Coil T1-2 Advice on Getting Started/Learning it

[allgivenover]

I'm all for opening up content to be doable by more people, but not at the expense of the serious/hardcore endgame players. There has to be some sort of challenge.

 

This has always been the plan, as stated by YoshiP himself several times. Once new content is out the old content is nerfed so that less hardcore people can get a shot at completing it. The new content then fills the most-challenging content void that remains.

 

I think the only content that will never see direct nerfs are Primal trials.

[Kage]

Thank you very much Celeste! When I did T1-3 I basically just followed my friends' directions without understanding what actually was happening in the fights. (I had no idea whatsoever what feeding the slimes meant just that a friend was doing it for example.)

 

(I got hit prettttty well by those golems >_> and the response was "Oh yeah that thing hurts.")

[Merri]

 

Once it hits about 75%, it kicks in the first ability, a gravity well. This ability isn't too bad. It will randomly targets a player and that person would get heavy + a DoT debuff as long as they are in the thing. It lasts about 20-30 seconds and there will be a little cool down before the next one goes up. The primary thing that this interferes with, though, is stepping out of it's laser attacks and the Allagan rot, which I will mention shortly.

 

At about 50% it has the most infamous attack, Allagan Rot. This is what it does: The player will have a debuff that does nothing but is instead a timer that counts down (iirc this is 15 seconds). If the person's timer drops to 0 a huge AoE explosion occurs and everyone dies. How a person gets rid of it is by physically getting close to another person. This "passes" the debuff from the first person to the next, resetting the timer (since it is a new application.) The player that passes the rot also gets a 60 second immunity debuff which means that they can't receive the rot again until those 60 seconds are up. This mean that when the next person's timer drops they need to move to another person to pass it again, resetting the timer and getting the immunity.

 

This basically makes this part of the fight a game of debuff hot potato.  Since there is a little time 5 players can pass this around safely -- usually three ranged dpses and the two healers.

 

At about 25%, the ADS learns a water crescent move that has an atypical shape in melee-mid-length range. People that get hit with it take a couple of thousand water damage and get knocked back. Mostly this thing is surprising when it first starts and is something to keep in mind thereafter. It works horrendously with rot and screw up the cycle rotation.

 

 

Just to clarify on a few things, rot actually comes at 75%. Gravity wells are at 50%, though his knock back is at 25%.

 

Rot also only lasts 15 seconds total, so if you were to wait 15 seconds you'd wipe the group. Generally, you want to be passing around 4-6 seconds. The immunity debuff only lasts for 40 seconds as well.

 

The fight really isn't as hard as people seem to make it out to be. Tanks just do their swapping. If ADS is tanked in a corner, all ranged DD can more or less outrange his knockback if spread out along the back walls, making that trivial. It's also incredibly easy to dodge as melee if you stack up on him, as there is a cone behind ADS that is a safe spot. Long as your group communicates, dealing with everything is really pretty straight forward.

 

Got a video here from a monk perspective for reference of where we tank him and how our group spreads out. :>

 

BylvSEPSuyE

[Aleister]

I can't tell if the bugfix or the 2.2 change is the AI randomizer "Gambit"

 

 

Its involving Gambit, don't know much from Yoshi's post but it involves the Gambit.

This could be a change intended for 2.2 but I really don't see why they was embed it in the 2.16 patch, seems dumb to me because of risks like we saw yesterday lol.

[Kage]

I ended up going along with my FC friends to T4. Oh was that a thing. They're currently still usually getting walled a little bit by it so while I did feel a bit bad by how much I (probably) am not contributing as BLM I didn't feel like a failure. Flare bombs in the beginning I can definitely do those!

 

Sometimes we DPS the first Dread right in time as the Rooks fall and quite a few times it didn't. I popped Thunder, Raging Strikes, Quelling on it asap.

 

For the 2nd Dread I was told as BLM to stay on that one and let one of our tanks kite the others as I stay on Dread, finish it as the other pops, and then help finish the tank kiting soldiers.

 

Is this what I should be doing or should I be doing something more? I don't have Virus (we had a WHM and other BLM popping it on Dread) but that's my next cross class in the works at lvl 4 when I'm not working on my paladin.

[Aleister]

I ended up going along with my FC friends to T4. Oh was that a thing. They're currently still usually getting walled a little bit by it so while I did feel a bit bad by how much I (probably) am not contributing as BLM I didn't feel like a failure. Flare bombs in the beginning I can definitely do those!

 

Sometimes we DPS the first Dread right in time as the Rooks fall and quite a few times it didn't. I popped Thunder, Raging Strikes, Quelling on it asap.

 

For the 2nd Dread I was told as BLM to stay on that one and let one of our tanks kite the others as I stay on Dread, finish it as the other pops, and then help finish the tank kiting soldiers.

