How privileged is your character?

[Blue]

Taking inspiration from the "Privilege Walk" (see a demonstration video here):

 

 

Instead of steps, let's give our characters points. Add one point for every "step forward", and subtract one point for every "step back". Try to keep this strictly related to your character and not to your real self, so to avoid any political discussion (which would put this thread in Off-Topic, instead of RP-related stuff).

 

Obviously, try to adapt the questions to the in-game enivornment. "United States" would be "Eorzea", "college" would be "high education" from a private teacher your parents would hire, etc. For the sake of most I've taken the time and re-edited the questions to better adapt them to the in-game environment.

 

Looking forward to hear your scores, I'll be doing my own for my characters soon, too!

 

Questions:

* If your parents worked nights and weekends to support your family, take one step back.

* If you are able to move through the world without fear of sexual assault, take one step forward.

* If you can show affection for your romantic partner in public without fear of ridicule or violence, take one step forward. (Think of inter-racial couples, rare by lore, living areas where same-race couples are the norm)

* If you have ever been diagnosed as having a physical or mental illness/disability, take one step back.

* If the primary language spoken in your household growing up was not Eorzean, take one step back.

* If you came from a supportive family environment take one step forward.

* If you have ever tried to change your speech or mannerisms to gain credibility, take one step back.

* If you can go anywhere in the country, and easily find the kinds of products (clothes, ingredients, face paint) that are most used in your ethnic community, take one step forward.

* If you were embarrassed about your clothes or house while growing up, take one step back.

* If you can make mistakes and not have people attribute your behavior to flaws in your racial/gender group, take one step forward.

* If you can legally marry the person you love, regardless of where you live, take one step forward. (This question regards mostly Seekers of the Sun in a tribal society)

* If you were born in one of the main City-States (Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, Ul'dah, Ishgard), take one step forward.

* If you or your parents have ever gone through a divorce, take one step back.

* If you felt like you had adequate access to enough food growing up, take one step forward.

* If you are reasonably sure you would be hired for a job based on your ability and qualifications, take one step forward. (Think of lower-classes Ishgardians very rarely being allowed to take position in higher ranks of the army, etc.)

* If you would never think twice about calling the police when trouble occurs, take one step forward. (Think of the Brass Blades, think of the Will of the Elementals)

* If you can see a doctor whenever you feel the need, take one step forward.

* If you feel comfortable being emotionally expressive/open, take one step forward.

* If you have ever been the only person of your race/gender/socio-economic status/ sexual orientation in a classroom or workplace setting, please take one step back.

* If you took out loans for your education take one step backward. (If you had to rely on someone else to pay your education for you, in general)

* If you get time off for your religious holidays, take one step forward.

* If you had a job during your education and professional formation years, take one step back. (Or if you had to give up education to work as a child, too)

* If you feel comfortable walking home alone at night, take one step forward.

* If you have ever traveled outside the Eorzea (for leisure, or for work), take one step forward.

* If you have ever felt like there was NOT adequate or accurate representation of your racial group, sexual orientation group, gender group, and/or disability group in the traditions and mannerisms of Eorzea, take one step back. (Think of stereotypes, the disapproval of certain stereotypes, being stared at for being a Miqo'te dragoon, being taken as a whore for being a Nuhn, etc.)

* If you feel confident that your parents would be able to financially help/support you if you were going through a financial hardship, take one step forward.

* If you have ever been bullied or made fun of based on something that you can’t change, take one step back.

* If there were more than 50 books in your house growing up, take one step forward.

* If you were able to study the culture or the history of your ancestors while being educated in Eorzea take one step forward. (Probably not a bunch of Garlean traditions books in Eorzea, etc.)

* If your parents or guardians received higher education, take one step forward.

* If you ever went on a family vacation (aka, being able to travel just for leisure), take one step forward.

* If you can buy new clothes or go out to dinner when you want to, take one step forward.

* If you were ever offered a job because of your association with a friend or family member, take one step forward.

