Terribly nervous to walkup - how to meet rpers?

[Azelle]

Lets not overreact please? Yes game hopping is often seen negatively exactly for the reasons mentioned already in this thread. It's hard to trust someone into a complex storyline that could span over many months when the player is knoen to hop to a new game 4 months after release. Relax, hopping is not you playing years in a game then years in another then another! It's staying few months only in a game and leaving for reasons your own. I tried many games on the side myself but really roleplayed seriously in EQ and EQ2 so those are the one worth mentioning. 

 

Hopping doesn't make you a bad players or role-player! But it *could* makes it harder to get involved in long stories. In the end of the day you decide how you present yourself!

 

My advice (they work for me anyway) for walk to RP already going on: listen to what the rp is about, wait at a proper moment to walk up and comment directly to them. Emoting doesn't work half the time. Are they preparing an expedition to explore the ruins of xyz? "Sorry to interrupt but I heard you are going up to xyz? I know the land pretty well 'round these parts, need a guide?"

And so on. If they are interested they will jump on the occasion to have someone participate! I found that direct approach to give results. You can also start up something and ask them if they are interested in exploring the ruins of xyz etc.

[YesGood]

Lets not overreact please? Yes game hopping is often seen negatively exactly for the reasons mentioned already in this thread. It's hard to trust someone into a complex storyline that could span over many months when the player is knoen to hop to a new game 4 months after release. Relax, hopping is not you playing years in a game then years in another then another! It's staying few months only in a game and leaving for reasons your own. I tried many games on the side myself but really roleplayed seriously in EQ and EQ2 so those are the one worth mentioning. 

 

Hopping doesn't make you a bad players or role-player! But it *could* makes it harder to get involved in long stories. In the end of the day you decide how you present yourself!

 

My advice (they work for me anyway) for walk to RP already going on: listen to what the rp is about, wait at a proper moment to walk up and comment directly to them. Emoting doesn't work half the time. Are they preparing an expedition to explore the ruins of xyz? "Sorry to interrupt but I heard you are going up to xyz? I know the land pretty well 'round these parts, need a guide?"

And so on. If they are interested they will jump on the occasion to have someone participate! I found that direct approach to give results. You can also start up something and ask them if they are interested in exploring the ruins of xyz etc.

 

 Honestly, it never occurred to me to think of people who'd played multiple MMOs this way, before. Interesting.

[Ildur]

My problem with stopping interactions with 'MMO Hoppers' isn't strictly speaking the stop of interactions. That's, arguably, a sensible thing to do for the reasons that have been mentioned already.

No, my problem with it is that some people seem to think there's a direct correlation and causation between the ammount of games played and MMO hopping. Or at least that was pretty much the interpretation I understood: that the time you spent on any game before moving on was meaningless as long as you have changed games at any point.

 

My point was that OTHER people see a huge list of games on your record and yes' date=' they DO assume.[/quote']

 

Except you said this on the MMO Hopping section:

 

Speaking for myself? If I see you have played a ton of MMOs or have a HUUUGE listing in your games list, I'm going to purposely limit my interactions with you to casual conversations only. No storylines at all. I know that sounds terrible, but you have to try to put yourselves in the shoes of the opposite party and understand how the hopping directly and negatively impacts us.

 

I'm sorry you consider the word 'rude' as a personal attack, but I do consider judging people only on circumstantial evidence as an impolite thing to do.

[FreelanceWizard]

Personally, I pay no mind to someone's MMO play history, since I feel that compelling RP can "capture" a player into an otherwise lackluster MMO (not saying XIV 2.x is lackluster, mind you ). I've played lots of MMOs serially, since I've been playing the genre basically since it was created. I would certainly hope no one would say, "That FreelanceWizard, he's played so many games that he has no hope of being a reliable RPer." No, I'd rather people shun me -- if they feel the need to do so -- because we have incompatible perspectives on RP. As an FC leader, what I care about is whether your character fits the concept and whether your style of RP fits with our charter. Where and how you've RPed in the past is somewhere close to the bottom of my list, in the "boy, that's interesting, maybe we crossed paths before" pile.

 

I'll pass on speculating about why the "big names" aren't around, other than to say I don't think it's as simple as evading "MMO hoppers." I will, however, say that there's lots of great RP groups around, lots of great RPers around, and you absolutely don't need to get a "big name" into your RP for it to be fun.

