A Duskwight Discussion

[Eva]

 

The official website has this to say about the Elezen:

 

The Elezen are a characteristically tall people, long of limb and slender of build. They are also possessed of a somewhat extended lifespan in comparison to the Hyur. The Elezen once claimed sole dominion over Eorzea, their presence predating that of the other races, and, as such, developed a heightened sense of honor and pride. In years past, the Hyur migration into Elezen lands sparked bitter conflict. At present, however, the mutual understanding reached between the two races allows them to work towards mutual peace and prosperity.

 

And this about the Duskwight, more specifically:

 

"For the past several centuries, the Duskwight Elezen have lived in the woodland caverns of Eorzea. These cave-dwelling Elezen are the descendants of a branch that split from the main Wildwood clan during the founding of Gridania. The Duskwight despise the "shackles" of urban life, and it is not uncommon for this reclusive people to avoid the city-states altogether."

 

 

 

Gamepedia provides this information, which I believe is what S-E had said officially about Duskwights from FFXIV 1.0:

 

"Centuries ago, a number of Elezen sought out a life of peace and seclusion in the depths of Eorzea's caves and caverns. Today, they are called the Duskwight, though to their Wildwood cousins they are known simply as the Greys, after their preference for darkness and stone. As part of their physical adaptation, the Duskwight have developed an acute sense of hearing, capable of detecting the faintest of sounds. This natural gift grants them an uncanny awareness, which many have put to exemplary use in the field of hand-to-hand combat. The cave-dwelling ways of the Duskwight persist today, with some among them turning to robbery and pillaging to survive, earning them the scorn of their woodland relatives. Their are few differences between the genders, but Duskwight males are often regarded as being the more stern and authoritative of the two."

 

 

 

Final Fantasy Wikia adds this (much of which I think comes from pre-1.0 when people still referred to them as 'Shaders' as was translated from some JP information):

 

"The Elezen are a race from Eorzea in Final Fantasy XIV. They are the race that has lived in Eorzea the longest and co-exist peacefully with the other races. They are similar to the Elvaan of Final Fantasy XI. Among the Elezen, the Forester tribe live in the forest but also adapt to urban life, and are excellent archers due to their keen eyesight. The Shader Elezen, also known as the Duskwights, live in caves and see the Foresters as traitors. Shaders have excellent hearing and are skilled in hand-to-hand combat, and many act as thieves."

 

 

 

The Official Lore Forum's Naming Conventions Sticky gives us a little more information as well:

 

Both the Wildwood and Duskwight Elezen are proud clans from a proud race. The forenames and surnames used by them have changed little since the time when they first crossed into Eorzea from the north. However, over the ages, due to bad blood between the two tribes, the surnames once commonly used by both, have been claimed by one side or the other. Now, you will find that while the structures and spellings of the names are extremely similar, and they follow the same phonetic rules, a Duskwight and a Wildwood Elezen will never have the same last name.

 

 

 

There was a Wildwood character in Gridania named Prosperlain who gives us more detailed information about some of the clans, including a [possibly biased] view of the duskwight (this is the transcribed context of what he says as borrowed from our own RPC wiki)

 

"The Duskwight are cousins to us Wildwood, and the same blood of the first Elezen courses through both our veins. We are not entirely unlike in appearance, but generations spent in the darkness of caves have created rift enough between our ways of life.

 

Mind you, I bear their kind no ill will. I simply keep the records. And the records state that the Duskwight are generally believed to be...shall we say, unruly, and stubborn. Many turn to thievery and banditry to survive, and are seen as a disgrace to the nobility espoused by the Wildwood. Should you encounter any beyond a city's boundaries, you had best be wary."

 

 

 

 

I have spoken with Kari and Teardrop recently along various channels and figured I could create this thread (as kind of an offshoot from this one to serve a couple different purposes:

 

First, I wanted to put all this information in one place and solicit additional information pertaining to Duskwight Elezen culture that I may have overlooked.  If more information is presented to us, I'll be glad to amend this post so that everything is neatly provided.  Perhaps others may do something like this for the other race/clans - I know there are already a dozen or so discussion threads about miqo'te culture.  Duskwight culture and how RPers approach it has been something that has interested me since the game's launch.  Which segues me into the primary purpose for creating this thread.

 

There isn't a great deal of information provided about duskwight culture.  From talking to NPC's in 1.0 and Beta we have been able to glean a little information.  For instance, the "Greys/Greens" remarks are meant to be somewhat insulting or condescending in-character.  I don't think a duskwight would normally regard another duskwight as a 'Grey' - unless maybe jibing.  From all that I have seen it is usually a member of one clan mocking the other.

 

We have not been given much in the way of settlements or back history to work with, and I know many RPers have sort of pieced together their own backstories/ancestry with what little information we do have.

 

So I think the primary thing I am wondering (and I will bolden for emphasis) is directed specifically towards those who are RPing duskwight characters:

 

What sort of background does your duskwight character have?

 

Between RP in 1.0 and Beta so far and just reading through some of the wonderful stories posted here it seems like there are a lot of great ideas and, while some artistic liberties may have been taken - mostly out of necessity - it makes for a richly woven tapestry of stories and adds depth to the race, I think.  I've had experiences with maybe a half dozen duskwight characters, all with varying and unique backgrounds and I love that!  I just kind of wanted to start up a discussion amongst that subset of the community that plays duskwight characters and get some additional perspectives.

 

So, please comment away with what your duskwight character's background is like and maybe we can all kind of compare notes and gain some additional perspective!

[AFriendOfAFriend]

Monty is Duskwight, but beyond cursory acknowledgement of his paler-than-usual skin he doesn't really identify as one. He was raised in an orphanage and had a fairly lonely childhood, but if that was some sort of discrimination he took no notice - he preferred his solitude anyway, so reason meant little to him. He grew up in Limsa Lominsa, working for a rather diverse logging company with a very open recruitment policy. For the most part he was treated simply as he was - an honest, if quiet and somewhat lazy worker who did as asked and never complained. When the company closed and he joined the Maelstrom his treatment was much the same: so long as he pulled his weight, no one had anything to say against him - or for him, for that matter. His race had very little to do with his upbringing, if anything at all.

[Twinflame]

Thanks for the lore-dump. I've been looking for lore and having trouble finding it, and as a fresh import to FFXIV who plans on maining a Duskwight, this is incredibly relevant to my interest.

 

My Duskight is Megiddo, and he is elderly to the point that he's probably in his last decade of natural life, and he has outlived his wife, children, and most of his grand children. Creating a family tree for Megs has been a fun and cerebral experience for me, and in my head-cannon, he and his family lived in a relatively small family group in the caves in the Black Shroud. His parents died while he was still young and he became patriarch of this group then, a role that he has filled for nearly six decades.

 

Please note that I don't need this live-with-your-family thing to be common, though if other people RP similar histories, that's all the better. I figure that Duskwight either live solitary lives or live in family groups similar to the Keeper Miqo'te. I've been unable to find lore on Duskwight family life, or their culture in general.