* If one of your parents was ever laid off or unemployed not by choice, take one step back. (Maybe adventurers cannot be fired, but they can get hurt and force to retire. Also, not everyone is a fighter for a living. In fact, I believe the majority of the population is not able to fight, even though the playerbase is. ICly there'd be more common citizens than there are adventurers/soldiers etc.)

* If you were ever uncomfortable about a joke or a statement you overheard related to your race (them Miq-hores), ethnicity (damnable Duskwights), gender, appearance, or sexual orientation but felt unsafe to confront the situation, take one step back.

[Virella]

Uuuh.

 

These questions seem really out of place for Eorzea though. I'm just saying! Might want to adjust some things. Not to mention, some of the questions really do not seem to hold any validation here in Eorzea. Besides that, being the oh so woefully privileged in Ul'dah is probably far from what it in Limsa ect.

 

* If you were born in the United States, take one step forward. <-----

[111]

Is this thread a joke, or is it serious.

 

Poe's law is very strong here.

[Blue]

As I said, some things need to be adapted. In this case, the United States would be Eorzea, since these questions were made specifically for the US citizens, I could see foreign people in Eorzea having some forms of discrimination (as per the reaction-to-Au Ra-invasion thread).

 

But okay, I thought it'd be an interesting view on the RP aspect. Please close the thread if you feel it's too uncomfortable of a topic. I can always keep this among my friends.

[111]

As I said, some things need to be adapted. In this case, the United States would be Eorzea, since these questions were made specifically for the US citizens, I could see foreign people in Eorzea having some forms of discrimination (as per the reaction-to-Au Ra-invasion thread).

 

But okay, I thought it'd be an interesting view on the RP aspect. Please close the thread if you feel it's too uncomfortable of a topic. I can always keep this among my friends.

 

Probably safest to just keep it to your friends.

 

Nothing good will come of this thread, for a variety of reasons, but I appreciate your intention at least.

[Grott]

Uuuh.

 

These questions seem really out of place for Eorzea though. I'm just saying!

 

^ Yeah, seriously.

 

My character is an Ala Mhigan refugee soldier of fortune. I don't think he's looking for make-up that fits his complexion. And skin color really plays no part in Eorzean social politics to begin with. (You could make an argument for Duskwights being stereotyped negatively, I guess, but other than that it doesn't come up too often in actual NPC lore. Sometimes someone will complain about someone of another race, but we see more races being cool with others than not.) 

 

But asking someone in my character's shoes, or most other character's shoes for that matter, if they were made fun of for how they dressed growing up, if they went on a family vacation, or if they got time off for religious holidays is a little goofy.

 

Some of this should be rephrased, and some of it completely re-written for an Eorzean survey. I love a good character survey, but this one needs a lot of work. Plus it opens a whole new can of worms of people talking about/getting offended by RL perspectives on privilege. I play FFXIV and RP to avoid discussions like these.

[Blue]

I honestly find it odd that we see all kinds of "your characters' fears" "what your characters likes" "your characters' A-B-C-etc." and that privilege instead is a no-no topic. Privilege is something that exists in Eorzea as well, and I think refusing to acknowledge it is a bit off. We're trying to portrait the real lives of fictional characters here, so it's inevitable that even privileges problems will come out. Maybe you simply haven't seen it brought up into your RP yet, but this is not a reason to not think through about your character's background and see if he/she was bullied or discriminated in the past or has grown into a difficult environment. It's a part of life.

 

Maybe don't post it if you want, but I recommend to everyone to give it a little insight for their character, I'm sure it'd end up explaining/enriching some of his/her background, behavior, or point of view in society.

 

For what it's worth, I scored 18 on Jet'a's questions, and I was able to convert every question in an Eorzean aspect without much struggle.

[Kellach Woods]

Kell walked backwards off a cliff.

 

The end.

