Jobs/Classes and their weapons

[azraelwolfe]

So I've always wondered if my character gets knocked down or away, and drops his weapon could he theoretically still casts magic as a SCH, BLM, WHM, SUM, etc? Like I get with soul crystals that they act as a focus so you don't implode but surely my character wouldn't be helpless without his stick.. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by azraelwolfe

[Skae]

For most jobs the soul crystal merely acts as an accelerated learning device, allowing the wielder to learn in a year or two what would otherwise take many decades to master.

 

The staves, rods, books, etc. that spellcasters use aid them in channeling and focusing aether.  They probably can cast spells without these tools, but it would be much harder and with less control - especially if they aren't used to casting without their tools.

Trying to cast any powerful spell without their usual tools would presumably also be dangerous for the caster, since the reduced control would mean they could easily burn themselves out trying to channel all that aether.

.

[azraelwolfe]

That's a interesting thing..I'm fairly new to a lot of this lore despite my studies(and because I don't talk to most of these NPC's lol). Hmmmm I wonder if they'll touch more on this in later stories and quests. I'd love to see more elaboration on being able to use magic as a Scholar and Summoner with NEEDING the book, especially if it gets destroyed or wet. Which also I'm curious about, does the magic in the book protect it from the weather? 

[Valence]

It seems unlikely to me that an arcanist based class can cast spells without their book. They need a physical manifestation of geometric patterns to materialize their spells, and the ink itself is the aetherial focus. 

 

I suppose you could maybe make a case of "I see the patterns in my mind and screw the focus/medium", much like for a thaumaturge throwing off the focus (the gem) and catalyst (the cane) but so far lore hasn't shown anything like it, unless you start exploring non caster jobs like monk, where the body acts kind of like a focus through chakras. All other jobs manifest their aetherial abilities through foci of their own: musical instruments for bards, aetherotransformer+gun for machinist, the blade and shield for paladin, the inner beast for warrior, the inner darkness for dark knight, the drachen mail for dragoon, etc.

 

Primals however don't really seem restrained by such rules but they are... primals, beings of pure aether. As for Ascians... I don't know. They aren't really human anyway, or are way more than just human. A case could be made that if you are powerful enough, maybe you don't need those pitiful tools and foci, and proceed to pull off a god Kefka and whatnot... But even the Warrior of Light, who's supposed to be the most powerful warrior around as far as we assume, still uses canes and staves and whatnot.

 

Alisae has been an interesting case before she got offered her current rapier by Urianger in that she used to summon directly an aetherial blade acting as a focus for her red magic. So with that in mind it's possible to replace a physical focus by a magical one, but Alisaie actually had to sustain it and keep it fed in aether constantly once summoned, which she said was very taxing and hungry in aetherial resources. 

 

In any case, for jobs, the lore has yet to show that you don't need a magical or physical implement to cast a spell. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Valence

[Hollow]

On 7/4/2018 at 11:01 AM, azraelwolfe said:

That's a interesting thing..I'm fairly new to a lot of this lore despite my studies(and because I don't talk to most of these NPC's lol). Hmmmm I wonder if they'll touch more on this in later stories and quests. I'd love to see more elaboration on being able to use magic as a Scholar and Summoner with NEEDING the book, especially if it gets destroyed or wet. Which also I'm curious about, does the magic in the book protect it from the weather? 

 

This does actually happen in the Arcanist quests - the pirate dude chucks her book overboard and she's helpless. If I recall correctly, when she later recovers it, it's ruined beyond repair.

 

I'd imagine that an ARC/SUM/SCH tome wouldn't be quite as vulnerable to the elements as an ordinary book, though. They're made with special paper, special ink, special binding, and so forth, to maximize aetheric conductivity. You could, in theory, cast the spells just by doodling them with a pencil on a piece of paper - or even just drawing them in the sand with a stick, though your geometries would probably be terrible - but you'd have to dump a lot more power to get a weaker version of the same spell.

 

But it's not like you can't do anything magical without a special tool. Warriors can make a flash of blinding light by focusing their aether on the blade of a sword - I'd imagine anyone who learned could do the same thing using anything reflective. Conjurers use a stave to replenish their aether, but you can use your own aether to heal just as easily (though you'll eventually die from it). Monks don't use any focus at all, they channel and project aether using their muscles and motions of their own body.

[Skae]

Near the end of the 2.x MSQ, when the Scions are fleeing Ul'dah - then Y'sthola casts her final spell there without using her wand - unlike her usual spellcasting where she wields the wand in one hand.

Granted, that was an ancient spell she cast - so it might not use the same techniques as more modern spells.

 

[Hollow]

Didn't it also take her an absurd amount of time to finish casting? Probably should've used the wand.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Caldera

[Kieron Lohengrin]

On 7/3/2018 at 2:27 PM, azraelwolfe said:

So I've always wondered if my character gets knocked down or away, and drops his weapon could he theoretically still casts magic as a SCH, BLM, WHM, SUM, etc? Like I get with soul crystals that they act as a focus so you don't implode but surely my character wouldn't be helpless without his stick.. 

 

Depends. Padjali weapons, for example, are made of pure light and shaped/summoned from your own personal aether. Easily gotten by running PotD. 

