why do people play as a Job?

[Aduu Avagnar]

I'm lead to believe, through my readings, that other than some (Paladin, and to an extent, Summoner and Scholar) that the jobs are meant to be super rare, especially white mages, where the storyline PC is the only non padjal to be granted the teachings, and thats due to being granted what is essentially the essence of a previous white mage.

 

Therefore, I pose the question in the thread title, if these jobs are so rare, (one person out of all of the people in Eorzea) do people rp as the Job, rather than the class?

[FreelanceWizard]

First off, putting on my admin hat, if this thread acquires the acrimony most threads about Job vs. Class RP have, I'm gonna lock it ASAP. All, please don't make me do that. :cry:

 

Taking off my admin hat and speaking personally, I think a lot comes down to the mixed messages of the game. First, you can be those things in game; you can be a White Mage and use Regen, Holy, and the like in game, so why shouldn't you be allowed to RP it? While I don't think this is an especially strong argument (after all, you can wield the legendary Thyrus in game, but one wouldn't advocate RPing it as that specific weapon), it's very strong for some. Its strength is bolstered by the narratives on the official site, where they say things such as...

 

Regarding Jobs generally: "Jobs refer to those martial paths that thrived in former times but have since fallen into disuse. Recent developments, however, have occasioned something of a revival in their popularity."

 

Regarding White Mage: "Although the art subsequently became forbidden, it is now in the midst of a revival at the hands of the Padjal, chosen of the elementals."

 

So, the official site purports that the Jobs are being revived and that the rarest of the rare by its own quest lore (White Mage) is actually in the midst of a revival. When you combine that with the fact that we as RPers generally discard or make generic parts of quest lines that purport the player character as the One True Hero, a person could write a narrative that explains how they have access to the power through a means different than that proposed by the quest line in game and have lore support for it. Many RPers are willing to accept a plausible narrative justification in these circumstances.

 

Finally, adventuring PCs are a significant minority of the population of Eorzea. So, one might argue that rarity is still enforced even if every PC adventurer uses a Job, because adventurers themselves are a tiny group of people compared to the masses who populate the continent.

 

Full disclosure: my character is not RPed as having access to any of the Jobs, except for Summoner. So, I'm just summing up the arguments I've seen; I don't personally RP a character that uses them.

[Artorias D'Argent]

I'm lead to believe, through my readings, that other than some (Paladin, and to an extent, Summoner and Scholar) that the jobs are meant to be super rare, especially white mages, where the storyline PC is the only non padjal to be granted the teachings, and thats due to being granted what is essentially the essence of a previous white mage.

 

Therefore, I pose the question in the thread title, if these jobs are so rare, (one person out of all of the people in Eorzea) do people rp as the Job, rather than the class?

 

The answer for me at least is quite simple.  I do it or rather I intended to RP a Job class because I was interested in RPing a dragoon and not some second rate lancer.  Actually that class/job was the sole reason why I came to play since it is my favorite one in the Final Fantasy games. Unfortunately I found out the lore behind that class was very poorly done.

[synaesthetic]

While I don't think this is an especially strong argument (after all, you can wield the legendary Thyrus in game, but one wouldn't advocate RPing it as that specific weapon), it's very strong for some.

 

Actually it's fairly bluntly stated during the story of "A Relic Reborn" that your Thyrus, or Stardust Rod, or Bravura or Curtana or any relic weapon is simply a copy of the original design. The Zodiac Weapons questline has already made it clear that a "relic" is simply a type of weapon, a methodology for recreating or mass-producing ancient Super Prototypes and that the old man wants to see if they can be improved via soul infusions.

 

In fact, during the BLM Job questline and again in the BLM Relic quest, it's stated and shown that Ququruka is the mage who actually has the Stardust Rod (the original one that Shattoto wielded). Yours is just a knock-off!

 

So yeah, actually, it's fairly plausible for a zillion relic-wielding adventurers to be running around all over Eorzea.

