K'dath

Well, naturally. It's my opinion based on my experiences. I didn't mean to imply anything about it was objectively true. I believe the goth culture aspects encompass a larger part of the teenage population than the 'otaku' culture does. Therefore, I think it more likely WoD MMO will have more teenagers. Because of this, more players will be idiots, because teenagers are irrevocably stupid. That's my hypothesis. And of course accessibility is a factor in popularity. Books become more popular when they're made into movies. Now people who don't want to be invested in the time and depth of a novel can get the story in a 3 hour chunk. I guarantee you with 100% certainty more people have watched Game of Thrones than have read the entirety of A Song of Fire and Ice. It does take effort to be invested in a story regardless of medium, but some require more focus, more time, more monetary investment. Buying and reading books, finding players/a GM, physically showing up to a session, doing your own character book-keeping, and accounting for random acts of player/GM interference versus sitting at a computer with all possible values already defined... Which takes less effort? Of course popularity does not mean it necessarily draws the pop culture (commonly called a 'cult' hit), and accessibility doesn't necessarily make it popular (plenty of shitty AAA games available on all consoles). It's just my speculation, because these are typical, observable trends. Certainly not rules!

To be completely fair, WoD is not a special case by any means. Every online game is going to have idiots, so it should be expected. The WoD MMO will have more than its fair share of idiotic vampire LARPers/fanatics just as FFXIV has more than its fair share of idiotic weeaboos. (Yeah, that's right. I said it.) The level of stupidity in the player base is not going to be any higher than usual. At least not significantly, anyway. But, just like RP griefers, we can easily just ignore them. In all fairness, I haven't seen THAT many real weeaboos. I mean, I've seen people called 'Naruto Bleach' walking around, but as far as actually Japanese animation/gaming discussion? It's all been pretty enlightened with a wide variety of tastes. But WoD is a grimdark vampire fantasy world that has a heavy influence on rebellion and liberation. It was long before Twilight was a twinkle in that deeply disturbed woman's mind. It always catered to angsty teenagers as a way to live out their fantasies of being sexy monsters that don't have to live by arbitrary human laws. That's not to say ALL or even MOST players are angry teens. I think most people who are invested in White Wolf's universe are probably older and more mature. Table Tops take vastly more effort as a hobby than anime or videogames. The thing is? WoD MMO will be an easy access for people that know nothing about the context or themes, who associate vampires with the 'dark but soft' modern spin rather than the 'classic punk' influence of Lestat that oWoD was made for. In short, the ratio of 'idiots' will likely be improbably high.

Well, in the Summoner storyline:

Are you just asking opinions? Or like, searching for hard rules backed up by lore? Because I'm not overly positive on the latter. Thusfar I haven't seen anything in game that seems to suggest summons travel far from their masters. Going by game mechanics they despawn after you get too far apart. I'd imagine that because the -egi are derived from the power of the primals, rather than independent deities as the primals themselves, they'd require the concentration and will of their masters to remain tangible. In fact, this seems to be backed up by the class description for Arcanists: As for me, opinion wise, it's never come up in RP. K'dath utilizes each one differently, as according to their talents, and regards his -egi as weapons. He basically follows the ol' samurai sword code 'Don't unsheathe it if you don't mean to use it'. Carbuncle is the exception. Since Carbuncle is refereed to as a 'familiar' I treat it more like a traditional familiar in RP; as a companion animal who's natural affinity for magic lends to his master's. His nickname is Carter, and he likes ear scritchies. It's my personal head canon that, while all -egis would be similar because they are pulled from the same power source, that Carbuncle, due to being individually shaped, are all different. I wouldn't mean to imply that is necessarily correct in terms of lore though, it's just my own though.

Segregation of game mechanics and story. Your character still has all the same approximate knowledge, skill, and experience. You can address using a different weapon ICly as having a desire/need to branch out and try other forms of combat in order to gain mastery. Or you can chose not to address that you're leveling another class ICly at all. I level other things off and on, but if I'm being dragged into character I usually just switch back to Summoner anyway.