[LiadansWhisper]

For what it's worth, I thought Kylin's ideas of how to start RP were really helpful and spot-on.  Some of them I honestly hadn't thought of myself (being naturally shy).

 

Edited to Add: I know that some of what he said may have rubbed people the wrong way, but I really hope that the good advice that he gave will not be lost in all of this. :-\

[Kylin]

Except you said this on the MMO Hopping section:

Speaking for myself? If I see you have played a ton of MMOs or have a HUUUGE listing in your games list, I'm going to purposely limit my interactions with you to casual conversations only. No storylines at all. I know that sounds terrible, but you have to try to put yourselves in the shoes of the opposite party and understand how the hopping directly and negatively impacts us.

 

I'm sorry you consider the word 'rude' as a personal attack, but I do consider judging people only on circumstantial evidence as an impolite thing to do.

 

It is a personal attack. End of story. Had I seen it used on anyone else, I'd say the same thing. It's not welcome on these forums. Period.

 

In regards to my comments about "others," keep in mind I've been around for 3 years. I talk to a LOT of RPers, and I'm faaaar away from being alone in my thoughts. Would you have preferred I said nothing about the issue and let some people keep wondering why some RPers seem to purposely brush them off? You don't have to like the stance, but it does exist. And better to be aware of it so it can better be combated, yes?

[Roda]

How about, instead of making a fuss over an RPer's probability of leaving a game, we try to give them a solid reason to stay?

 

I know people who hop from game to game due to the fact that they can't find RP. If you ignore that person because they can't seem to stick to a game, well, you're not really helping now are you?

 

[Ok I just cut off a rant and just gonna auto-tl;dr it. NEITHER SIDE OF THE FENCE SHOULD STAY ROOTED TO THEIR COMFORT ZONE.  MEETING NEW PEOPLE IS COOL, BEING NEW PEOPLE IS COOL.  IF THINGS DON'T GO AS PLANNED, GOOD.  IT'S TWO KINDS OF CHARACTER BUILDING!]

Yelling isn't mad, yelling is SPIRITED!

[FreelanceWizard]

Would you have preferred I said nothing about the issue and let some people keep wondering why some RPers seem to purposely brush them off? You don't have to like the stance, but it does exist. And better to be aware of it so it can better be combated, yes?

 

At the risk of being inflammatory, let me ask: how could this possibly be combated? If a group of players says, "We don't want to RP with people who've played too many MMOs (in our opinion) because they're not reliable in RP," what can truly be done to dispel this point of view? It seems as if their minds are made up and their choice of who to RP with made -- otherwise they might be jumping into threads and RP with new players if they seem appropriate and high quality (to them), as opposed to waiting for the "MMO hoppers" to vanish.

 

Further, as Roda said, this seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If people leave a game because they can't find RP, and then the existing players in an MMO shun new players to the game because they might be "MMO hoppers," then are they not simply ensuring that people leave for possibly greener pastures? It's better, I think, to give people a reason to stay so that the RP "hooks" them in, even if they might not particularly like the game. I stayed with EQ1 and CoH long after the gameplay became stale because I was into the RP. Why not give others that opportunity?

[Kylin]

I told you how it could be combated in my first post...I swear nobody reads anything these days :lol:

[Naunet]

I told you how it could be combated in my first post...I swear nobody reads anything these days :lol:

 

You think expressing an opinion that it is rude to make certain assumptions about others is a personal attack, and yet you pull out snide, passive aggressive comments like this one that do nothing but belittle the opinions of those who don't agree with you? That is, it suffices to say, rude.

 

I find the idea that anyone should feel as though they need to censor their MMO history for fear of being excluded from the "RP club" absolutely ridiculous. You made some excellent suggestions to those shy regarding initiating roleplay, but those suggestions are rather tempered by the aggressively exclusive stance you've taken towards your fellow roleplayers. That's not to say they're bad suggestions, but it certainly lends a rather discouraging tone to your post. And quite honestly? It bothers me on a personal level that someone would actively exclude me simply because of previous games I've played. Not because they've interacted with me and have decided they don't like me OOCly. Not because they've interacted with me and have decided they don't like my roleplay style. Not because they have made any kind of informed decision, but simply because they saw me talk about games I have played in the past.