[Kailia]

I've been rping as a white mage. From an IC standpoint, my char acquired the soul gem of a white mage teacher back when white and black mages were super popular, and learned from it. She has since become an Elementalist, using both conjurer elements, and thaumaturge elements, with still heavy leaning towards white magic.

[LandStander]

You know...I always thought of this question myself. I think it comes down to preference. I personally prefer to just play more normal people. None of my characters are jobs IC and only classes. I think the lore around the jobs makes a lot of them too difficult to put into a good story that obeys the lore. But then again my view has always been that it takes years and years of training in order to really achieve something like advanced classes. I have always twitch a little bit when I see teenagers and people in their early 20's running around with this advanced form of magic or battle abilities. Denn has literally been trained since she could walk in the art of warfare and combat and yet I keep her a pugilist IC and yet she still kicks ass . I don't think you need to play the advanced jobs in order to have your character be a skill combatant. Conjurers can heal, Arcanist can summon, Thm (Im not going to try to spell this ) can blow things up, MRDs can go all crazy.

[synaesthetic]

I play Aeriyn the way I do because it's somewhat important to the plot I have, the story I want to tell and the ways I want to play with the lore. ICly she's a black mage and there's a plot reason why this is important... not just so she can fling Flares around. It's just as plot significant as her knowledge of Allagan tech.

[Ignacius]

Honestly, I don't play the job.  In fact, I play Ignacious as personally being learned in the use of a few weapons (specifically, spears and bows), so technically he could be considered two classes.  In reality, he's neither.  He picks up skills along the way.  He was originally trained in the use of the spear, but since then he's picked up dragoon jumping abilities.  I never specify when he learned them; he's obviously not an Ishgardian and he personally dislikes them.  However, he certainly picked them up.  He's also very skilled with a bow and may become a bard, but I won't play that he's specializing in a martial path.  He's just like any good contract soldier, he's constantly learning anything he can to give him an edge on the street.

 

But I'll never say he's a "dragoon" or a "bard" since he has a REAL problem with authority.  I can see that working into some people's stories, so it's certainly on a case-by-case basis.  Some people become dragoons and want to really play a dragoon, so they're part of that order.  I have a tendency not to do that unless I'm really wringing something out of it I didn't have before.  Otherwise, it's too much of a handcuff.

[Shayrei]

As I was intent on having a healer for end game and had it in my head that my character was going to be a super book worm come doctor/surgeon, I knew from the start she would play as a scholar and alchemist. She deeply involved in problem solving and more than less involved in actually fighting. I tend, though, to keep her magical healing to a minimum and only to be used in a pinch to give her allies boosted stamina and vigor during battle, not really to *poof* heal a wound, she leaves that for the rare occasions that she calls on her fairy.

 

Plus I love her artifact uniforms.

 

That said, my other toon is a monk. I don't play her to her class/job at all. She's a feisty little whoremaster ( *ahem* Madame) come sailor. While she's able to hold her own in most fights by merely refusing to give into people's threats or calling in some muscle she definitely isn't doing it with and more training than that which was given to her by a bunch of sailors.

[Nebbs]

I would not sweat it, just treat it as a more specialised role. 

 

Bard.. why would that be so rare no one had ever seen one?

 

Paladin.. they are all over the place

 

Summoner and Scholar just seem to be more specialised Arcainists

 

The others I have not played so much so won't comment. Oh and I won't mention people playing multiple Jobs.

[ArmachiA]

I play Armi as a traditional Bard - she sings and stuff and just happens to use a bow. You know... I haven't actually thought about whether or not she is FFXIV's version of a bard - with magic songs or whatever. I'm going to say no. She's just a stereotypical Bard like thing who happens to use a bow.

