Healing Spells - Clarification

[Riik]

It's probably been discussed many times in the past within the RP community, but I'm still somewhat personally confused over the matter, and that is the matter of healing spells.

 

Different players seem to have different ideas of just what healing spells should do, what part they play in the healing process, and just how effective they are. I think it would be easier if we were to have an RPC guideline to healing spells (rather than a rule, because such a rule would be impossible to police, especially given that not all RPers use the forum).

 

If there is already an answer to this somewhere, then I'm sorry for dragging this up again.

 

What comes next is my personal opinion on healing spells their effects... I'm not saying I think this is what we should decide on, just that these are my thoughts on the matter, and such thoughts may help us come up with a more consistant design on just what each spell can accomplish in RP:

 

Cure - Reduces pain, cleans wounds, cures headaches, improves concentration and boosts adrenaline

 

Cura - Nullifies pain, cleans wounds, cures simple cuts and bruises, cures moderate headaches

 

Curaga - Cures all flesh wounds, eliminates head pain

 

Raise - Resuscitates any individual on the verge of death, resurrects recently dead (within a few seconds) individuals, provided their bodies are intact and internal damage is not too bad, returns an individual to consciousness should a concussive blow have knocked them out

 

Esuna - Cures simple poisons and diseases, increases defence and reduces symptoms of stronger poisons and diseases, allows individuals to fend off powerful poisons and diseases for longer.

 

My ideas thus make all spells useful in their own way individually, also giving higher levels spells more power, without making any spell have godly abilities. It also means that advanced medical procedures, such as surgery, cannot be completely bypassed by conjuration magic; although such magic can definately help with the process (prevent infections during the process, cleanly close the wounds, etc).

 

With a similar guide in place (without trying to force any individual to follow any particular views on the matter), not only would it be easier to help those unsure of how to utilize healing spells in an RP environment, but also help bring together other RPers into sharing a more uniform view on the effects of common healing spells.

[Aysun]

I think this is the most important thing: "Different players seem to have different ideas of just what healing spells should do."

 

I also think that no spell should bring back the dead. Leave that to the psycho NPC THMs. When we fall in game, we're knocked out, not dead. Hence why we're 'weakened' or on the 'brink of death' when we're raised. So there's no reason Raise should be able to reverse death, no matter how recent.

 

I've always been of the opinion that Cure/Cura would reduce/numb pain, slow bleeding, and jumpstart the healing process. Repeated use over a period of time can speed the healing process, whether it be a wound or broken bone. I don't like that any spell could be used to immediately seal a wound or mend a bone. I also think that real medicine is very important in Eorzea. Bandages, salves, medicinal potions. There are chirugeons, aka surgeons, too.

 

I think instead of even attempting some sort of standards, that players who are RPing together need to just agree on what certain healing actions will do.

 

It will be interesting to see other responses though, and see how everyone else does it.

[Riik]

With the raise thing, I didn't mean bringing any old recently dead person back to life, I meant pretty much doing what we can do with technology now (resuscitation, defibrillation etc).. essentially taking someone from the verge of death, only on a slightly more wider scale (i.e. pretty much against any cause, provided that the dying individual's body can still function without instantly dying again).

[Merri]

Mm. I've always taken healing spells with a grain of salt. There's obviously the two extremes, and I try to find a balance between the two. Too powerful, and it's basically a Deus ex machina. Too weak, and it makes you question the point of even having white mages and paladins to begin with. The way I like to see it, normal cures could mend small wounds - nothing serious. Between the armor our characters wear, the fact that it's a fantasy game and our characters aren't exactly normal by any means, as well as defensive spells such as Stoneskin and Protect, there's plenty of protection to be had against some of the nastier baddies in Eorzea. In fact, I prefer to think White Mages have more to do with preventing serious wounds to begin with, and mending the wear and tear of normal battle.

 

Obviously there's always going to be situations where all that falls through and grievous wounds are obtained, and I don't think cures would have enough potency to completely mend that kind of damage. I could see them helping slow bleeding, or providing enough pain relief for one to fight on if the wound isn't extremely life threatening.

 

As Aysun noted, we never really "die" in FFXIV, rather we end up unconscious. I see raise as more of a means to stirring some one awake who's been forcibly knocked unconscious from trauma. I don't really see normal raise spells having the potency to restart some one's heart - but that's just me and my perspective on it. There's always exceptions, and even I'm open to different possibilities and higher potency magic that does have a bit more of an edge. It's just situational and depends on who is participating and what everyone is comfortable with.

 

I think that's really the bottom line. The sky is the limit, honestly, you just need to strike a balance with whoever your roleplaying with as far as spell potency goes.

