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Royalist vs Monetarist [Spoilery]


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...however he's probably going to be evil and have the ala mhigans in the slave mines or something. Oh well. I can dream.

 

That's like saying "I'd really like it if Ul'dah made a complete 180 from what has been established from 2.0's storylines onward."

 

At the same time I really want Gridania to stop being racist as fuck but you know that's not about to happen.

 

To be fair, it is a new leader. There's not a better time than now to pull a 180.

 

Reveal that Lolo's been undermining the other members of the Syndicate. Reveal that he's working and putting effort into taking back the Ala Mhigan front. He'll have no funded rivals, he'll have overwhelming support of the people. The man can cloak-and-dagger his way into being the most loved person in the nation with a little elbow grease. Behind the scenes, he can sleep in a Scrooge McDuck vault of money and royal treasures while also getting the refugee scum out of his city.

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I would love the idea of having to go back and save your friends, but at the cost of throwing Ul'dah into chaos.

 

 

 

 

...however he's probably going to be evil and have the ala mhigans in the slave mines or something. Oh well. I can dream.

 

I could still see that happening. There could technically be "peace" in Ul'dah... but it wouldn't be a happy peace. Imagine this:

 

Lolorito continues quietly removing potential threats and consolidating his power base, culminating in the big power play people speak of. Either he reveals that Nanamo's dead and he's taking over the throne, or he assumes a sort of "regent" position and keeps Nanamo "sick" to use as a scapegoat and/or a tool to help keep the Ul supporters on his side. After all, if he says that a decree came down from Nanamo, who's going to argue with him?

 

At this point, he turns on the Monetarists. As mentioned, with the removal of the smaller businesses, they Syndicate members could very likely turn on each other and the whole structure collapses into infighting. If they're still around by the time Lolorito decides to remove them from the equation, they wouldn't have the power base needed to oppose him. At best, they could serve as a puppet council to give more "legitimacy" to his decrees because the "council" totally agreed with him.

 

This would solve the "biggest" issue of Ul'dah - the conflict between the two factions. There would likely be a few small uprisings here and there, but with the military and whatever remaining businesses under his control, it would be hard to mount a defense against Lolorito. So there would be peace in that regard, but whether he solves the other problems? Hard to say.

 

However, unseating him after he has his fingers in ALL THE PIES would not go well. Immense power vacuum. The chaos from that would be legendary as people either try to reclaim their pieces of the pie, or seek to make their very first grab for power.

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...however he's probably going to be evil and have the ala mhigans in the slave mines or something. Oh well. I can dream.

 

That's like saying "I'd really like it if Ul'dah made a complete 180 from what has been established from 2.0's storylines onward."

 

At the same time I really want Gridania to stop being racist as fuck but you know that's not about to happen.

 

To be fair, it is a new leader. There's not a better time than now to pull a 180.

 

Reveal that Lolo's been undermining the other members of the Syndicate. Reveal that he's working and putting effort into taking back the Ala Mhigan front. He'll have no funded rivals, he'll have overwhelming support of the people. The man can cloak-and-dagger his way into being the most loved person in the nation with a little elbow grease. Behind the scenes, he can sleep in a Scrooge McDuck vault of money and royal treasures while also getting the refugee scum out of his city.

 

The problem is that would be an ass pull of such immense proportions that it'd completely wreck any suspended disbelief the storyline might have left at this point.

 

The man has been established as a ruthless person who outright puts people out of business for the lulz (CUL questline).

 

It'd be about as much a 180 as Merlwyb actually taking care of her problems with the beast tribes diplomatically without fucking them over or Gridania in general deciding to war with the elementals.

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The problem is that would be an ass pull of such immense proportions that it'd completely wreck any suspended disbelief the storyline might have left at this point.

 

The man has been established as a ruthless person who outright puts people out of business for the lulz (CUL questline).

 

It'd be about as much a 180 as Merlwyb actually taking care of her problems with the beast tribes diplomatically without fucking them over or Gridania in general deciding to war with the elementals.