 

Is this what I should be doing or should I be doing something more? I don't have Virus (we had a WHM and other BLM popping it on Dread) but that's my next cross class in the works at lvl 4 when I'm not working on my paladin.

Yeah that sounds about right for a BLM. I think my BLM does the same as well for second dread. There are a few methods of handling T4 effectively and that is one way. Virus is still nice to have in case for anything since you have 2 twos and what not.

[Kage]

All right thank you! I hope it's now just a matter of my gearing up so that I can actually be of use. 

 

The last few tries, I had issues where I was on 1st soldier going to the other or right as the first dread popped and.... thinking the soldier died (targeting was off) and then my tank saying "soldier's not dead yet"

 

It had been a wall of not getting the first dread down before Rook or getting smashed by the 2nd and 3rd Dreads.

[synaesthetic]

Is this what I should be doing or should I be doing something more?

 

Wave 1: 

Spam Fire II and Freeze on the bugs. Don't go crazy with Flare or you'll pull aggro.

 

Wave 2:

Kill soldiers one at a time with the other magic damage-dealer in the group. Don't touch the knights.

 

Wave 3: Burn cooldowns and open up on the dreadnought as soon as it eats the bugs. Make sure it dies ASAP, but don't pull aggro or you'll get a 3.5k cleave to the face.

 

Wave 4:

Burn down the rooks one at a time. Kill as many of the bugs as possible--don't AE them, just single-target one until it dies, then another until it dies. If you're quick and have good damage you can kill two or three of them.

 

Wave 5:

Use potions and any other available cooldowns and burn down the dreadnought. Once the DN reaches very low HP, watch your enmity list, but keep throwing fireballs at it until it dies.

 

Wave 6: Click the "new" (as in, the one that just spawned) Clockwork Soldier from the enmity list. Start spamming Scathe and Swiftcast Fire III to get it to chase you. Burn Sprint and kite it around. When the rook dies, pop Manawall and stop to kill it with your other mage. It'll hit you pretty hard so use Virus on it and burn it fast. Switch to the "old" soldier (the one that the OT started tanking/kiting in Wave 5) and kill it. Switch to the DN afterwards and start killing it. 

 

Once the melee finishes with the knights, everyone stacks on the DN's butt to make healing easier if Emergency Override starts spamming AE damage on the party.

[Naunet]

everyone stacks on the DN's butt

 

Mmm butt.

[allgivenover]

This isn't turn 1 or 2 related, but this is the best turn 5 video I'm aware of, useful to have when you eventually get there.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anq6_iVjUHo

[Kage]

Thank you for the strats! Annnd sorry this turned into HALP BLM IN COIL.

 

I know you suggest not to flare bomb because of the aggro, is Wave 2 on a timer or is it set to when you drop all the bugs? Because my group just told me to flare bomb it.

 

Also, for Wave 6 why would you kite it versus letting one of the tanks kite them?

[111]

Is this what I should be doing or should I be doing something more?

 

Wave 1: 

Spam Fire II and Freeze on the bugs. Don't go crazy with Flare or you'll pull aggro.

 

Wave 2:

Kill soldiers one at a time with the other magic damage-dealer in the group. Don't touch the knights.

 

Wave 3: Burn cooldowns and open up on the dreadnought as soon as it eats the bugs. Make sure it dies ASAP, but don't pull aggro or you'll get a 3.5k cleave to the face.

 

Wave 4:

Burn down the rooks one at a time. Kill as many of the bugs as possible--don't AE them, just single-target one until it dies, then another until it dies. If you're quick and have good damage you can kill two or three of them.

 

Wave 5:

Use potions and any other available cooldowns and burn down the dreadnought. Once the DN reaches very low HP, watch your enmity list, but keep throwing fireballs at it until it dies.

 

Wave 6: Click the "new" (as in, the one that just spawned) Clockwork Soldier from the enmity list. Start spamming Scathe and Swiftcast Fire III to get it to chase you. Burn Sprint and kite it around. When the rook dies, pop Manawall and stop to kill it with your other mage. It'll hit you pretty hard so use Virus on it and burn it fast. Switch to the "old" soldier (the one that the OT started tanking/kiting in Wave 5) and kill it. Switch to the DN afterwards and start killing it. 

 

Once the melee finishes with the knights, everyone stacks on the DN's butt to make healing easier if Emergency Override starts spamming AE damage on the party.

 

If this works for you, then it works, but it seems like a curious way to go about it. BLM's should not have to to worry about AOE thread in T4, on the off chance they crit too many aoes and pull the whole mass of mobs, the tank can cover them, and all is well.

 

As far as the kiting, having the BLM do it seems like a recipe for disaster, even with sprint, they pull you back towards them, and you'll only be about to do a fraction of your dps. A i80+ tank and healer can easily manage all four clockworks, and that way you would be losing DPS by having the best DPS class in the game running around kiting mobs.

