Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view

[Myxie Tryxle]

I’ll be specifically describing the biological basis for these mating systems.  Politics and sociology are not my fields of expertise, so there is plenty of room for these systems to be complicated by morality and ethics.

I'm enjoying the open dialog this discussion has bolstered.  Most of the criticism seems to be stemming from the concerns which inspired me to write these two lines.  Personally, I'm expecting a wide spectrum of potential cultures for Miqo'te to choose from, from the lost "# tribe" full of cannibals and baby-killers to the new "$ tribe" of highly refined and culturally sophisticated city-dwellers.  As one poster stated, modern humans share very similar biology with the ancient Spartans (or Incas, or Maori, or Romans, etc.) but vastly different cultures and values.  In my mind, biology changes very slowly while culture changes very quickly.  It's up to you the player to decide where you fall on the cultural spectrum and how it has influenced your character and their tribe.  I specifically avoided cultural and political ideas because there's too many for me to quickly and justly describe, plus it's not my place to define that important aspect of your character or their tribe.  My goal was to provide a rational foundation of biology upon which others could build based on their own interpretations of culture and individualism.

 

Personally I want this to foster interesting RP, and good stories are driven by conflict.  Culture clash leads to conflict, which is why I'm suggesting that Miqo'te culture should clash a little with what we consider normal human culture.  If it does, we'll likely develop some awesome stories out of it.  If we don't challenge the basic assumption that "Miqo'te culture is likely very similar to human culture because the devs that are writing it are human," we can't explore all the possibilities.  In my mind, there's every reason to believe that a feline race would be culturally and biologically different from hominid races, and that this difference would be a good thing from a roleplaying perspective.

 

About the notion of killing the old nunh's children when you take over a tribe, I included that because a quest option exists that every character will encounter that complicates the issue.  You're welcome to interpret it however you like.  I included it for those who may not have leveled up to level 25 in the beta yet, thus hadn't encountered it.  Personally, I envision a scenario similar to the New World, where Christian missionaries put a great deal of effort into stamping out the ancient practices of blood sacrifice.  It probably doesn't happen now, but may have happened in the past, and may still happen in some lost, undiscovered tribe.

 

The idea of elder females pulling the strings of Seeker tribes to determine which males become nunhs is one that I alluded to, but didn't really endorse strongly.  Given that there are 26 different tribes, I envision a spectrum here.  One tribe may have males who rule with an iron fist where the females are completely subservient.  Another may have powerful elder females and no male can even hope to become a nunh without garnering endorsement from at least one of these matriarchs.  It's up to the players to decide where their tribe falls on this spectrum, and I expect this will lead to some very interesting struggles and RP storylines.

 

As for those who are uncomfortable that I've boiled the entire race down to a few underlying biological principles, I offer this wikipedia page on human mating systems and behavior.  I'm personally of the opinion that humans are not nearly as divorced from nature as many would like to believe.  I'm also incredibly envious of those who have a more positive outlook on life and deeper faith in the notion of free will, as my own cynical perspective hasn't done me any favors in terms of my psychological well-being (positive people live longer, happier lives).  I can see how my point of view would seem presumptuous to an idealist.

 

Also, a lot of the inconsistencies between this microcosm and real world biology are necessities of developing a video game.  Game devs are artists and writers, not scientists.  The idea that male Seekers should be larger or male Keepers more flamboyant while female Keepers more drab likely never occurred to them, and even if it did was ignored because of deadlines, budget, player protest (why are these female Keepers so drab, that's not fair!) and other real world factors.   But since I can't be playing the game at the moment, I spend my time thinking and writing about it.

---

Recent (Sub)Speciation of the Miqo’te Clans

 

*snip**snip**snip*

 

This section, I'd like to discuss! You have sound reasoning, but I think that you left out one big detail about the difference between Keepers and Seekers that could have completely altered your conclusion.

I actually wasn't aware of these differences, so you raise a good point.  As far as differences in coloration, pattern, or the length of the tail go, these sorts of adaptations don't take long to develop, as you're altering an existent trait rather than gaining a new one.  Still, it's probably on the order of tens to hundreds of generations.  As I mentioned in a post above this one, the traits I'm ascribing to a short time-frame are likely things the devs didn't even consider, so you're probably right.

[Faiz]

I feel as though I learned a fair bit having read this thread and most of its posts. My character however wouldn't be abiding by any of this due to how and who he was raised by. I'm that small percentage that maaay be looked down upon for having a male Miqo'te who knows nothing about the clans, his culture, etc. ^^;

[Nox]

So far it's been my experience in RP that Miqo'te characters are either totally tribal or have no attachment or conflict with their heritage whatsoever (aside from Ryanti - one of the largest aspects of his character is his conflict with his heritage). I think there's a lot of interesting inner and outer RP conflict between the two lifestyles that is being largely ignored by the greater part of the RP community, in some part due to the OOC rejection and/or dislike for what little tribal lore SE has given us.

 

I similarly bemoan this. IMO, miqo'te should have strong opinions regarding their tribal culture, and that should generate some conflict RP. I don't really see how a miqo'te who's aware of the culture couldn't have a strong opinion about it -- and those who came from tribal culture probably have some conflicted feelings about the city-state/adventurer cultures, and probably miss some of the elements of their home culture (such as, y'know, not seeing all of their fellow Seeker women being exotic sex workers). I know that I've, at least, tried to integrate these into my character's personality and backstory, though she generally doesn't make a big deal about it openly unless prompted.