 

How is it an asspull? It's a new person who is scheming to some end. We get a whole cutscene of him being... something... following 2.55. We know there's something cutting out the legs from under lesser consortiums. We know he controls the Brass Blades. He's got a chance to outright seize unchallenged power, and do it in front of everyone, and get away with it. You're telling me that's out of character for him? He'll win, completely and utterly, and the only people who would oppose him would be ruined by him first.

 

I'm not saying he grows a heart. I'm saying he makes enough of a show with public PR to trick everyone into thinking he does while he sleeps on the riches of all of the people he betrayed and killed to get there.

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The problem is that would be an ass pull of such immense proportions that it'd completely wreck any suspended disbelief the storyline might have left at this point.

 

The man has been established as a ruthless person who outright puts people out of business for the lulz (CUL questline).

 

It'd be about as much a 180 as Merlwyb actually taking care of her problems with the beast tribes diplomatically without fucking them over or Gridania in general deciding to war with the elementals.

 

How is it an asspull? It's a new person who is scheming to some end. We get a whole cutscene of him being... something... following 2.55. We know there's something cutting out the legs from under lesser consortiums. We know he controls the Brass Blades. He's got a chance to outright seize unchallenged power, and do it in front of everyone, and get away with it. You're telling me that's out of character for him? He'll win, completely and utterly, and the only people who would oppose him would be ruined by him first.

 

I'm not saying he grows a heart. I'm saying he makes enough of a show with public PR to trick everyone into thinking he does while he sleeps on the riches of all of the people he betrayed and killed to get there.

 

Yes I agree. I don't think Lolorito is a nice person, however nice people don't make for good leaders.

 

I think it's quite possible they show that his power, cunning, and ruthlessness can help the issues that have been drowning Ul'dah.

 

Though at what cost is the obvious and fun question.

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This thread has shown me that Uldah rp, and lore is obsessed with cloak and dagger game of thrones stuff.  Time to leave for Limsa.

 

Yes. These things tend to be popular lately.

 

Limsa could work, but Otto's style of economic warfare won't be as solid in a place where people are inclined to just kill you and take your stuff and make it look like the vessel carrying your goods was a Garlean ship.

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Ul'dah is actually quite a bit with cloak and dagger.

 

Lolorito has his hand in the Alacran, a criminal organization. (They are in the Gladiator quests as well as in the Paladin Sultansworn quests [i think they were named as inserted into the Sultansworn] as well as the Pugilist quests).

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This thread has shown me that Uldah rp, and lore is obsessed with cloak and dagger game of thrones stuff.  Time to leave for Limsa.

 

Yes. These things tend to be popular lately.

 

Limsa could work, but Otto's style of economic warfare won't be as solid in a place where people are inclined to just kill you and take your stuff and make it look like the vessel carrying your goods was a Garlean ship.

 

Politics in tv is really popular, especially the dirty kind. But your also right people will straight kill Otto in Limsa. I wonder if I could write a shitty story about him learning lessons in Limsa.

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Politics in tv is really popular, especially the dirty kind.  But your also right people will straight kill Otto in Limsa.  I wonder if I could write a shitty story about him learning lessons in Limsa.

 

I'd read it!

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Ul'dah is actually quite a bit with cloak and dagger.

 

Lolorito has his hand in the Alacran, a criminal organization. (They are in the Gladiator quests as well as in the Paladin Sultansworn quests [i think they were named as inserted into the Sultansworn] as well as the Pugilist quests).

 

They also show up in a THM quest or two, iirc.

 

 

Politics in tv is really popular, especially the dirty kind.  But your also right people will straight kill Otto in Limsa.  I wonder if I could write a shitty story about him learning lessons in Limsa.

 

I'd read it!

 

I would as well!

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Yes. These things tend to be popular lately.

Hasn't Ul'dah always been cloak and dagger?  :-X

 

I mean in a more general sense than FFXIV. Otto's right that many of the big, talked-about pieces of media of late tend to involve politics and double-dealing and treachery therein.

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Yes. These things tend to be popular lately.

Hasn't Ul'dah always been cloak and dagger?  :-X

 

I mean in a more general sense than FFXIV. Otto's right that many of the big, talked-about pieces of media of late tend to involve politics and double-dealing and treachery therein.

