LandStander Posted September 2, 2013 Share #51 Posted September 2, 2013 A good rule of thumb is to very rarely if ever include the main storyline into your character. There were a few characters in GW2 who said they killed the dragon, but the NPCs around town indicate that the dragon was alive and well as did many characters. This just creates a headache environment as people try to find a reason for their characters to stand out of the crowd. In regards to FFXIV, I am okay with people fighting the Primals. During the storyline, the cs when you are listening to the GC's giving their speech, Raubahn or the children, I forget, say that the Immortal Flames have gone out many times and defeated Ifrit, but their resources and numbers will just continue to decrease. They also state that the summoning of the Primals is happening at a much faster rate. If a character wants to say he was in a party that quelled one of the primals, I will play along with it, but they better have a damn good battle story to tell me . As long as they are not saying that they killed or defeated a major plot character, such as the main Garlean baddie from 1.0 or saying they are a part of the Scion (which is an extremely small organization). Link to comment
Belmont Posted September 2, 2013 Share #52 Posted September 2, 2013 I don't know if I'm overstepping my bounds as it being only my second post (first if you exclude my intro,) but I like to think of the Main story as kind of a...rumor, if you will. Sort of like a "What has happened," instead of a "What will happen." After all, while every character is unique, at the same point it has to be kind of another faceless mask within the crowd or else we have a bunch of outrageous stories in the taverns exclaiming how we killed a Primal, while someone in another tavern talks about how they killed the Primal. With it being a rumor, then anybody can recite the story, and it can even become a staple within a bard's repertoire of stories of the heroes of the past. Kind of like that, you can leave the Hero/Ine, to the imagination of the player. They can places themselves as the hero they want to be, but at the same time they can keep their head level to where it's a famous story of someone like him/her that had done these exciting things. Link to comment
Lost River Posted September 2, 2013 Share #53 Posted September 2, 2013 Seeing that many parts of the story is focused on large events that center around a single character instead an overarching group effort, I would rp the main story as the heroes are NPCs and rumors. Grand Companies can be RP'd at least as it involves the whole of the community if they wish for a military backing. Link to comment
ShoggMommy Posted September 2, 2013 Share #54 Posted September 2, 2013 I think my approach is a bit different to most other people, that doesn't mean I think my approach is better or that anyone else's is worse. I'm just different. I choose to actively roleplay through the main story because I like to stay in-character as much as possible and basically I enjoy thinking that my character is the 'hero' of the game. However, as has rightly been pointed out, this could put my character at odds with other characters at different points in the main story. Therefore I consider this my personal roleplay journey. I don't assume that anything my character knows or has accomplished as part of the main story would also be part of another character's roleplay world. Yes this does make it a bit tricky at times but I let myself be guided by the characters I'm interacting with at the time. I do this as well actually. I have "two" versions of my character. I have a story-canon version which I rp with my significant other which is strictly game, and I have a non-canon version which I omit certain things. It does make it tricky but it is easy to remove certain things which would not make sense at a larger story with others. Link to comment
Raccoon Posted September 2, 2013 Share #55 Posted September 2, 2013 A good rule of thumb is to very rarely if ever include the main storyline into your character. There were a few characters in GW2 who said they killed the dragon, but the NPCs around town indicate that the dragon was alive and well as did many characters. This just creates a headache environment as people try to find a reason for their characters to stand out of the crowd. In regards to FFXIV, I am okay with people fighting the Primals. During the storyline, the cs when you are listening to the GC's giving their speech, Raubahn or the children, I forget, say that the Immortal Flames have gone out many times and defeated Ifrit, but their resources and numbers will just continue to decrease. They also state that the summoning of the Primals is happening at a much faster rate. If a character wants to say he was in a party that quelled one of the primals, I will play along with it, but they better have a damn good battle story to tell me . As long as they are not saying that they killed or defeated a major plot character, such as the main Garlean baddie from 1.0 or saying they are a part of the Scion (which is an extremely small organization). While the core of the Scions is small, I seemed to think it was implied that they're basically collecting all the people with Echos since they mention others aside from their leader and the hero of the story. Momodi also seems to think they're moving in earnest... as in recruiting loads of capable adventurers to their cause. So while they may have been small originally, that could be changing. So, yeah, I wouldn't complain about that so much as someone actually mentioning they're part of it since it's supposed to be a secret organization of sorts. Link to comment
CrimsonMars Posted September 2, 2013 Share #56 Posted September 2, 2013 I barely even pay attention to the main story, but after reading your post, you've giving me a bit to think about. I don't know if any of my characters would accept affiliation with "the Waking Sands" as easily since for one, it may apply a lot of pressure. I'm sure Chiyo would eventually but Sinette wouldn't be as eager since she JUST came to Eorzea, and hasn't even fully adjusted to its commons yet. So yeah, I think I'll pretty much disregard the main storyline IC almost entirely as well. MMOs aren't typically known for story anyway. Link to comment
