Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion!

[Zyrusticae]

I can forgive you your ignorance, because it seems you just don't follow very many games

 

And I will forgive you your assumptions, but would greatly encourage you to watch your wording and think about how you might be coming off to others, lest people start to think you are part of the problem that's been plaguing the RPC lately.

Well, that's not terribly helpful.

 

I suppose it's worth noting that ignorance itself is not necessarily a negative trait, but rather something that simply "is". However, when you make blind assertions that are so easily provably wrong, I have to wonder how much investment is even worth putting into this conversation. It doesn't help when you seem to possess so much self-righteous conviction, to the point of condescendingly putting excessive emphasis on a single phrase that doesn't even help your case.

 

But Foxberry is right, and unfortunately my tone is also less than ideal when it comes to things I am passionate about, so for that, I do apologize. My point remains the same regardless - a huge part of the problem with the Au Ra in my mind can be traced directly to the weak character creation. I strongly suggest checking out the character creation of the games I mentioned for reference as to what good character creation actually looks like, and just how common it has become.

[SessionZero]

I can forgive you your ignorance, because it seems you just don't follow very many games

 

And I will forgive you your assumptions, but would greatly encourage you to watch your wording and think about how you might be coming off to others, lest people start to think you are part of the problem that's been plaguing the RPC lately.

Well, that's not terribly helpful.

 

I suppose it's worth noting that ignorance itself is not necessarily a negative trait, but rather something that simply "is". However, when you make blind assertions that are so easily provably wrong, I have to wonder how much investment is even worth putting into this conversation. It doesn't help when you seem to possess so much self-righteous conviction, to the point of condescendingly putting excessive emphasis on a single phrase that doesn't even help your case.

 

But Foxberry is right,  and unfortunately my tone is also less than ideal when it comes to things I am passionate about, so for that, I do apologize. My point remains the same regardless - a huge part of the problem with the Au Ra in my mind can be traced directly to the weak character creation. I strongly suggest checking out the character creation of the games I mentioned for reference as to what good character creation actually looks like, and just how common it has become.

 

First of all, you accusing me of condescension is laughably ironic. Second of all, despite your assumptions, I have played every game you listed save Aion and Phantasy Star 2. In fact, Dragon's Dogma is one of my favorite games.

 

That said, a robust character creator does not a good game make. I can forgive FFXIV's comparable lack of options because the rest of the game is fantastic and there's still enough customization that relatively unique characters are a possibility. APB, EVE, Soul Calibur, and BDO can throw all the frilly customization options they want at me, it's not going to make them playable games, or make me think they're worth my time.

 

Bottom line is, if you don't like the Au Ra, don't make one. It's a simple concept that does not require so much negativity and snark directed at the people who actually like what we were given, or, god forbid, have a favorable/neutral opinion on the whole thing.

[Dravus]

I wouldn't be opposed to a more in-depth character creation but I feel as though it'd be largely wasted on FFXIV's community. You need only look at how rare Elezen and Roegadyn are. I would love more variety in terms of faces though - and more idle poses to help reflect a character's personality better.

[Hyrist]

Square Enix makes no qualms about its style. In many ways, and in many explanations, it has made statements to the effect that it is not in the same league as many of its competitors, and its true when you consider the blow factors.

 

- The FFXIV Team is an in-house development team with its own Publisher (Square Enix) It is only beholden to its direct investors, that invest in the company, not the project. This allows it to preserve a bit of artistic and stylistic agency. This is apparent in a lot of its development choices, including maintaining its Pay-to-Play model.

 

- FFXIV host a rather robust back-up system. The character data is backed up to the storage drives at a rate higher than most MMOs on average. The side effect to this, is of sourced the heightened processing load for each amount of character data that's backed up. A lot of MMOs sacrifice that micro-level of stability for the sake of saving processor power.

 

- FFXIV is one of rare MMOs to ever venture multiplatform. This comes at its own cost - concern for load times on Consoles as well as preserving an equivalent experience across them.

 

 

Each game, and each developer and Publisher comes with its Pros and Cons. In terms of Au Ra design, and any design feature in this game, you are going to be dealing with typical Square Enix tropes. Which, in my opinion, happen to be quite better than most companies (Blizzard, EA, NCSoft all come with sticking points with me that push me away from many of their games.) It's a matter of 'what you can accept' as often discussing the issue on a conscious design choice by Square Enix rarely nets change, and airing such reservations habitually only serves to disturb those who find or are attempting to find contentment in the provided content.