 

Loki is, at present, an Arcanist. My original plan was to make her a Summoner - my FC has even fought Garuda once ICly (And was shocked to live to tell the tale!) with her in the party but I haven't had her make that conversion yet. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I am with it. It feels really special snowflakey to have had to maneuver so much around the the lore just to get her to be a SMN. I mean, it's still possible, but I just haven't pressed the button yet. I want it to be a natural transition and not "HA HA I'M A SUMMONER NOW"

 

The Jobs are supposed to be Rare - I treat them as exceedingly rare.

 

My problem is I don't like playing characters who sit too far out of the box in specialness - which means most of my characters will not have the Jobs ICly. I really believe if you have to force specialness on your character to make them special, then they aren't that interesting in the first place. Armi and Loki are normal everyday girls who weird, abnormal things happen to and people find them interesting with knowing they are the only White Mage or the greatest Monk ever.

 

Also relics may be "copies" but they are built with the originals as a base, aren't they? He basically just reconstructs the broken relic into what he thinks it should look like.

[Zhavi]

You know...I always thought of this question myself. I think it comes down to preference. I personally prefer to just play more normal people. None of my characters are jobs IC and only classes. I think the lore around the jobs makes a lot of them too difficult to put into a good story that obeys the lore. But then again my view has always been that it takes years and years of training in order to really achieve something like advanced classes. I have always twitch a little bit when I see teenagers and people in their early 20's running around with this advanced form of magic or battle abilities. Denn has literally been trained since she could walk in the art of warfare and combat and yet I keep her a pugilist IC and yet she still kicks ass . I don't think you need to play the advanced jobs in order to have your character be a skill combatant. Conjurers can heal, Arcanist can summon, Thm (Im not going to try to spell this ) can blow things up, MRDs can go all crazy.

 

I tend to rp the same way -- it's why Zhi sucks at combat. She's spent her life focusing on staying fed and staying ahead; she hasn't had the time to train, much less find someone who could teach her. It always makes me chuckle a little when I see a character who learned how to fight by themselves and expect to go toe to toe with someone who has trained religiously with a master. (I am so looking forward to the dagger class! Zhi carries a small dagger as a last resort weapon and also to literally stab someone in the back if the chance arises and she feels she needs to )

 

But um, back to the OP's question: why does anyone do anything in rp? Because it interests them. Because on some level they have connected with the idea and it's fun for them. I think that if they really want to make it work with the lore, then they'll figure out a way to do it. If it breaks my own immersion and enjoyment, then I won't rp with them. But neither am I going to go up and tell them how to rp -- they aren't hurting anyone, and mmos aren't umm . . .regulated rp communities where there's a barrier to entry, so I'm not going to take up that role. Not that there's anything wrong with having a discussion about it, either. Discussions are good. I like discussions.

[Rinh Hallani]

Well, I RP my paladin as a gladiator and my summoner as an arcanist. I suppose it's possible to RP the job instead but the base classes fit ICly so I've never bothered trying to come up with a feasible reason to RP their jobs. That said, I don't mind if someone else does want to RP their job; just not something I'm interested in doing myself.

[Flickering Ember]

Why do people play as a Job?

The game honestly isn't too lore heavy but there are lore aspects of jobs that make it fun. I don't RP my character as having a Job but some of the history and lore around these Jobs is interesting enough that it feels like a wasted potential not to.

In other MMOs, the lore based around my class helped add character. I really very enjoyed tapping into the various aspects of my class on how she interacted with the world. I've only leveled one class to 50 though so I don't know if this applies to them either, but my class doesn't have any lore to it at all while as its associating Job class.

 

It's not that I particularly want to be a special snowflake, I just want to be able to RP my class the way I always have in other MMOs. When no one really RPs the general storyline anyway it seems silly for there to be, for example, only one non-Padjal white mage. 

 

 

I don't have to RP my character as any class or Job but I wouldn't mind if character development happened and she somehow got to the point she could have a Job. But there are other RPers who it is more important for and just want to be able to RP what the game says they are. 

 

RPers are generally good about not claiming credit for things in game storylines. (For example, I alone killed Arthas!) Not claiming credit for something you see on your character everyday is much muddier of a topic that really does deserve consideration from its RP community, though.

