Limsa Lominsa and alcoholism

[JFrombaugh]

As we all know, practically every Limsa Lominsan in the game is shown to be a wine & ale swilling alcoholic. If I remember correctly, in LL's Main Scenario quests, whenever your character gets a vision from the Echo, everyone else thinks that you passed out because you drank too much.

 

IMO a Disciple of Magic character (especially an Arcanist) *probably* would not like this, as so much binge drinking tends to do badly for the brain and for mood in general, two things that I know are both keys to becoming a good mage.

 

So do you think this would be a reason for me to choose a Conjurer or Thaumaturge instead? Or would it be that hard to just suspend disbelief?

[Shayrei]

You're looking then for a character that would have a reason to binge drink?

 

It's my belief that no one is 'on the job' 24/7/365. If your character likes to take a break on his/her off days with a pyramid of empty bottles, so be it.

 

That said, I don't think it'd matter what your class is if your toon is an alcoholic. If your character is an active member of the guild, (someone in the public eye) I would think there would always be some sort of reprimand if they were found sloshed in an alley.

 

My arcanist (more over doctor) drinks.. just not to excess (at meals).

 

Now, if you're playing a pirate that just happens to have some magic training picked up at this port or another... drink to your drunken content.

[FreelanceWizard]

I personally wouldn't take the stereotypes presented in the story as an indication that all Lominsans are alcoholics. While it's part of the whole "ships and pirates" theme of the city (work hard, play hard, etc.), there's certainly a wide range of drinking behaviors. That said, I agree that your typical mage probably doesn't drink to excess...

 

...except perhaps as a training exercise ("if you can cast while drunk, finesse while sober should be easy").

[JFrombaugh]

You're looking then for a character that would have a reason to binge drink?

 

It's my belief that no one is 'on the job' 24/7/365. If your character likes to take a break on his/her off days with a pyramid of empty bottles, so be it.

 

That said, I don't think it'd matter what your class is if your toon is an alcoholic. If your character is an active member of the guild, (someone in the public eye) I would think there would always be some sort of reprimand if they were found sloshed in an alley.

 

My arcanist (more over doctor) drinks.. just not to excess (at meals).

 

Now, if you're playing a pirate that just happens to have some magic training picked up at this port or another... drink to your drunken content.

 

No, you completely misunderstood. My character is not into drinking to begin with, for the reasons I listed.

 

And I was asking if maybe that would be a reason to choose Gridania or Ul'dah instead.

[Shayrei]

You're looking then for a character that would have a reason to binge drink?

 

It's my belief that no one is 'on the job' 24/7/365. If your character likes to take a break on his/her off days with a pyramid of empty bottles, so be it.

 

That said, I don't think it'd matter what your class is if your toon is an alcoholic. If your character is an active member of the guild, (someone in the public eye) I would think there would always be some sort of reprimand if they were found sloshed in an alley.

 

My arcanist (more over doctor) drinks.. just not to excess (at meals).

 

Now, if you're playing a pirate that just happens to have some magic training picked up at this port or another... drink to your drunken content.

 

No, you completely misunderstood. My character is not into drinking to begin with, for the reasons I listed.

 

And I was asking if maybe that would be a reason to choose Gridania or Ul'dah instead.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding!

 

Still, I don't think there would be any issue with an arcanist that is strictly non-alcoholic. Like Freelance mentioned, I wouldn't take the few examples in the story to be a majority rule. Pirates, sailors and booze go hand in hand, but the city is full of much more than just pirates and sailors.

[Kellach Woods]

Besides, they're not alcoholic. Alcoholics go to meetings.

 

Seriously though you can play a character the way you want no matter where you come from. Some characters may react to yours like it's usual to see them drinking and you might have an in with some folks by showing you're a teetotaler Lominsan.

[Guest Hiroshu]

My primary thought is that every society has outcasts. A non-alcoholic in a society of alcoholics is way more interesting to me than someone who neatly fits the mold. Given what you're describing, I'd actually encourage you to start in Limsa and get "stuck" spending as much time there as possible, much to your character's chagrin.

[FreelanceWizard]

My primary thought is that every society has outcasts. A non-alcoholic in a society of alcoholics is way more interesting to me than someone who neatly fits the mold. Given what you're describing, I'd actually encourage you to start in Limsa and get "stuck" spending as much time there as possible, much to your character's chagrin.

