Gilgamesh vs Balmung? Why? o_O

[Asyria]

Controversial poll, go!

 

Since talk of a vote for a non-Legacy server, a number of threads have been popping here and there about the good and bad sides of Legacy and non-Legacy. That's pretty normal and expected.

 

What's less normal and expected is that now that the vote is behind us and we have two official (well official for the RPC, still non official for Squeenix) servers, people still fight over which is "best". Every time a new player comes around and asks, you see people trying to pull them one side or the other.

 

There is no flaming per se, it remains civil, but it does however paint a false impression to the newcomers with expressions such as "is clearly better", "obviously", and "it's no choice at all", just to name a few.

 

I feel that this little infighting is harmful to our community. I also believe that those pulling others one way or the other might have no bad intentions and only seek to make their chosen server better, mind you. I also believe, people are right in claiming their right for healthy debates but I think we are past that at this point as those "debates" have come down to politely waged poaching wars.

 

So the question is this.

 

Considering we already have a good sticky post in the Welcome Desk to describe server options, should we "ban" further Gilgamesh vs Balmung discussion?

By "ban" I mean like.. locking them with a link to the above-mentioned post whenever they happen.

 

I put the actual question in bold, but please make sure to read the whole post before you vote.

 

I'd ask to simply vote and not use this thread for yet another debate on Gilg vs Balm but.. yeah, right.

 

 

P.S. I obviously have no authority here, but I see these debates keep showing up and more people growing tired of them, so I thought it was worth asking. The results might surprise us and give the RPC staff some insight?

[Sygrina]

It's ultimately up to the moderators either way.

[Nox]

Conflict is part of the human interaction. 

 

I'm sorry to say it, but it's true. I'm glad to see that all of the debates have become civil recently, and many people (myself included) simply answer the server question by presenting the servers and the pros and cons of both. That's a positive thing. Recently, I've seen a lot of "make a character on both servers and see which one you like better" advice as well, which is really really nice. I think the debates have become less of debates and, now at least, more of an informative thing. There are things here and there, but nothing that'd cause an even bigger schism than is already there. 

 

I think locking the threads might be a little bit of an extreme thing to do. That might be just me, though. Besides that, it'd be quite a pain for someone to constantly monitor to catch the server question threads before the debate already begins, if it begins. I'm currently not doing anything, as it's summer and I'm unemployed, so I have the time to sit here and refresh the forum page every minute or so. Not everyone does. And I suspect that the staff are quite busy people who have other things that they need to do. 

 

Do I think the "clearly the better choice" talk needs to stop, yes. Yes, please, in fact. Stating that Balmung/Gilgamesh is "clearly the better choice" helps no one. Its a statement of opinion. We do need to stress that Legacy, essentially, means nothing within a few months of release, though. But hey, I'm pretty new here so I might be wrong or my opinion means little. So, I've rambled for quite long enough, so I'll wrap it up in a nice TL;DR.

 

TL;DR: Basically, I think locking the threads is extreme and tedious. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd while answering the server question, I think we should stick to statements of fact as opposed to statements of opinion.

[Desmond Aryll]

It's my understanding that even with the standard subscription, you can roll one character in each world. In other words, as a few people have suggested, there is nothing stopping us from experiencing both RP worlds. 

 

Sounds like a win/win. We can enjoy the established Rp on Balmung as well as conduct a bit of trailblazing on Gilgamesh. That's two distinct RP environments for Rp'ers!

[Lizzo]

After phase 3 ended I finally decided which server I would choose to be on - I ended up with both. I can create characters, hangout and get involved with the Legacy players on Balmung. But! I can also give my support to those starting up on Gilgamesh, going so far as creating a Gilgamesh version of Soliloquy dubbed the Wolf's Den.

 

If anyone is still contemplating which server to choose, perhaps making at least one character on each server to experience both sides may be the best answer.