 

Megs wass authoritative and cruel to his family, and they most likely would have been very unsettling to know. A rather vicious and antisocial lot, they worked as poachers, bandits and assassins who made no effort to integrate with the world around them and cared only for themselves and one another. This paradigm is one of the primary reasons that Megs' history is so tragic; the relationship between his family and the rest of Eorzea was one of conflict. Gradually, through his long years, Megs has watched his descendants die off one by one. His only remaining family member, a granddaughter, loathes him deeply and lives apart from him, serving with the Blades in Ul'dah.

 

Megiddo lost the last of his children in the Calamity, and while he helped some with reconstruction immediately after, he has for the most part withdrawn from the world. Left alone in his latter years, Megs lives as a hermit in the Black Shroud, wandering and espousing the virtues of letting Oschon guide one's footsteps. He is generally well-meaning and mostly harmless, though he still has his secrets and is very much the same person who raised his children as killers.

 

In my RP during the beta, I occasionally hinted that Megiddo was the victim of discrimination. At one point, Megiddo's wandering brought him to a seeker Miqo'te who had lost her way in the Shroud, trying to get to Gridania. He guided her there, but scarcely set a foot inside before turning to leave, citing poor treatment of Duskwight at the hands of the Wildwood. Once or twise there was very vague reciprocation in which Megs talked down about the Woodwailers, but it was only in passing.

 

I'll prolly make a wiki for him that includes his family tree and flash-fics about some experiences in his life. Til then, this is the most extensive history I've written for him so far.

 

I'd be very much interested in seeing the angles that other RPers have taken on Duskwight families and whatever kind of society they have.

[Vairemont]

I think this is a great idea, and look forward to see what others have come up with.  I don't have anything more to add lore-wise, as what I've been able to find on the internet is up all ready there.

I can, however, give a quick recap on Vairemont's background.

 

He was raised among a clan that lived close to the surface, being one of the bandits that gave the rest a bad name.  They taught they were just doing what they had to do to survive, something he still believes in.  The animosity between the Wildwood and Duskwight is still stoked by them.

 

He leaves after the Calamity, and those five years mellows him somewhat, but he's still very much a prideful, stubborn Duskwight.

[Teardrop]

Eva, it seems once again you've turned in exhaustive effort for the betterment of the community as a whole, and I welcome the opportunity to converse on a topic so, how shall we say...relevant to my interests 8-).  Having all the known available lore regarding the Duskwights in one convenient location makes for a handy resource, as well as a good stepping-off point for discussion.

 

Some of the aspects of Duskwight relations with the other races (and more specifically the Wildwood) were touched upon in the cultural aspects for your character thread. To be sure, from the small amount of actual RP I've done with Isobeau, and tidbits of discussion on these forums, Duskwights are viewed in a variety of ways...sadly, seldom good :dodgy: , and in my opinion, somewhat misinterpreted.

 

I think one of the difficult things about the Duskwight is that their racial tensions are written right into the lore, and so, as with any other aspect of lore, from the names of The Twelve, to the shape of the coastline of Eorzea, is a part of this game that anyone who would role play in FFXIV should be either prepared to accept, modify, or ignore, with the same effect as that choice would have for any other piece of official game lore.

 

One of the things I mention in my RP directory is that for me, its not only important for me to play the lore, but the game's world as well.  On earth, in real life, one should attempt to not prejudge, hold a grudge, or otherwise be anything but accepting, regardless of world history, relations between countries and cultures, etc, etc.  The stigma for possessing a bigoted attitude in this day and age is a strong one.  So strong, in fact, that I think it makes it difficult sometimes for people to feel comfortable in, or differentiate between, role play of those traits in a character and holding them yourself.  When I say that it's important for me to play the game's world, I mean that this is one of the things that differentiate the Duskwight from the Wildwood...perhaps one of the main things, and should be considered by those who choose those races to be a legitimate and acceptable, indeed, lauded role play aspect, and recognized by people who play other races as an aspect of the Elezen character that will most likely have to be contended with at some point, over the course of normal RP exposition and discovery. 

 

To play the "bad blood" between the clans is not an attempt to be difficult or create a hostile RP environment.  If it's not allowed to be explored through role play, then we're pretty much the same clan with a pallet-swap.

 

The lore states that the current relations between the Hyur and Elezen races (read "both clans") has reached the point where both can work together "towards mutual peace and prosperity", so the typical Duskwight probably isn't drawing upon the annals of history in order to drum up any strong feelings against Highlanders and Midlanders.  The situation is a bit different with regard to those of the other Elezen clan.  When such things are stated in the lore, most instances point to the fact that it is the Wildwood who would look down upon the Duskwights.

 

*note the Wildwood can't even bring himself to look in my direction :dodgy:*

 

We can choose to role play exceptional characters (us being behind their actions make them exceptional in the first place ), and a Duskwight who goes through life and does not develop a certain amount of bitterness aimed at their Wildwood brethren I expect would be exceptional indeed, with most likely quite a different set of circumstances regarding their upbringing than the usual Duskwight youth.

 

In this regard, Isobeau is definitely not exceptional  .  My Duskwight will have, and readily display, visible tension toward the Wildwood Elezen...as she has already exposed to a certain extent through previous roleplay.  Why does she posses resentment against the other clan?  Well, that remains to be seen, through IC exploration of the subject .  I will tell you one thing, based on the wonderful RP I had adventuring alongside Vairemont and experienced first-hand...actually role playing the whole Elezen animosity angle will NOT make you any friends.  With anyone else.  Ever :dodgy:.

 

The two points that I feel require the most contemplation and fleshing out with the Elezen lore in general are the following:

 

1:  What were the circumstances that caused the Wildwood and Duskwight to split?  The passages Eva shared with us points to the Duskwight seeking a life of peace and seclusion, but how did events play out that finally drove that split?

 

2:  Why, as in one of the blurbs, do the Duskwight consider Wildwoods as "traitors"?  Defined as "a person who is disloyal", synonymous with such terms as "betrayer" and "backstabber", what did the Wildwood do to earn such ill regard from us?

 

tl: dr version:  Don't be lazy...get back up there and read the whole thing :lol: !

[Vairemont]

First of all, excellent post Teardrop.  You've certainly done your homework when it comes to this topic.  I can only shed a little light on your questions, though.

 

1. The only tidbit that SE gives us is 'the founding of Gridania.'  It's my belief, through browsing older sites and various wordings of the same paragraph, that the two clans split when the realm's governments were first being founded.  I don't know more than that.

 

2. I'm assuming it's the blurb that was from back in 1.0, when they were referred to as Shaders and Foresters, respectively.  If I'm reading the whole paragraph correctly, and from what they kept going into 2.0, the Duskwight despise the shackles of urban life.  So they could see the Wildwoods as traitors due to adapting to urban life and coexisting with Hyur.

 

Keep in mind a lot of this information is outdated ( The 1.0 reference being a good one, ) so there may be retcons or conflicting info.

 

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Elezen#Duskwight_Elezen

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/world/races/elezen

[Kyatai]

Great job amassing all the known DW lore, Eva. MUCH appreciated. I've heard a few things from others IG & from Yssen, but most of my info had been on the very limited summary from the wiki & SW mainpage.

 

I am just now beginning to set to type my story of my DW, so... I cannot say exactly how she will pan out. Yet. I have ideas, impressions mainly, but nothing truly substantial that I could use to define her.