 

It would be amusing (and a fun RP hook) to be the "straight man" to stereotypical Lominsans -- the one who always orders milk or water at the bar, keeps his nose in a book even as a bar fight goes on around him, turns down alcohol whenever it's offered, etc. In fact, I imagine many arcanists fall into that category, given the level of study required to be a maths-wielding linguist customs agent with a magic squirrel.

[S'maia Rahz]

...a maths-wielding linguist customs agent with a magic squirrel.

 

 

 Arguably the most awesome description of an arcanist ever.

 

As to the original question posed, I'd honestly suggest not to allow in-game NPC commentary sway you to/from a character concept, any more than you'd allow the in-game main storyline quests to dictate your character's story or personality.

[Saefinn]

As we all know, practically every Limsa Lominsan in the game is shown to be a wine & ale swilling alcoholic. If I remember correctly, in LL's Main Scenario quests, whenever your character gets a vision from the Echo, everyone else thinks that you passed out because you drank too much.

 

IMO a Disciple of Magic character (especially an Arcanist) *probably* would not like this, as so much binge drinking tends to do badly for the brain and for mood in general, two things that I know are both keys to becoming a good mage.

 

So do you think this would be a reason for me to choose a Conjurer or Thaumaturge instead? Or would it be that hard to just suspend disbelief?

 

I play a Scholar, a Scholar captain who happens to be from Limsa and also is a recovering alcoholic.

 

Intelligent men can drink, can get drunk and can be alcoholics. Heck in history there's some great thinkers who were under the influence, not just alcohol, but stronger stuff too.

 

As Captain Saefinn has spent so much time at sea, he's found one of his favourite pass times is to read, he spent a lot of time sat reading a book and despite being the son of a sailor, he has managed to become quite well educated for this reason. The alcohol comes with the company he keeps and it helps with a lot of his guilt. Only when he takes it too far does it affect him poorly. Getting drunk != lack of intelligence.

 

But you don't need to dance around with the alcohol because it seems traditionally Limsan, because it's not like it's a mandatory thing for a Limsan to do, even if somebody Limsan might thing you weird or drunk when you pass out for some given reason. Heck, you don't need to use the main storyline on your character.

[JFrombaugh]

My primary thought is that every society has outcasts. A non-alcoholic in a society of alcoholics is way more interesting to me than someone who neatly fits the mold. Given what you're describing, I'd actually encourage you to start in Limsa and get "stuck" spending as much time there as possible, much to your character's chagrin.

 

It would be amusing (and a fun RP hook) to be the "straight man" to stereotypical Lominsans -- the one who always orders milk or water at the bar, keeps his nose in a book even as a bar fight goes on around him, turns down alcohol whenever it's offered, etc. In fact, I imagine many arcanists fall into that category, given the level of study required to be a maths-wielding linguist customs agent with a magic squirrel.

 

So I guess one of the fundamental differences between Arcanist and Thaumaturge (other than their methods of casting), is that using getting a Masters Degree/PhD as an analogy, Arcanists study really hard to get all those As, while Thaumaturges manage to graduate simply because they had natural talent in their field of study.

 

...a maths-wielding linguist customs agent with a magic squirrel.

 

 

 Arguably the most awesome description of an arcanist ever.

 

As to the original question posed, I'd honestly suggest not to allow in-game NPC commentary sway you to/from a character concept, any more than you'd allow the in-game main storyline quests to dictate your character's story or personality.

 

As a "newbie" RPer, that is probably one of the biggest traps I fall into.

 

I just remember that LLs storyline is the only part of the game where it is implied that the PC inherited a love of drinking from the bartender who sends you out on a good portion of the Main scenario quests.

[Aya]

If you don't think that intellectuals and knowledge-based professionals are capable of heavy drinking or binge drinking, then you don't know enough intellectuals!

 

There's plenty of room for any sort of drinking behavior you wish for your character.

[FreelanceWizard]

So I guess one of the fundamental differences between Arcanist and Thaumaturge (other than their methods of casting), is that using getting a Masters Degree/PhD as an analogy, Arcanists study really hard to get all those As, while Thaumaturges manage to graduate simply because they had natural talent in their field of study.

 

That's my read of the class lore, more or less. Arcanima is based on complex arcane geometries, linguistics, and channeling Aether through gemstones; formally trained arcanists also learn a great deal of strategy and planning. So, a fair amount of study is bound to be required to grasp the art. Thaumaturgy is based on the control of one's internal Aether and so focuses on introspection and requires a high degree of natural ability (that a certain brother in their class story doesn't possess). Thaumaturgy is, as I read it, more intuitive than arcanima, whereas arcanima requires more study.