 

Of course, no one should feel as though they need to roleplay with any of these "big names" on the forum in order to actually get roleplay out of the game, but this kind of viewpoint is discouraging on a community level, to say the least.

[Lost River]

Okay, if you ever see Lost River, Lucinne Jandalaine, or Orella Blackthorne. Do -not- I repeat, do -not- be scared to walk up and RP. Just in Lost's take, be sure to be fluent in Lominsa pirate talk or bring a translator.

 

 

As for other things, a hub for RP would be good, but the best is to find an OOC Linkshell that is dedicated to bringing more people together for RP.

 

After all, you can have 8 Linkshells per character.

[YesGood]

I wrote a really long tangent.

 

'I am extremely disappointed'.

 

I am also in line with what Lost just said. If you'd like, you can bump into cynical Sio too, or if you have a character that's combat-oriented, a healer, or a spectator, at least I can offer The Grindstone. I will help you out however I can.

[Kylin]

Public warning removed, as the intended reader has already seen it and there's no need to drag it out in public.

 

Furthermore, I did not belittle anyone. Stating people aren't reading is not an insult, it's a simple observation. And it's very possible they skimmed the post and didn't read it.

 

On to the actual point though, I did not say anywhere anything about "censoring" MMO activity. The point of that advice is to advise people to focus on advertising the MMOs they were in that -mattered-. If you played one for a couple months, listing it is probably not a necessary thing to do, as other people do not know that you played it only briefly and do indeed assume. Yes, "people shouldn't assume." But they do. That's life. And perception is 9/10ths reality in many cases. If people perceive one as an 'MMO hopper,' even if they're not actually one, it's going to change how they react to that person to some degree. It's no different than real life. If someone perceives someone to be a certain way, it's going to change how they act around that person, even if their perception is way off base.

 

I don't know why the "big names" keep being brought up. I mentioned it for one purpose only: to illustrate that a lot of the people who were active on this site for a very long time aren't as active now due to the reasons I listed. I've spoken to some of them and they've pretty much admitted to this. No, you don't have to RP with "big names." That was not the point I was making. I was simply making it clear that there are other people who have this view about MMO hoppers. That's it.

 

You clearly do not like my advice in this particular arena. That is fine. As I originally stated, people could take it or leave it. You seem to want to leave it. That's your decision and I respect that. But arguing it endlessly isn't taking this thread anywhere, and is in fact making things much worse the longer the argument goes on. It's clear you don't like what I said, but what I said is reality. It is what it is. That's really all that can be further said on it.

[YesGood]

Public warning removed, as the intended reader has already seen it and there's no need to drag it out in public.

 

Furthermore, I did not belittle anyone. Stating people aren't reading is not an insult, it's a simple observation. And it's very possible they skimmed the post and didn't read it.

 

On to the actual point though, I did not say anywhere anything about "censoring" MMO activity. The point of that advice is to advise people to focus on advertising the MMOs they were in that -mattered-. If you played one for a couple months, listing it is probably not a necessary thing to do, as other people do not know that you played it only briefly and do indeed assume. Yes, "people shouldn't assume." But they do. That's life. And perception is 9/10ths reality in many cases. If people perceive one as an 'MMO hopper,' even if they're not actually one, it's going to change how they react to that person to some degree. It's no different than real life. If someone perceives someone to be a certain way, it's going to change how they act around that person, even if their perception is way off base.

 

I don't know why the "big names" keep being brought up. I mentioned it for one purpose only: to illustrate that a lot of the people who were active on this site for a very long time aren't as active now due to the reasons I listed. I've spoken to some of them and they've pretty much admitted to this. No, you don't have to RP with "big names." That was not the point I was making. I was simply making it clear that there are other people who have this view about MMO hoppers. Maybe they also have a lot of time to spread between other games, and they're good at managing that time and keeping up with everything. A lot of people are really good with that. That's it.

 

You clearly do not like my advice in this particular arena. That is fine. As I originally stated, people could take it or leave it. You seem to want to leave it. That's your decision and I respect that. But arguing it endlessly isn't taking this thread anywhere, and is in fact making things much worse the longer the argument goes on. It's clear you don't like what I said, but what I said is reality. It is what it is. That's really all that can be further said on it.

 

The most we can do, and what we should be doing, is stating if we do not agree with whosoever looks at OOC information such as a list of MMOs that someone has played and use that as our sole reason to avoid or limit our RP with them, we just don't agree.