 

It's ok to push for improvements, just be wary of how, and how hard. In Square Enix's case, it's also 'where' that becomes a consideration.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If I may speak on a matter of personal opinion - I actually find it more enthralling to see what players do with limited resources in Character Creator, than the massive character creation systems on par with Aion.

 

When there is so much variety, the attention to subtle differences are often lost in favor of something that is extremely variant or referential. Where as with a limited character creation I often find that people focus on trying to create something that is both unique and comfortable, bringing out the attention to detail (such as clothing, accessories, makeup, etc.) that emphasis ownership of the character.

 

But that is simply a personal impression. Other people's experience may vastly differ. But in spite of the initial thrill of having an extensive character creator to play with (which I often tinker with in single player games a lot) I often feel much more fulfilled and comfortable with the more limited, yet still variant options I get from FFXIV's character creator.

 

Often when make a character with FFXIV's creator, I'm pretty happy once I've finalized my decision, where in contrast, I've had to go back a couple times in Dragon Age Inquisition because my initially 'unique' face just didn't settle well with me in the long term.

[ArmachiA]

Yo, if you don't want SE to make characters that are glorified Miqote, stop rolling Miqote.

 

There, problem solved.

 

The playerbase did this to themselves.

[Darien Cadell]

Bottom line is, if you don't like the Au Ra, don't make one. It's a simple concept that does not require so much negativity and snark directed at the people who actually like what we were given, or, god forbid, have a favorable/neutral opinion on the whole thing.

 

I'm of the "not a huge fan" crowd and won't be rolling one. I played with the character creator and just wasn't into it. To me, they all look the same, and the screenshots thread just proves it in my mind. You see one female and one male, you've seen all of the entire race, excepting slight variations in color palette and hair length. I also find that's true of all not-Hyur, thank you clan differentiation. However, I find most of the racial designs appealing, so I'm happy to see them copy-pasted and recolored all over the world. It's delightful.

 

Despite my shrugging over the new race, I am pleasantly surprised by how passionately the people who do love them absolutely adore them, and how many of those people there are. That makes me think SE definitely got something right in their core design of the race, no matter my own aesthetic tastes, and I'll be happy to see lots of them in-game being played by people who love playing them. I'm sure that quality will shine through as exuberance, at least until the newness wears off.

[Zyrusticae]

First of all, you accusing me of condescension is laughably ironic. Second of all, despite your assumptions, I have played every game you listed save Aion and Phantasy Star 2. In fact, Dragon's Dogma is one of my favorite games.

 

Then why in the world would you make the assertion that a character creator appeals primarily to a minority RPer demographic when so many games include them that do not have anything resembling a large RPer player base (well, actually, as a point of fact we are a tiny minority in every game we play, making the assertion rather absurd on its face)? I just do not understand.

 

Your point regarding my condescending tone is well-taken, but then, I'm not the one posting things like this:

>(with a few exceptions)

>a few exceptions

>few exceptions

>exceptions

 

I can read, thank you very much, and when I disagree with a point and provide inadequate evidence you can do better in pointing that out than posting things like this that better belong on 4chan.

 

That said, a robust character creator does not a good game make. I can forgive FFXIV's comparable lack of options because the rest of the game is fantastic and there's still enough customization that relatively unique characters are a possibility. APB, EVE, Soul Calibur, and BDO can throw all the frilly customization options they want at me, it's not going to make them playable games, or make me think they're worth my time.

 

Bottom line is, if you don't like the Au Ra, don't make one. It's a simple concept that does not require so much negativity and snark directed at the people who actually like what we were given, or, god forbid, have a favorable/neutral opinion on the whole thing.

 

Key word: "relative".

 

Your opinion is noted. It's just, as I have been making very clear, my opinion is completely different. Character creation is absolutely #1 on my list of priorities, above and beyond literally everything else. EVERYTHING else. It's not like I'm in a small minority, either, as a hugely significant proportion of the PSO2 player base plays that game largely for the character creation and customization, and the actual game part is just a nice bonus (particularly as, to be honest, the game itself is not that great and becomes pretty repetitive pretty quickly). There's a reason it has one of the highest fan art counts on pixiv.net.