[Aduu Avagnar]

very interesting replies, I thank you all.

 

This wasn't a thread to defame one way or the other, simply to see other peoples standpoints.

[Ignacius]

Sort of as an afterthought, how many people play on a server?  How many of them are roleplayers (the only ones who are, ICly, going to be members of their class)?  A few hundred for each class, maybe?

 

I mean, granted, we could assume there are a lot more, but if we go with just the people roleplaying that they are these jobs, there aren't really that many.  It's just a high percentage of the player population (I assume, lore-wise, we adventurers are a small minority).

 

I guess, in the end, while there might be a lot of people playing dragoons, let's say, in the game population, we can assume there are thousands of beat soldiers in the grand companies and that your common mob fodder are just beat soldiers.  We're a small percentage of those.

[111]

I play a job, because it's literally my character's job. I play a sultansworn of Ul'dah, which is the full time version of the part time job that is Paladin. ICly it doesn't mean much, except that my character can use aether to make shields and such, but I have to RP the job to RP my character.

[synaesthetic]

But I'll never say he's a "dragoon" or a "bard" since he has a REAL problem with authority.  I can see that working into some people's stories, so it's certainly on a case-by-case basis.  Some people become dragoons and want to really play a dragoon, so they're part of that order.  I have a tendency not to do that unless I'm really wringing something out of it I didn't have before.  Otherwise, it's too much of a handcuff.

 

This is easier with the martial classes simply because the idea that a fighter could know how to use bows, swords, spears, axes and also punch stuff is fairly believable. Many martial experts are trained in the use of multiple weapon types because different weapons are designed to address different combat situations on the battlefield.

 

The magic classes are a bit different since the class or Job doesn't simply determine the type of training they have, but also determines what type of aetheric energy source they use to power their spells.

 

Aeriyn is ICly a scholar of magic, a researcher into the conscious manipulation of aether. She was a thaumaturge; she delved into the allegedly forbidden knowledge of black magic in order to better understand Allagan technology (and by extension, Garlean Magitek). In her effort to bridge the gaps between the various disciplines of magic, Aeri has also studied some conjury (she has not yet examined white magic due to the near-total control the Elementals and the Padjal maintain) and has also studied arcanima in the tradition of Limsa Lominsa, Nym and Allag. 

 

She's dabbled in every form of magic that is and/or was recently practiced in Eorzea, as well as both Allagan and Garlean device magic. Her understanding of nearly all of these disciplines is academic at best, with the exception of black magic--for purposes of combat in roleplay, Aeri fights with black magic (and occasionally somewhat poorly with a shortbow) and that's pretty much the extent of it.

 

And here's where the issue comes in--a soldier who can use a sword, swing an axe, pick up a pike and take up a charge and then grab a bow and knock a cavalryman off his horse is a lot more believable (and far less overpowered) than a mage dropping massive explosions while simultaneously curing their own wounds and commanding a summoned primal fragment and a Nymian fairy.

 

So Aeriyn is for all intents and purposes a black mage, even though she knows quite a lot about a lot of different disciplines of magic.

[Ignacius]

But I'll never say he's a "dragoon" or a "bard" since he has a REAL problem with authority.  I can see that working into some people's stories, so it's certainly on a case-by-case basis.  Some people become dragoons and want to really play a dragoon, so they're part of that order.  I have a tendency not to do that unless I'm really wringing something out of it I didn't have before.  Otherwise, it's too much of a handcuff.

 

This is easier with the martial classes simply because the idea that a fighter could know how to use bows, swords, spears, axes and also punch stuff is fairly believable. Many martial experts are trained in the use of multiple weapon types because different weapons are designed to address different combat situations on the battlefield.

 

The magic classes are a bit different since the class or Job doesn't simply determine the type of training they have, but also determines what type of aetheric energy source they use to power their spells.