[Vodka Tears]

It's an interesting idea, but I found a number of the questions to just not be applicable to Nergui. The tribal life he experienced is just to drastically different from the United States. In particular, questions relating to jobs and education. There really is no 'firing' a hunter, or really anyone in a tribe that's nomadic. Currency in general wouldn't really have been used much, more likely it would have been bartering. Education would have been largely non-existent as well, and while I could have answered those questions as no, I feel the difference in worlds isn't adequately reflected by just saying Eorzea instead of United States. On top of that, simply choosing not to answer those questions skews the results. There are now less opportunities to take a step back, or a step forward while still using the same scale.

 

Interesting, but to really get a better picture of privilege in Eorzea, the questions would need to be more tailored to world we play in, too much is different to leave the questions as they are.

[Blue]

It's an interesting idea, but I found a number of the questions to just not be applicable to Nergui. The tribal life he experienced is just to drastically different from the United States. In particular, questions relating to jobs and education. There really is no 'firing' a hunter, or really anyone in a tribe that's nomadic. Currency in general wouldn't really have been used much, more likely it would have been bartering. Education would have been largely non-existent as well, and while I could have answered those questions as no, I feel the difference in worlds isn't adequately reflected by just saying Eorzea instead of United States. On top of that, simply choosing not to answer those questions skews the results. There are now less opportunities to take a step back, or a step forward while still using the same scale.

 

Interesting, but to really get a better picture of privilege in Eorzea, the questions would need to be more tailored to world we play in, too much is different to leave the questions as they are.

 

All right, if there is interest I'll take the time and rewrite the questions in the way I interpreted them for my characters. I had just put the original questions there because I wanted others to be free to choose their own interpretation, but I feel this is being an issue, so I'll work on it. Stand by~

[Shuck]

Even a re-write would assume that the majority of Eorzea's predominantly illiterate, uneducated population was concerned with more than just having enough to eat to live through the winter.

 

It's not really a society where the modern concept of privilege applies. Pretty much none of this list sticks, as it assumes a world where modern conveniences are present.

 

So...are you planning to just churn out a totally new set of questions? Do you have enough information about Eorzean society to do that? What about a population sample? What examples of privilege can you find outside of stated monetary wealth? How do we measure that wealth? Do we include NPC's?

 

Really, I'd just ditch the whole project. I understand why you find it interesting, but this is not the setting to turn this particular lens on. There just isn't enough context to even get started, much less get anything constructive out.

[Blue]

Done, no question removed. These are the questions I personally answered as Jet'a. True, most of Eorzeans are illiterate, and that is why an education (or owning books) is a privilege and adds a point. I think that's the point of the question. In the third world, the 98% of population is illiterate (1 out of 5 people on Earth, and Eorzea is not Hydaelyn), so yes, even on Earth being literate is a privilege.

 

Also regarding wealth, I'll say what I've stated in the gil thread. The gil we make with in-game mechanics, and the prices in the Market Board (or in housing, since those prices depend on the Market Board prices) are OOC. I always look at the price of food ingredients to determine the true value of gil, and use it to picture how much my character would actually own. I think only those born and raised by nobles in Ul'dah can seriously claim to have millions, personally.

[Shuck]

Done, no question removed. These are the questions I personally answered as Jet'a. True, most of Eorzeans are illiterate, and that is why an education (or owning books) is a privilege and adds a point. I think that's the point of the question. In the third world, the 98% of population is illiterate (1 out of 5 people on Earth, and Eorzea is not Hydaelyn), so yes, even on Earth being literate is a privilege.

 

Nobody's talking about earth, though. We can't measure this world's societal structure by earth standards. They're not even at the same developmental stage as our third world countries.

 

Edit: We're still missing the context for the vast majority of these questions. What do we know about faith systems in Eorzea? Who's got an in-road where? We don't really see anyone thumbing their nose at another for favoring another member of the twelve(Correct me if I'm wrong).