Save the below:

Despite being told by another Legacy person I met randomly IG (not a member of the RPC) that Elezen are humorless and aloof... Chiané will not be.  I sense her having a very dry, almost sarcastic, sense of humor, very blunt and focused in her thoughts and precise in her actions. She will be private, guarded and untrusting of others- which only seems logical. One must prove they are worth trusting to be trusted- not just because of prejudices upon sight and stereotypes. Whether there is 'honor among DW's' as a whole or whether the majority of the race are pretty self-serving as thieves and loners, I have yet to determine... but it only seems logical that as a race, they might be a bit more suspicious and defensive.

Not to say she has a chip, I don't see that she will, really. Just be kind of... standoffish and quiet... until she as determined the measure of a situation.

 

As far as her history goes... I -do- know she was not raised as a thief or cutthroat from infancy, but was from a more reclusive family tradition. She is quite honorable and moral- but her brand of loyalty, honor and morality might not be the same as others. She can and will do what she feels is necessary to survive and achieve her goals.

She is also quite intelligent and proud... not quite arrogant, but she is NOT ashamed of being a Duskwright- and any that might try to insult her will not find a submissive victim.

 

I reserve the right to give more details as soon as they come to me... if needed...

[LeCard]

I will be rolling out a duskwight main for launch and am really excited to see a thread like this. I may have slipped the bounds of the duskwights a little, but i focused more on the solitary life and turning to banditry. Rogier was born to a pirate outside Limsa Lominsa and they lived away from society. I did start work on the mothers back story who somehow (haven't gotten that far back in her story yet) was trained by the conjurers guild.

I haven't decided who he will view the other races, but I do know that he prefers working alone and only goes into society when he needs supplies.

 

I hope this thread will help me build some stronger back story into the history of Rogier.

[Eva]

Really interesting feedback so far!!!

 

To give a little of the background that we've gone with for Eva, we skirted a lot of the issues early on by deciding that she was not a "First Generation Eorzean" - so to speak.  Her branch of the family tree moved up from what we call 'the clan lands' when her father was 5 years old.  They lived in Coerthas.  She was born in Ishgard.  So Eva never had any direct exposure to her duskwight heritage until much later in life when she went back down to visit distant relatives.  That said, there were certain traditions that her father passed down to her that are held in high regard.  Moreover she has observed and is aware that others may exhibit prejudiced behavior in dealing with her based upon her race.  This became much more apparent after she moved to Gridania where there were many more Wildwoods roaming about and (combined with the issue of her weight during her teenage years) she grew up being extremely self-conscious.

 

The character herself does work in opposition to the stereotype though.  She is not one to pass judgement over others, so it concerns her when someone looks down upon her for that.  She is kind, and generous, and friendly, and obliging.  I would no longer say that she is a pushover, but a couple years ago she probably was.  But she is a far cry from the way I imagine the stereotypical duskwight is portrayed.  Most others I've interacted with have been more wary, more guarded, more cautious - and appropriately so.  They probably give a better nod to the lore than I have but with the lack of information - especially at that time - it made more sense to have her somewhat displaced from that culture so that she could still be RPed the way we wanted her to be.

 

To muddy the waters a little further, her first and longest relationship was with a Wildwood boy throughout most of her 20's.  Her father disapproved of Wildwoods and the boy's parents disapproved of Duskwights (though interestingly his siblings were a little more open-minded and receptive to their 'forbidden romance').  It did have kind of a Capulets-n-Montegues feel to it.

 

So while she understands that some folks may make snap judgements based on her race, she generally does not harbor those same prejudices.  Her best friend (before she passed away) was a Wildwood elezen.  She's worked in tandem with Wildwoods on a number of things, in various guilds.  And has endeavored to make herself seen as "an elezen" rather than "one of them Greys" in their eyes.

 

In RP whether this is successful or not is only half up to her.  There have not been many instances in her experiences in 1.0 and beta thus far where her clan was an issue.  This could be attributed to open-mindedness, or the fact that she is fair-complexioned and looks a bit like a pale Wildwood in some ways (apart from the tattoo), or because she is somewhat striking/beautiful it may be overlooked, or because she gives off a motherly/nurturing vibe maybe and genuinely cares.  I don't know exactly, but we're generally happy to roll with whatever another character might say/express in the moment.

 

This post is starting to get lengthier than I would like so I'm going to bring it to a close for now.  But I can write paragraphs more about her ancestral homeland and some of the traditions with we've sort of taken certain liberties.  Perhaps tomorrow.  I'm curious to know what what others think and how they RP their duskwights and their characters back-stories and such.

[Twinflame]

The most likely reason your clan hasn't come up, Eva, is because of what Teardrop touched on: people RP their characters, but fail to RP the world. Another way to say this is that people won't let their characters be prejudiced as much as lore characters would, because they're being influenced by their present culture. A good parallel to this was in Rift, where many RPers from the two factions were not only tolerant of each other, but actively condemned those who were not, even though Defiant and Guardian NPCs regularly attacked eachother on-sight. If you were even slightly prejudice against the opposite faction, the community would treat your character like worthless, racist scum. Which was totally at odds to the spirit of the lore at the time.

 

To play the "bad blood" between the clans is not an attempt to be difficult or create a hostile RP environment.  If it's not allowed to be explored through role play, then we're pretty much the same clan with a pallet-swap.

 

If Eva wants to be perceived as just an Elezen like the others, then the OOC mentality if the community is most likely (but not certainly) predisposed to help her in that.

 

Which is why I intend to give the invitation to others to please be ICly prejudiced against my character if it is appropriate for the culture and history of your character. That's directed towards any Wildwood RPers who may be reading.

 

This became much more apparent after she moved to Gridania where there were many more Wildwoods roaming about and (combined with the issue of her weight during her teenage years) she grew up being extremely self-conscious.

 

I searched Gridania for any Duskwight NPCs at all and was unable to find any. My perception was that Duskwight are not permitted to live in Gridania, except maybe in the Inn at the Adventurer's guild. Respectfully, did I miss something, or am I just the only one who took my conclusions so far?

[Teardrop]

The most likely reason your clan hasn't come up, Eva, is because of what Teardrop touched on: people RP their characters, but fail to RP the world. Another way to say this is that people won't let their characters be prejudiced as much as lore characters would, because they're being influenced by their present culture. A good parallel to this was in Rift, where many RPers from the two factions were not only tolerant of each other, but actively condemned those who were not, even though Defiant and Guardian NPCs regularly attacked eachother on-sight. If you were even slightly prejudice against the opposite faction, the community would treat your character like worthless, racist scum. Which was totally at odds to the spirit of the lore at the time.

 

Exactly this, Twinflame :roll:, thank you for taking it into another venue to further bring home the point!  And this, from a member of UNITY, who would perhaps understand and experienced what it would feel like to be scorned and ridiculed in real life, yet is able to make the differentiation between game world and real world in order to role play the game with the authentic outlook on relations as defined by the lore.  