Look, you take your freaking bubbles and gtfo, Jack. And i'm just sitting here with my Val'anyr crying softly to myself... At least I got mimys head before the nerf *sniff* *deep, regretful sigh* I have two shards sitting in my bank to this day. Two. The pain of a Legendary so close, and yet so far... /forever on Cinders portion of Dragonwrath

They've pretty much got it covered. I'd personally discount the fact that Jobs are a 'rare' thing since you see enemy humanoids strutting around lobbing fireballs at you and your mates. They've clearly come to power by some alternate means. That being said, alternate interpretations of events that are not elaborated upon objectively are always good places to derive a 'rare' power source/gift from. Just because an NPC says 'Oh yeah, there's like, one Black Mage in all of Eorzea and he's evil,' doesn't make it true. NPCs have a capacity to be unreliable narrators. BUT if you go the path of free-form interpretation, it's always in your best interest to research. Lots and lots of research. Because people will doubt you and question you, and needle you about your choice to not be conventional or simple. And, assuming that bothers you, you'll need to justify your interpretation with appropriate lore related history, facts, and theories.

Ah, but I was inquiring about the Aevis which were referred to as dragons in one of the quests during the Ishgardian leg of the story. I'm pretty sure the Aevis are not the same as the Dragons/Dravanians proper, but I was curious as if there was a connection/reason as to why they were referred to as dragons during that particular quest. Distant cousins or something to that effect? I knew that the Dragons were technically beastmen though. I think it's mentioned on Bahamut's little 'preview' on the website, even though the Dragons themselves aren't shown there.

Honestly it is also a bit hard for many people to agree on what constitutes ERP. I was once rping with a friend and the topic of the conversation was about sex. Got a pm from a friendly non rper who was worried that we might not know others could see our conversation. He didn't mind personally but clearly it was a more intimate topic for him oocly than for us. True enough. Some people are more conservative than others and the subject matter is going to offend different people in different ways. We could absolutely put on top hats and have a gentlemanly discussion about the many fascinating technicalities and nuances of it all. And that's not even sarcasm, honestly. Generally though, people have a sense of what is socially acceptable. If you wouldn't say it or do it while, say, at a crowded bus stop or at a store, then it's probably not the best idea to say it/do it in a public chat channel... unless... you know... that's your thing. And if it is that's fine, but, uh, those people get banned from buses and stores, so the analogy still holds up. Either way, your mileage may vary. I just think it's better to err on the side of caution with any subject that has a propensity for volatile reactions.

Tonberries are the "Survivors" of the Nym civiliation. They were hight hard by a plague that transformed them in mind and body and those who 'survived" were placed in the palace and sealed up. We know at least one Tonberry used to be a Lala so we can assume those who are similar height were that race. All information on Tonberries comes from the Scholar questline Fascinating... thanks for clearing that up for me! I was going to go scholar, but ended up going summoner at kinda the last minute. Now I'm actually pretty interested.

For some reason I HIGHLY doubt you'd get banned if you stood around ERPing graphically in a massive crowd of people. I've seen people doing it in public chat, you know, on purpose. And Square seems kinda ambivalent on if they even care about reports right now. They've got their hands full still trying to ramp the game into full swing and crank out all the features, ferret out the RMT hydra who's heads keep respawning even more numerously, and deal with 'more important' things that people typing sexual expletives that would be obfuscated at least to some extent, by the profanity filter. Not to encourage that sort of behavior or anything to that ends. Keep it classy on the public front :love:

Updated the OP, took the Moogles off the list and filled in the Sahagin lore with Merri's description. I knew a little bit about them, but they're not really touched on too awful much outside of Limsa Lominsa's story line and are kinda hand waved as 'not a threat' simply because they don't have the means to summon Leviathan, despite the fact they seem far more ruthless and aggressive than the Kobold. I'm betting/hoping they'll be the center of a massive update in time though. Leviathan's been trumped up way too much to just forget about. And there's also that matter of the giant precambrian sea monster skeleton just hanging out in La Noscea... that seems important... The Ascians were definitely the 'missing piece' in my research, thanks for bringing that point up. There was a connection I wasn't quite making, and you'd think with my focus on reading all the damnable quests multiple times I wouldn't have blanked so hard on that part. As for 'what qualifies a (beast)man' I've pretty much just referred to the list of 'Spoken Blood' class enemies. Interestingly enough this class also includes Giants (Gigas), Tonberries, and a currently unused classification called 'Siren'. I was pretty curious about the exact nature of the Tonberry, they seem a tad too ghastly to be men and don't really act with a lot of intent or motive, as far as I can tell. But they don't really seem like beastmen either, and I'm pretty sure Tonberry King is just an abnormally rotund Tonberry rather than a primal. Spriggans and Elementals are both referred to as 'Soulkin' and they are bloodless... I guess if you shiv'd a Moogle it'd bleed, but other than that, are basically the same thing then? I'm kind of assuming Tonberry are about like that too, but that's just a chain of wild mass guessing based only on the classification system. Aevis were another one I'd wondered about. They are Scalekin rather than Spoken, so I assume that means they lack intelligence. The Dragons are referred to as being beastmen though we haven't rightly seen any of them yet. Seeing as most of my exposure to Ishgardian politics has been dealing with Aevis, I was wondering if there's a connection between the two of them? I didn't catch it if it was explained, but in one of the levequests in the area it does refer to the Aevis as a dragon. It's clearly not a dragon proper, but the two seem related at least. Guess I'll need to level Botany a bit more aggressively! I'll grab a screen cap of the dialogue if it does mention the Ixal! That's a neat point of contention. And it gives me a bit of encouragement concerning my own hypothesis... and also encouragement to level Botany! Thanks for all the questions, answers, statements, and opinions thusfar! Glad to see other people are at least a little interested on the matter, rather than treating the beastfolk like sword fodder! And there's always new patches and expansions to look forward too. Never know what might yet happen~ At the Mountains of Madness should be required reading for everyone. Everyone. Ever. It's an objective fact that it is pretty much the best story ever written, surpassing even the timeless works of Dante and Homer in its epic mastery and shaming even the most ancient religious text with its deep profoundness.

I find it hard to imagine asking for help with a character concept. Then again, my imagination is very wild. I'm never really wanting for ideas. Rather, I spend days (sometimes weeks) culling and refining my ideas until I like a character well enough to deem them 'RPable'. And then some characters never get to the point I'm happy with them and they clutter up my list with alts for years... Personally I think you have a very clever bunch of friends, they're good references to some of the better stories out there! And there's no shame in borrowing ideas from a time tested story! Sure, it leads to the use of tropes and cliches that are tired, but then you put your own spin, your flavor, on it. It's a test of your creativity to do something that has been done into the ground and do it in a way that people will look at and go 'Huh... Well, I've never seen that before.' And you know, when it's not important enough to be assed going through so much effort, murdered by (bandits, wildlife, etc) and then found amongst their bloodied remains by (villagers, scavengers, etc) is pretty much the fantasy standard. Can never go wrong there.

>_> Whta about Aggron, Gardevior, Flygon? Breloom. All of those are excellent pokemon. Can you even get shroomish yet? I haven't seen one... I'd need a DW one for Technition if I wanted to go offensive... Though I could always run a Poison Heal annoyer, would probably fit nice. I thought about running the notorious Rock Polish/Head Smash combo on Aggron, but really, he's kinda terrible. I don't know if Mega fixes this, but I wanted to use mine on Ampharos. With Mega Amphy and Hyreigon I already have two dragon types, adding Flygon is like saying 'Please destroy my face with Outrage spam'. Gardevoir... might be a winner though (I'm kinda iffy on if I like him aesthetically). I've already got a Psychic type in Delphox, but he's kinda... up in the air. I WANT to play around with his Magician ability but I don't know about its usefulness right now. I have a Modest one with Blaze already trained too, not that EV training is a pain anymore. Gonna have to see how he performs!

