Role Playing feelings and Real Life feelings.

[Eva]

I don't really want to "drag this out" any further.  I've been kind of lurking and passively following along, as I do with the more interesting topics.  I also didn't mean to imply in my earlier post that a player experiencing the emotions of his or her character was inherantly wrong.  Instead, most characters are like most people, their emotions and attitudes stemming from two places: their proactive chosen nature, and their reactive-to-others.  This will of course vary from character to character depending on how much others' opinion of the individual matters to him or her.  The degree to which a player chooses to "get into the skin" of his/her character is entirely up to him, and as evidenced by the spectrum of responses in this thread, there really is no wrong answer.  It is entirely a matter of preference, just like style of RP, etc.  And this is why there are subdivisions in the greater RP community and we're not just all one big FC/LS - and that's a good thing, just as I think it's a good thing that most of us can come together here to talk about these differences and have a discussion like this.

 

Since we are expressing opinions, I do feel compelled to share a bit of my own with regard to style of RP, past experiences, etc.

 

From past experience with RP, I had been involved with a lot of [what some might call] "over-the-top" RP events.  I try not to judge too much, but I have my own style preferences, just as everyone else does.  As such, Eva was meant to be a more neutral character.  I used to jibe with friends that I hoped she might win the "best supporting actress" award for RP, since she is a somewhat vanilla character.  This isn't to say she has certain qualities that make her different.  But she's generally a normal character thrust into this world where all this crazy stuff happens, and she's left to deal with it in her own way (which generally amounts to ample doses of tea and common sense).  I think there is some embellishment on what she's endured and how she's coped with things as compared with how a modern day "average Jane" might deal with similar-type situations.  But I also don't think she's the sort that has a new adventure every week, etc.  She has what I would consider appropriate reactions and aversions to violence, etc.  And where I appreciate this may be boring to some other RPers who come here for the "larger than life" element, that's their preference, and this is mine and I sometimes question how these characters don't exhibit signs of post traumatic stress.  Instead there's a lot of that "all right, tavern time!"  And I don't think that's incorrect either - don't get me wrong!!  I think that's some RPers' preference.  For myself, I think I like the "middle of the road" approach, where there is action and adventure, but it's spaced out enough that it's not just one thing cascading into the next in a non-stop bombardment of activity.  I think a lot of wonderful RP happens in "the spaces between" where there's a lot of character growth.  I'm one of those RPers who loves just sitting around and drinking tea and gabbing with other RPers.  But I also love the occasional adventure.  I can't say that Eva's been through a ton of stuff, but over the span of 2-3ish years she's had her fill of adventure, growth, heartache, etc. - albeit somewhat spaced out.  And that's my own preference, and there's nothing wrong with that, just as there's nothing wrong with any of the other preferences expressed here.

 

The important thing for most of us I think is that we can still come together at this same table and RP as we do at the end of the day in spite of these differences, or in those cases where we can't, we can meet here and talk about it at the very least, and I think that's what's really awesome.  I got kind of longwinded again...  :blush:   :love:

[Zhavi]

Definitely violent justice.  Not only that, but I suppose most people don't have the research put into criminal activity, gang culture, and organized crime that I do.  One of my favorite things to do in RP is to bring that up and run with it.

 

Take, for example, justice.  Just about all criminal organizations, from your local slicer-dicer gang to La Familia have a strict code of silence.  You don't go to the police ever, not just on behalf of a victim but on behalf of yourself.  If someone breaks into your house, you don't call the police.  If someone shoots your best friend, you don't call the police.  You get justice yourself, blood for blood.  That's not something, I hope, anyone here has experienced or really understood.  It's not just that your angry and want revenge, it's literally an honor-bound code for vengeance and violence that you have no choice but to participate in.

 

Ah, if only I could just move that character over.  Love playing him.  If only Final Fantasy had room for that sort of brutality, but even I feel like that would be a stretch.  I'll have to get back into WoW a bit now that my internet is working.