 

The police aren't just "on call" like they are in today's world. They're largely available wherever they happen to physically be, as people can't just dial them. Your average person doesn't have a linkpearl that goes to the Wailers or the Blades, or anyone for that matter.

 

The job situation, given the lack of any kind of formal education anywhere, is largely dependent on whatever needs another set of hands. We see that in any of the guilds available. They will literally take anybody. Walk in, get an apprenticeship, start doing stuff.

 

Things like this:

 

* If you have ever been the only person of your race/gender/socio-economic status/ sexual orientation in a classroom or workplace setting, please take one step back.

 

Don't even kind of apply here. The "workplace setting" is totally different from what we know of workplace settings. Classrooms almost don't exist. We also have no way of actually measuring this. What samples of information can we take? Where do we get the context for this?

 

Edit 2: Ul'Dah is the only spot that has millions? How much do you imagine one of the Lominsan Galleons, owned by private crews costs?

[Blue]

Done, no question removed. These are the questions I personally answered as Jet'a. True, most of Eorzeans are illiterate, and that is why an education (or owning books) is a privilege and adds a point. I think that's the point of the question. In the third world, the 98% of population is illiterate (1 out of 5 people on Earth, and Eorzea is not Hydaelyn), so yes, even on Earth being literate is a privilege.

 

Nobody's talking about earth, though. We can't measure this world's societal structure by earth standards. They're not even at the same developmental stage as our third world countries.

 

Okay, you don't have to participate and I respect your view, as Evelyn Beatrice Hall would say: «I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it»

 

I'd kindly ask that you do the same and not tell me to just "drop it". I'll leave the rest in the hands of the mods. I am content with having read even just one bit of information about one's character status in society (thank you Kellach) and polite feedback on how to improve the questions (thank you Vodka). My mind is at peace.

[Shuck]

Okay, you don't have to participate and I respect your view, as Evelyn Beatrice Hall would say: «I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it»

 

I'd kindly ask that you do the same and not tell me to just "drop it". I'll leave the rest in the hands of the mods. I am content with having read even just one bit of information about one's character status in society (thank you Kellach) and polite feedback on how to improve the questions (thank you Vodka). My mind is at peace.

 

I'm not telling you to do anything. I can't. I'm asking you questions regarding your approach here.

[Blue]

Okay, you don't have to participate and I respect your view, as Evelyn Beatrice Hall would say: «I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it»

 

I'd kindly ask that you do the same and not tell me to just "drop it". I'll leave the rest in the hands of the mods. I am content with having read even just one bit of information about one's character status in society (thank you Kellach) and polite feedback on how to improve the questions (thank you Vodka). My mind is at peace.

 

I'm not telling you to do anything. I can't. I'm asking you questions regarding your approach here.

 

Okay, give me a bit to try and address them, then. I am not comparing Eorzea to the third world, I was merely saying that education is considered a privilege even where illiteracy is fairly uncommon, you are privileged if you can read. I think for example that Garlemald is fairly literate, as is Sharlayan. Eorzea is clearly not in a first world environment, it is still in development compared to some other countries (hence, they can't be "first", and there's also internal conflicts going on, which are often counted in when determining the position of a nation, or group of nations, in the world ranking. I'd put it in the second world setting, which is equiparable to Russia of the modern days).

 

Regarding faith, maybe there is not discord among different believers of the Twelve.. this is more treated as Greece's pantheon of the Gods, where one will preach a deity more than the other depending on his trade or status. But we should not forget that we just received a huge batch of RPers that do not preach the Twelve (the Au Ra), and there's also the Garleans. My character, Clive, is an Ala Mhigan, grown in the invaded city. He was beated hard to drop his worshiping of the Twelve, so much that he now sides with the Garleans' point of view on religion (I think they are atheists?).

 

Also, I do not think all trades in Eorzea accept pretty much anyone. There can be cases of frowned upon communities undertaking certain jobs.