I think I have everyone on here added, if not, feel free to bug me and remind me I need to add you! Right now I'm working on my 'All Gen All Stars' team. Now that we have six generations, I can finally make a team with one from each! I used only my favorites from each gen WHILE trying to maintain a good balance of types and synergy; GEN I Jin, the Adamant Marowak @Thick Club 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe Ability: Rock Head -Earthquake -Double-Edge -Iron Head -Thunder Punch GEN II Jormungand, the Timid Ampharos @Ampharosite 172 HP / 252 SAtk / 84 Spd Ability: Mold Breaker -Volt Switch -Dragon Pulse (Game Freak, y u no give him Draco Meteor!?) -Signal Beam -Thunder Wave GEN III Dunno yet, Gen 3 sucks GEN IV Crowley, the Jolly Staraptor @Sharp Beak 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Ability: Reckless -Brave Bird -Double Edge -Close Combat - U-Turn/Roost (can't decide) GEN V Precious, the Modest Hydreigon @Choice Specs 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Ability: Levitate - Draco Meteor - Dark Pulse - Flamethrower - U-turn (Don't judge me, Hydreigon is legitimately my favorite Pokemon ever) GEN VI Twink, the Modest Delphox @Lifeorb 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Ability: Blaze (Magician?) -Calm Mind -Flamethrower -Psyshock -Grass Knot Nothing on it is final though, if anyone wants to toss out some insights. I was considering a Rock-Polish Aggron for Gen 3, but I felt like it broke up the flow and would stick me with more vulnerabilities to cover than it would actually help. And obviously it's not for ultra competitive play, seeing as it's mostly Sub-Standard Tier Pokemon. But we'll see! I especially wanna see how Mega Amphy works out! I'm thinking about running him as a support build instead~ Fun fact: The nicknames are playing off my Gen 4 'All Stars' team: Mugen, Thor and Aleister, of their respective species; My Gen V competitive team were all named after Blind Guardian songs, Hydriegon was Jerusalem which notoriously offended everyone at the tournament.

[align=center][/align] [align=center]On the Beast Tribes of Eorzea[/align] I should probably start out by saying at the time of writing; I haven't finished the main story line. I've been trying to avoid making too many assumptions or definitive statements about anything in the game I haven't observed, lest I make myself look like an idiot. I've done a lot of research and background reading, but I really don't see myself finishing the story mode any time soon, and I'd like some insights. So, Spoiler Warnings! and Spoilers Sought! As far as I've observed, in regards to the beastmen, they're pretty much all regarded with distrust, even the 'friendly' ones. Of the beastmen without a primal we know of, the Qiqirn and the Goblins are the most accepted. The Mamool Ja seem about half-a-step down, as they are socially, but not politically, feared/disliked. For these races, Limsa Lominsa seems to be the most tolerant to beast races, as they're allowed to live and trade within its walls, a courtesy not extended to them in the other City-States. Gridania, as far as I can tell, while not openly hostile to these races, will also not abide them in the Twelveswood. Ul'Dah is openly and overtly hostile to all non-humanoid races. Moving on, 'friendly beastmen' with a Primal consist of the Sylph.The Sylph of Little Solace not tempered by the Primal Ramuh are considered allies of Gridania but are still considered hostiles in Ul'Dah. And then we have the interesting ones the hostile beastmen who summon Primals. The Amalj'aa are the sole beast tribe native to Thanlaan and worship the primal Ifrit, whom they believe blessed the land with Holy Fire. They're nomadic hunters who are spread throughout the region, but have a stronghold named Zahar'ak which means 'Like a rock' in their language and who's location was chosen by ritual divination to be most effective in war. They take human slaves and offer them as living sacrifices to their god. The hostilities between the Amalj'aa and Ul'dah are mutual and continue to escalate with movements from either side. The Ixal are the zealots of the wind primal Garuda, who now dwell in the canyons of Xelphatol. However they once lived in Tinolqa, "Blessed Forest", what we call the Twelveswood. They once possessed wings and were able to fly, but following their exile from the woods their young have been born without them, and thus have had to fashion dirigibles to travel by air. They raid the Shroud to fell trees in worship to their god, making them the sworn enemies of Gridania. The hostilities coming from the Ixal are unrelenting, while Gridania's hostilities are defensive in nature. The Kobold are a prolific race known as the children of the primal Titan. They inhabit the mountain O'Ghomoro. They are among the most advanced of the beastraces, lacking in overtly barbaric tendencies. They are reverent to their creator and hold ore and metals to be his precious manifestations. They are the masters of smelting and smithing his gifts, a knowledge they shared with the smiths of Limsa Lominsa as part of a peace treaty. They agreed that everything of the sea belongs to the men, and everything under the earth to the Kobold. When Limsa Lominsa violated the treaty the Kobolds became aggressive in self defense. The Sahagin are 'basically the most brutal of all pirates. They primarily live underwater, but they both possess and use ships to great effect. They head up the Serpent Reavers, which is a band of pirates that consists of both the five races and Sahagin. Of course, most of these pirates have been tempered by Leviathan, but supposedly not all of them.' - Merri Those are the facts, as far as I could surmise, sinking way too many hours into my research. And while we've got a good background on most of our beastmen, I can't help but feel like they're under represented. We know little objective history, and we know the opinions of the humans... but.. do we ever really get any insight from them? I recall during the story build-up/battle with Titan, Y'shtola mentions that Limsa Lominsa was in the wrong... but then it was just kinda hand waved and never brought up again! That's it? Why would you build that up and then just kinda shrug it off and go on with your crusade. The other races seem less offended though and more enraged. And maybe with good reason! There's at least one friendly Amalj'aa NPC who comments that he would be slaughtered on sight for nothing else than being an Amalj'aaa. (I assume he's a quest NPC later on?) The Ixal were thrown out of their home, Why? Who knows? And then they were wing clipped to boot. I just feel like there's a perspective here that we're not getting. And that's sad, because the kind of polarized morality I've seen in regards to our fellow, sentient men of Eorzea is a huge let down. Men and beastmen share a similar blood, and they've shown a capacity for the same intelligence and same emotions as the rest of us. They are part of our world, and we murder them because they don't look like us... [align=center]"What had they done that we would not have done in their place? God, what intelligence and persistence! What a facing of the incredible, just as those carven kinsmen and forbears had faced things only a little less incredible! Radiates, vegetables, monstrosities, star spawn - whatever they had been, they were men!" -H.P Lovecraft, At the Mountains of Madness[/align] Note, the above is not necessarily meant to be an appeal to your senses as players, or that "omg u guys genocide is wrong" or anything to that extent. It's a serious case of playing the Devil's Advocate because the subject interests me on a personal level. I admit it's a completely selfish interest, coming from a person who exclusively plays beast races (when playable). So don't misread/misunderstand it as some sort of "you are all terrible people" kinda post. But if it does make you think on the actions of the players in the story, I think that's a good thing. If I misunderstood anything, feel free to correct me! The lore for this game is very poorly chronicled. I've pieced together my findings from at least half a dozen different sites and in game quotes (some of which may or may not necessarily be reliable). I've also been awake for some 23 odd hours... And all of this was without even touching on the primals and the implications and complexities they bring with them! (which is a lot!) I want to know what other people think about this, as well as me picking for facts and such. Do you think the beastmen are redeemable? Or indeed that they even need to be redeemed? Do you think we'll ever live together? As equals? Or are they subhuman stains? Only fit to be wiped from the face of Eorzea? Do you have different thoughts ICly and OoCly? Enthrall me with your opinions!