[Eva]

I confess I'm annoyed by the frequency with which these threads are popping up, but I think it's just something we're going to have to live with for at least the next three weeks.  The facts of what each server are have been presented and as long as that information remains consistent and unbiased, I see no reason to lock it.  And when someone comes at one of these threads with an opinion favoring one server or the other, usually someone from the opposite side of the argument is quick to point out any details which may have been omitted.

 

My opinion is that I'm tired of these debate threads because people favoring Balmung are not going to find the reasons to choose Gilgamesh compelling, people favoring Gilgamesh are not going to agree with those favoring Balmung, and a handful of people in the middle are just going to keep reiterating the same points - play on both servers.

 

The only tidbit I could offer to this would be that if a new player does create characters on both servers that he or she also investigate what sort of guilds are available on each of those servers and make some effort to be proactive and initiate contact with members of the most preferred guilds on each.  I think standing around in Gold Court and waiting for RP to just happen is not the best way of going about that.  Research, research, research.  And consider that the friends and acquaintances you will be making and associating with - possibly over the next several years - will ultimately depend on this choice.  So don't make it lightly.

[Lizzo]

I confess I'm annoyed by the frequency with which these threads are popping up, but I think it's just something we're going to have to live with for at least the next three weeks.

 

My opinion is that I'm tired of these debate threads because people favoring Balmung are not going to find the reasons to choose Gilgamesh compelling, people favoring Gilgamesh are not going to agree with those favoring Balmung, and a handful of people in the middle are just going to keep reiterating the same points - play on both servers.

 

And consider that the friends and acquaintances you will be making and associating with - possibly over the next several years - will ultimately depend on this choice.  So don't make it lightly.

 

Feel bad for even posting on this thread now. Would delete my previous post, but can't.

[Eva]

Feel bad for even posting on this thread now. Would delete my previous post, but can't.

 

Please don't feel bad. You are entitled an opinion just as much as anyone else and there is nothing wrong with expressing that! :thumbsup:

[Asyria]

It's ultimately up to the moderators either way.

 I know and in fact said so myself.. but I also said that the results of this poll could give the moderators some insight on what people think/want. ^^

 

 

Anyways, it's definitely not as bad as it could be, I just think it's not helping anyone, polite or no. Locking could be a bit much, but seeing how many people are tired enough of it to want them locked could be enough.

 

And hey if there's more No than Yes, I'll just leave it be and stick to encouraging newcomers to try out both.

 

And yes, everyone has a right to their opinion, it's just the whole "jumping newcomers and pulling them to one server by saying it's better than the other" thing that I feel is bad for everyone.

[C'io Behkt]

My opinion is that I'm tired of these debate threads because people favoring Balmung are not going to find the reasons to choose Gilgamesh compelling, people favoring Gilgamesh are not going to agree with those favoring Balmung, and a handful of people in the middle are just going to keep reiterating the same points - play on both servers.

 

Actually, I strongly favour Balmung yet tell people to try both. The people in the middle aren't the ones advocating the "try both" option; the people who have already made their decisions are. The choice is such a poignant one that I think some of us have recognized that we should not even try to sway those undecided, as much as we might want to. Those undecided should try both; they should do research; they should make their own decision in the end because it is a decision they themselves will have to deal with.

 

It's like my students who ask me which of two colleges they should pick. Typically the two colleges are of equal measure, both equally fantastic, both full of opportunities, both well-suited for the student. I should not make that choice; their parents should not make that choice; the student must make that choice. Why? Because I'm not the one going to their college and neither is their parents. We're not the ones who have to live with that decision for the rest of our lives, they are. We can guide them when asked, help them find the research and resources they need for better understanding, but leave it to them in the end to make that call.

 

Same principle here.

[Eva]

It's like my students who ask me which of two colleges they should pick. Typically the two colleges are of equal measure, both equally fantastic, both full of opportunities, both well-suited for the student. I should not make that choice; their parents should not make that choice; the student must make that choice. Why? Because I'm not the one going to their college and neither is their parents. We're not the ones who have to live with that decision for the rest of our lives, they are. We can guide them when asked, help them find the research and resources they need for better understanding, but leave it to them in the end to make that call.