 

Of course there is room for Eva's thoughts, beliefs, mindset, and experiences in the grand scheme of things, however, because we're not the NPCs, we're the exceptional characters, and she has already lived these experiences through the course of 1.0 .  Eva might be one that Isobeau sees flowing across the upper class portion of the markets, surrounded by the melting pot of Eorzea, might find herself casting envious glances toward the lighter-skinned Duskwight, wondering what it might be like to trade places, then catching enough of the dark, poisonous glares that the fair woman still received, yet seemed not to notice, from others in the plaza and think to herself no, nothing really changes at all...

 

Now, having said all that, the adverse racial reaction can (and probably should be, for game's sake) be tempered to the point where characters can work with each other, be it with a bit of a strained tone...because the lore does not point to actual open warfare between the clans.  The bad relations do not have to be played out in a disruptive way that absolutely prevents cooperation (odd-couple circumstances can be fun to RP through, no :roll:?), but it should be recognized as the prevalent tone that would most likely be encountered during interaction between the two clans.

 

As far as no Duskwights to be found in Gridania, its easy to see through the provided lore that since they "despise the 'shackles' of urban life", as well as are seen as a "disgrace to the nobility espoused by the Wildwood", would not only be made to feel uncomfortable within that particular city-state, but would not really want to settle there to begin with :dodgy:.

 

Kyatai, Isobeau's description hits very close to your concepts on some points...I'll be interested to read your wiki when it comes out   I'll touch more on what I've conceptualized as Isobeau's family latter (gotta run at the moment...)  Great discussion, folks :thumbsup:!

[Eva]

Not going to drop all of Eva's family's duskwight ancestry/backstory just yet because there are some good discussion points here!

 

The most likely reason your clan hasn't come up, Eva, is because of what Teardrop touched on: people RP their characters, but fail to RP the world.

 

I agree with this, but only to an extent.  Not every Wildwood is going to harbor the animosity the lore describes.  Most might be relatively neutral or perhaps more open-minded about the matter.  As Eorzea has become this melting pot it makes sense that most people would become more tolerant if not more respectful of other races/clans.  I agree that some RPers may either be somewhat oblivious to the lore, or otherwise not want to exhibit any sort of racist tendencies for all the reasons that have been mentioned so far, but one must also account for those who are reasonable, tolerant, and open-minded characters.  Eva as a character herself works against that stereotype as well and it probably doesn't help perpetuate that overall stigma as well.  There were so few duskwights in 1.0 and she as a benevolent sort would probably have been seen as a larger minority than should actually be represented.  That said, I would expect some characters exhibit a sort of aversion to Eva simply for being a duskwight and would RP this accordingly were it ever to happen.  As has been said before, I want people to remain true to their characters, and if a character would express something akin to, "You filthy Grey," or somesuch, than I think that would just be swell to react to that accordingly.  As yet in my experiences, it has only happened with made-up background characters I've created myself.

 

 

Eva might be one that Isobeau sees flowing across the upper class portion of the markets, surrounded by the melting pot of Eorzea, might find herself casting envious glances toward the lighter-skinned Duskwight, wondering what it might be like to trade places, then catching enough of the dark, poisonous glares that the fair woman still received, yet seemed not to notice, from others in the plaza and think to herself no, nothing really changes at all...

 

I really love this analysis!!  I sometimes envision it that way too.  To expand a little bit on the living arrangements there, since it was brought up that Duskwights are essentially shunned from Gridania - I don't know if that's necessarily exactly true.  I don't recall seeing many from 1.0 and it's possible there's no NPC's at all - I haven't noticed and admittedly sometimes it's difficult to be able to tell from appearance, particularly with elezens who display fairer skin tones.  I've used this "closeness of appearance" in the past to help explain to myself why Eva might not be as shunned as much others, along with a few other possibilities as mentioned in my previous post (but I accept that some of it may stem from RPer unwillingness to RP a prejudice like that as well, as has also been posited).

 

Eva's father actually became a very wealthy man who initially took up residence in Gridania when she was still a little girl.  They lived in modesty in a shanty at the end of a cul-de-sac despite the wealth, and he was largely invisible for the sake of not tainting the image of his business.  She went to school but had to deal with being different - this didn't help her stress level and she coped by overeating.  Despite the accumulated wealth, these living arrangements remained consistent.

 

There have been a lot of Wildwood Elezen characters in her backstory (both RPers and background characters whom we have developed) who have overlooked or ignored this stigma.  And there have been a few who have adhered to it (such as her old boyfriend's parents and some of her classmates).  I think I'd written a journal entry some time back where Eva was acting as a healer at Stillglade Fane and tending to a Wildwood patient who snapped at her and refused treatment from her and demanded another nurse.  I have tried to keep this somewhat balanced throughout her history.

 

We should be mindful that, though the lore indicates that there is a stereotype and aversion to this particular race/clan, not everyone is going to exhibit that.  Adventurers in particular will probably tend to be a more open-minded lot than most, as well.

[Kari Illderthane]

So I am not good as long post and some of the things I have read here are awesome so now I guess it's my time to say about Kari.

 

So Kari actually can not return to her clan land as her clan was in civil war and the "side" she was apart of lost. So instead of being killed like the rest she managed to flee to the surface world.

 

The approach I wanted to take for Kari was more sort of a survivalist route there was only limited supplies underground so others had to go and steal it from the surface or the splintered clan during when the hours were dark. Nothing was wasted if something could be used in some way then it was an example is the dead were not buried but used to lure out creatures to hunt, so the dead was even serving to help keep their clan strong even in the afterlife.

 

However not all is doom and gloom within in the clan for example Kari's clan respected woman as they were the givers of life. So all woman are referred to as Lady (then insert first name here) It was also rather rude to be looking at a woman without their permission or suggesting they remove some of their clothing as it was considered as disrespect for life it's self.

 

Kari gets by on the surface world by acting polite and smiling as she still doesn't quite understand their ways. The idea I do want to give people is "She seems nice but can I trust her?" Kari normally wears a dress but when she was in her clan lands she was a Lancer instructor to her clan so she does know how to take care of herself but if she had a problem nowadays she would try more subtle means. Although currently she is using her lancer skills just to earn some Gil.

 

Kari cannot deny to herself she does miss her clan lands she remembers some old traditions when she was a child but things like festivals and gatherings she can only vaguely remember as due to the civil war between the splintered clan they couldn't exactly prepare for such things.

 

As for the people hating the Duskwight issue I actually play along with this, in the Skype Rp's I am in I play that the Duskwight is always the first to blame if something goes wrong or happens due to their reputation and the label the other races have placed upon them.

 

Also shameless plug I am creating a Linkshell for Duskwight to gather all the surface world Duskwight together.

[LeCard]

 

 

As for the people hating the Duskwight issue I actually play along with this, in the Skype Rp's I am in I play that the Duskwight is always the first to blame if something goes wrong or happens due to their reputation and the label the other races have placed upon them.

 

Also shameless plug I am creating a Linkshell for Duskwight to gather all the surface world Duskwight together.

 

I like the idea of having "it's the Duskwight's fault" be apart of the stigma. I could easily see someone blaming Rogier like that and he would completely miss why they were blaming him. Rogier has always had the stigma of a pirate father, and living around Limsa that gave him the same type of envirement as a duskwight in Gridania, so he would simply mistake it as a bash against his personal family and not a racist comment.

 

and I would definatly join a Duskwight linkshell, could be interesting to RP some sort of lose affiation with others that way. It could also create an extra point of contact to pull Rogier away from his research and into interaction with others.