I'm... not sure about the coeurl, but it's definitely justifiable in my opinion. It's like the people who train big cats in real life. When raised from youth to regard you, and handled with proper care by someone tempered with years of experience, they make obedient companions. (And I am NOT advocating anyone that is not a trained animal specialist ever lust after the idea of having one as a PET.) Coeurls are even implied to have some level of sentience/magic power, making it seem more likely they were able to form close bonds of trust with a humanoid. I'd personally be offended by anyone who said "I found it as a baby and then I just slapped a saddle on it" because, I actually have first hand knowledge of big cat training and it's nothing at all like that. But the idea doesn't offend me at all from a role playing perspective. In fact, I think it would be neat if someone opted to be a Coeurl tamer! There's some interesting hooks in that concept... I know other mounts have perfectly fine justification though. The legacy ones had quests, the chocobo is covered in game or is available by many other diverse means if you're not a main-story adherent. I haven't done the unicorn myself, but I'm sure there's a perfectly fine logic to it as well. I'd be interested in seeing what some people with the Ahriman mount! We know they can be summoned from the void by some of the bad guys, and the flavor item which grants them says as much: A metal tuning fork that, when struck, emits a low tone which opens a temporary rift in the void. Spooky!

Anything you say or put into the person's mind is going to be there no matter what you do. It's totally possible for people to be metagaming without even thinking about it. If they know the 'twist ending' they're gonna behave in a way that anticipates it. There are somethings you might need to say in advance, you just need to be clever about the way you disclose details, or have an 'inside guy' you trust to relay them. That's my experience as a Tabletop GM. Writing and rolling out an RP plot is similar on many accords. You just gotta ask yourself, what is the MAXIMUM amount you can disclose to people without giving away your intent. And how much it will really bother you that your players are metagaming douche-wads who read your play books while you're on a beer run.