Probably because Lolorito made a good power play against Nanamo. Oh "than" FFXIV.

 

But it's what happens when you have people with money and power. They want more of it. Preferably both.

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I mean in a more general sense than FFXIV. Otto's right that many of the big, talked-about pieces of media of late tend to involve politics and double-dealing and treachery therein.

Doesn't really seem any different to me... but I haven't read or seen Game of Thrones so maybe I am missing something.

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Yes. These things tend to be popular lately.

Hasn't Ul'dah always been cloak and dagger?  :-X

 

I mean in a more general sense than FFXIV. Otto's right that many of the big, talked-about pieces of media of late tend to involve politics and double-dealing and treachery therein.

 

I would argue that historically that has always been the case.

 

Most of the ancient works of literature we still find relevant/interesting involve politics, treachery, etc etc.

 

People just like it. From the Saga's of troy, to the words of Machiavelli, to the writings of Shakespeare. I think recently, new genres such as Sci-Fi and fantasy have allowed people to explore new venues, or revitalize old ones (exploring space instead of mysterious islands and continents, like the old adventure novels) but it's not like human nature has changed.

 

We like betrayal, we like sin, and we like dirty deeds. Just who we are.

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How is it an asspull? It's a new person who is scheming to some end. We get a whole cutscene of him being... something... following 2.55. We know there's something cutting out the legs from under lesser consortiums. We know he controls the Brass Blades. He's got a chance to outright seize unchallenged power, and do it in front of everyone, and get away with it. You're telling me that's out of character for him? He'll win, completely and utterly, and the only people who would oppose him would be ruined by him first.

 

I'm not saying he grows a heart. I'm saying he makes enough of a show with public PR to trick everyone into thinking he does while he sleeps on the riches of all of the people he betrayed and killed to get there.

You're making it sound like he cares about PR.

 

He doesn't. Otherwise the whole Chefsbane thing would have never happened, otherwise people wouldn't use his name in fear even PRIOR (Ul'dah questline, around level 13, before the Traders' Spurn thing - likely more moments as well but I can't remember them off hand) to this development.

 

I'll do you one better - show me foreshadowing that he actually does care about his reputation because right now I'm not seeing it.

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We like betrayal, we like sin, and we like dirty deeds. Just who we are.

 

The expression and interpretation thereof varies, and varies greatly. How they vary tell us a great deal more than the essentialist bits.

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It's more like "What keeps Lolorito from have the -power- he wants vs making sure the gorram city-state doesn't go into civil war?"

 

No use having power when what you're ruling is in the shitter, which a civil war would do.

 

Losing money to pay for funds etc. No bueno.

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You're making it sound like he cares about PR.

 

He doesn't. Otherwise the whole Chefsbane thing would have never happened, otherwise people wouldn't use his name in fear even PRIOR (Ul'dah questline, around level 13, before the Traders' Spurn thing - likely more moments as well but I can't remember them off hand) to this development.

 

I'll do you one better - show me foreshadowing that he actually does care about his reputation because right now I'm not seeing it.

Why does PR have to be positive?  Perhaps he's established just the reputation he wants.  That doesn't mean he couldn't turn that fearsome reputation toward something that wins support. 

 

I think the arch of such a leader from rise toward holding power can take quite unexpected turns!

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It's a minor derail, so I'll spoil my tangent.

 

 

 

I wonder how long the dev team knew this was their finale. I know way back after the tease for Shiva they started talking about the beastmen that would be summoning her, and there was a rough skin that actually got into the game that ended up being used for the Vanu.

 

uAITm8R.png

 

We know now that that's a rough use of the Vanu, but that's been in the game since 2.1? 2.2? I remember Yoshi and the dev team saying the new beast race would be something entirely new. Were they planning on having the Vanu summon Shiva?

 

If so, when did that idea get pulled? How long did the devs know 2.55 would end with multiple implied deaths? The cloak and dagger stuff might have been spur of the moment, or might have been planned since pre-ARR.

 

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