 

Eva

---

 

I really love this analysis!!  I sometimes envision it that way too.  To expand a little bit on the living arrangements there, since it was brought up that Duskwights are essentially shunned from Gridania - I don't know if that's necessarily exactly true.  I don't recall seeing many from 1.0 and it's possible there's no NPC's at all - I haven't noticed and admittedly sometimes it's difficult to be able to tell from appearance, particularly with elezens who display fairer skin tones.  I've used this "closeness of appearance" in the past to help explain to myself why Eva might not be as shunned as much others, along with a few other possibilities as mentioned in my previous post (but I accept that some of it may stem from RPer unwillingness to RP a prejudice like that as well, as has also been posited).

 

Eva's father actually became a very wealthy man who initially took up residence in Gridania when she was still a little girl.  They lived in modesty in a shanty at the end of a cul-de-sac despite the wealth, and he was largely invisible for the sake of not tainting the image of his business.  She went to school but had to deal with being different - this didn't help her stress level and she coped by overeating.  Despite the accumulated wealth, these living arrangements remained consistent.

 

There have been a lot of Wildwood Elezen characters in her backstory (both RPers and background characters whom we have developed) who have overlooked or ignored this stigma.  And there have been a few who have adhered to it (such as her old boyfriend's parents and some of her classmates).  I think I'd written a journal entry some time back where Eva was acting as a healer at Stillglade Fane and tending to a Wildwood patient who snapped at her and refused treatment from her and demanded another nurse.  I have tried to keep this somewhat balanced throughout her history.

Eva, it could also be a simple matter of exposure. (not sure how many people in the topic are from the USA, or even more so the south) But something interesting that I have noticed that occurred in the real world is that when the U.S. ruled that segregation was illegal and everyone started to truly live side by side( most importantly I've noticed are the children growing up together), The racist ideas dissipated very quickly (in regards to generations it took to remove). Specifically the Children of today see the stories of racist ideas and occasionally someone on some news program being accused of being racist and they cannot even comprehend why someone would feel that way because they are surrounded by the other races and see that everyone is the same, the smart kids are smart the jocks are jocks etc. but there isn't a category that one race holds claim to.

 

Anyway, back on a more game focused point, Perhaps it is simply that Eva grew up around Wildwoods, and would therefore have potentially picked up some of their culture( even if unintentionally) and the wildwoods that watched her grow up would have of course seen that she didn't fit the sterotype that they thought she would. that could make things in their company lack the racial anxiety that might occur around other wildwoods.

[Teardrop]

 

Also shameless plug I am creating a Linkshell for Duskwight to gather all the surface world Duskwight together.

 

 

and I would definatly join a Duskwight linkshell, could be interesting to RP some sort of lose affiation with others that way. It could also create an extra point of contact to pull Rogier away from his research and into interaction with others.

 

 

This could be something one Duskwight might palm to another secretly in passing...support from the shadows, if you need us, call, and we'll be there 8-)

[FreelanceWizard]

This is a great thread. I'm not playing a duskwight so I don't have much to add there, but I wanted to give some RL info in response to...

 

Eva, it could also be a simple matter of exposure. (not sure how many people in the topic are from the USA, or even more so the south) But something interesting that I have noticed that occurred in the real world is that when the U.S. ruled that segregation was illegal and everyone started to truly live side by side( most importantly I've noticed are the children growing up together), The racist ideas dissipated very quickly (in regards to generations it took to remove). Specifically the Children of today see the stories of racist ideas and occasionally someone on some news program being accused of being racist and they cannot even comprehend why someone would feel that way because they are surrounded by the other races and see that everyone is the same, the smart kids are smart the jocks are jocks etc. but there isn't a category that one race holds claim to.

 

So, um, I live in the southern US, and there's still a lot of racism both institutionalized and casual. It's a lot better in the cities, but there's still a lot of inherent segregation, cultural clash, and "white flight" down here, as well as casual racial tensions and slurs. It gets worse the further away from large population centers you go and, of course, the older people are (inculturation is hard to change). Among the young, it tends to be ignoring racist behaviors and not understanding how they could be considered racist, which is why we have programs like Bridge Builders and the like to try to break down those barriers. I'm not saying that it's not getting better (because we've come a long way from the Reconstruction era), but racism still exists down here.

 

How that applies to the game is that even if wildwood and duskwight have gotten to a better state of relations, there's still going to be some pretty strong bias and stereotypes, especially among the older members of the races. It'll be often institutionalized and casual rather than directly active, though, IMO.

[Eva]

Great discussions so far!  I think it's interesting that we're looking at as being comparable to racism in the USA - something which has changed with time.  While it's all somewhat speculatory, perhaps it is a similar dynamic.

 

Eva, it could also be a simple matter of exposure.

...

Perhaps it is simply that Eva grew up around Wildwoods, and would therefore have potentially picked up some of their culture( even if unintentionally) and the wildwoods that watched her grow up would have of course seen that she didn't fit the sterotype that they thought she would. that could make things in their company lack the racial anxiety that might occur around other wildwoods.

 

This actually makes a great deal of sense.  Apart from looking a bit like a Wildwood and being fairly mild-mannered and friendly, and her father being something of a recluse when he was alive, it's possible that her heritage was somewhat overlooked because she sort of became assimilated (perhaps unintentionally) by Gridanian cultural standards.  She might have just been seen by some as "that chubby elezen girl that worked at the book shop" - and she lived in Gridania for over 20 years so it makes sense that its denizens would have seen her milling about and such.  Perhaps by most of them she wasn't looked upon as a Duskwight, having integrated and been assimilated by that culture.  I could also see where some more traditional Wildwoods (perhaps largely the more elderly) would still harbor resentments in spite of that.  There's a plethora of good excuses for that being overlooked by many - though not all Gridanians (something for which I'm thankful).

 

 

 

Also shameless plug I am creating a Linkshell for Duskwight to gather all the surface world Duskwight together.

 

 

and I would definatly join a Duskwight linkshell, could be interesting to RP some sort of lose affiation with others that way. It could also create an extra point of contact to pull Rogier away from his research and into interaction with others.

 

 

This could be something one Duskwight might palm to another secretly in passing...support from the shadows, if you need us, call, and we'll be there 8-)

 

This is also highly relevent to my interests and I would love to join something like this - but could never be involved with the leadership or management of such a thing for all the IC reasons mentioned here so far.  Eva has spent most of her lifetime being extremely curious about her heritage and origins and she would love to be a part of something like this.  I could also see where she might not integrate with it as fully as some other duskwights, possibly even being ill-regarded by some for not upholding more traditional views, or "fraternizing" with Wildwoods as much as she has.  It's kind of an interesting stance, not fully being able to truly live up to either cultural standard's expectations.  The dynamic reminds me a little of the plight of Worf from the Star Trek franchise in a way, for those who may be familiar with that.

 

But I am extremely interested in this LS concept and can't wait to hear more about it!

[Teardrop]

Well, I think I've said what I have to say regarding the animosity aspect of Duskwight lore, and I think we have a good idea of how this whole concept might fare during actual role play.  