 

Yeah, I honestly used to be a lot looser about research and stuff -- and then I started rping with this sarcastic mofo with a need for things to make sense. Every idea went through the grinder of his mind, with such questions as "How does that even work?", "Does that really make sense?" , "Why would they do that?", and one of my favorites, "Are we doing that? We're not doing that." (loosely paraphrased) He's bossy and brutally honest, but I really do feel like my writing has improved by going along with him. . .even when he shreds my ego into pieces. Still have a tendency to propose off the wall ideas to him that he takes all of .03 seconds to shoot down, but I've really learned quite a bit, and I feel like hte resulting rp feels fuller, I guess? I get more fulfillment out of it. And now I also do more research! Spent a few weeks researching the origination of the mafia for one rp, and Spanish court systems in the 15th-16th centuries for another. Still doing a lot of research into medieval trade (particularly around the mediterranean, because hte mediterranean is love) -- there is a lot of really, really cool stuff.

 

Sounds like you've still got more time into it then I do, but hey, if you've got any fabulous links to stuff please do share.

 

And, well, if you have ideas about brutal criminal stuff for Final Fantasy and don't mind forum rp, I'd be totally down.

 

Because it's a style of acting. Some actors don't get into character to the extent of others. ...

 

I prefer the Hoffman approach because I feel I can be more authentic. That's all.

 

(sometimes I even have a sense of unholy glee when putting my characters through awkward/embarrassing situations. heh heh heh)

 

It should be known I love putting my characters through a lot. I believe in character growth through adversity. Armi has been stabbed by the enemy (4 times since the games launch), shot, kidnapped, almost killed my her friend, possessed by a voidsent, had limbs broken, been beat up, fought Garleans regularly, lost to Garleans reguarly, killed people in war, etc etc. I enjoy that kind of RP as well. I enjoy, also putting my character through those situations.

with that as well. It's not just "This happened, oh well time to go to a bar."

 

Character growth through adversity! Yes!! Perfect way of putting it.

 

As for the former, I misspoke a bit, I think. While I am not the type to enjoy method acting, my point was more that it's not necessary for me to employ it, but I still have fulfilling and enjoyable rp without it. What I was trying to clear up is that it is still possible to have good rp without feeling exactly what your character is feeling -- even if it doesn't work for one person, it can still work for the other and vice versa (though, I still have my bias and that won't go away any time soon -- I was traumatized by the earliest rp I was in, haha).

 

I feel like this thread exemplifies why whenever someone states an opinion there's always that [for me, my belief, my opinion] that's usually just left unsaid but is meant and implied. As stated before, not everyone needs to be a method actor. For some, they feel that that is the best way for them to experience everything. Obviously not everyone believes that or feels that it's necessary.

 

We just have a lot more method actors in here ;3

 

Other than that... I really can't say much more on that topic for now other than echo what ArmachiA has said.

 

 

Yeah, I do expect that everything people say is their opinion and they're not stating it as the end all be all of truth, but when I read something as "I don't see how that could ever be fun" my immediate response -- if it's fun for me -- is to try to explain how it's fun for me. Likewise if I say something along the lines of "I don't see how (whatever)" I'd hope that if someone has a different way of looking at things they'd speak up. I like getting a peek inside how other people's minds work. Even if, at the end of the day, I'm still like "I don't get it, I could never feel that way" at the very least I've learned something new about someone else/the way others think, and that sort of thing is invaluable to me.

[ArmachiA]

She has what I would consider appropriate reactions and aversions to violence, etc. And where I appreciate this may be boring to some other RPers who come here for the "larger than life" element, that's their preference, and this is mine and I sometimes question how these characters don't exhibit signs of post traumatic stress.

 

I think Armi has some form of PTSD, mostly from her time at Carteneau and being skipped ahead, and the long winded stories of the last 7 months have certainly had an effect on her. I'm not going to say not much has happened to her, if you look at her journal it's already 8 pages long, but it didn't feel too whirlwindy - though sometimes it was one thing right after another and she was very overwhelmed.

