Defining RP

[Kit_Aster]

This is our second formal discussion. That means it will eventually be voted on and if passed, will be placed in our etiquette section on the main site under âWhat is roleplay?â. I was hoping someone else would start the next formal discussion before me but I think some people might have been confused on how it works. Weâll discuss it amongst each other for awhile and then a proposal (2-3 paragraphs in this case probably) will eventually be drafted, examined, and then voted on.

 

The RPCâs official definition for RP will need to be broad enough to include the casual roleplayers while still encompassing the hardcore. Here are some elements to examine in the discussions:

 

1. What constitutes RP? Is it our actions, behavior, or something else? On that same note, what -isnât- RP? Many of us have seen non-roleplayers label something as RP that most of us would disagree with (such as the people in FFXI who emoted silly stuff by the auction houses). Does simply emoting something random constitute real RP? Or is actual substance required?

 

2. How do we define âin characterâ (IC)? What is âout of characterâ (OOC)? When do the two intertwine and where is the line drawn? If necessary, there may be an entirely different section devoted to IC/OOC but at least a basic understanding is necessary for defining RP.

 

3. Whatâs the difference between hardcore, casual, and freelance RP? And even for the hardcore, is there a proper time and place to NOT RP?

 

4. How does oneâs environment and surroundings fit into RP?

 

That should get you guys started ^^. On that same note, I was thinking that we could also possibly create a checklist for new Rpers just starting out, though Iâm unsure whether we should include that in this discussion/vote or make it something separate completely.

 

As far as what I consider RP I'd say its showing evidence of attempting to separate RL from the events ingame. Through actions, and speech are the main two examples, behavior doesn't have to change from RL if you're playing a character that behaves like you would IRL. I do believe actual substance is required than just emotes, some creativity has to be involved.

As far as where to draw the line between IC and OOC I'd say during missions when info needs to be given on pt roles that's fine, and when things start to get close between two players and one's playin outside of their own gender it would probably be a good idea to let em know so one doesn't get too uncomfortable in a situation. While I would ask that it doesn't progress to a point where a situation like that would arise I understand it can happen. Generally however most of the LS doesn't have to know about yourself IRL in my opinion. The less they know, the more likely they are to treat you how they see you ingame, which is the essence of RP imo.

As far as the hardcore vs casual RPer I'd say its the amount of effort involved in making your character a believable aspect of the story, and lore as well as the time spent devoted to it. If you are always in character trying to make your character fit in perfectly I'd call that hardcore. As far as the casual RPer I'd say someone that tries to RP at events and through conversation in LS, but when seen by people outside of the RP LS they make themselves seem as if just another player, talking about RL and such.

Freelance RPers imo are ppl that have their own story but haven't found a group to call home yet, maybe they just haven't found a group that agrees w/ their storyor their way of RP.

 

As far as the environment and surroundings I'd say everything and everyone but ppl who aren't RPing help to fit into the RP in general, both player and linkshell.

[Kylin]

Here's a really quickly done rough draft based on responses here. Suggestions, modifications, and so on are welcome.

 

Based on the various responses, this is what Iâve come up with so far (some statements of which were copy/pasted here):

 

Definition:

 

Roleplay is defined as making a conscious and usually consistent effort to play the role of a particular character. This is done through oneâs language and behavior and also by separating oneâs out of character behavior with their in character behavior to some degree. Spontaneous just for fun emotes do not constitute as RP unless such emotes are consistent with what the character would actually do. Roleplay is in essence writing and acting a believable role in a particular setting, much like characters from a movie or television show.

 

When one is actively roleplaying, they are considered in character (IC). When talking about real life, game mechanics, and so on, one is considered out of character (OOC).

 

Classes of RP:

 

Roleplaying can be divided into two classes: casual and hardcore.

 

Casual: Casual roleplay involves less investment in a characterâs persona and background than hardcore roleplay. Casual Rpers tend to be more spontaneous and have more vague character outlines, sometimes changing their character radically on a whim. This school of RP tends to care a bit less about character relations with other characters and are often more concerned with roleplaying âon the sideâ while playing the game. In character interactions are usually limited in comparison to hardcore roleplaying.