 

Part of the reason for this difference in priorities is probably the fact that, as a genderqueer individual who plays exclusively androgynous characters, it is so difficult for me to find games where I can actually play the characters I want to play. For someone who's always being catered to and can make do with whatever options are being thrown their way because they're the default target audience, of course their priorities would be completely different from my own. That difference is to be expected, really. The problem is that I am in the minority group, an extreme minority group at that, and so I get to suffer again and again and again as I am marginalized and ignored and treated as though I don't exist. You don't have that problem. Good for you. Surely you can understand why I am so passionate about this subject now?

 

So at this point, I have to confess: I consider all fans of the Au Ra to be my enemies. They are pushing the direction in places I don't want to be, so of course I am going to push back, as futile and fruitless as it may be.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to a more in-depth character creation but I feel as though it'd be largely wasted on FFXIV's community. You need only look at how rare Elezen and Roegadyn are. I would love more variety in terms of faces though - and more idle poses to help reflect a character's personality better.

 

Elezen and Roegadyn being rare have absolutely no bearing on the myriad smaller tweaks possible with body sliders. Even if Miqo'te were still the most common race there would be far more variety than we have now. Pear-shaped, V-shaped, rectangle-shaped, all kinds of body shapes that aren't represented in the game as of now, in addition to, say, adding bulk and mass to a character's arms and shoulders to represent that they use those muscles a lot, and so on and so forth. People use these options. They're worth having.

 

Square Enix makes no qualms about its style. In many ways, and in many explanations, it has made statements to the effect that it is not in the same league as many of its competitors, and its true when you consider the blow factors.

 

- The FFXIV Team is an in-house development team with its own Publisher (Square Enix) It is only beholden to its direct investors, that invest in the company, not the project. This allows it to preserve a bit of artistic and stylistic agency. This is apparent in a lot of its development choices, including maintaining its Pay-to-Play model.

 

- FFXIV host a rather robust back-up system. The character data is backed up to the storage drives at a rate higher than most MMOs on average. The side effect to this, is of sourced the heightened processing load for each amount of character data that's backed up. A lot of MMOs sacrifice that micro-level of stability for the sake of saving processor power.

 

- FFXIV is one of rare MMOs to ever venture multiplatform. This comes at its own cost - concern for load times on Consoles as well as preserving an equivalent experience across them.

 

 

Each game, and each developer and Publisher comes with its Pros and Cons. In terms of Au Ra design, and any design feature in this game, you are going to be dealing with typical Square Enix tropes. Which, in my opinion, happen to be quite better than most companies (Blizzard, EA, NCSoft all come with sticking points with me that push me away from many of their games.) It's a matter of 'what you can accept' as often discussing the issue on a conscious design choice by Square Enix rarely nets change, and airing such reservations habitually only serves to disturb those who find or are attempting to find contentment in the provided content.

 

It's ok to push for improvements, just be wary of how, and how hard. In Square Enix's case, it's also 'where' that becomes a consideration.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If I may speak on a matter of personal opinion - I actually find it more enthralling to see what players do with limited resources in Character Creator, than the massive character creation systems on par with Aion.

 

When there is so much variety, the attention to subtle differences are often lost in favor of something that is extremely variant or referential. Where as with a limited character creation I often find that people focus on trying to create something that is both unique and comfortable, bringing out the attention to detail (such as clothing, accessories, makeup, etc.) that emphasis ownership of the character.

 

But that is simply a personal impression. Other people's experience may vastly differ. But in spite of the initial thrill of having an extensive character creator to play with (which I often tinker with in single player games a lot) I often feel much more fulfilled and comfortable with the more limited, yet still variant options I get from FFXIV's character creator.

 

Often when make a character with FFXIV's creator, I'm pretty happy once I've finalized my decision, where in contrast, I've had to go back a couple times in Dragon Age Inquisition because my initially 'unique' face just didn't settle well with me in the long term.

 

 

I can respect your opinion, but your latter point is just completely baffling to me.