 

Same principle here.

 

I agree with this 110%. My opening paragraph was also a bit of a generalization. Of course there are those who have already made up their minds but are still encouraging people to research what's out there and choose what they feel will be best for them. But most of these threads do amount to the same few types of posts which express either the same opinions, the same facts, or a bit of both. The proverbial horse has been beaten to death, I think. Nothing new is coming of these posts, which is why I suppose I'm getting tired of seeing the same things re-hashed.

 

I guess my point is that I don't think locking or nuking these threads is going to do any good except hurt people's feelings and we should probably just accept that even though the resources are available to help people make fact-based, educated choices about which server to play on, folks may just need to be continually pointed in that direction.

[Lightningtear]

Hello, this is my first post on this site, and finally I see something I want to mention.

 

I am a big RPer first off, so I understand the qualms that come with choosing where you want to play. In the beta I followed my GF into the Cactuar server as she had initially followed some friends into it. All big Rpers as well, and we still found RP.

,

For me it was easy, and will still be easy as I am following her. In Tera we joined the Celestial Hills server for RPing. It is easy as there is only one, but we also met many good Rpers.

 

Now that I'm done with what seems like pointless prologue I just want to say, while I hear people saying the choice is important, it will determine a lot, there is also the chance to just let your character 'be born' into whatever server they are and let things happen from there. Stories will be created along the way, decent back ground will be developed. Not everyone has every detail down pat and sometimes just letting the world mold it, instead of trying to be fully molded to the world helps a lot.

 

I found Rp in cactuar and even RPd the death of the 3rd phase with some people I had just met, or had little interaction with before, yet enjoyed 3 hours of just rping the end of the server in an area that was beautiful but way over leveled for us. But we made out way in and enjoyed it.

 

Balmung, Gilgamesh, both will be RP servers. If you are like me and don't want a hundred characters there is also the choice of really just picking and immersing yourself. Each will have different and very similar things. The people will be different and while one side can bring up awesome situations you are missing out on, you will have your own. Perspective will be different and what might seem great elsewhere might not have been great for you.

 

Some may find this immature, or too bold, or lazy. They will want full fledged structure ahead of time. But to be honest characters are forged in the fires of the world. There is no reason to doubt the heat of either flame.

P.S. I know this isn't a vote.

[C'io Behkt]

I guess my point is that I don't think locking or nuking these threads is going to do any good except hurt people's feelings and we should probably just accept that even though the resources are available to help people make fact-based, educated choices about which server to play on, folks may just need to be continually pointed in that direction.

 

Yeah, totally agree with that.

 

I wonder if it is possible to make a sticky of sorts that links to two categories on the wiki: Balmung and Gilgamesh. The two categories could capture the characters and shells which exist on either server and maybe even highlight any regular event or venue which gets run. It's a rough idea with its own problems, but with some polish it might actually help mitigate the frequency of this question by putting the research in an easy to find package.

 

Or we could wait for Launch and hope the threads stop coming up once we're all too busy actually playing, hehe, . The sticky should only be done if it has a lasting value to the community otherwise it isn't worth doing either.

[Karhu Katsu]

With me, it hasnt been an issue of which is better, as much as Gilgamesh has had alot of reports of griefing, being the unofficial Reddit server.  I prefer to be part of the reddit army, but not to RP with a bunch of redditors talking about the front page in shouts. no offense.

[Dehqon]

New people will always want to ask "Where should I go?" whether they've read existing threads with suggestions or not. Simply redirecting a newcomer to an old post could give the impression that the community is full of elitists who don't want to talk to them. Locking posts, even with a reason why, could give the impression that the community is so unstable that it could fall apart at any moment. Punishing them is even worse because then they may avoid this site because of "Those stupid rules and moderators". Either way you look at it, they won't get a good impression of this place.

 

There's no way to predict what a Person wants, but we can still encourage them by listing good things from all sides rather than being so biased that FOX News would want to hire you. List the good things from all the servers, then encourage them to give each a try before making a decision.