 

I don't feel this way. It has no influence on how I perceive people, it didn't before and now that I know it exists, it still doesn't.

 

The community here might be enough to fulfill all those people who played other MMOs before looking for someplace to call home or maybe they played those many other games because they enjoyed the raiding and the mechanics and they're sick of being booted off a high pop server for this particular week or two.

 

There are plenty of other reasons. At least Kylin's was one more perspective.

 

P.S. I know this is a forum and I'm not a moderator or anyone of any importance, but if you (anyone) have a personal issue with what someone has said and it has any chance to put that person in a negative light in the eyes of another who might read this later, please, as someone who is genuinely concerned about the very shy people who STARTED this thread, take it to PMs or something.

 

And don't get yourself booted. You're valuable and you're good, and there are more people who might need your advice-- it outweighs a lot.

[FreelanceWizard]

I told you how it could be combated in my first post...I swear nobody reads anything these days :lol:

 

With respect, you didn't (and yes, I did read the whole post; I assume in good faith that you're not skimming my posts, please don't assume I'm skimming yours). You advised the targets of this -- let's be frank -- prejudice that they should elide parts of their gameplay history and misrepresent themselves to eliminate themselves as a target for that prejudice. That's not combating prejudice; that's becoming complicit in it to one's personal benefit. Yes, you're combating its effects on you, but you're not actually affecting the underlying misconception that's the source of the problem. While a player may certainly do whatever they wish, telling someone how to become part of the system isn't really telling people how to combat that system.

 

At any rate, I maintain that the opinion that "lots of MMOs played = flighty, poor RPer" is based on a flawed assumption, and I think that those who hold to it will ultimately find themselves marginalized in the vast sea of new players -- what I already predicted would happen and why I advocated (and continue to advocate) new players come to Balmung. The "big names" of the past will give way to the "big names" of the present and future, and if those who were once active here want to RP with new players, they'll need to make the next move and engage, putting aside their prejudices and misconceptions. The "big names" are now the minority.

 

To new players: there's lots of mentors, lots of new groups, and lots of RPers out there. You can safely choose not to engage with those who would prefer not to engage with you. My advice is rather different from Kylin's. My advice is to be open about who you are, what you've done, and how you like to RP, then be willing to take that first step and connect with a mentor, start a thread asking for people to RP with, apply to an LS or FC, or even just drop a tell to someone you think has an interesting character and set up a scene. While I agree with some of his perspective, I think the advice about play history is deeply flawed, and I would submit that you wouldn't want to RP with anyone who holds that stance anyway.

[Kylin]

I've removed the public warning from my post, as the intended party has already seen it and there's no need to drag that out into a public spectacle. Those who saw it, please refrain from dragging it back up.

 

Furthermore, I want to make something perfectly clear as it's becoming an issue on the forums as of late. Opinions are 100% fine. Everyone is welcome to disagree or have their own view. That's what a hub is all about after all. But seriously...everyone needs to start watching their tone and choosing words more constructively. I don't know what other MMO sites people are used to posting on. But these are not the beta/official forums and I will not tolerate blatant disrespect of ANYONE. Argue points, not people. Insulting someone personally for a different viewpoint will not be tolerated. And if it comes up, report the post immediately and we'll deal with it as necessary. Furthermore, people need to stop getting so defensive when people have a differing view from their own. That's been a problem for a very long time now and it's ridiculous.

 

I'll be bowing out of this thread for its own good right now, though if I see personal insults of any sort, they will be swiftly dealt with. Please focus on the content when arguing. And I implore people to read their own posts before spamming that reply button.

 

Thanks, and apologies to the OP for this thread getting to the place it did.

 

@Freelance: Yes, yes I did. I stated that in one paragraph in that section "My advice is: blah blah blah." I also stated at the start of the post to take the advice or leave it. Taking rest of conversation with you to PMs to get out of this thread~

[Kyatai]

I have to say, I'd honestly never considered the number of games I've played (or Beta tested) as a detriment to my RP credibility.

I... thought that it spoke to my overall experience as a gamer and my commitment to the genre.

Not all the games I've played, I've RPed in. In fact, the only one's I've seriously committed to RP in have been:

 

SWG- 3 years solid since launch, then off and on for the remainder til it poofed

EQ2- 2 years... left b/c my guild disbanded and decided to go straight PvE. No RP friends, no interest. Moved on.