 

 

Edit: Another good example is in the

Obviously the Elezen isn't exactly a white mage, but it's still taking her a bit of time to mend the Roegadyn's burn. Food for thought on cure potency in the hands of people who aren't white mages.

[Eva]

I think this debate has come up in every RP group to which I've belonged, and it is one that is near and dear to my [and my character's] heart.  I think my mindset more or less mirrors Merri and Aysun's.

 

I don't like quantifying healing magic if I can avoid it.  In past RP I have more or less left it to the "patient".  I tend to envision my character as "a pretty good healer" who was once something of a prodigy with the skill as a little girl but then let it wither away with disuse for a couple of decades.  But I know some people use injury IC as a way to explain away an OOC absense and there usually needs to be some sort of an understanding between healer and patient in order for this to work out - otherwise the patient may feel slighted that his wounds aren't being regarded as severe enough, or the healer may feel slighted that his talents aren't being recognized appropriately.  So like most things in RP, it boils down to a mutual understanding between both parties, best realized through open communication.

 

In my own RP I have dealt with more abstract things rather than casting individual specific spells (such as that which were outlined in the OP).  I find emotes detailing the channeling of threads of aetherial energy towards an injury to paint a slightly clearer picture than just "So-and-so casts Cura" - but I know each RPer has different tastes and preferences and those differences should also be acknowledged and respected.  Being a weaver first and foremost, this always made a great deal of sense for Eva, but I would never have any expectation that another healer describe the same technique.  Like most things, I think this is left to individual interpretation.

 

I do also like seeing more mundane medicine in RP to help supplement the magical.  A realistic example might be using curative aether on the field to keep someone alive or staunch bleeding long enough to get them to one of the Eorzean infirmary-type places (Phrontistery, Stillglade Fane, so-and-so's spare bedroom, etc.) and then make use of healing salves and bandages and that sort of thing from there.  I just think the important thing is that both RPers involved be in agreement.

 

Bottom line I think this is one of those things best left to each RPer to kind of interpret in their own way based upon those guidelines which S-E has already given us.

 

 

EDIT: edited for the sake of clarifying one somewhat vague line

[Lizzo]

Reading through this thread I would like to throw out an example from my characters' wikis and get feedback on it to see if I have a relatively good grasp on healing.

 

My main character was slashed with a spear during a fight in the past.

My alt (a conjurer) later used her healing skills to attempt to heal the wound.

The wound was cleaned and sealed through the healing, but the main character now has a scar.

[Eva]

This seems like one good way to go about utilizing healing magic.  :thumbsup:

[Kari Illderthane]

Iv always found it fun for the user of the magic to suffer some sort of effect for using magic. Normally just tiredness although In WOW my character did bring back someone from the brink of death then collapsed. but too often I see people using healing magic like a child eating candy.

[Eva]

I agree with this as well, and fatigue has been the method I've also used with regards to healing more severe injuries in-character.

 

I think the important thing here to realize is that different healers may RP with differing levels of proficiency or magic potency, different degrees of reliance upon more mundane or conventional means of medical treatment to fall back on, and varying levels of success in the endeavors.  None of this is really wrong, but I've found that it helps if there's a little OOC communication between healer and patient to kind of establish that line between demonstrating the severity of an injury and demonstrating the abilities of the healer.

[Moonfire]

Seeing that I usually play a healer type character, I am a little biased. But because I play a healer then I usually am not as good in combat (RP included) so I still want to be useful. I think that healers should be utilized in RP combat but also that there should be a way to keep things going if one isn't available. For instance bandages and medicine can help but a healer can speed up the process. As for the individual spells I don't know them to be able to decide. But I would hate to see a "rule" with in the community of how it works. This should be decided by the RPers involved and be flexible with each situation.

[Kari Illderthane]

Its down to personal preferance as Eva was saying there is no right or wrong way to RP healing and a bit of ooc communication can go a long long way.

 

Edit: Ps I used to always RP a healer aswell *high fives*

[Grike]

Just saw this thread and felt the need to throw my two cents in. 

 

It's true. There is no right or wrong way to role play this. I mean that is what role play is, self expression. 

 

However, I personally believe cure only promotes ridiculously speedy tissue growth. Now when I say only I don't mean that its not a big deal.If we could do it here in reality land we'd be laughing. However we have to remember that the world of Realm Reborn isn't like ours. I mean this is the kind of place where dragon gods fall from the moon and giant chickens are considered a reasonable form of travel. 

 

In other words, magic that re-grows tissue at the speed of light just isn't going to cut it. 

 

Here's an example of where the all mighty curaga and maybe even revive would fall short.