 

Over all though, Armi is actually a very lighthearted, fun loving character. She's sweet and (unintentionally) funny, generally happy, and mostly normal. Her idea of getting to know someone is to make them tea. She writes song, collects ugly lamps and was just a farm girl turned priestess. She isn't extraordinary, she just gets thrust into extraordinary situations, which I tend to prefer.

 

I think there needs to be a balance, honestly. If too much BIG stuff happens it just gets exhausting and you need the small conversations with other people to develop relationships and really get to know your character. In all honestly, I think building those relationship through just having tea or going to a bar is EXTREMELY important. Because if something happens to your character or to the character you've been spending time with it has MUCH more impact.

[K'nahli]

This thread is full of people referencing melodrama and other people mistaking them as referencing emotions in general, and vice-versa. Can we please stop doing that?

 

inb4 someone mistakenly reads this in a negative or disapproving tone of voice and the thread continues to devolve in a series of misunderstandings before hitting rock-bottom at full-blown drama. There, now I've reverse-jinxed it, and it stands no chance of happening.

 

Hahaha, yes! Every time I saw a post about people claiming there was too much negativity or implying that people were being too aggressive or pushy... I was left scratching my head. Just because someone disagrees or challenges another person's idea in an effort to understand them better doesn't mean you are criticizing or mocking them.

 

In any case, someone else mentioned something along the lines of "I don't need to have experienced a broken leg to RP it", well unless I am mistaken I don't think anyone said that. Empathizing with a character doesn't mean you have to 100% understand their feelings on the matter, just make a genuine effort towards it. Most of my characters' situations are likely ones that I have ever gone through myself, same thing applies to their complicated emotions. If you don't try to understand how your character would REALLY think and act when certain things happen to them, then he/she is just going to turn out a little random and not remain consistent at all, right?

[Eva]

My stuff.

Armi's stuff

Oh I wasn't disagreeing.  One of these days I'm sure Eva will bump into Armi.  Ever since you first joined the RPC (in the old pre-1.0 days) I always thought that she sounded like a character that was very similar to Eva and more than once I've pondered what manner of things the two would talk about if given the opportunity (because it sometimes seems like they might share a brain, except for the Nymeia angle).  Maybe one day we'll find out!

 

While Eva was at Carteneau and experienced all that and was sufficiently shell-shocked when reappearing, there's been time since then and those events served as motivating factors.  Things certainly do happen, and sometimes it feels like a whirlwind.  This can be even more apparent when reading back through journal entries.  In real time, it seems like something fairly ground-breaking happens that directly impacts her every 6-12 months, and the rest of the time is where she is more heavily focused on others' story arcs and what I would consider more "reactive" RP.  Not to diminish the value of being involved with others' story arcs - one of such arcs which was probably intended to be something fairly minor in the greater scope of that arc wound up being a super-profound thing for Eva(thanks Kylin!) - and it's always awesome when the unintentional stuff like that happens "by accident"

 

I'm starting to derail a bit, so I will come back around full-circle and point out that there is one underlying element to Eva's backstory that was sort of set in place before RP even began way back before we ever even first logged into 1.0 alpha, and that is the death of her then-fiancé which was something that happened a year before the game's initial launch.  There are times when she recalls this NPC character and talks about him that I find myself identifying with her and empathizing and to some degree feeling that same sadness.  We've fleshed out that aspect of her story and the seven years they spent together before he died and described a number of events they were involved with, so in a way it's like he's become something real and substantial, and those feelings associated with him, and the character and her loss is something that hits me right in the feels sometimes.  And I do think being able to get into character like that and feel that degree of empathy makes RP where she's talking about him or recalling some memory that much more... profound?  It's hard to describe and I don't think it's necessary by any means to get so in-depth in order to play a role, but it's just one of those specifics that seemed worth mentioning.

[Ignacius]

Definitely violent justice.  Not only that, but I suppose most people don't have the research put into criminal activity, gang culture, and organized crime that I do.  One of my favorite things to do in RP is to bring that up and run with it.