 

Aeriyn is ICly a scholar of magic, a researcher into the conscious manipulation of aether. She was a thaumaturge; she delved into the allegedly forbidden knowledge of black magic in order to better understand Allagan technology (and by extension, Garlean Magitek). In her effort to bridge the gaps between the various disciplines of magic, Aeri has also studied some conjury (she has not yet examined white magic due to the near-total control the Elementals and the Padjal maintain) and has also studied arcanima in the tradition of Limsa Lominsa, Nym and Allag. 

 

She's dabbled in every form of magic that is and/or was recently practiced in Eorzea, as well as both Allagan and Garlean device magic. Her understanding of nearly all of these disciplines is academic at best, with the exception of black magic--for purposes of combat in roleplay, Aeri fights with black magic (and occasionally somewhat poorly with a shortbow) and that's pretty much the extent of it.

 

And here's where the issue comes in--a soldier who can use a sword, swing an axe, pick up a pike and take up a charge and then grab a bow and knock a cavalryman off his horse is a lot more believable (and far less overpowered) than a mage dropping massive explosions while simultaneously curing their own wounds and commanding a summoned primal fragment and a Nymian fairy.

 

So Aeriyn is for all intents and purposes a black mage, even though she knows quite a lot about a lot of different disciplines of magic.

That does bring up more of a philosophical question.  Actual "job" classes require you to have a minimum working knowledge of another discipline.  So is a White Mage, for example, a hybrid conjurer-arcanist?  Or is that just a game mechanic?  Or is magic a more fluid art than the game gives it credit for.

 

It might be completely feasible that someone knows all the disciplines, but it's not really necessary that they practice them all.  For instance, as per my example, Orleans knows quite a bit about polearms and bows both, but I don't play him as specifically knowing much about great axes (even though he had to learn it to be a Dragoon, so I have it).  I'm sure it's an uncomplicated enough weapon that he can direct the sharp bit where it needs to go, but he doesn't ICly know any of the disciplines behind Mauraders (going out and breaking rocks is just a little undignified for him).

 

Magic might be similar; there's nothing saying you can't know everything.  It might be a lot more like why I don't know anything about plumbing.  As an architectural designer, I might be aware of things like floor drains, sump pumps, and so on, but I'd be terrible at actually putting them in.  General knowledge is easy to obtain.  However, it does seem like everything is a sort of hybrd once you're into soulstones so it might be that the weapons you bear REALLY have something to do with the magic you throw, meaning you might know everything, it might simply be impossible to cast, say, a major heal through a black mage's staff; it's just a matter of not having the tools for the job.

 

It might then mean that you could carry a radical and a staff and act as if you knew both disciplines at once, but you can't actually USE both at the same time.  That's how I generally work Orleans.  He is very versed in bows and lances and he often carries both around with him, but it's not like he can just fire an arrow while wielding a lance.

[Aduu Avagnar]

I think when it comes to having the secondary class,that is simply a game mechanic, there is no mention of the alternate classes with the job quests, merely as a seperate entity.

[E'irawen]

I don't RP K'aworu specifically as a white mage or a conjurer, but more specifically just a "healer" in most cases because the preferences among players (ie: some rping very strictly according to in-game jobs and weapons vs. people who are more lax) seems to vary significantly. It makes it kind of easier, I guess?

 

Personally, I don't really specify between the ranks of job v. class. In RP, all those who use elemental spells are referred to just as "people who use thaumaturgy" and people who can heal are "people who use conjury"

 

I like to stick to lore a lot, but I guess I don't like sticking to it so far as to needing to use the game mechanics in RP. (Does that make sense?)

[Suko'to]

Not sure if this was covered, but what about jobs that are planned to be in the game, but aren't actually INCORPORATED yet? Such as NIN, SAM, DRK, RDM, etc. Surely they exist because they're part of Final Fantasy's lore in general, but is there anyone that actually roleplays these jobs that have yet to be added?