Ixal is best musketeer I vote hyur. I dig the 'Will Turner' vibe he throws off.

1. When I play a female character, I get much more roleplay. Instantly with the same or other groups. Because women are more appealing, sad but true. People gravitate towards 'pairing' even if it's not in a sexual/romantic setting. 2. People don't want to roleplay with quiet bookish characters, or characters who are more neutral with their emotions. People want a character who over-reacts or is vibrant about X, Y, Z. With the bookish sorts it's because they're hard to engage. With a vibrant personality beneath the book is how they stay interesting or at least find a way to stay involved. With the neutral sort it's the same thing. How do you approach someone who doesn't react to anything? Indifferent characters exude a sense of 'leave me alone' which people tend to oblige. This is why they're usually given dynamic character roles, or are the stereotypical 'deadpan snarker'. You've really get the short end with both, because your character basically has 'I am a private character' painted on it, and makes it seem like you're an indifferent RPer. Whether that's your intent or not doesn't matter, it's the implication of being closed off, preoccupied, or uninterested that makes people wary OoCly. The best way to overcome this kinda prevalent stigma is, more or less, finding a good partner and doing something structured or planned between the two of you, but in a public setting where others can enter into it if they so chose. Seeing your character actively engaging someone else makes you, OoCly, seem like you are approachable, which makes your character more approachable. You expand the 'presence' of your character as a part of the world until it seems natural to approach them, rather than like a forced, mechanically interaction. (It's how I got away with inciting RP in the middle of nowhere places like Silithus and Stormpeaks... people eventually came looking for me!) It's a weird psychological process, but most RPers are shy by nature, even if they are a sociable person, and regardless of their character. They're very preoccupied with what's going on behind the screen. And due to the niche nature of the community, acting presumptuously often gets you labeled in a negative manner. That also kinda ties into question 5. People are shy, and they worry about presuming you want to RP with them. It may make them seem pushy. Or maybe they think you'll contact them if you want to RP with them again. They may very well be feeling the exact same way. Communication is an important part of every relationship! I admit it's a problem, even for me. My policy is sorta 'bother me whenever you feel like it, whatever I'm doing isn't important'. But I rarely ask of other people's attention because I assume they'll contact me if they need/desire my attention. (This is because of my tendency to over-talk to people. People who are accustomed to my nature know this, but it makes expanding circles very difficult) So yeah, communicating with people is important. And if they don't want to communicate with you when you put forth the effort and try, they're probably kinda crap people anyway.

I don't like tests like these. There's no context for a lot of the answers, and I work myself up over thinking them. I could write an essay for each and every question without ever reaching a conclusive yes or no answer to most of them... that being said. [align=center]ENFP[/align] "Hm, dunno if I'm really an all smiles and sunshine kinda person, but yeah, I guess I can see this. I'm a pretty mellow gu-" Notable ENFPs: Che Guevara, Fidel Castro, Muammar Gaddafi, Hugo Chavez [align=left]"O-oh..." [/align]

I find your dickitude to be an endearing quality. Better to be blunt and honest with people than run off and try to hide the shame of your opinion. Silly people~

As far as FF14 has been so far, so good. I've made it a point to say many times that I don't swear in polite company. However, I tend not to consider Linkshell chat at 4am polite company. Between LS comments though, I'd stopped to ask a question in the /shout channel. I'd then apparently forgotten this and resumed crafting. At some point someone started spamming the /shout channel with something stupid... Some trolling copypasta nicked from WoW or something to that effect. I was gonna casually complain about it in LS, and apparently forgot to switch it back and called them out in /shout.... woops!

this exercise in futility is finally done, thank the makers.

I'm a long time Werewolf player (New and Old, totes lovin W20), and off-an-on GM. I played a little OWoD Vampire and a bit of NWoD Mage, I'd like to try Promethean, but my passion is always the giant hairy monsters living among us ...or in my case a gangly, mangy coyote-esque abomination living in a garbage can. Right now I'm GM'ing CoC though, so it'll be a while before I'll have time in my RPG schedule for another Werewolf campaign. I'd like to do a Changing Breeds campaign, to go with the new W20 Printing. Because... you know... Weresharks. Like you need another reason.