 

2.1 Spoilers

 

Lord Lolorito in particular, I remember him criticizing Teledji Adeledji for hiring Ala Mhigan refugees in the Platinum Mirage. Some ethnies are clearly seen most fit to take no other position above slavery.

 

 

At the archer's guild you are also dissed initially for not being fit the class. The archery questline in general is all about cultural traditions on bowsmanship between the Keepers of the Moon and the ... whatever clan that Elezen was.

 

So yes, there are examples of discrimination on trades, as well.

[Domri Blackblade]

[Max]

Whenever I see a Monetarist not check their privilege I am so literally triggered.

[Warren Castille]

If you were born in one of the main City-States (Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, Ul'dah, Ishgard), take one step forward.

 

The folks in the Brume would like to know how being born in Ishgard equates to having gained privilege.

 

I don't want to be yet another person jumping on the "Maybe this isn't a good idea..." wagon, but applying real-world social dynamics to a medievalish fantasy setting doesn't seem compatible.

[111]

I mean I get what you're trying to do in theory, but in practice this is RP, and you can make a character as high or as low as you wish.

 

You can decide tomorrow that your character suddenly got wealthy, or they could lose it all. I would almost argue this does a disservice to real life discussions of privilege, by implying it also could be personal choice.

 

Edit: Yay it's the thread derailment brigade. Glad to see you have joined us, I was worried we might for once have a calm discussion about a controversial subject..

[Virella]

Checking your privilege just does not work in Eorzea. It does not have privileges in the way the real world has; every tribe, society, nation considers x to be something privileged, or not.

 

Heck in your previous questions, I had a laughing fit over "is English take your native language? Take a step back." & "If you are not American, take a step back." due to being Dutch. Privileges in real life are still very relative.

 

If you wanted to do this in a way it would work, you would have to do it for every nation and society. But I am very much on the bandwagon as well this will lead to nothing in the end.

[Grott]

 

I don't want to be yet another person jumping on the "Maybe this isn't a good idea..." wagon, but applying real-world social dynamics to a medievalish fantasy setting doesn't seem compatible.

 

Welcome to the wagon. I'm not against it for anything other than the objective reason of "2015 America and the world of Hydaelyn are entirely incomparable for these purposes"

 

I get what OP's trying to do. It's cool to try to involve everyone in a big intensive character survey, and the frustration at all the pushback is understandable.

 

But this doesn't work. Sorry, man. Plus the idea of "privilege" is a hot-button issue in society right now, so it's probably not wise to throw it into this make believe world we all play pretend in. It's a little too real for some people.

 

Plus, how the hell am I supposed to gauge my character's privilege? His circumstances are entirely unlike my own, or anyone's, for that matter. Gauge Tarzan's privilege and get back to me with what you find. If that works, I'll give Tancred's a shot.

[111]

Checking your privilege just does not work in Eorzea. It does not have privileges in the way the real world has; everyone tribe, society, nation considers x to be something privileged, or not.

 

Heck in your previous questions, I had a laughing fit over "is English take your native language? Take a step back." & "If you are not American, take a step back." due to being Dutch. Privileges in real life are still very relative.

 

If you wanted to do this in a way it would work, you would have to do it for every nation and society. But I am very much on the bandwagon as well this will lead to nothing in the end.

 

Even with it done for cities, there would be so many assumptions and generalizations made, I doubt it would tell you anything useful.

 

That's the issue with those 'privilege tests' in the real world as well, it tells you more about the intentions and views of the test-maker, than it does anything about actual privilege.

 

Privilege is best when just left as a concept, and a way to express the idea that there are not obvious resources people can have due to their race, birth, nationality, family, etc. It breaks apart when you try to score it like stats in an RPG.

 

edit: bolded for emphasis.