 

Hardcore: Hardcore Rpers tend to be heavily invested in their characters, creating in depth personalities and backgrounds while keeping it relatively constant throughout the growth of a character. They will typically have a solid understanding of their character's traits and lifeline and will typically pay more attention to smaller details about their characters, such as their quirks and habits.

[Aveline]

That's a good first draft, but I'm wondering if we shouldn't include a middle ground between casual and hardcore. I think, looking at it from the perspective of someone new to RP, they might get the impression that you're either one or the other when in reality many fall somewhere in between.

[Eva]

Might even be better to leave the two definitions for hardcore/casual as you have them, and define it as a spectrum, since you can fall anywhere within the range, depending on how you RP, perhaps indicating that there is middle ground between these two extremities. I can make an illustration when I get home to help demonstrate this and/or examples may be provided.

[Eltharian]

That's a good first draft, but I'm wondering if we shouldn't include a middle ground between casual and hardcore. I think, looking at it from the perspective of someone new to RP, they might get the impression that you're either one or the other when in reality many fall somewhere in between.

 

Might even be better to leave the two definitions for hardcore/casual as you have them, and define it as a spectrum, since you can fall anywhere within the range, depending on how you RP, perhaps indicating that there is middle ground between these two extremities. I can make an illustration when I get home to help demonstrate this and/or examples may be provided.

 

I agree, it's not usually just one or the other, many RPers fall somewhere in the middle of the two.

[Smiling River]

Yes, I think we can all agree that it's more of spectrum.

[Kylin]

Maybe we should come up with another term to replace "hardcore." I think people are taking the casual/hardcore to the absolute extremes when they're actually not. For instance, I've always considered myself "hardcore" through all 5 years of RP in Vana'diel. I'll consider myself a hardcore RPer in Eorzea as well. Does that mean I RP 24/7? No. I basically just made whatever RP linkshell I was in my main shell, keeping it on at all times outside of dynamis/limbus. None of my characters were ever fully planned out either and sometimes I just added in character elements on the fly when I had to due to IC questions/interactions from others. Despite this, I still classified myself as "hardcore." I think that word may just come off as too derogatory to some for some reason.

[Kurenai]

:scratch: In depth player? Purist? Immersive player? Full-time player?

[Aveline]

I don't know about derogatory, but it seems like since this is an attempt for us to define roleplaying as it relates to our collective groups in FFXIV, we should have a comprehensive definition. This text is likely to be seen by many players who are new to roleplaying in MMOs, or who have heard of it or are curious.

 

If I was interested in trying something out--say a new hobby--and I went to a website for information and found reference to only two styles of participation: fluffy bunny or 24/7 immersion, I would be put off to say the least. While individually we might have different concepts of what it means to be hardcore, collectively we're putting together a general definition that gives interested players some idea of what this is all about. I think explaining 'casual' and 'hardcore' are important, but so is making it clear that those are by far not the only two ways in which the RP community interacts with each other.

[happybyday]

Maybe we should come up with another term to replace "hardcore."

 

I don't know if it's about replacing hardcore as a term. Maybe it's more or less about saying "The range of play goes anywhere from casual, to full-immersion, and anything or everything in between" ... perhaps even indicating examples of balances in between.

 

If I at least knew it was normal to strike a balance (assuming I had never played before), that might be more of a comfort and encouragement.

[Guest]

A scale from casual to full immersion definitely sounds best. I've found it's better to avoid a black-and-white mentality, and full immersion sounds more accurate than hardcore.

[Merri]

Personally, I don't even really see the point in "Tagging" a roleplayer as Casual, or Hardcore, as was mentioned above by a few people. Having a list of different "Levels" of roleplaying could be a deterrent in it's own right. I believe the best description would simply be to make note on the two opposite ends of the spectrum, while mentioning all of the grey area inbetween. Simply because any "level" could have it's own tweaks based on the person in question. Perhaps they wish to roleplay every day, but they don't really want to get too deep into character development. Or perhaps they only wish to roleplay once in a blue moon, but when they do, they want to do so on a very deep level. There's really quite a few factors to tie in to be able to really nail down all of the different aspects of roleplay.