 

Look, my problem is that there is absolutely no way for me to create a character that REALLY stands out when her silhouette is exactly the same as every other female 'qote out there, with the only exception of her breasts being slightly smaller. And the silhouette is the single most important thing in character design. I cannot comprehend, nay, refuse to comprehend the idea that compromising that aspect of the character can result in something better. It simply does not compute.

 

I think what you're getting hung up on is simply the art style of those other games, and that if FFXIV had a stronger character creation suite you would be changing your tune. But that is merely a hypothesis.

 

Yo, if you don't want SE to make characters that are glorified Miqote, stop rolling Miqote.

 

There, problem solved.

 

The playerbase did this to themselves.

 

This makes absolutely no sense.

 

Why do they need to cannibalize Miqo'te players with another Miqo'te-like race? Explain that one to me.

[Warren Castille]

Does this require explanation? SE sees people adopting the delicate miqo'te female race by the bushel, so they're using that data to determine what people want in their characters.

 

People aren't playing Roe Female. Why make something in that design? We've had this discussion over and over again here. You are literally part of the data they're citing because you play Miqo F. You are literally part of the reason why Au Ra F is slight. You want big fearsome women? Play the existing ones.

 

Though, by your own admission, everyone who likes Au Ra is your "enemy." What are you doing in this thread, exactly?

[Wymsical]

That's my real qualm with some of the complaints; an implication that the race is objectively disappointing and adds nothing new. Finding out about Au Ra really put a spring in my step for coming back to the game. None of the other races had quite the look I wanted and I wasn't looking forward to finding something I could settle for. I love the Au Ra female design and my one real disappointment with them is horns being tied to faces. Otherwise, I'm quite happy.

 

Now of course I'd love for other people to also get a character whose look they absolutely adore too! I'm just very happy with this race and sometimes I'm just a little disappointed when a lot of negativity appears in every Au Ra thread. I really wish it wasn't being painted like being happy with Au Ra is a bad thing in some ways.

 

Edit: Also, I genuinely believe the only real similarity between Au Ra and Miqo'te is a similar body type and face style, and their actual facial options have a very different tone to them.

[Warren Castille]

I'll reiterate my point: If you're playing a short flat miqo'te, you don't get to be upset about Au Ra being short and flat.

[Zyrusticae]

No.

 

I can be upset because I already have a character who is short and flat, and I don't need to make another character who is short and flat but has scales and horns.

 

This is besides the point that they could have enough variety in the sliders such that 'short and flat' is not a racial trait at all, but instead an individual trait... you know, like it is IRL.

[Warren Castille]

Except SE openly stated that they made the female demure because majority of the people playing females were choosing those options.

 

Are you similarly upset if the sequel to a video game gives you more of the same? By your own admission you don't like the race, or apparently the people playing it. What are you still doing in this thread besides arguing?

[Jaran]

"So at this point, I have to confess: I consider all fans of the Au Ra to be my enemies. They are pushing the direction in places I don't want to be, so of course I am going to push back, as futile and fruitless as it may be."

 

Uhh, what? I don't know exactly what we've done to incur your wrath by simply enjoying a race that SE brought to the table. 

I don't play females, so I probably don't have a horse in this particular race, but still I enjoy seeing what other people have poured their hearts into creating with what they've been given.

[g0ne]

I asked everyone to stop and cool down many posts back. This is still going on. We got a warning from Freelance. 

 

Just stop, please. Why does every thread recently have to go aggressive?

 

It's going to get closed if this keeps up. But it's not like that's going to stop anyone. Another thread remotely related to Au Ra pops up again and this same cycle will start all over again. 

 

Go dunk yourself into a bucket of ice water! Take deep breaths. Calm down, people. Please.

[Hyrist]

I can respect your opinion, but your latter point is just completely baffling to me.

 

Look, my problem is that there is absolutely no way for me to create a character that REALLY stands out when her silhouette is exactly the same as every other female 'qote out there, with the only exception of her breasts being slightly smaller. And the silhouette is the single most important thing in character design. I cannot comprehend, nay, refuse to comprehend the idea that compromising that aspect of the character can result in something better. It simply does not compute.

 

I think what you're getting hung up on is simply the art style of those other games, and that if FFXIV had a stronger character creation suite you would be changing your tune. But that is merely a hypothesis.

 

Your Hypothesis, in speaking for my preferences an opinion, I can confirm that is only half correct.