 

Take, for example, justice.  Just about all criminal organizations, from your local slicer-dicer gang to La Familia have a strict code of silence.  You don't go to the police ever, not just on behalf of a victim but on behalf of yourself.  If someone breaks into your house, you don't call the police.  If someone shoots your best friend, you don't call the police.  You get justice yourself, blood for blood.  That's not something, I hope, anyone here has experienced or really understood.  It's not just that your angry and want revenge, it's literally an honor-bound code for vengeance and violence that you have no choice but to participate in.

 

Ah, if only I could just move that character over.  Love playing him.  If only Final Fantasy had room for that sort of brutality, but even I feel like that would be a stretch.  I'll have to get back into WoW a bit now that my internet is working.

 

Yeah, I honestly used to be a lot looser about research and stuff -- and then I started rping with this sarcastic mofo with a need for things to make sense.  Every idea went through the grinder of his mind, with such questions as "How does that even work?",  "Does that really make sense?" , "Why would they do that?", and one of my favorites, "Are we doing that?  We're not doing that."  (loosely paraphrased) He's bossy and brutally honest, but I really do feel like my writing has improved by going along with him. . .even when he shreds my ego into pieces.  Still have a tendency to propose off the wall ideas to him that he takes all of .03 seconds to shoot down, but I've really learned quite a bit, and I feel like hte resulting rp feels fuller, I guess?  I get more fulfillment out of it.  And now I also do more research!  Spent a few weeks researching the origination of the mafia for one rp, and Spanish court systems in the 15th-16th centuries for another.  Still doing a lot of research into medieval trade (particularly around the mediterranean, because hte mediterranean is love) -- there is a lot of really, really cool stuff.

 

Sounds like you've still got more time into it then I do, but hey, if you've got any fabulous links to stuff please do share.

 

And, well, if you have ideas about brutal criminal stuff for Final Fantasy and don't mind forum rp, I'd be totally down.  

 

Actually, I'd say to check out a few television shows to get you into the mindset.  HBO has run a few, especially series about prisons.  Gangland is sort of my favorite series.  It's annoying to watch sometimes on DVD because they have a tendency to catch people up, so you'll have a lot of stuff repeated between slots for commercial breaks.  But they're very thorough on giving you a historical breakdown on how gangs form and dissolve.  Netflix is your best friend, as you can catch up on a lot of more in-depth history through National Geographic.  They have a lot not just on large syndicates, but also biker gangs, narcotics rings, and street gangs.  It's really the street gang stuff that gets you into the mindset.  Especially when you get interviews with active gang members and they talk about the sense of disenfranchisement in greater society versus acceptance in criminal culture.  It's very similar to ancient tribalism.

 

As to the second part, that's a lot like what architecture school and practice is like.  Essentially, I've been doing that for some eleven years, so I totally get what you'd find helpful about it.  It's a great way to learn in a hurry.

 

As to the third part, I've no problem with forum RP.  Wouldn't mind it at all, though I might have some delays finding time.  I might restart RP in WoW because I've been thinking about my favorite character in WoW to RP as.  Kind of looking forward to going grimy.

[Zhavi]

Actually, I'd say to check out a few television shows to get you into the mindset.  HBO has run a few, especially series about prisons.  Gangland is sort of my favorite series.  It's annoying to watch sometimes on DVD because they have a tendency to catch people up, so you'll have a lot of stuff repeated between slots for commercial breaks.  But they're very thorough on giving you a historical breakdown on how gangs form and dissolve.  Netflix is your best friend, as you can catch up on a lot of more in-depth history through National Geographic.  They have a lot not just on large syndicates, but also biker gangs, narcotics rings, and street gangs.  It's really the street gang stuff that gets you into the mindset.  Especially when you get interviews with active gang members and they talk about the sense of disenfranchisement in greater society versus acceptance in criminal culture.  It's very similar to ancient tribalism.

 

Documentaries! Good idea. I will most definitely be checking out Gangland, thanks for the tip! Also netflix, watching stuff at work makes tedious stuff go by so much faster.