 

Again, that's just how I see it. Personal opinion.

 

But if I were to give rough definition of "core" levels?...

 

 

 

Light Roleplayer: A player who may enjoy a form of "No-strings-attached" roleplay. Tends to be out of character more than they are in-character, and generally do not participate in in-depth character development and/or Roleplay.

 

Casual Roleplayer: A light mix between being out of character, and in-character. They enjoy their out of character activities, but still enjoy engaging in roleplay on a regular (or somewhat regular) basis. They may or may not participate in deep character development and/or plotting.

 

Moderate Roleplayer: This player tends to lean more towards their roleplay, than their out of character goals. They enjoy engaging in deep character development, and prefer only a light amount of out-of-character conduct.

 

Heavy Roleplayer: Full on immersion. This player enjoys staying in character almost 24/7. They may still engage in out-of-character activities, though it is by no means a priority. They enjoy deep character development and plotlines.

 

 

 

Again, any of those are really impossible to nail down. Pretty much any part of those can fit in any of the levels. For example, a roleplayer might enjoy being in-character almost 24/7, and still participate in end-game content. I just don't really see an easy way to nail down anything. Only give a rough example of what different levels most people tend to fall into.

[happybyday]

 

Light Roleplayer: A player who may enjoy a form of "No-strings-attached" roleplay. Tends to be out of character more than they are in-character, and generally do not participate in in-depth character development and/or Roleplay.

 

Casual Roleplayer: A light mix between being out of character, and in-character. They enjoy their out of character activities, but still enjoy engaging in roleplay on a regular (or somewhat regular) basis. They may or may not participate in deep character development and/or plotting.

 

Moderate Roleplayer: This player tends to lean more towards their roleplay, than their out of character goals. They enjoy engaging in deep character development, and prefer only a light amount of out-of-character conduct.

 

Heavy Roleplayer: Full on immersion. This player enjoys staying in character almost 24/7. They may still engage in out-of-character activities, though it is by no means a priority. They enjoy deep character development and plotlines.

 

Props on this, honestly. Very well done.

 

Myself, I'm still somewhere in between Casual and Moderate (I'd say I'm literally a 50/50 gal when it comes to role playing, though I may try to move more toward the 70/30 area in favor of RP), but these are very well defined on the spectrum and I think give a broader range of what's out there rather than simply leaving it at two extremes.

 

I think if we left it at something like this, and cited them as examples of what's out there on the spectrum of role play, that this would really be a great addition.

[Kylin]

Okay, how about this:

 

Definition:

 

Role-play is defined as making a conscious effort to act out the role of a particular character. This is done through oneâs language and behavior. A role-player also separates out of character behavior with their in character behavior to some degree. Spontaneous just for fun emotes do not constitute as RP unless such emotes are consistent with what the character would actually do. Role-play is basically writing and acting a believable role in a particular setting, much like characters from a movie or television show. Role-play is seeing the world through the eyes of your character rather than yourself.

 

When one is actively role-playing, they are considered in character (IC). When talking about real life, game mechanics, and so on, one is considered out of character (OOC).

 

Classes of RP:

 

Role-playing can be divided into four classes: light, casual, moderate, and heavy. These are by no means the full spectrum and many role-players fall somewhere in between certain categories.

 

Light Role-player: A player who may enjoy a form of "No-strings-attached" role-play. Tends to be out of character more than they are in-character, and generally do not participate in in-depth character development and/or Role-play. He/she may assume a spontaneous role with little planning.

 

Casual Role-player: A light mix between being out of character, and in-character. They enjoy their out of character activities, but still enjoy engaging in role-play on a semi-regular basis. They may or may not participate in deep character development and/or plotting.