 

Many of you have touched upon your Duskwight's family situation in previous posts.  I've hinted at the social structure of Isobeau's family in both her wiki and her "then and now" story, but I'll spell it out in a little better detail here, so that we might compare our backgrounds to see how they might be like and where they differ  .

 

Clan Mauvaix was an extended family structure, not so much because that is how I view Duskwight families might be normally, but because they conducted labor-heavy mining operations, so pooling family members into one central purpose was beneficial to them all, in order to perform works of a larger-scope than a small single-family pod might.  In Isobeau's background narrative, there has been mention of at least the grandfather, father, uncle, and at least one cousin.  "Clan Miners" were also referred to, who may be additional distant relatives and/or hired hands.  There are almost certainly others in Isobeau's family unit (just, their life circumstances I have not detailed as of yet ).  

 

In her past, prior to the Calamity, I envisioned Isobeau to have spent most of her time underground.  We don't really know if that sort of thing is indeed possible, due to the vagueness of the lore, but I see enough in some of you other's concepts to think that the general consensus is there are actual areas considered "Duskwight lands", or at least enough subterranean space that Duskwights actually could spend their time underground, vs the thought that they merely resided in shallow caves to sleep and shelter, and the remainder of their time is spent much like the Wildwood's might, ranging around upon the surface.  I think there is further support to vast underground caverns and deep enclaves because the Duskwights differentiated themselves from the Wildwood Elezen through evolutionary survival adaptations made no doubt as a result of living the majority of their time underground (during the period those adaptations manifest themselves into the race).  The lore also mentions , a number of Elezen sought out a life of peace and seclusion in the depths of Eorzea's caves and caverns." so one could easily assume from this passage as well that there was more than enough territory for them to retreat into the depths as a whole, and live there in their own solitude.

 

Of course, being able to fit everybody and being able to feed everybody are two different things, and that touches upon another aspect of Duskwight lore; the struggle to survive 8-)

[Kari Illderthane]

This is the current introduction that has been wrote up.

 

Some of us have been taken away from our roots whilst others have had theirs destroyed.  Still others watched those roots coil and turn inward, destroying themselves.  Despite the reason, we've been left to the judgement of the surface world - our culture left behind like a distant memory.  While we laugh and sing with those among us we count as friend, we realize others look upon us with disdain and distrust even after we have given our sweat, our blood, and our tears.  They know nothing of us or the sacrifices we make.

 

We happened upon an old Sanctuary buried beneath the living world.  As much as we wish to stay, we are aware of our obligations to the surface dwellers.  For that, we cannot simply vanish.  We cannot call this place our home.  For abandoning them would serve as moment of culpability, as both our peoples now share the same threats - threats that can mean the end for us all.  Even though this is our heritage - our life - we cannot simply forget who we are or from where we came.  To forget would be among the greatest of crimes.  Though what we may have found was little more than mere ruins, there was something far greater that we discovered within ourselves.  Something which no building or walls could ever provide.  We learned that together we form our own Sanctuary.  We may all hail from different clans, but it is together that we now open our doors to you.  This world is a dangerous place as we all have well borne witness to.  The surface dwellers speak of survival in numbers and there is wisdom in these words.  Come to us in the last bell before the new dawn and we shall welcome you in the shade of the Midnight Sanctuary.

 

So yea that's the current introduction I wrote up with Eva cleaning it up for me :love:

whilst getting feedback from Yssen and Xenedra. So now I want to hear what you people think. here is a few things that come to mind after talking with people.

 

1.First off I envision this Linkshell as a secondary Linkshell.

 

2. We don't talk about fight clu-sorry Midnight Sanctuary.

 

3.We are Duskwight, we are kin we are not above or below each other why? because we are Duskwight.

 

4.If thy brother or sister is in need of aid then thy shall answer the call.

 

5. Don't do anything foolish as your actions can cost us all.

 

Well that's my sort of ideas at the moment, I am also in the works of planning a festival of Duskwight culture and would love to gather your ideas as well.

[Teardrop]

Response to a comment left on my "Fate Will Find You" story (see points 3 & 4 of Kari's post above ):

 

RE: Fate Will Find You [story] | 

#7

Yesterday 03:51 PM(This post was last modified: Yesterday 03:52 PM by Teardrop.)

 

That was quite an adventure! Very bold for the rescuers to go back into a collapsed mine right after such a destructive event above ground!

 

As word of the destruction wrought by Bahamut's flight of terror upon the surface of Eorzea reached the surviving clan miners, relatives and mates of those trapped below, when faced with the choice to aid those who dwelt in the nearby town, or begin the hazardous excavation along Nymeia's apron string, the remaining Elezen of Clan Mauvaix spoke as one.

 

"We are Duskwight.  Rhalgr take the surface, there are clansmen to bring home  !"

[Kyatai]

:love:

I would join the Midnight Sanctuary LS as well.

And... I absolutely love this discussion. I had EVERY intent on working on my characters' bios tonight- but got caught up in Calli's Miqo'te thread and this one. haha

Both... very awesome, very good discussions on the two types of "races" looks like I'm gunna be playing.

 

I'm getting excited.

I can't wait to work with you all on this!

 

Lastly... not to derail the subject at hand, regarding LeCard's (and Freelance Wizard's) comments about the correlation of race in the US to Wildwood vs Duskwright, few things:

IRL-

I also live in the Southern US...

In addition to being a Military brat and traveling RN...

And it is my observation that through my travels not only living in the South, but all over the US, that though racism does exist (some very blatant)... it is absolutely NOT isolated to the South. In fact, I found much more of it in the Midwest and North than the South. The South just gets more attention and are more demonized due to history. But also makes us far more sensitive to NOT being racist. And in this, I'm talking specifically of "white vs black."

 

As an anthropologist, I find the topic of division based on skin color to be absolutely ludicrous. One's skin color has absolutely nothing to do with the mental capabilities of a person. Genetics DOES have a 'say' in this, and in physical abilities and so on- but face it, folks... Earth is made up of mutts. ESPECIALLY in America. It is my belief that if the pot was not continued to be stirred by those wishing to continue to place a dividing line between skin shades, that people just wouldn't care anymore before long. I mean, really... culture is what divides us, not skin color. That is seen clearly in lightskinned 'African Americans', 'Latino Americians' and 'Native Americans' and ... and 'Caucasian Americans' who were raised as a member of another racial culture. You are who your culture/family raised you to be. Skin color is simply an evolutionary adaptation to the amount of cloud cover of our ancestors. And... we are all slowly becoming a shade of brown.

Tl;dr- Dividing folks based on skin color is asinine.

 

SO!

Relevance to this discussion: Considering that in the US had a variety of 'desegregation' episodes with the most recent being the African Americans in the 1960's, I have to correlate my beliefs and observations to Eorzea. Today, 40 years later, there are still lingering 'senses' of feelings of racism threaded throughout, but it is not always 'black vs white' or 'white vs black'. It is not always blatant- in fact, it is rarely so anymore. There are pockets of pure hatred on either side, but those pockets tend to keep to the background and only rear their ugly heads at times of duress/perceived duress. There is legislation that passively favors one over the other. There are jobs/opportunities that are offered (or removed) based on skin color... but it is typically subtle for fear of reprecussions.

Now... will Eorzea be similiar?