Vanguard- Beta on for 2 years... created a guild, left because my friends did and, well, shit happened that made the game unplayable for me (OOC crept into IC and back again, thanks to the guild I merged mine with. I hate fekkin' drama llama shit. I really really do)

 

The rest? I RPed some, but the game pretty much let me down, so I quit. But in NONE did I just leave folks hanging RP wise. That's just not cool.

 

Hell, I'd still BE in SWG if it hadn't taken the tank and my friends hadn't left. I freakin' loved the RP and my character and my crew there. Loved it.

Which, ironically, is why I look to the vets here and understand where they're coming from with commitment and love of their Legacy toons. If I heard SOE was remaking SWG like SE did FFXIV- and I could have my character back and my friends would return... I'd be gone. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I -miss- my character like she was my best friend.. and I -hate- that her story didn't end as I liked.

 

Anyway... I admit it is disheartening to hear that some might judge me as wishy-washy as a RPer when... I take it so seriously. And any listing I did was not meant to do anything but show experience in different types of gaming.

 

I'll definitely keep that in mind from now on...

[Gideon Aryeh]

I told you how it could be combated in my first post...I swear nobody reads anything these days :lol:

 

With respect, you didn't (and yes, I did read the whole post; I assume in good faith that you're not skimming my posts, please don't assume I'm skimming yours). You advised the targets of this -- let's be frank -- prejudice that they should elide parts of their gameplay history and misrepresent themselves to eliminate themselves as a target for that prejudice. That's not combating prejudice; that's becoming complicit in it to one's personal benefit. Yes, you're combating its effects on you, but you're not actually affecting the underlying misconception that's the source of the problem. While a player may certainly do whatever they wish, telling someone how to become part of the system isn't really telling people how to combat that system.

 

At any rate, I maintain that the opinion that "lots of MMOs played = flighty, poor RPer" is based on a flawed assumption, and I think that those who hold to it will ultimately find themselves marginalized in the vast sea of new players -- what I already predicted would happen and why I advocated (and continue to advocate) new players come to Balmung. The "big names" of the past will give way to the "big names" of the present and future, and if those who were once active here want to RP with new players, they'll need to make the next move and engage, putting aside their prejudices and misconceptions. The "big names" are now the minority.

 

To new players: there's lots of mentors, lots of new groups, and lots of RPers out there. You can safely choose not to engage with those who would prefer not to engage with you. My advice is rather different from Kylin's. My advice is to be open about who you are, what you've done, and how you like to RP, then be willing to take that first step and connect with a mentor, start a thread asking for people to RP with, apply to an LS or FC, or even just drop a tell to someone you think has an interesting character and set up a scene. While I agree with some of his perspective, I think the advice about play history is deeply flawed, and I would submit that you wouldn't want to RP with anyone who holds that stance anyway.

 

Thank god you jumped in here. Seriously thank god. And honestly thank you all for the good advice you mentioned.

 

I will touch on one thing though mentioned

 

I filled the linkshells I managed by "walkers" Why? Because I send them a tell when I see them walking asking them if they are an rper. It takes no time to do this and worst case scenario the worst you will get is "no". A lot of times "walkers" who rp want to get noticed. Its why they are walking in the first place. I know its why I do it.

 

I've been playing and rping in mmos since the late nineties. So I think I'm a pretty good authority on what rpers do and don't do and the packed numbers on the ooc linkshells that I manage give credence to this.

 

Not to mention we have a booming rp community now on the server full of Redditers, 4channers and Blue garter folks and we have ALOT of them in our linkshells rping right along with us. So I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to community building. Especially in a place where the so called impossible is now possible.

 

Either way if anyone decides to come to Gilgamesh just send me a tell in game or send me a pm here if you are shy. I rp with everyone and anyone so feel free to bother me if you see my character walking around. I do it so you know you can approach me, I can also point you in the right direction for contacts and rp friends and the like. Coming into a new community is hard enough, but its my honest to god job to make sure that its a good and smooth transition for everyone who joins us so please please feel free to hit me up and ask anything that you want.

 

Besides experience beats everything, that's what my long list of rping in mmos got me and I wouldn't trade that in for anything. :thumbsup: