIRST ON THE SERVER, but more of a I want to see all the content in this game, and do it with like-minded people that I enjoy gaming with. I also enjoy the challenge of raiding.

 

At the same time, our guild had a rich backstory and history, and we had regular super fun RP events on top of regular RPing. Being new to this whole LS/FC business, I intend to seek out a FC that does both RP and PVE (with maybe some PVP too, though not required) on the server. I intend to keep LS for other things, like having a place to chat with my friends when we're all doing different things and aren't in a party together. 

 

Maybe it just comes from the sense of community (including making RL friends that I now see regularly outside of gaming) I had with my guild in WoW, but I find it most enriching to create stories with people I see as part of my 'group' as a whole. To each their own, but I have seen PVE/RP guilds done successfully first hand, so that is what I want to find on Balmung.

This pretty much sums up my sentiments perfectly. For me I've never played in a game before that even allowed you to separate RP from PvE as far as guild was concerned, and most of the best RP I've encountered came from doing Guild based RP events. For me, so long as you don't care about rushing through content, I see no reason a group can't be an RP Guild and still be a functioning PvE or PvP Guild as well. In most cases, raids take place one or two nights a week, which leaves 4-5 days in the week to RP whenever you want.

[Naunet]

 

I mean why not? We are the officially unofficial RP servers of FFXIV. I guess I am one of those fanatics who wants to recreate a virtual world the most realistically immersing as possible. Because honestly, you can find a game to go PvE grind for things. If we kept it all IC yes it would take substantially longer to reach end game and get all the cool shiny weapons and armors we all fawn over.

 

Then I'd be barred from either playing the game at all, or just never roleplaying the characters I enjoy roleplaying. :<

 

I tend to focus my RP on non-combat characters, or characters who just generally wouldn't be doing a lot of the stuff that your character "does" over the course of gameplay.

[Khaze'to Zhwan]

So is everyone ignoring my post or do they acknowledge that in that case at least it makes sense for it not to be IC.