One ponders.

 

In Gridania, I see the racism to be more overt. More violent and insulting. But heck- the Wildwood seem pretty racist and resistant against ANYONE that is not 'one of them'- DW or not. I mean... granted... my DW starting city -was- Gridania on Balmung Beta... but I also started a Miqo there, and she got the same treatment. So here? yeah... oppression is likely. Torches and pitchforks if you don't behave EXACTLY as told. And... I wager skin tone would play a huge role in this as well. If an Elezen could 'pass' as Wildwood (much like a lightskinned African American during the '60's and even back to the time of the Civil War), they would be treated better. Given more opportunities. Perhaps the 'truth of their birth' being ignored (until such time as it was more beneficial/profitable to bring it up and 'knock them down a notch'). Which, IMHO, could give creedence to Eva's character's experiences.

 

In Ul'Dah, I sense a more cosmopolitan and globally accepting attitude. No one seemed to care one way or the other what 'race' you were... And oppression here would likely be met negatively. Or at the very most, be subtle- perhaps in the form of pricing of goods.

Cannot speak for Limsa...

 

So it is not inconceivable that similar feelings might exist in Eorzea as do on Earth... or even less so. I mean, we're talking segregation and hostilities between Wildwood and Duskwright taking place hundreds of years ago- not mere 40. But we're also talking about recent wars/calamities drawing us all together again... and perhaps stirring the pot again and old resentments/traditional hatreds resurfacing. Especially as Elezen are said to live a bit longer than Hyur, so the 'hundreds of years ago' separation might not be as 'distant' as it might be for a Hyur.

 

Now... if the pot was continued to be stirred by the DW's (WW are traitors, betrayed our Elezen cultures, weakened themselves to cater to the Hyur, etc) and the WW (DW are arrogant, cowardly, thieves, backstabbers, etc), then  we could see hostilities now. But I seriously doubt outright prejudice would be tolerated... well, not in Ul'dah anyway. (I really can NOT speak to Gridania as I did not spend ANY time there in Beta past L2...) I suppose the only lingering global 'prejudice' might merely be based on stereotype: all DW are thieves and backstabbers.

 

So... post went on longer than I planned. Apologies.

 

Oh... but wanted to add: no one should ever feel uncomfortable RPing racism or prejudice or whatever against my DW. If it is in your character's nature and RP to do so, do it. IC is IC, OOC is OOC. I will not color my OOC opinion of you based on your IC character's behaviour.

In fact... well Ok I might be lying. I might actually like you MORE for causing a bit of conflict and challenge into my RP. haha

[LeCard]

(numbers added for clarity of my post)

1)Lastly... not to derail the subject at hand, regarding LeCard's (and Freelance Wizard's) comments about the correlation of race in the US to Wildwood vs Duskwright, few things:

IRL-

I also live in the Southern US...

In addition to being a Military brat and traveling RN...

 

As an anthropologist, I find the topic of division based on skin color to be absolutely ludicrous. One's skin color has absolutely nothing to do with the mental capabilities of a person. Genetics DOES have a 'say' in this, and in physical abilities and so on- but face it, folks... Earth is made up of mutts. ESPECIALLY in America.

Tl;dr- Dividing folks based on skin color is asinine.

 

SO!

2)In Gridania, I see the racism to be more overt. More violent and insulting. But heck- the Wildwood seem pretty racist and resistant against ANYONE that is not 'one of them'- DW or not. I mean... granted... my DW starting city -was- Gridania on Balmung Beta... but I also started a Miqo there, and she got the same treatment. So here? yeah... oppression is likely. Torches and pitchforks if you don't behave EXACTLY as told.

 

And... I wager skin tone would play a huge role in this as well. If an Elezen could 'pass' as Wildwood (much like a lightskinned African American during the '60's and even back to the time of the Civil War), they would be treated better. Given more opportunities. Perhaps the 'truth of their birth' being ignored (until such time as it was more beneficial/profitable to bring it up and 'knock them down a notch'). Which, IMHO, could give creedence to Eva's character's experiences.

 

3)In Ul'Dah, I sense a more cosmopolitan and globally accepting attitude. No one seemed to care one way or the other what 'race' you were... And oppression here would likely be met negatively. Or at the very most, be subtle- perhaps in the form of pricing of goods.

Cannot speak for Limsa...

 

4)Now... if the pot was continued to be stirred by the DW's (WW are traitors, betrayed our Elezen cultures, weakened themselves to cater to the Hyur, etc) and the WW (DW are arrogant, cowardly, thieves, backstabbers, etc), then  we could see hostilities now. But I seriously doubt outright prejudice would be tolerated... well, not in Ul'dah anyway. (I really can NOT speak to Gridania as I did not spend ANY time there in Beta past L2...) I suppose the only lingering global 'prejudice' might merely be based on stereotype: all DW are thieves and backstabbers.

 

First off, awesome post

 

1) It is nice to see thoughts on this from someone who has had the chance to see the USA from multiple areas and can really speak to a better view of how things are. also "Dividing folks based on skin color is asinine." seconded and great word choice.

 

anyways back to dealing directly with the game...

 

2)I rolled out a WW in phase three and got exactly the same treatment as the Miqo'te I rolled in phase 2, so I will confirm that it doesn't matter what you are, if you are not from Gridania everyone is hated.

 

3) also cannot speak to Limsa (saved that story line for Rogier to explore and be fresh) But I imagine that Ul'Dah could care less what you are as long as your rich. as far as oppression goes, I think as long as someone has less money than you people might look the other way and just call it putting the person in their place.

 

4) It would be interesting to see if there are factions that are stirring things up again, or if there are groups working to remove any negative rifts. definitely an aspect to play with for some great RP.

 

I am so happy to see so much discussion here. keep up the good posts everyone.

[Teardrop]

You know, I made a conscientious effort to keep my example and argument within the game's realm and away from the obvious (yet appropriate) real life parallels, because I just didn't want to open that can of worms...others can venture forth where I had chosen not to tread, though 

 

But again, I will summarize, at least in game based on the lore, what I feel is the current situation.  There have been a couple remarks to the fact that the level of conflict probably isn't currently all that great, or the majority of Elezen (either clan) don't harbor such ill will in the majority, be it as a result of living with others, or a simple mellowing over time. I simply don't think the comments in the lore bear that concept out.  There was conflict between Elezen and Hyur in the past, and the lore actually mentions the fact that their relations have improved to the point where they can work and live in peace (this is where things probably more along the lines of Kyatai's comment regarding " talking segregation and hostilities...taking place hundreds of years ago- not mere 40'.) ...but that is not the case with the Wildwood and Duskwights.  The feelings are presented as being current in the lore, not past tense (the situations that caused the strain may be past-tense, but the resulting tension isn't ).  There's no reason to think the resentments might have diminished, because, unlike Hyur/Elezen, its not even implied.  Again, though, its animosity, not open clan warfare.  The two clans are obviously able to interact...its just a matter of how they feel about the interactions that's the issue.