 

Moderate Role-player: This player tends to lean more towards their role-play than their out of character goals. They enjoy engaging in deep character development and prefer only a light amount of out-of-character conduct. He/she typically has a good understanding of their characterâs traits, habits, and other details.

 

Heavy Role-player: Full on immersion. This player enjoys staying in character as often as possible. They may still engage in out-of-character activities, though it is by no means a priority. They enjoy deep character development and plotlines, having an intimidate understanding and connection to their character.

 

Freelance role-players, while not a "class" of RP, deserve mentioning as well. The term "freelance" refers to the role-players not affiliated with a particular RP group.

 

======================

 

Should freelance RPing be included anywhere or should we just leave that to be a common sense phrase? It's not exactly a "class" of RP like the above are and all it means is not being affiliated to any RP group.

 

I also want to remind you all that there is a guild classification system when it comes to determining what type of RP group a guild is. RP guilds under the RPC will be required to choose a classification for themselves. This is because people looking for a guild want to know above all else what type of RP guild it is before joining. This is a major factor to deciding whether a RPer joins a guild or not. Currently, the classification system can be viewed here: http://ff14-rp.webs.com/guilds.htm

 

Should that classification system remain as is or be adapted to fit the above categories instead?

 

I'm hoping this will be ready to go up for official vote in the next couple days.

[Merri]

As far as the definition / classes go, I think that's perfect.

 

On the subject of the guild classifications, though, perhaps if anything, just a simple re-wording would suffice. I tend to see "Hardcore" as a rather strong word. Where as Heavy implies the same thing, though in a less "agressive" (For lack of a better word) manner.

 

As far as Freelance RP is concerned, I believe it should at least be mentioned. So if anyone had the question of "If I want to Roleplay, do I have to join a guild?", they would at least have an answer right then and there.

[Nanapariri]

Freelance should be included so people know they don't have to be in a guild to join.

[Klare]

Yep I agree with Tsumi. Being a freelancer myself (with Klare at least for rp purposes) it be nice to know that us freelancers can still interact and rp with a guild even without being apart of it. Maybe we can make up a non-guildie type guild or hub out of game where all freelancers can hang out and swap idea's, info, or just talk.

Maybe even have both an IC page (A general bar for example) and an ooc page for both freelancers and guldies.

 

Then if say someone from a guild wanted to get in contact or rp with a freelancer person they can just find them on the fourms and

 

1) contact them to set up an rp in game or have a private rp outside of game.

2) invite whoever to an rp event.

3) roleplay and create character development between said characters.

4) can just chat.

 

Only problem I see to that is if there's going to be multiple servers (which more then likely there will be).

[Guest]

Well if I'm not mistaken, pretty much the whole point of this forum is to attract the majority of RPers to one server, so that we're not spread out all over the place like we were in FFXI. That is, if SE doesn't designate an official RP server.

[Smiling River]

Definition:

 

Role-play is defined as making a conscious effort to act out the role of a particular character. This is done through oneâs language and behavior. A role-player also separates out of character behavior with their in character behavior to some degree. Spontaneous just for fun emotes do not constitute as RP unless such emotes are consistent with what the character would actually do. Role-play is basically writing and acting a believable role in a particular setting, much like characters from a movie or television show.

 

I think you can also say something like: Role-Play is seeing the world through the eyes of your character rather than yourself.

 

It doesn't all have to be "dictionary" like, although the terms you have there are needed. Also I would suggest taking out what is NOT RP from the definition. I'd put it in it's own little section, or just mention it else where. If anything it can be rephrased to describe RP (rather than describe the negative; what is not RP). For example: Emotes are a big part of Role-Play and how your character interacts physically with other characters and the environment.

[Kylin]

Added a tiny mentioning of freelance RPers and added another sentence to the definition of RP.

 

I don't think it's a good idea making a separate section for what isn't RP. Then we might as well make a separate section for what isn't godmode or what isn't meta-gaming. I like how the emote phrase is worded personally since a lot of non-RPers have some preconceived notion that any and all emotes equate to RP. It'll help dissolve those beliefs.

