Lydia Lightfoot Posted November 28, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 28, 2015 This one should be a quickie for the lore gurus. I seem to recall seeing "Ser" used for female knights just the same as males, but just now while doing some quests again in HW on another character, I noticed the use of "Lady" instead. Am I imagining having seen "Ser" used for female knights before, or is this something SE ninja-changed in 3.1? Link to comment
Aya Posted November 28, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 28, 2015 I know that I've seen "Ser" used for females in 2.0, no idea if they've changed it or not! Link to comment
Khunbish Avagnar Posted November 28, 2015 Share #3 Posted November 28, 2015 I can't be 100% certain but I believe I've seen both...although if the use of ser, the appropriate for a lady should be dame Link to comment
Kage Posted November 28, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 28, 2015 The Dragoon you meet in 50+ job quests is referred to as Ser in pre 50 DRG quests. Link to comment
Lydia Lightfoot Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted November 28, 2015 I can't be 100% certain but I believe I've seen both...although if the use of ser, the appropriate for a lady should be dame I don't think I've ever seen Dame used by an NPC (either towards my character or with regards to another NPC). Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, though - I may just not have noticed. Link to comment
Kage Posted November 28, 2015 Share #6 Posted November 28, 2015 In my journal logs: Unfading Skies level 40 DRG Job quest: "After meeting with Ser Heustienne of Ishgard...." Sky's the Limit level 50 DRG Job quest "...Shortly thereafter, Ser Alberic arrives in the company of another dragoon, who introduces herself as Heustienne, one of your instructors during your trials..." Link to comment
Khunbish Avagnar Posted November 28, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 28, 2015 Sounds like they're using Ser universally Link to comment
Kage Posted November 28, 2015 Share #8 Posted November 28, 2015 I'm not sure why you would refer to Ser Alberic as a Ser still and Heustienne as not one now @_@. The only difference is that Ser Alberic is a former Azure Dragoon and Heustienne is just a dragoon (and yourself Azure Dragoon). Edit: THERE IS STILL A 3.0 SER HEUSTIENNE. Link to comment
Erik Mynhier Posted November 28, 2015 Share #9 Posted November 28, 2015 There is a Sultansworn (cant remember the name) in the Hildi missions. She is referred to as "Ser". So outside of Ishgard, for sure Ul'dah. Also as an old former Sworn RPer, characters that are ladies of the blade and oath have been called Ser since 2.0 beta and before I believe. Link to comment
Valence Posted November 28, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 28, 2015 Out of curiosity, where does the word "ser" comes from? Not just game of thrones, right? Does it have any basis in history, like its probable old french mirror "sire"? Link to comment
Khunbish Avagnar Posted November 28, 2015 Share #11 Posted November 28, 2015 Out of curiosity, where does the word "ser" comes from? Not just game of thrones, right? Does it have any basis in history, like its probable old french mirror "sire"? Originates from the italian title messer, it was the short hand version of it, same word that mister originates from. Just did a quick etymology search on Ser. Also used for to be...like to be human would be ser humanus Link to comment
Coatleque Posted November 28, 2015 Share #12 Posted November 28, 2015 Ser is the archaic form of Sir and is considered gender neutral where Sir is masculine and not grammatically correct to be used for women. Link to comment
Lyse Falen Posted November 28, 2015 Share #13 Posted November 28, 2015 Out of curiosity, where does the word "ser" comes from? Not just game of thrones, right? Does it have any basis in history, like its probable old french mirror "sire"? Ser is most often used when gender and proper title are not actually known, so it's perfectly fine for female consumption as well as male. As to the previous topic, I imagine it might just be a shift in persons or how they're treating someone to shift from Ser to Lady. Like Jim might call her Ser and Bill might call her Lady, or Jim decided that things had shifted and decided to call her Lady instead of Ser from now on. But! Ser is still an acceptable term for females. Link to comment
Coatleque Posted November 28, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 28, 2015 As to the previous topic, I imagine it might just be a shift in persons or how they're treating someone to shift from Ser to Lady. Like Jim might call her Ser and Bill might call her Lady, or Jim decided that things had shifted and decided to call her Lady instead of Ser from now on. Sir / Ser is used generally when authority is given to the subject by someone else. You would say 'yes Sir' to a military officer, manager, task master, knight, or the like. Lord / Lady is used when authority is given to the subject by yourself. Someone who has authority simply because you recognize it as such. "My Lord" / "My Lady" you would say to a king or queen, magistrate, baron, wealthy merchant, other nobility, or even a simple customer if you were working retail because you have placed yourself under them. 1 Link to comment
Kage Posted November 28, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 28, 2015 One of the biggest things I've seen is that GRR Martin uses "Ser" in A Song of Ice and Fire, and we've seen several references to the series in the game (localization at the very least). As was pointed out to me, they have specific titles/last names given to bastards of houses (even though they may be recognized they won't inherit of the house. Haurchefant Greystone for biggest example) Link to comment
TheLastCandle Posted November 29, 2015 Share #16 Posted November 29, 2015 It wouldn't surprise me if the localization team's use of "Ser" was influenced by A Song of Ice and Fire, which arguably popularized the term. Probably the books more so than the show, since FFT:War of the Lions also used it back in 2007 before GoT came out. Link to comment
Lydia Lightfoot Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted November 29, 2015 I think WOTL used it mainly because SE at some point went from paying for localization which was very basic and often absurd, to paying actual professionals to localize their products with legitimate efforts towards that weird "quality" thing and with an angle on making the games feel thematically pre-modern. I doubt it had anything to do with Game of Thrones, though I'm sure the historical and pseudohistorical inspirations for both groups were similar. Link to comment
Dis Posted November 29, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 29, 2015 I won't argue that Ser was made popular by GRRM's writing, but the first time I saw 'Ser' used was actually before I knew what those books were. In Dragon Age, specifically, used by Ser Cauthrien, a female knight who was Teryn Loghain's lieutenant. I used it pretty generically in fantasy writing after that point, and I know I'd seen it used before then, but I'm not sure when or where. That said, I love the fact that it works well for males or females, as supported by in-game text. Gives a good generic form of address in the event of a character who is heavily armored and not easily able to be identified by gender, for example. 1 Link to comment
Lost River Posted November 30, 2015 Share #19 Posted November 30, 2015 I'm fine with Ser; although my character Lost River prefers Madame or Lady; given her former profession. I'll let you think that one out. Link to comment
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