 

Supporting Kyatai's and LeCard's comments, its already in my character concept that Isobeau spends more time in, and feels more comfortable with her dealings in Ul'dah than elsewhere.  The mining and goldsmith guilds are there, and it seems that gil glosses over many issues 8-).  I'm not sure "oppression" would be ruthlessly stamped out in Ul'dah, because don't they have their own intimidating syndicates that like to keep everyone in line using fear and whatnot :lol: ?  What I think would happen is more of a blind-eye towards anything unless it interrupts the smooth transfer of gil from customer to guild coffers .  Is a vendor on merchant row going to jump out of a stall and yell "Hey, stop calling that Duskwight a 'grey', that's mean...we don't tolerate that here!"?  Well, I'd think it would go more along the lines of "Hey, can you wait a minute before trying to pick that fight?  We're doing business here..." .

 

Being a military veteran of 8 years myself, and spending literally more time sleeping in a hotel in a year than my own home working around the US in my current job, I'll break out my "seen it all" chops and compare them with anyone .  But I think that's one of the big problems about why this particular issue, regarding the game-lore inclusion of racial animosity, is so difficult for role-players to comfortably implement into their game-play.  Real-world sensibilities seem to not be able to be left at the door, so we get situations in the community culture where its often frowned upon when someone wants to follow the obvious intention of the designers of the lore, and convolutions are made to explain away the situation...the actual role play experience of some shows that this is the case, and in actuality, most often the norm (as Twinflame pointed out in his example from RIFT). We have nothing to base the thought that citizens of Eorzea would speak out immediately as champions of diversity and not suffer or tolerate racial tension in the least...it doesn't play out in NPC conversation, and it certainly doesn't play out in the lore; the opposite is written in the lore itself.  Real world sensibilities of the planet Earth might demand such response, but we can't find good example of that to be the case in Hydaelyn.

 

Really though, its simply a matter of, like anything presented for the player to deal with as background and lore, its merely a matter of personal choice on how one chooses to deal with it.  You either take it at face value, ignore it, or interpret it in various ways to fit within your concept and play style.  Here, I'll even put this in blue for emphasis, so if nothing else is taken away, the above can be :roll:

 

I'm heartened by the fact that many in this thread are welcoming the exploration of this particular aspect of the Duskwight's existence .  Anyone who would read this thread would know our intention is not to become a disruptive group, but rather to stay authentic to the current situation of most Elezen as presented in the lore, and to be open to using this as a role play opportunity with not just other Duskwight and Wildwood, but with other races. " You Mi'qote seem to get along well together, and you don't understand why we don't?  Let me tell you the story of my people 8-)"

[Yssen]

Hokay. Seems I am a bit late to the party. I blame being busy and sick. Apologies. Going to touch on a few points on Duskwight stuff from my perspective a bit later. I will probably repeating what some people have already said, but I am playing a bit of catch up. Please bear with me just a little. 

 

First thing is first, background. While I would love to spell out all of the details of Yssen's background for you all, it contains secrets. So. I will be redacting some bits and pieces and leaving only the Duskwight specific bits for you all to chew on. Yssen and his sister Ysa are twins. Both grew up in the underground with other Duskwights, and both were orphaned at around the age of four. They lived among Duskwights, looking out for each other as pretty much homeless orphans until...

 

*REDACTED*

 

Yssen came up to the surface around the age of nineteen, and became active as a thief and bandit in Ul'dah. He even ran around with some of the Duskwight bandit and mercenary groups on the surface for quite some time. This lasts until about a year before the Calamity when Yssen starts being involved with Shimmersong for... reasons. 

 

Yssen is proud of his Duskwight heritage, and wears the popular stigma of the tribe like a badge of honor. He is not fond Wildwoods, particularly when they point out his being a Duskwight. Yssen plays by his own rules, and abides only by his own sense of morality. He makes his living on his own terms, and in general he refuses to conform to "surface society." One could consider him to be a living embodiment of the "Duskwights are all thieves and con-men" stereotype, and that is perfectly OK with him. Who the hell cares what outsiders think of him anyways. ;p

 

That is all for the back ground bits. Duskwight thoughts to come later.

[Yssen]

Yeah... I know. This is probably one post after another, but I felt it best to split the answer to the "what is your background" question from my general thoughts on what it is to be a Duskwight. So. Here we go. Apologies if I bring up some already made points. 

 

1. Duskwights are an outsider culture. It seems pretty darn clear that the Duskwights have a separate culture that does not fold into the norm with the rest of "society as a whole." They are reclusive and elusive to outsiders, and there are plenty of examples that a large contingent of them refuse to live within the bounds of regular society. They have a tendency to make their livings as bandit, thieves, and mercenaries. This point is backed up by both NPC dialogue and how Duskwight NPCs are presented to us in the game. Duskwight Mercenary, Bandit, etc are all labels placed on a lot of Duskwights one encounters in the world. NPC dialogue often points to the fact that most Duskwights are known for engaging in such work on the surface. One is free to draw one's own conclusions, but this stands as a pretty big example that most Duskwights are exactly what most people thing they are. I tend to think that this points to the tribe having a quite different set of ethics and morals than the rest of society, from a cultural stand point. There are a lot of parallels to real life outsider cultures that can be drawn from the various dialogue bits to be found in the game on them. Romani, Travelers, Native Americans, and many other cultures that hold onto their identity while co-existing with the mainstream culture come to mind. In short, Duskwights have their own culture, and it would seem that most of them refuse to assimilate to mainstream society.

 

2. Duskwights face a LOT of prejudice. The stigma placed on Duskwights is not just limited to the Wildwoods. They are referred to as dirty, thieving, untrustworthy, and worse by many NPCs elezen and non-elezen alike. This sentiment seems to be highest in Gridania, but is by no means limited to that region. They are referred to as murderous bandits in Ul'dah and filthy pirates in Limsa. There are fewer NPCs that bring this up in quests and other such in the other non-Gridania areas, but it is still a sentiment that has spread all over Eorzea proper. 

 

3. The Duskwights have left various underground ruins/cities laying around. There is a major one being studied in Gridania that was uncovered by the Calamity. There were hints in 1.0 that places like Toto Rak, and the Tam Tara Deepcroft, and the Mun-tuy Cellars were at one time Duskwight structures that were abandoned and re-purposed. These specific places in Gridania were possibly abandoned during the conflict that arose surrounding the founding of Gridania, one of the sources of bad blood between the two elezen tribes. Hits of other settlements and underground places in Coerthas can also be inferred from 1.0 dialogue. Particularly the Dragoon quest. There is really no other mention of possible Duskwight ruins or settlements in any of the other regions. Hopefully more will unfold about these various locations and possible others.

 

4. Large amounts of Duskwights being on the surface seems to be a recent development. Now, by recent developement, I mean in like the past fifty or sixty years or so. This is also not to say that there were never any Duskwight on the surface before then. Lore seems to point to a bit of a large influx during the above time period. I think this leads a bit into why they face so much prejudice. They are a reclusive and insular people that are just now being more and more exposed to mainstream society. People fear what they don't understand and all that jazz.

 

These are the things I can think of at the moment, but it all leads to some pretty interesting places I think. A couple closing notes. I LOVE the idea of a Duskwight only LS. I think it would add some very very interesting RP. I also think that there is interesting RP to be had between those Duskwight that cling to their cultural identity, and those that seek to be more assimilated. Lets keep the ideas and the discussion going. I like what I am seeing so far.