 

Per Yoshida, only monks and pugilists get an Emperor weapon, since they can fight unarmed. You could always pull an FFXV and store/summon your weapons at will. 

[Skae]

20 hours ago, Caldera said:

Didn't it also take her an absurd amount of time to finish casting? Probably should've used the wand.

 

It did look that way, but later some NPCs say she probably used that spell, instead of more conventional ones, because it was so quick to cast and she was in a hurry.

 

[Silmanos]

The spell in question is the spell called Flow, it was the original teleportation spell developed by Sharlayan when they began to experiment with teleportation magic in the early Sixth Astral Era. This spell however is extremely dangerous and has resulted in deaths, which is why it was forbidden and phased out for the newer spells that became possible once Sharlayan got a grasp on Aetheryte technology. The spell Flow, like all teleportation magic, does not require a focus in any way which is why you don't see her using one. It is indeed faster to cast than your average teleport spell which is theorized to take several minutes in game lore to actually cast, but it does take more time to cast than your average combat based spell.

 

When it comes to foci being used in the process of spellcasting most of what we have seen is that casters do in fact need the focus for their specific art in order to cast spells. One could possibly use brute force and throw a blast of unaspected aether without a focus, but this would likely be difficult to control. Various Disciples of War do indeed utilize aether, but never quite on the same scale as a Thaumaturge, Conjurer, Arcanist, or Astrologian, let alone the older arts of Scholars, Summoners, Black Mages, and White Mages. These spells are infinitely more complex and require a good deal more aether than probably any DoW abilities do save maybe Monks and Dragoons. The purpose of their foci is to channel and hold this aether while they structure the spell, and in the case of Arcanists to help proved the shape of the spell as well. Now that isn't to mean that your focus /has/ to be the traditional grimoire, cane, or staff. Just the important parts. Arcanists rely on aether conductive ink to channel the aether, so theoretically it may be possible to use this to place the geometries into clothing though this would severely limit your repertoire of spells. For Thaumaturges the big thing is the enchanted gem combined with aether conductive metal, and conjurers wood treated with a special alchemy compound to make it react almost like living wood. The only one I can't really see a way around is Astrologian for their globes aren't just conductive to aether, but they also align with the heavens which is important to Astrologian spells.

[Valence]

22 hours ago, Kieron Lohengrin said:

 

Depends. Padjali weapons, for example, are made of pure light and shaped/summoned from your own personal aether. Easily gotten by running PotD. 

 

PotD weapons and HoH weapons are made of pure aether like Alisaie's first rapier. This doesn't meant they don't act as focus like physical ones. They are actually very hard to keep up and consume an absurd amount of aether.

[Hollow]

6 hours ago, Skae said:

 

It did look that way, but later some NPCs say she probably used that spell, instead of more conventional ones, because it was so quick to cast and she was in a hurry.

 

 

I think she cast two different spells, there. The one that took so long was the spell to collapse the tunnel on their pursuers (and themselves), and then she very quickly cast Flow to escape while the tunnel was collapsing. 

[Kieron Lohengrin]

2 hours ago, Valence said:

 

PotD weapons and HoH weapons are made of pure aether like Alisaie's first rapier. This doesn't meant they don't act as focus like physical ones. They are actually very hard to keep up and consume an absurd amount of aether.

 

Quote

"When first surveying the labyrinth, I found it was protected by powerful magicks that would sap one's life energies the moment they step inside. Indeed, the mage who could erect such a warding spell unnoticed by the elementals must be possessed of terrible power. Thankfully, I was able to devise a means to protect against the foul power of that place─aetherpool arms and armor. By channeling the wielder's energies into the weapon, rather than allowing them to be drained, one can brave those tenebrous halls and dispatch the fiends within. Should you wish to do so, I will gladly furnish you with these arms, for we would welcome any assistance you can offer."

 

Quote

"You wish to use your aetherpool weapon outside the Palace of the Dead? Hmmm... It is clear you have channeled a considerable amount of aether into it after so many expeditions into the ruins. Perhaps a portion of its energies can be siphoned off and stabilized to be used outside of the ruins."

 

Per E-Una-Kotor, Padjali weapons don't continually drain your aether at an "absurd" rate once stabilized for external use. You simply need to have done enough expeditions with them, as per the game mechanics, during which you were channeling aether into them. Afterward, it's up to the individual player how they want to interpret carrying around and stowing a stable weapon of pure light.

As for spellcasting requiring foci, it might hold true for most casting classes - especially red mages, but gets muddier with certain other jobs. Dark knights, for example, are shown in their casting animations thrusting their hands out palm forward for Unmend, Salted Earth, Sole Survivor, Shadow Wall, and Abyssal Drain, around which the black rune symbols and energies form while casting - not their swords. Similarly for Blood Weapon and Sole Survivor, where the magic coalesces in their fist as they make a grabbing motion in midair. The only spell attacks explicitly channeled through their weapons instead of their bare fingertips are Unleash and Dark Passenger.

 

Overall, the rules for magic are a bit less clear-cut for some than "you're completely helpless and screwed without a focus." At which point, again, individual player / DM fiat comes into play.