 

- Choking

Scenario:Oh noes! Billy tried to eat a whole Chocobo’s Leg and now he's choking! But it's okay because...

 

we cast cure!

 

Well done! Except he's...still choking. But at least his paper cut is gone! Billy is flailing around now, pointing at his throat. We shrug and cast cure again. Nope. Natta. 

 

Now Billy is twitching on the ground. Well crap. Oh no, Billy stopped twitching. Open your eyes Billy! Open your eyes! Don't go towards the light Billy! Cure, cure, cure - damn it, it's not enough! NO Billy! NOooooooo.

 

But wait! We have revive or phoenix down or whatever. 

 

We stuff a bunch of feathers in Billy's mouth and watch as our dear friend is revived just long enough to flip us the bird before he dies again. 

 

Well

shoot. 

 

If only we'd learned the Heimlich maneuver. 

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Head injuries, blood loss, collapsed lung, severed limbs, none of these are easy fixes even with unlimited tissue growth. And even then what if someone is impaled by something? Cast cure and all you do is heal the torn up tissue only for it to be ripped apart again by that giant harpoon still lodged in theirchest. 

 

In short? Cure is a great thing but that doesn't mean my healer won't be carrying a medic bag. 

[Vareal]

For me, personally, I always looked at HP as your characters stamina; the lower it gets, the more fatigued your character becomes. So to me, the Cure spells are more of a way to revitalize, restore the characters stamina so they can continue to fight, rather than a 'heal all' skill. The cure spells can also help accelerate the healing of wounds, but cannot heal them completely on its own. I think this is demonstrated in the video posted before, from the original CG opening, and also it's demonstrated in the End of an Era video when our hero is hit in the face by a projectile and is temporarily wounded, though not gravely so, and the Cure spell helps him to recover faster. Other skills like Esuna will do just as they always do, remove status effects.

 

None of my characters have been healers, or adept at the skill, so it's never been an issue on my front. That's just how I see it.

[ForestGuardian]

I, too, see this discussion pop up in every RP community, and I think I have one of the less popular opinions about it. 

 

While I definitely support "attempts" and putting the power in the target's hands, I think we also need to look at just how powerful destructive magic is. In games where you can summon meteor showers over a group of enemies or literally change every cell in a person's body to polymorph them into a sheep, it makes no sense to me that people want to place huge limitations on restorative magic. 

 

I love playing healers, and roleplaying as them, so I certainly don't want people to try normalizing the idea that they're less useful or less powerful than a destructive spellcaster. 

 

That said, I haven't seen a lot from FFXIV yet, so I don't know how my opinions on this relate to the game 100%. I just think there shouldn't be a huge gap between restorative magic power (potential) and destructive magic power (potential), unless it absolutely makes sense to the game's lore.

 

 

But as I said, I am all for allowing the people I heal to react to it as they will. Even if my character is supposed to be a rather decent healer, if they want to RP that broken arm they're free to say the magic wasn't strong enough. 

 

Also I do tend to RP fatigue after healing serious injuries. A fractured skull? Punctured lung? Severed hand? Fatigue. Minor gashes on arms, arrows that haven't punctured anything major / etc. I treat those as typical battle-wounds that I'd be able to heal and keep going alongside the fireball-flinging mages and greatsword-flailing warriors.

[Blade]

(Note: I may refer generally to mages that can heal as 'white mages,' but I understand that the range of classes that can heal are much broader than that, including Paladins, Bards, Conjurers, etc.)

 

I think there will be a bit of a range of opinions on this matter. Personally, here are some considerations I have regarding white magic and healing mages.

 

1. Healing mages need to be able to contribute something significant; like a field medic, their presence could make the difference between life and death.

2. There must still be a point where a healing mage cannot save someone. Death must be possible, since death in Eorzea (death of NPCs etc) is either directly seen/implied multiple times.

3. As Aysun mentioned, there is still a need for medicine and apothecaries by lore, so a healing mage can't really replace the IC need to carry such medicines.

4. I also agree with what was said by ForestGuardian says about there can't be such a huge gap between the restorative potential of healing magic versus the destructive potential of black magic.

 

Bringing these all together, I sorta view healing mages as ones who sooth wounds and heal grievous injuries. I see them as being capable of doing a lot more than just healing cuts and scrapes and curing headaches and whatnot. To some degree, there's a lot that adventurers can recover from on their own that a white mage doesn't necessarily tend to (for example, cuts that later would form scars). I think its reasonable that a white mage wouldn't expend their energy to fix these small things necessarily. That seems like a good spot for the medicines to be accounted for.