[synaesthetic]

I pull aggro off i80 tanks without even trying. 

 

I do Wave 1 the way I do it because I want to save Quelling Strikes for the Wave 5 dreadnought.

 

Also the rest of your response shows that you're working purely with theory and not experience.

 

Additionally, BLM is not even close to the best single-target DPS in the game. We're behind MNK, DRG and SMN. My SMN is (slightly) lesser-geared than my BLM and has only 15 points into INT and yet they parse extremely closely.

[111]

I pull aggro off i80 tanks without even trying. 

 

I do Wave 1 the way I do it because I want to save Quelling Strikes for the Wave 5 dreadnought.

 

Also the rest of your response shows that you're working purely with theory and not experience.

 

Additionally, BLM is not even close to the best single-target DPS in the game. We're behind MNK, DRG and SMN. My SMN is (slightly) lesser-geared than my BLM and has only 15 points into INT and yet they parse extremely closely.

 

Ahh, just saying I have i90 PLD and do T4 every week. I never have DPS pull mobs off me. I think your strategy is a work around for a tank that has low threat output. Like I said, if it works for you it works for you, but it just seems a rather convoluted way to go around it. Good tanks in T4 should have no problem with threat, regardless of the amount of dps, and since most groups wipe because of a lack of DPS, telling a new BLM to worry about threat is questionable advice. BLM should be worrying about maximizing DPS, kill orders, and when to use cooldowns, it's the tank's job to worry about threat, not theirs. If you are a BLM and you pull threat, don't sweat it, I'll cover you.

 

Just because I don't think your T4 strategy is universally applicable for all BLMs in all groups, doen't mean I "am working purely with theory and not experience".

[Naunet]

As far as the kiting, having the BLM do it seems like a recipe for disaster, even with sprint, they pull you back towards them, and you'll only be about to do a fraction of your dps. A i80+ tank and healer can easily manage all four clockworks, and that way you would be losing DPS by having the best DPS class in the game running around kiting mobs.

 

Considering we down t4 every week well before the soft enrage aoe even begins, I think our strat is just fine! ^^;

[Kage]

I actually don't know what ilvl my FC's OT was but I popped all my CDs during the first DN. For first wave bugs I drew aggro but I figured it's not that bad considering we were all grouped for AOEs and healing anyway. Plus I was told to flare bomb and so did the other BLM until we told him to go DRG.

 

I did draw aggro on the wave 2 Soldier but I didn't pay attention to that and just let the OT do his thing while I worked on it. Should the two magic (if there are two) be separated?

 

What are the best potions to use to regain MP at this point?

 

My group seems to always be stuck at wave5-6 if anything. I know some have cleared it when PuGing and looking into other strats but I think they've only cleared T4 once as mostly a "static"

[Aleister]

I actually don't know what ilvl my FC's OT was but I popped all my CDs during the first DN. For first wave bugs I drew aggro but I figured it's not that bad considering we were all grouped for AOEs and healing anyway. Plus I was told to flare bomb and so did the other BLM until we told him to go DRG.

 

I did draw aggro on the wave 2 Soldier but I didn't pay attention to that and just let the OT do his thing while I worked on it. Should the two magic (if there are two) be separated?

No, never make them split off and dps seperate soldiers. You're gonna wanna focus the first one down that doesn't have the caster absorbing stoneskin on it and move on to the next one together. Never branch off and kill separate things on your own in T4, kill in the assigned order given for your group comp.

[Kage]

I actually don't know what ilvl my FC's OT was but I popped all my CDs during the first DN. For first wave bugs I drew aggro but I figured it's not that bad considering we were all grouped for AOEs and healing anyway. Plus I was told to flare bomb and so did the other BLM until we told him to go DRG.

 

I did draw aggro on the wave 2 Soldier but I didn't pay attention to that and just let the OT do his thing while I worked on it. Should the two magic (if there are two) be separated?

No, never make them split off and dps seperate soldiers. You're gonna wanna focus the first one down that doesn't have the caster absorbing stoneskin on it and move on to the next one together. Never branch off and kill separate things on your own in T4, kill in the assigned order given for your group comp.

 

That's the thing. The group essentially split us two BLM up onto both soldiers (me on the OT the other on the MT). I was told to go to the OT's soldier.

[Aleister]

I pull aggro off i80 tanks without even trying. 

 

I do Wave 1 the way I do it because I want to save Quelling Strikes for the Wave 5 dreadnought.

 

Also the rest of your response shows that you're working purely with theory and not experience.

 

Additionally, BLM is not even close to the best single-target DPS in the game. We're behind MNK, DRG and SMN. My SMN is (slightly) lesser-geared than my BLM and has only 15 points into INT and yet they parse extremely closely.