 

Maybe we can make up a non-guildie type guild or hub out of game where all freelancers can hang out and swap idea's' date=' info, or just talk. Maybe even have both an IC page (A general bar for example) and an ooc page for both freelancers and guldies.[/quote']

 

As Laychield stated, this is kind of the entire purpose of this coalition . The RPC is for ALL RPers, including freelancers.

 

This topic doesn't seem to have a lot of interest overall anymore and I think most people just want to vote on it and move on at this point. So are we done with further suggestions or no?

[Smiling River]

I don't think it's a good idea making a separate section for what isn't RP. Then we might as well make a separate section for what isn't godmode or what isn't meta-gaming. I like how the emote phrase is worded personally since a lot of non-RPers have some preconceived notion that any and all emotes equate to RP. It'll help dissolve those beliefs.

 

I'm just saying, a definition of a word should be a "positive" definition (not sure what the proper word is) instead of describing what said word is not. For example a spoon is a small round object with a longer handle used for eating. A bad definition would be; a spoon has a handle but on the tip it is not a fork.

 

In this case it seems if the definition was longer, perhaps it could have a paragraph describing certain elements of gameplay which could be mistaken for RP, but since it's only a few sentences that part (IMO) seems a bit awkward.

 

Also I didn't mean have a separate discussion/vote (by mentioning "section") on what isn't RP, just a side note within this current version on common practices which may be mistaken for RP. I also think it is important, just as you did here with the definition of RP, to mention what isn't godmode or what isn't meta-gaming. Actually I'm surprised that you are giving a "negative" quality (what isn't RP) in the definition above yet from what I understand don't support the idea of providing the same scope to these other discussions. Creating a contrast between an RP session which uses godmode and the same situation which does not, as an example, will give the reader a clear idea of what godmode is and how it's misused practically. This along with the definition (IMO) gives a new RP'er a better understanding of any idea that we try to define.

 

If I am the only one who sees the current definition this way, I have no problem letting this go for a vote. I've explained my little critique, besides which I have no problems with it. If anything, the members who vote will have read this (hopefully) and can agree or disagree based on the way they vote. As it stands I am not even sure if it's a big enough problem for me to vote no because the rest of the definition is very sound.

[Eva]

I still like Webster's broad and all-encompassing definition. Setting down a hard-and-fast definition about what isn't roleplay is where things are more open to interpretation and I don't think it's really necessary for this little project. A carton of eggs isn't RP. My dish towel isn't RP. I fail to see the relevance. Maybe it's just late or I'm just confused, but I don't think the point is to pin down what we're not associating ourselves with.

[Smiling River]

I think Castiel is saying that the definition should state that certain emotes aren't RP. We agree that this is relevant info to bring up, however disagree on where it should be located. Stating RP isn't an emote such as "X punts Y" is more relevant than stating that RP isn't a carton of eggs.

[Verence]

I've been kind of avoiding this thread until now. Since opinions can vary so much, I thought throwing one more in would only further muddy things, and towards that end I'm still going to withhold my thoughts on the matter. However, I will say this: This thread has hit four pages now, and the debate's still going. I think in this situation, less is more. The more that is said, the more there is to disagree with and argue over shades of meaning.

 

Anyone who'd ask "What is RP?" is probably not an RPer and would likely be intimidated if they get clubbed over the head with the full array of subtle nuances and shades of grey first thing. All that stuff should probably go into a "How to RP" or "Types of RP/RPers" section. Think of your target audience: Someone who doesn't know what RP is and is curious enough to ask. Don't frighten them off with a textbook. Keep it general, keep it relevant, and keep it brief.

[Kylin]

I'm really not sure what else to do now. Right now, it just seems like a lot of tiny nit-picking over little things and as Verence said, it's only going to get worse as it keeps getting changed. Thus, I'll put up what I have to a vote starting tomorrow. If it doesn't pass, we can essentially just start the discussion over again based on the results.