 

Here's what I personally think would be something approaching the limits of White Mage. A Warrior takes two direct stabs through them with a nasty polearm. This should arguably bring them down, and they would die in time without help. A White Mage could step in to restore tissue enough to keep the Warrior from death, but I think ICly the Warrior should still feel an ache there for some time, if not taking a few days to recover ICly, if not simply due to the loss of blood.

 

Something that I think would be going too far? A White Mage reattaching body parts... bringing someone back to life from the dead... etc. Things like that, to me, seem too big.

 

I think it also falls upon the 'fighter-class' roleplayers to roleplay their characters fairly and when and if your character takes a seriously compromising hit, that you don't pull a "I'll just walk it off... even though blood is pouring out of me, and my arm's broken." I think theirs a lot in place as Merri said to justify characters not taking the wounds in the first place (armor, and we're not exactly 'normal' people either with the buffs and whatnot that we get), but when we do take a serious wound, we should require help.

[Eva]

I usually play (and roleplay) the healer class in most games I've played.  My very first foray into this was a game where the healer class was an Empath, and rather than directly healing like a white mage might do, the wounds were first magically transferred unto the healer's own body.  This made for a lot of fun and interesting complications where a healer had to worry about him-or-herself not incapacitating themself or bleeding out.  Back when THM had the Sacrifice spell (for those who might have been around that far back) there was a similar sort of potential there, but this has since been changed and I've been left having to adapt a bit. (sort of like when they took water magic away from us >.> )

 

I think a "middle of the road" policy is best to adhere to, and I'm speaking kind of generally.  While she was something of a prodigy healer in her youth, Eva went without using magic for 24 years and that talent atrophied with disuse to the point that I don't ever intend on really having her reach that level of skill again (in part because it may be regarded by some as hedging pretty closely to godmode anyway, depending on how much freedom is allowed with regard to the aetherial treatment of injuries).

 

As I've been toting all along, most conflict-type issues can be resolved through OOC communication, and if there is nothing else that I've encouraged throughout my tenure in RP, it is communicating.  If you are a wounded and want to keep your wounds for some reason or another, than it's important to let the healer know with a quick OOC /tell.  If you are a healer and you're not sure, a simple OOC /tell to ask what the patient is all right with may help save a lot of confusion/frustration down the line.

 

I don't think aetherial healing should be regarded as a be-all end-all method of treating everything.  Stalkingrike made a lot of wonderful points and common sense probably ought to dictate a lot of what should and shouldn't be regarded as good practice.  I tend to think that the most effective healers in-character will be those that balance aetherial healing techniques with more conventional (i.e. mundane) medical practices such as first aid.

 

For Eva, she is a nurse.  She has a good amount of skill with aetherial healing techniques but she's not regrowing limbs, instantly fixing gunshot wounds, etc.  I can't even really comment whether such advanced forms of healing should or shouldn't be possible in RP.  That's one of those things I think that is left to individual interpretation and I'm not fully sure where I stand on it myself.  But Eva can tend smaller wounds, staunch bleeding perhaps, and basic 'maintenance' type healing.  This is paired with a medical background which is geared less towards treating specific injuries or surgical type operations and more towards having a good bedside manner, reducing patients' suffering and making them more comfortable and relaxed.  She is not a doctor and doesn't possess that kind of knowledge, but she works well in tandem with that sort of RPer (I believe Shiro and Moltove have worked with her in such a capacity on a couple of separate occasions in 1.0).

 

I view it as strengths paired with weaknesses in such a way that it makes for a more interesting character - particularly when put in align with another healer type.

 

But I'm really digressing quite a bit here now.  And this will probably always be an issue as there is quite an interesting spectrum of thought regarding what is and isn't really acceptable.  I just make it a point to try to stay towards the middle, and of course communicate!  (I can't ever stress that enough, in all things)

[Grike]

I agree with everything said above.

 

I'm not saying cure is useless but I am saying that one would have to know the body to use it properly. For example I don't think cure would work if you don't know what you're supposed to be healing.

 

Say someone isn't breathing properly. You can't just cast cure if you don't know why they're not because there could be a whole number of reasons: punctured lung, collapsed lung, bruised lung, broken rib, air way blocked, and so on and so on.

 

I think what makes white mages so special isn't that they can simply cast healing magic - if that were the case any black mage could easily add a cure or curaga to their arsenal. No, the things that seperate them from the rest is that they know the human body, how it works, and what to do when things go wrong with it.

 

In short a healer should be just as knowlagable about medicine as any doctor. The only difference between the two is that they can heal multiple wounds instantly with magic instead of having to rely on gauze, clotting packs, and simple time.