 

Ahh, just saying I have i90 PLD and do T4 every week. I never have DPS pull mobs off me. I think your strategy is a work around for a tank that has low threat output. Like I said, if it works for you it works for you, but it just seems a rather convoluted way to go around it. Good tanks in T4 should have no problem with threat, regardless of the amount of dps, and since most groups wipe because of a lack of DPS, telling a new BLM to worry about threat is questionable advice. BLM should be worrying about maximizing DPS, kill orders, and when to use cooldowns, it's the tank's job to worry about threat, not theirs. If you are a BLM and you pull threat, don't sweat it, I'll cover you.

 

Just because I don't think your T4 strategy is universally applicable for all BLMs in all groups, doen't mean I "am working purely with theory and not experience".

Its also skill input, when I pugged coil for a bit I even saw i90 tanks losing hate to dps.. gotta factor that in as well. I tell my dps to never hold back in T4 because its a race lol but it does seem like you're workin around the tank though Aeri.

[Aleister]

I actually don't know what ilvl my FC's OT was but I popped all my CDs during the first DN. For first wave bugs I drew aggro but I figured it's not that bad considering we were all grouped for AOEs and healing anyway. Plus I was told to flare bomb and so did the other BLM until we told him to go DRG.

 

I did draw aggro on the wave 2 Soldier but I didn't pay attention to that and just let the OT do his thing while I worked on it. Should the two magic (if there are two) be separated?

No, never make them split off and dps seperate soldiers. You're gonna wanna focus the first one down that doesn't have the caster absorbing stoneskin on it and move on to the next one together. Never branch off and kill separate things on your own in T4, kill in the assigned order given for your group comp.

 

That's the thing. The group essentially split us two BLM up onto both soldiers (me on the OT the other on the MT). I was told to go to the OT's soldier.

How is that working out? Not trying to sound rude, I am just curious because I see that as a no no. It would just take longer to kill the the adds which is something you don't want. Bigger no no if the melee are doing the same and then helping you guys with it cause of the melee stonekin they have.

[Kage]

How is that working out? Not trying to sound rude, I am just curious because I see that as a no no. It would just take longer to kill the the adds which is something you don't want. Bigger no no if the melee are doing the same and then helping you guys with it cause of the melee stonekin they have.

It isn't working out well at all. I don't know what the best order for them is either. They don't regularly clear T4 and apparently they usually get walled at phase 5 too.

 

I think they usually have 2 PLD, 2WHM, 1 BRD, 1 MNK, 1 SMN, 1DRG/BLM

 

Switch up depending on turn but I think that's their 4 setup.

 

I was just sorta pugging it with them since a few in the static were gone and I guess they decided to let me join

[Aleister]

How it is suppose for phase 2 is that casters kill the Main Tank Soldiers and melee kill Knight on the MT once those are dead they switch over to the Off Tank's adds and kill the exact same ones they were killing on the MT's side. Now if you only have 1 caster dps have the melee help kill the Soldier. How they are doing it would just increase the duration of the fight and not promise you'll live through Phase 6.

 

They should really stick to the methods that have proven to work instead. So they aren't stressing over doing it in a method that is unneed

[Kage]

I honestly don't know if they haven't tried it before or if they just haven't checked it out. But they had 2-3 dps on the MT while they said I whale away on the OT. Some of those who PUG and clear T4-T5 mentioned it was possible that they weren't doing it in order (but not when most of the static was around).

[synaesthetic]

The way my group does Wave 2:

 

Put your two magic damage folks on the MT's Clockwork Soldier. Put your two physical damage folks on the OT's Knight. Swap when they die. This way, the tank can focus threat generation on one mob and only have to worry about healing threat on the other two which is pretty mild at this point.

[Kage]

Thanks for your input!

 

I feel like a lot of groups have a good way to do things, having already had a set group composition and strategy worked out.

 

At this moment I seem to be in a follow the PuG strat and hope it works out.

 

Case: Last Saturday we did T4 with 2 PLD, 1 MNK, 2 WHM, 2 BLM (or 1BLM+DRG), and 1 BRD. Perhaps it was my DPS being lower, but we had a lot of roadblocks in Wave 3 getting the Dread before the Rooks.

 

2nd Case: When I did it this with week 2 PLD, 1 MNK, 1 BRD, (either 2 SCH or mix of 1 WHM+SCH I forgot), 1 SMN, 1 BLM....

 

In the first case I didn't have zenith and focused on the OT's Soldier. In the second I did have zenith and focused on MT's soldier before switching to OT's and we didn't have issues taking them down before the Dread came in.

 

Everyone tells me I'm doing fine as BLM but I always feel bad (at myself) because we're not doing well. I've heard T4 is a DPS check and as DPS it gives me anxiety when we wipe... I swear it must be raised as one of those must over-achieve Chinese daughters thing.

 

I want to thank everyone for your help!