 

I, for one, play a character who's more like a THF than a PGL or MNK. However, THF (which will probably be a class, not a job) isn't available yet. Still, when you think of Ul'dah's streets, there's bound to be thieves and the like, yes? Just because there's no job, or class, to support them yet, should we not venture into what isn't yet in the game's mechanics?

[synaesthetic]

Aeriyn's occupation is a scientist. She's a researcher of magic. This "class" doesn't exist in the game, either.

 

If you have to categorize her via the game mechanics, she's a BLM. ICly, though, she knows black magic but doesn't actually do the things black mages do in lore, like close voidgates and summon and destroy prominent voidsent. She learned black magic to better understand Allagan technology, not to hurl giant fireballs (though she can do that as well).

[Ildur]

From a roleplay perspective, the ammount of classes any given game has is effectively "as many as you want". Just as there are no scientist classes, there's no masonry, architects, businessmen or thieves in the mechanics of the game. But that doesn't mean that there is no actual in-universe people spending their lives doing those things. In fact, it's pretty unreal to think those don't exist, unless the lore states otherwise. Using that logic you can infer that there are likely masons, architects, businessmen and dagger wielding thieves in the world. The same way that not all people using swords and shields studied in the Gladiator's Guild, or that not all spear users come from Gridania, can be used to justify the existance of other 'classes'. It's just that the game doesn't represent them because it would be pretty inconvenient: the same reason cities aren't populated with tons of NPCs or why you can travel all across Eorzea by foot in a few in-game days instead. It's scaled down for convinience.

 

The problems come with classes/jobs that can't be properly infered from the current setting. For example, currently ARR (as far as I know, anyway) doesn't have a good way to justify samurais or ninjas. But there are ways to justify thieves and musketeers: we have daggers, there's no conceptual barrier stopping characters from stealing things or being stealthy; and there's gunpowder and firearms. The only thing you can't do is say that there are actual guilds for those, but you can create a semi-canonical lore by simply creating the backstory. After all, and as I said before, there's no reason to think that all swordmen studied in the Gladiator's Guild. So there's no reason to think that thieves, musketeers or whatever had to come from an actual guild. All you need is the proper weapon and thematic skills.

[Ignacius]

From a roleplay perspective, the ammount of classes any given game has is effectively "as many as you want". Just as there are no scientist classes, there's no masonry, architects, businessmen or thieves in the mechanics of the game. But that doesn't mean that there is no actual in-universe people spending their lives doing those things. In fact, it's pretty unreal to think those don't exist, unless the lore states otherwise. Using that logic you can infer that there are likely masons, architects, businessmen and dagger wielding thieves in the world. The same way that not all people using swords and shields studied in the Gladiator's Guild, or that not all spear users come from Gridania, can be used to justify the existance of other 'classes'. It's just that the game doesn't represent them because it would be pretty inconvenient: the same reason cities aren't populated with tons of NPCs or why you can travel all across Eorzea by foot in a few in-game days instead. It's scaled down for convinience.

 

The problems come with classes/jobs that can't be properly infered from the current setting. For example, currently ARR (as far as I know, anyway) doesn't have a good way to justify samurais or ninjas. But there are ways to justify thieves and musketeers: we have daggers, there's no conceptual barrier stopping characters from stealing things or being stealthy; and there's gunpowder and firearms. The only thing you can't do is say that there are actual guilds for those, but you can create a semi-canonical lore by simply creating the backstory. After all, and as I said before, there's no reason to think that all swordmen studied in the Gladiator's Guild. So there's no reason to think that thieves, musketeers or whatever had to come from an actual guild. All you need is the proper weapon and thematic skills.

There's a reason there's no architect class.  You'd have skills like:

 

Call Contractor:  35 CP

 

Call a contractor.  Learn that they missed an element in the CAD and you will have to redesign your egress path to meet Eorzean fire code and assign room volume to new dead end corridors.  This ability takes 24 hours to take effect.