[Saefinn]

I put 'neutral', I think people will want to discuss pros/cons and I'm all for it, I picked Gilgamesh, but I don't actually know anything about the pro and cons of going for either, I pretty much picked a server out of a hat. The pros/cons would influence me and when it comes to starting a new character for phase 4.

 

However, I can understand that "which is better?" is an unfair question because the answer is highly subjective and could result in server wars (like people go into console wars with PS3/360 or OS wars with Mac/PC and iOS/Android) but if it's an intelligent and civil discussion between the pros and cons, I see no problem in it. It helps people who are new make a more informed choice.

[Asyria]

Well, the reason I'm pointing this out and asking people's opinions is I feel there's no discussion at all.

 

The pros and cons have all been laid out a dozen times already and all that's really left is "this one is best" and "no, this one is best". Those are officially accompanied with a reason why it's "best" but it still boils down to a false concept of "best" and I find that annoying.

 

Anyways, it's exactly 50/50 so far, with a majority of neutrals.. which is exactly what I expected.

 

No surprise for me this time!

[Grott]

I read nothing but the original post and then voted, so if I'm just rephrasing what's already been said, I apologize.

 

My answer is simple: Hell no.

 

Sure, it gets a little annoying seeing poaching wars. So what? Everyone should have a right to their opinion and this poll sort of opens up a whole new area of discussion, which I'm sure wasn't intentional. That area is censorship in general. I feel like any time anyone disagrees, whether it be hostile or benign, the thread is closed, locked, and never spoken of again. It's seriously like the Happy Valley skit from Flying Circus.

 

Seen here from 00:36 to 02:10:

 

 

There should be debate between the two servers. Can you imagine how politics would work if there were no public debates before election day? It'd be awful.

 

I feel like every time I'm on this site, a new discussion is being stamped out by the powers that be. It's very disturbing to see a public community that isn't allowed to have opinions.

 

EDIT: Also, the irony of taking a poll about whether or not you should be allowed to express your opinion is a little strange to me...

[Kylin]

Interesting topic of discussion. I actually had considered doing just that (locking all threads related to this topic on sight). In fact, the day prior to this post being made, I had typed up a post for the mod forums and was about to post instructions to do just that. I thought better of it and tossed out the decision though.

 

I'll state it for the record now: On a personal level, the constant creation of these types of threads is annoying as hell to me. I see one crop up and I instantly think "here we go again..." I believe this topic is a dead horse, and everyone has very clearly stated their opinions on the issue multiple times now. I believe it's pointless to continue discussing the issue ad nauseam. To be blunt, nobody's opinions are going to change anytime in the near future until post-launch, when activity levels and styles become more apparent. It feels no different than the constant swarm of "legacy vs non-legacy" threads on the beta forums.

 

That said, I also believe that the RPC itself should not stifle opinions or discussions of any sort, even if the topic is redundant (unless the topic is heading in a hostile direction, going off-topic, and/or other reasons we deem appropriate). As a community hub for RPers, we have to accept that different people want to discuss different things (and have different opinions on things). However...I am very much leaning toward merging all future threads about this topic into older threads in order to keep things less cluttered at the very least, and to make it clear to others that the topics already exist and have been beaten to death.

 

My suggestion for everyone in regards to responding to this constant issue is to consistently point people in the proper direction and simply advise them to try both servers to come to their own individual decision based on their own experiences. One can take the advice or leave it, but that really is the only thing left to be said in this never-ending debate. People will go where they want to go, and none of us can force them to choose otherwise.

[Grott]

Interesting topic of discussion. I actually had considered doing just that (locking all threads related to this topic on sight). In fact, the day prior to this post being made, I had typed up a post for the mod forums and was about to post instructions to do just that. I thought better of it and tossed out the decision though.

 

Reaaaaaally glad you didn't go through with that plan. 