SadPandaLulu Posted September 2, 2013 Share #57 Posted September 2, 2013 I used to encounter this issue a lot in WoW because I was a heavy end-game raider for a time; top of the line guild etc. As a result I was usually decked out in some very impressive gear and it wasn't really something I could take off in case we went into a raid or I was called to sub in to one. Unfortunately for me I also ADORED roleplay and I generally find that people look at your gear and make assumptions. ...So you know where this is going. Black Temple gear = Killed Illidan Sunwell Gear = Killed Kil'Jaedan etc etc Those who were RPing used to jump to the conclusions that my character was in the team who killed Illidan/Kiljaeden/Arthas and while technically on an ooc level this is accurate as she has the realm first; I find that it's just awkward to roleplay that achievement out. The solution? I actually have it that my discipline priest, the heavily armed and impressive looking creature that she is, is part of the front line strike teams that take on the most dangerous threats. In short, she's in the military and would most likely come from something similar to the Marines or SAS. So yes, I do RP her as being powerful, this comes with her age but I also RP her as being part of a very large team that take out certain targets. The result of this is that she's on the frontlines against Illidan killing demons, Arthas while killing undead and so on. I never indicate that she helped kill Arthas, instead I like to think the NPCs who tend to show up in those raids did it. Instead I prefer to say that she took part in some very dangerous battles and while it's great she came out alive, you can be damn sure that there's no time to rest because there's always something that's going to cause a problem. There's absolutely nothing wrong with RPing a storyline as existing providing that you temper it with logic, reason and some realism. So long as your character continues to have vulnerability, they can still be in a powerful position. In the case of overarching storylines like WoW/FF14 etc, it's more about the OOC players ability to rein in their own character and make them more realistic, you can't just blame the storyline for making them seem ridiculous! That being said I do find it's good etiquette to not imply that you've killed a primal/god etc, as someone else said, "A hero did it" or indicating that you were part of a large scale war effort, is far better. TLDR - There's nothing wrong with following the storyline and making reference to it in RP, but it has to be tempered by realism from the OOC player. As most people can't do this very well, it's usually good etiquette to simply not mention certain aspects of the story. Link to comment
Mayumi Shiro Posted September 2, 2013 Share #58 Posted September 2, 2013 @ Clover: while your idea would be awesome, FC's and LS's can barely agree on storylines to run, let alone entire communities. People simply desire far too much different things from their RP for something so large scale to work. However, 2-3 guilds can, with organization, create a pretty meaningful storyline for them. But to try and force a server-wide RP isn't fair for those who don't want that particular RP in their storyline. @OP: I maintain the single player storyline was written for gamers, not RPers. To try and force it into your RP usually flat out won't work, for reasons everyone have already illustrated. I disagree here. My character from the begining set out to become a hero. That was and is the driving goal. I maintain that I go thru these events IC and they work for me as a character to do so. Granted some things get tricksy now and again but for the most part it -NEVER- comes up. I never walk around saying I'm the mighty ifrit slayer or I took out Titan yada yada. It happened to my character and I reference it with folks that I was with for those events and even then only if it's relevant to reference at all, which it rarely is. I had a minion out for giggles the other day, the baby behemoth. I was in the middle of a surprise RP (randomly occured and I was most happy) when someone broke character to tell me that the minion wasn't IC and I should put it away. Initially I never regarded it as IC..it was just there. However at being told what was and was not IC for me..I countered. So, now it is an IC thing for me and her name is Violet. Moral of the story here, don't tell someone else what they can or cannot do ever. If you don't like the way they RP than go Rp elsewhere. Thankfully I'm surrounded on a daily basis not only by a great FC full of wonderful Role Players but happen to find RP around every corner as I'm out adventuring. I suspect I'm lucky that way. Link to comment
Raeletta Posted September 2, 2013 Share #59 Posted September 2, 2013 This thread caught my eye as it's important to the way I intend to play. I'm glad to see my idea of generalising any major story plots seems to be a fairly accepted method, it's taken a lot of wonder out of my brain so I can think about other things for RP Link to comment