[Shuck]

Okay, give me a bit to try and address them, then. I am not comparing Eorzea to the third world, I was merely saying that education is considered a privilege even where illiteracy is fairly uncommon, you are privileged if you can read. I think for example that Garlemald is fairly literate, as is Sharlayan. Eorzea is clearly not in a first world environment, it is still in development compared to some other countries (hence, they can't be "first", and there's also internal conflicts going on, which are often counted in when determining the position of a nation, or group of nations, in the world ranking. I'd put it in the second world setting, which is equiparable to Russia of the modern days).

 

That's the problem. You think. We have no way of knowing. That information isn't in the game. You can't establish a metric of any sort without context, and we are lacking context. We have no idea what the official literacy rate is. We have no idea how necessary it is, given what we see of Eorzean society.

 

We have no idea how satisfied people are with their governments, or their lot in life, or their way of living. We have no idea how the nobility and common people interact, if at all. We have no idea how well, or how poorly Garlemald is doing. We know nothing about Sharlayan outside of "has scholars". In what? For what? Are they like Ishgard's observatory staff? Are they like the Ossuary? The seedseers? Entirely different in general? What is our measure of education?

 

Regarding faith, maybe there is not discord among different believers of the Twelve.. this is more treated as Greece's pantheon of the Gods, where one will preach a deity more than the other depending on his trade or status. But we should not forget that we just received a huge batch of RPers that do not preach the Twelve (the Au Ra), and there's also the Garleans. My character, Clive, is an Ala Mhigan, grown in the invaded city. He was beated hard to drop his worshiping of the Twelve, so much that he now sides with the Garleans' point of view on religion (I think they are atheists?).

 

There's nothing that suggests Garleans are atheists. They simply don't believe that the Primals are gods. We also have no idea what the Au Ra believe. We have no idea how that sits with people that worship the twelve.

 

We also have no real indication of how Gridania deals with the Elementals Vs. The Twelve.

 

Also, I do not think all trades in Eorzea accept pretty much anyone. There can be cases of frowned upon communities undertaking certain jobs.

 

2.1 Spoilers

 

Lord Lolorito in particular, I remember him criticizing Teledji Adeledji for hiring Ala Mhigan refugees in the Platinum Mirage. Some ethnies are clearly seen most fit to take no other position above slavery.

 

 

At the archer's guild you are also dissed initially for not being fit the class. The archery questline in general is all about cultural traditions on bowsmanship between the Keepers of the Moon and the ... whatever clan that Elezen was.

 

So yes, there are examples of discrimination on trades, as well.

 

"Frowned upon" doesn't really say much, though. Before a high-horse is mounted, and I'm told that because I disagree with you, I have no idea what discrimination could possibly be like, let me say the following: I'm brown, and jewish. I've applied to jobs that would not call me back until I checked "prefer not to answer" in the race column.

 

"Frowned upon" means jack shit if they don't turn you away. And they don't. At all. Ever.

 

Anyway. Even though this NPC is a real dick to the player character, that dickery extends even if the player character is of the same race they are. It's got less to do with the character's race, and more to do with the NPC's opinion of themself.

 

On the spoilered text: Nobody likes refugees, period. Anywhere. At all. "Not being at war" isn't a privilege, it's the default state of things.

 

On questions: So how are we handling a simple lack of jobs for these people, then? What happens when we've got enough help? Is blind, dumb luck a privilege? How do we measure that?

 

What about the acceptance of a myriad of societies regarding their rulers? Are the seedseers privileged? Because game world context suggests that it's a burden.

 

In a world where death due to disease and injury is a pretty common fact of life, do you really think anyone's going to shout "ableism" if a call is put out to all able bodied people to keep the town from being burnt by whatever apocalypse rolls up the road this week?

 

Again, where is your information coming from? What context are you placing these questions in? We're lacking in any meaningful information here. Also, I'm still not telling you to drop it. I'm saying that in order to get this down, you'd need to know more about the world than we're actually able to know, given the big, gaping blindspots in the lore, and the amount of guessing you'd have to do to adapt this concept to the setting.

[Faye]

what

 

is this tumblr

 

is this real life

 

is this Eorzea