 

I've had my fair share of complaints on this site, as anyone can see from some of my posts, but it's clear that the leadership is doing their best to appeal to everyone. That's why I stick around. Everyone's trying. Ideas might not always work, but at least there's a genuine effort to make things right. If you ended up locking all the threads related to the topic, I'd lose that faith and take my RP business elsewhere.

 

Yeah, it's annoying to see all the time and it should definitely be discouraged, but full-out silencing everyone with a dissenting opinion is ...well, it's just wrong. People should just know it's getting real old real fast.

 

So, good on your for doing the right thing. :thumbsup:

[Asyria]

Was wondering if you'd post here eventually Kylin.

I'm not too surprised you feel as I do, and am glad you didn't do anything in the end. If the poll is any good representation of th e RPC as a whole, it seems the majority either doesn't mind enough to want any radical actions toaken or is bluntly opposed to it.

 

I do believe however, that merging any such thread would be a good idea. It would allow people to discuss AND still prevent these threads from cluttering the forums.

[Averis]

I'm with those that say we should not ban it. Yes, it's a tired subject for those of us that have been here since it started, but there will be a lot of new members coming along and confused about the two server choices. It might be best to actually have a sticky post somewhere about why we have two servers etc.

 

As for posting replies to these posts, I think the best we can do is offer why we made our own personal choice on the matter (hopefully without knocking the other choice) and offer they try both and do research.

 

But to outright lock or ban a topic like this is not, in my opinion, the best way to go about it. Especially when it would likely give new members a bad first impression.

[Eckzein]

Doink!?

I'm assuming the majority of these threads are started by newer RPers and those who are new to the community. Which makes it a fair question. The point being is what does each server have to offer that new player as far as RP goes? The short answer to this is it doesn't matter so just pick the camp where you'll pitch your tent already. (*Shakes fist* Dam you Lightningtear, one post and 3 Reputation e_0%#? )

The long answer is....

 

Balmung

-Established RP community, RP to be had guaranteed.

-(New to RP perspective) Intimidated oh I'm so intimidated T.T I fear I'll just be a bother, waste others time and eventually just be overlooked and quietly shunned because of my poor RP.

-(My perspective) RP is kind of clique-ie. You'll be left out in the cold if you don't actively seek to be a part of it. (*Shakes fist* Dam you Lightningtear)

btw- From their forum, Crystalline is trying to foster cross LS RP, kind of skewers the whole RP clique-ie thing. (Right---?!)

 

Gilgamesh

-New Sever with lots of enthusiasm, but.... it could just all fall flat (Character transfer anyone?)

-(New to RP perspective) Oh my gosh! A new server, I'm new, maybe they'll be more people like me over there ^ ^... oh wait, will I still be getting THE RP experience that I was expecting?

-(My perspective) RP is kind of clique-ie. Eh, from my RP experience, the one thing I always had fun with was screwing around with fresh faces.

 

There are other legitimate reasons to have concerns over which server like...

-RP population activity, will I be the only one RPing cause I live out in Europe.

-Server stability

-Economy

-OOC friends

-yada yada yada, do your research already.

 

Ultimately, ask very kindly, very nicely, very softly to the moderators of this forum to just pile all the Server vs Server threads into one spool and use it to make beautiful quilts with cute little chocobos and snuggly wuggly moogles...EEEEEEEeeee!

 

Again, character transfer, seriously, just put those words next to Gilgamesh and Balmung as some sort of ward against curses

 

PS: My goal wasn't to offer any insight, but to make you say "Doink" out loud

[Asyria]

It might be best to actually have a sticky post somewhere about why we have two servers etc.

 

We do. It's linked in my opening post and is stickied straight in the Welcome section which should be where newcomers go first.

 

Also, for me it's not so much about giving a bad impression to newcomers.. anyone who comes here and is scared away by some disagreement should question their desire to be part of any community in the first place. However, us old timers find it annoying too.

 

Of course we can just not read those threads, but as mentioned, it's a perfectly legitimate question. What is not legitimate is some of the answers given. nd we really don't need so many of those threads.

 

I believe Kylin's idea is better than any ban AND better than doing nothing as well.