YesGood Posted September 2, 2013 Share #60 Posted September 2, 2013 I'm on the fence about this. I've met a lot of decent people, mostly in Warcraft, whose characters have been in pretty much every major Horde or Alliance excursion. They're extremely knowledgeable and usually have veteran, true-Faction characters so I don't have any issue seeing it. In FFXIV I think using the Primals, because it's almost more of a game mechanic than a real set-in-the-timeline-chain-of-events it becomes a conflict at times if too many people want to claim they're involved in such situations. The major battle(s), however, might not be unlikely at all, though again, I suppose if everyone was there and got time-warped, it might be a little strange. I don't think it's -quite- an etiquette thing so much as a matter of taste + world-related issue. If SE puts out expansions and patches and those expansions or patches include major events where a large number of people could legitimately be there, I'd find it acceptable to hear a fair number of people claiming to have been involved ICly, so long as it matches their character's goals in the game. I hesitate to throw my lot in just because I've seen such situations abused (Sir, I have a hard time believing that you, personally, overthrew the Lich King with your band of guildies...) because I find when existing people start doing that, new individuals tend to shut down their ideas at 'I'm not ah'posed tah make my characters involved with anything in teh lore' and I don't like to restrict that aspect of roleplay for anyone in any way. At the same time, some people unintentionally go the opposite route. Again, using WoW as I almost always do as an example, the whole of the issues with Vol'jin and Garrosh and the rebellion were often treated as a series of events that hadn't happened yet while some others were treating it as an on-going thing and others yet believed it was done and over with. It leads to a conflict of interest at times when you have Kor'kron RPers trying to assault Darkspears who're treating the issue like it hasn't even happened. General acceptance on situations like that alleviate the issue in large-scale communities, but it almost never happens because -that- for some reason is one of those situations where everyone gets hesitant about telling someone what time it is for them. I'm sure in many cases it comes down to OOC communication, and much as I can appreciate the maturity and understanding that that can create, I prefer to keep my OOC communications with another RPer as limited as possible unless it's asking how they want to handle a fight (assuming PVP isn't an option) or apologizing for a really difficult-to-understand typo. So in short, to review, I think it's a matter of taste and, if done tastefully, contributes plenty to a good RPer's history and I, in no way, would support seeing that appear as an over-arcing, all-inclusive rule that might end with some people who misinterpret or don't give a situation/individual a chance to show their legitimacy being ostracized or corrected needlessly. It's entirely situational, taking in game events or lore events and using them in your character build. Link to comment
K'nahli Posted September 2, 2013 Share #61 Posted September 2, 2013 Haha, I do that as well. I tend to have two versions of a story so I can follow the main storyline as if it were a parallel version to my RP version because I do fully enjoy it and don't want to intentionally numb myself to it just because my characters aren't heroes nor because they aren't supposed to be there or special for that matter. Apologies for asking, Wizard, but could you clarify to me what exactly your idea is then? Are you against having a global goal and situation because it excludes new RPers and suggest that those scenes should be interpreted some other way by us as individuals(but also in a way that won't collide)? I ask because I'd really like this idea and even if we don't adapt the in-game leadership concept then I still think we need OOC coordinators to maintain everything to make sure nothing falls out of line with previous RP or peoples' interests. Link to comment
Dravus Posted September 2, 2013 Share #62 Posted September 2, 2013 I've always had something of an allergy to authority in role-play. Many people will claim that it can be done tastefully but in every case someone is being screwed over. In many cases the role-players dictacting what is 'good etiquette' or 'fanon and canon' are pretty popular and excellent at PR. Yet they're also rather arrogant, spiteful and stuck in their ways - sometimes going so far as to encourage their zealous followers to drive a wedge between themselves and anyone who doesn't fawn over their perceived authority or character's supposed feats of strength and heroism. It's not just an issue with WoW, either. I've seen it happen in every MMO that I've role-played in to the point where the only authority my characters answer to is NPC's of my choosing. I'm certainly not paying to be seen as an extra in someone else's power fantasy nor would I expect anyone else to answer to my character. The exception being if people want to go down that route, of course - but they certainly shouldn't be expecting others to bow down in front of their guild leader or friends. Another major issue is that many popular players tend to take an increasing number of liberties with the canon lore simply because they can usually get away with it. It's notoriously difficult to convince a popular role-player to tone down their chosen concept or be a team player if they have dozens of loyal friends lurking in the shadows ready to white knight them regardless of what the damage they may be inflicting. Link to comment
Naunet Posted September 2, 2013 Share #63 Posted September 2, 2013 Another major issue is that many popular players tend to take an increasing number of liberties with the canon lore simply because they can usually get away with it. It's notoriously difficult to convince a popular role-player to tone down their chosen concept or be a team player if they have dozens of loyal friends lurking in the shadows ready to white knight them regardless of what the damage they may be inflicting. Heh, this reminds me of one of the "server princesses" on Ravenholdt back when I played WoW who roleplayed that she and her family owned the Sunwell. Hilarious! Twin and I even tried to play along with that, as our characters needed to break into the Sunwell at one point to do a Very Important Thing (our characters were undead, so good luck getting let in the front door hah). We asked her if she wanted to RP with us, and she just flat out said "Nope, I'd never let you in!" Oh well. That was some fun RP we had without her! Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted September 2, 2013 Share #64 Posted September 2, 2013 Apologies for asking, Wizard, but could you clarify to me what exactly your idea is then? Are you against having a global goal and situation because it excludes new RPers and suggest that those scenes should be interpreted some other way by us as individuals(but also in a way that won't collide)? Yes, that's exactly it. I think that individual players should make generic or exclude from their RPed storylines those things in the SE storyline that only one, or only a small group of characters can do. For example, taking down Nael was something that "some heroes did" and that you heard about -- not something that any PC did. If you wanted to do that content IC, you'd just say you were taking on some other ranking Garlean official who'd been Tempered. If in the storyline, your character is invited to a state dinner with the Admiral, either that doesn't happen or your character just received some honor from Limsa Lominsa for service as an adventurer, possibly at a dinner. In contrast, things that any PC can do or be (have the Echo, fight a Primal, be at Carteneau) can be RPed as they're presented by the game's story. With this approach, you don't need IC or OOC coordinators; players decide for themselves where the "bright line" is, and if someone goes too far? Well, you can just RP that they're crazy, accept it as true, or ignore it as you and your character see fit. The power lies in the hands of the players to decide to what they want to consent. The reason I'm opposed to deciding that some characters get to do some special things in the plot is that it's ultimately exclusionary to newer players, per the example I provided. It's also exclusionary to more introverted players, those who aren't well-liked in the community, and even those who simply aren't on these forums. I'm especially opposed to "community fanon" that drives the plot forward, as it impacts the ability of any player to play what they want, so long as it coincides with the lore established by SE. It also establishes that some characters are the "main characters," and others are merely extras in their story. I'm wildly opposed to any "community fanon" that established "player-run" areas, positions of power, "approved" interpretations of lore, and the like, because that establishes a hierarchy of power in the RP community and is exceedingly exclusionary to new players. Now, all that said, of course any group of players can do whatever they like. However, if a large enough group of people get behind the idea, they inevitably cause a schism in the RP community between those who accept the asserted OOC authority to establish who did what in the main scenario quest and those who state that no one has that power except for SE. These schisms are obscenely ugly and tend to rip communities apart. That's why I feel it's unwise to go down this road. IMO, those who want to do this should form their own FC or LS and keep their PC-driven interpretation of the story private; it shouldn't leak out into RP with others. Some very successful guilds have done this in the past, so it's not impossible. To turn this full circle, with regards to large-scale "server-wide" RP story arcs, the biggest problem those have is getting anyone to agree on them. We have FCs that can't even agree on the tone of the setting; getting them to agree on a story arc is probably nigh on impossible. The best approach, I think, is to offer a place where people can say, "You may have heard that this happened," and let others approach if they want to get involved or choose to take it IC, or not, as they see fit. I think the Tonberry's Lantern fits that bill exactly. Link to comment
Fulcrum Posted September 2, 2013 Share #65 Posted September 2, 2013 I'm still debating on how I want to relate Summoner IC. While Ifrit is taken down with common frequency, it didn't strike me that Titan was taken down all that often, and Garuda is definitely not a common summoning, given all the stuff the Ixal had to do first. I've considered the idea of someone with a strong Echo and connection to the elementals of the Twelveswood being able to summon elementals, and have them not be Egi...but that's not exactly along the lines of canon. In Kyma's case, his strongest IC elemental affinity is Water, followed by Wind, so I'd want to be able to use the Garuda-Egi IC somehow. I just don't see much of any other way to make it work, sort of claiming he fought Garuda; he's pretty young, so fighting the summoning prior to the current story one might not be viable either. Aside from that, I agree that if elements are selected and used tastefully, in a manner that makes things inclusive for other RPers and does not block them from using that lore in their story as well. Sometimes, doing an "exact opposite" from the storyline is fun too. Claire is going to have tried to join the Scions, but be utterly rejected from their ranks due to how focused on revenge she is; she discovers who they are, they learn who she is, and Thancred (since she met him a few times in 1.0 story) will tell her she can come back when she starts fighting for the "right reasons" - and she never does start fighting for the "right reasons", as she believes her reason is right already. Link to comment
Naunet Posted September 3, 2013 Share #66 Posted September 3, 2013 I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression that the things a summoner calls are... well, less than the actual primal. Couldn't you just be summoning a sliver of Ifrit et al? Link to comment
Fulcrum Posted September 3, 2013 Share #67 Posted September 3, 2013 I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression that the things a summoner calls are... well, less than the actual primal. Couldn't you just be summoning a sliver of Ifrit et al? They are slivers of the Primals but in order to even have one, you have to have defeated that Primal, according to the first Summoner quest. =( Link to comment
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