[Kimikimi]

I have a question. Why is this topic so popular?

[Ignacius]

I have a question. Why is this topic so popular?

 

Discussion of RP methodology and personal preferences aside, I think all of us who have been doing this for any length of time have had people bleed OOC into IC or vice versa with disastrous results.  I know I personally did it once when I was fifteen, and I nearly blew up a forum RP.  Luckily, I had people around who were understanding and explained the difference.

 

Some people either aren't lucky enough to have those people around or are too ignorant to listen to them, and we end up with people suddenly disliking all the characters of a player who's character screwed someone else's over.  Or the worst is the romantic RP that totally crosses the line and isn't reciprocated IRL.  That's sort of the RP horror story, the "girlfriend" that isn't a girlfriend that just won't go away, IC or OOC.  I could relate some of those horror stories if no one else here feels like it.

 

Suffice it to say, bleeders are land mines in the RP world, people that seem like normal roleplayers until something happens and they destroy everything around them.  If there's one thing to take away from this thread, you can empathize with your character, as that's a methodology choice.  Eventually, though, you empathize too closely, so it's important to know not to do that and make that character's life your own life.  Bad and good things happen to characters that are NOT happening to you personally; it's all RP.  If it bleeds one way or the other, we all have a problem.

[Agarthane]

I have a question. Why is this topic so popular?

 

Discussion of RP methodology and personal preferences aside, I think all of us who have been doing this for any length of time have had people bleed OOC into IC or vice versa with disastrous results.  I know I personally did it once when I was fifteen, and I nearly blew up a forum RP.  Luckily, I had people around who were understanding and explained the difference.

 

Some people either aren't lucky enough to have those people around or are too ignorant to listen to them, and we end up with people suddenly disliking all the characters of a player who's character screwed someone else's over.  Or the worst is the romantic RP that totally crosses the line and isn't reciprocated IRL.  That's sort of the RP horror story, the "girlfriend" that isn't a girlfriend that just won't go away, IC or OOC.  I could relate some of those horror stories if no one else here feels like it.

 

Suffice it to say, bleeders are land mines in the RP world, people that seem like normal roleplayers until something happens and they destroy everything around them.  If there's one thing to take away from this thread, you can empathize with your character, as that's a methodology choice.  Eventually, though, you empathize too closely, so it's important to know not to do that and make that character's life your own life.  Bad and good things happen to characters that are NOT happening to you personally; it's all RP.  If it bleeds one way or the other, we all have a problem.

 

 

This is an excellent post. I would only like to add that the issue of Bleeding can easily become much, much worse if it's not checked.

 

Speaking from my own experience in many RP communities, including table-top groups, message board and in-game communities I have personally seen the following happen because of this issue. Some examples are extreme, but I want to emphasize just how bad it can really get.

 

Entire, long running role-play communities derailed, divided or completely destroyed.

 

RP forums that devolved into flame wars so vile that people were actually looking up real-life details about fellow players to use against them.

 

I've seen IC relationships misinterpreted and escalate to the level of full on stalking, complete with the authorities having to get involved. In one of the worst instances, someone attempted to wreck someone else's *real life* relationship because their characters had broken up in-game.

 

I've watched people who were friends, in real life, become enemies and remain so years later.

 

I've witnessed players spiral into depression ranging from mild to severe over IC related events.

 

Lastly, I got to experience someone I had known and played with for years go into such a dark place that she ended up posting her suicide note on a forum message board.

 

The bleeding of IC and OOC is the very bane of any RP community. At the very least it leads to drama, damaged story lines and hurt feelings. At its worse... See above.

[Faye]

Hello! I doubt I have anything new to add to the conversation, but... oh well, I wanted to throw in my two cents. First of all, it's relatively normal to feel what your character does! For most of us it's typical to watch a tragedy and feel sad, to watch a romance and feel warm and fuzzy, to watch a comedy and feel goofy, etc. And with it being RP, we become even more involved! Our characters are our babies, our creations. We get attached to them--because that is our very job as role-players, to create another person who feels three-dimensional and believable, and to write out that person's thoughts, actions, and feelings.