 

I am hung up on the art style, of FFXIV - as I had for FFXI before it. That is not to say that Aion, and other games did not have fantastic art style - often it is the artistic style of a game that initially draws me towards it.

 

But a robust character system can, and often does detracts or detracts from that.

 

Case in point.

 

What I recommend, as self training to allow yourself to enjoy the game more, Is that you focus less on character's profile, and more on the details. A profile can easily be variant depending on height, tail style, hair style, and clothing - individuality can be found in the character's use of color and weaponry. Try to look beyond the simple things like Tribe, Horn style, and profile. 

 

A good lesson to learn in life, actually, looking beyond the surface? I won't be naive enough to pretend that Square Enix has that as part of their design plans, but it is a good accidental lesson learned from the limited mechanics, at least.

 

Anyways, I've said my peace, and in a certain light we've gotten quite off topic.

 

 

In terms of its own Context, Au Ra have no fewer options than a Miqo'te in terms of design. The massive influx of characters of that Race can more or less be ICly ignored, we do not know how many of them are actually going to be Roleplayers.

 

As an observation, I've seen quite a few variants in Female Au Ra design, utilizing all of the Horn/face styles available to them and this isn't including the hair styles that will be available for an Auri via everyone's favorite hair dresser. I'm not concerned about whether or not Lin will be able to look 'unique' in the crowd of new Au Ra to appear in the game come Heavensward.

[Zyrusticae]

Except SE openly stated that they made the female demure because majority of the people playing females were choosing those options.

 

Are you similarly upset if the sequel to a video game gives you more of the same? By your own admission you don't like the race, or apparently the people playing it. What are you still doing in this thread besides arguing?

 

First of all, criticism is not against the rules and I don't see anywhere in this thread where it was stated that only positive posts are allowed.

 

Secondly, I obviously disagree with SE's decision and question their reasoning as well. I don't see the point of using existing races to determine the direction of new ones to the point where the races can become almost interchangeable (and note that there is heavily sexist element to this as well - Elezen males are not that popular but the male Au Ra still hew closer to them than they do male Hyurs or Miqo'te who are far more popular).

 

And yes, I know the Au Ra have their own facial options. Again, a point of contention here is that they could easily have added some of those face options to the existing races and they would easily have fit in.

 

"So at this point, I have to confess: I consider all fans of the Au Ra to be my enemies. They are pushing the direction in places I don't want to be, so of course I am going to push back, as futile and fruitless as it may be."

 

Uhh, what? I don't know exactly what we've done to incur your wrath by simply enjoying a race that SE brought to the table. 

I don't play females, so I probably don't have a horse in this particular race, but still I enjoy seeing what other people have poured their hearts into creating with what they've been given.

 

You are supporting a direction I do not enjoy. It's really that simple.

 

Note that being my enemy does not mean I wish ill upon you. It simply means that you are an opposing force to my own whims, and as such I am not going to be on your side.

 

I asked everyone to stop and cool down many posts back. This is still going on. We got a warning from Freelance. 

 

Just stop, please. Why does every thread recently have to go aggressive?

 

It's going to get closed if this keeps up. But it's not like that's going to stop anyone. Another thread remotely related to Au Ra pops up again and this same cycle will start all over again. 

 

Go dunk yourself into a bucket of ice water! Take deep breaths. Calm down, people. Please.

 

Okay, this is getting out of hand.

 

Everything is fine. There is disagreement on a number of points but disagreement is not a problem in and of itself. For that matter, if there is an actual problem I trust the mods to handle it themselves, and they do not need backseat moderators to do their job for them.

[FreelanceWizard]

Right. As predicted, we're done here.

 

Let me reiterate a few things, since very soon there will be noticeable consequences for them. Saying someone is "part of the problem on the RPC" is not okay. Calling people your enemies is not helpful, nor is saying they're ignorant or condescending. I'm aware that XIV's character creator is one of our hot button issues, but there's absolutely no reason to get aggressive.

 

If you want to discuss character generators generally, Warren's created a new thread for that. If you want to discuss Au Ra lore and concepts, feel free to create a new thread for that. But this thread? This is closed.

 

#magicAdminHat

[Warren Castille]

For the sake of not locking this thread, can we get this one locked with stupid arguments instead?