 

Of course, my interpretation here isn't necessarily the only one.

[Warren Castille]

I haven't done the LL opening quests, but I imagine you pass out in the Drunken Wench? Consider it from their perspective: Some new person in a dress showed up, grabbed his head and flopped over while you and your friends were tossing a cold one back after work. Of course he can't hold his liquor! He's a man in a dress! You and the dockworkers laugh it off as you return to your drinks.

 

"Adventurers. Ha! Plaguin' this city and ain't even spendin' enough coin in th' bar to keep themselfs welcome."

[JFrombaugh]

If you don't think that intellectuals and knowledge-based professionals are capable of heavy drinking or binge drinking, then you don't know enough intellectuals!

 

There's plenty of room for any sort of drinking behavior you wish for your character.

 

Actually, I am well aware that many alcoholics are actually very intelligent people. In fact, one of the biggest reasons people become alcoholics is depression, which many intellectual people do in fact suffer from!

 

However, there have been many scientific studies that show that binge drinking does in fact damage the brain, namely the pre-frontal cortex, which is responsible for things like planning and deciding. I'm not kidding, I saw this in a serious program, it was more about how potentially harmful various drugs are than alcohol abuse specifically. (I remember they said alcohol actually is far more dangerous than many illegal drugs like Ecstasy)

 

And in a way, I'm kind of referring more to the "social" aspect of it in this case. I think that as a class, Mages would be more likely to make the decision to try to avoid alcohol after seeing what drinking does to their friends (bar fights, impaired judgement, etc.). If they did end up alcoholics, it would probably be more due to something like trying to escape depression, rather than getting drunk "just for the sake of it" the way pirates do.

 

That's just my 2 Gil anyway.

 

And in case you didn't know, alcoholism isn't something people develop immediately. It takes time. Lots of people can have one or two drinks socially and be perfectly content.

[Aya]

Actually, I am well aware that many alcoholics are actually very intelligent people. In fact, one of the biggest reasons people become alcoholics is depression, which many intellectual people do in fact suffer from!

 

However, there have been many scientific studies that show that binge drinking does in fact damage the brain, namely the pre-frontal cortex, which is responsible for things like planning and deciding. I'm not kidding, I saw this in a serious program, it was more about how potentially harmful various drugs are than alcohol abuse specifically. (I remember they said alcohol actually is far more dangerous than many illegal drugs like Ecstasy)

 

And in a way, I'm kind of referring more to the "social" aspect of it in this case. I think that as a class, Mages would be more likely to make the decision to try to avoid alcohol after seeing what drinking does to their friends (bar fights, impaired judgement, etc.). If they did end up alcoholics, it would probably be more due to something like trying to escape depression, rather than getting drunk "just for the sake of it" the way pirates do.

 

That's just my 2 Gil anyway.

 

And also just to clarify, alcoholism isn't something people develop immediately. It takes time. Lots of people can have one or two drinks socially and be perfectly content.

 

My point was not: "Alcoholics can be smart."

 

My point was actually on topic!  "The real-world equivalents to in-game arcanists are more than capable of being heavy drinkers or binge drinkers", and when young and in training are even more likely to be!  Certainly such an analogy has its weak points, but I think the case for Limsan Arcanists being teetotalers is even weaker than the case for real world intellectuals, since a) they lack the science you are citing b) they are surrounded by a hard-drinking culture c) they have even less to do for fun in their free time!

 

Just my two cents on the likelihood of it all, though I am still rather convinced that the main point here is that there is room for any sort of drinking habits for an arcanist character.  If yours refuses to drink because he doesn't like its affects on his studies, then that makes sense.  If another likes to study hard and then party hard, that makes sense too

[JFrombaugh]

So far almost everyone I've talked to has suggested otherwise, but right now I'm leaning towards Conjurer and/or Thaumaturge for my character Miranda's class. She would definitely get along with Kan-E-Senna the best of the three city leaders, and those two classes focus more on your individual training rather than serving the Limsa Lominsan IRS. Plus she may prefer willpower-based casting rather than science/math-based...

 

Then again the Arcanist Jobs would allow her to be completely separated from others in her own category. Decisions, decisions!