 

However, blurring IC and OOC causes a cornucopia of problems that I'm not even going to try to describe because I could write a novel about it. If your feelings go far beyond simple empathy and sympathy for your character, or if you begin to lose context about what is IC/RP, what is OOC, and what is RL, things get messy for everyone involved. So, I have some simple rules/tips by which I usually abide, and I encourage the same for others!

 

1. Is your RP significantly affecting your mood IRL? - It's okay to feel sympathy, empathy, or catharsis from an RP in the same way we might after watching a movie or show. However, if it is affecting your mood long term or in a way that impacts your life, that's an issue. Take a step back, and remember that it is just RP, it's online, it's fiction, it's fantasy. You are yourself. Not your avatar, not your character. You are the human being behind the monitor. Your real life is away from Eorzea, away from FFXIV, away from your computer. You may even need to take an actual break/hiatus from RP or the game entirely to get your priorities in order.

 

2. If you are taking your RP personally, it's probably a sign there is something wrong with your personal life. - Really, I'm no therapist here! I also don't mean this as an insult; everyone has RL issues and we all try to cope with them in different ways. However, if something in your life is blurring your judgment to the point that fantasy and reality aren't clearly defined and separate, if you feel the need to escape to a fantasy world constantly and avoid reality because the fantasy is better, or if you feel the need to live vicariously through a fictional character interacting with other fictional characters, you have real life issues you need to sort out. Do some introspection and find out what those problems are, and get your priorities in life straightened out, even if it means taking a break from the game. Not only are you hurting your RP, but you're hurting yourself and your life.

 

3. Make sure your RP is still fun. - RP is a hobby, it's solely for fun and it's meant to make us feel better and relax. If it's doing the opposite, that's wrong and it needs to be fixed. I've been in role-plays where things outside of my control have happened, and my character has faced tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. It gets to the point that my storyline is in a place I hadn't intended and don't enjoy, and my character is a big, quiet pile of misery and trauma and role-playing her makes me absolutely bored and miserable. These things are not always in our control, sometimes the plotwists other players have planned and the actions of other characters hurt our own characters and screw them over. Our characters will, and should, face adversity, trauma, despair, betrayal, and all sorts of drama. However, if your RP is NOTHING but consistent tragedy and drama, it stops being fun, especially if all the dark twists and turns were not intended. If this is happening, change your RP and make it fun again. Some people are vehemently against "metagaming" and anything that detracts from the natural flow and "immersion" of the RP. However, this is meant to be fun, and I don't see a single thing wrong with using some OOC poking and prodding to get the most enjoyment out of your RP. Talk to your RP partners. Ask them to start taking the RP in a different direction, even ask them to retcon some things if necessary. If they value the "immersion" of the RP more than they value your real life feelings and enjoyment of the RP, then they are someone with whom you don't need to be role-playing.

 

4. Don't play a self-insert character - Basically, if you say "my character is based on me," "my character is just like me," or "my character is exactly who I want to be and wish I was IRL," you might want to change things! Avoiding confusing OOC and IC becomes impossible when you consider your character a significant aspect and reflection of yourself. When something happens, you take it personally and it affects your emotions, because your character is you. When anyone criticizes your character, OOC or IC, you get offended and take it as a personal attack because it's essentially the same as someone criticizing your real life self. That's bad, don't do that. You're welcome to play whatever sort of character you please, and I won't stop you, but I genuinely believe know that no good will come from playing a self-insert character. There is a reason Mary Sue's are frowned upon and mocked.

[Zhavi]

I have a question. Why is this topic so popular?

 

None of my friends are into writing, and I kinda. . .don't really talk about rp with people I know irl. So, to me, topics like these are wonderful places to splurge my opinion and see how it shapes up alongside others' opinions who are into writing/rp like I am. And, of course, whenever there are differing opinions people tend to talk more, especially when the topic involves something they're passionate about. Just how that social element works.