 

I generally agree, but would appear a hypocrite if you were to read about my character right now. X'sato was born so far removed from his cultural heritage, that he only knows about it through stories that are 3 generations old. I'm saving the culture clash for IC and in game, when he meets his tribal brethren for, pretty much, the first time ever. That being said, he doesn't have strong feelings about it, per se. He's not uncaring about it, in fact he doesn't much care for the culture of his tribal relatives. However, he acknowledges that he knows so little, that he has to actually discover more before he can really say, basically, "yeah, forget that."

[FreelanceWizard]

(such as, y'know, not seeing all of their fellow Seeker women being exotic sex workers)

 

This could actually be a consequence of how insignificant sex is too them culturally, we just don't know.

 

That's a fair point, but I think it may apply better to Keepers than Seekers. My logic is that tribal Seeker culture does have a lot of stated strictures regarding sexuality, so it probably isn't viewed as insignificant. If it were, you wouldn't have such restricted access to it. So, someone coming from that culture would probably be displeased to see their women violating those rules.

 

For instance, regularly hooking up with a single "sugar daddy," so to speak, would probably be close enough to their native culture that it'd get a pass, but fornicating with anyone who tosses you some coin or a wink, as opposed to the strongest or richest (the "nunhs," so to speak)? That'd probably rub a once tribal Seeker the wrong way unless they've completely turned their back on their previous culture. Even then, inculturated norms can be hard to break.

 

But, of course, every character is different, and not everyone is going to run into these sort of "stranger in a strange land" issues, depending on how comfortable they were with their culture before, how much they like their new culture (and their position in it), etc. Of course, maybe miqo'te just readily adapt to other cultures, which explains why the NPCs in the city-states are so different from the lore... or maybe the miqo'te in the city-states are really a segregated population that's been there for a while and assimilated already, and the tribals are the especially rare ones at this point.

 

I'm saving the culture clash for IC and in game, when he meets his tribal brethren for, pretty much, the first time ever. That being said, he doesn't have strong feelings about it, per se. He's not uncaring about it, in fact he doesn't much care for the culture of his tribal relatives. However, he acknowledges that he knows so little, that he has to actually discover more before he can really say, basically, "yeah, forget that."

 

There's nothing wrong with that at all. Your character falls into the category of "doesn't really know about the culture," which is itself something of a strong stance towards it.

[Gone4everbye]

I feel as though I learned a fair bit having read this thread and most of its posts.  My character however wouldn't be abiding by any of this due to how and who he was raised by.  I'm that small percentage that maaay be looked down upon for having a male Miqo'te who knows nothing about the clans, his culture, etc.  ^^;

I think that actually puts you in the majority. I've seen way more city-dwelling Miqo'te males than traditional tribal males, both among Seekers and Keepers.

[Myxie Tryxle]

I just wanted to know where you heard that Keepers are nomadic? If you mean they move about the Black Shroud, I suppose that's possible. But there is no mention in the lore anywhere about the Keepers of the Moon being nomads at all. I've heard that about Lalafell lore, and you could certainly argue that some Seeker tribes could be nomadic, it fits. But all the lore supports the Keepers staying pretty well rooted within the Black Shroud. Unless you mean they don't settle in just one place within the Shroud. I could see that, but I still haven't seen that stated in the lore yet.

 

If it is in there somewhere, I would be very interested in reading about it.

This is based on information I found on several wikis. I'll link them below.

 

The top section labeled "Miqo'te" on this page.

 

The "demeanor" section on this page.

 

And this page on the official website.

 

The territorial assertion conflicts a little bit with the notion of nomadicism. To clarify, I feel it is likely that the males are nomadic, moving around between small family groups of females and children. This at least is how I'm interpreting the backstory for my character and her youth.

---

I feel as though I learned a fair bit having read this thread and most of its posts.  My character however wouldn't be abiding by any of this due to how and who he was raised by.  I'm that small percentage that maaay be looked down upon for having a male Miqo'te who knows nothing about the clans, his culture, etc.  ^^;

I think that actually puts you in the majority. I've seen way more city-dwelling Miqo'te males than traditional tribal males, both among Seekers and Keepers.

 

I'm of the opinion that a lot of this is happening in some sort of off-screen or behind the curtain manner. For example, if you go outside Ul'dah, there's a single farm, whereas outside Limsa, there's quite a few farms and orchards. Is one farm supporting the entire populace of Ul'dah? Probably not. The vast majority of populations for all these races are never seen, because a truly realistic world would be too expansive to be captured in the game. The major cities, however, need that sort of description.

[AeonicVortex]

I wonder where love fits into all of this, and how its view.  It seems like in Miqo'te culture, love takes a way side.  As a Seeker, you mate with Nunh's, whether you love them or not.

 

As a Keeper, the females pick the males that please them most, I believe.  I suppose this could have a bit more room for love.

 

In a Seeker society though, what happens when a female falls in love with a Tia?  It it frowned on or scorned?  Even worse, what if they have children together?  Are they banished from the tribe, or allowed to stay?

 

It seems like in either society, since there are far less males, that lesbian relationships may also be quite common.  Sure, they use a male to have children, but that may not be whom actually raises them.

 

Hmm...

[Xeon]

I wonder where love fits into all of this, and how its view.  It seems like in Miqo'te culture, love takes a way side.  As a Seeker, you mate with Nunh's, whether you love them or not.

 

As a Keeper, the females pick the males that please them most, I believe.  I suppose this could have a bit more room for love.

 

In a Seeker society though, what happens when a female falls in love with a Tia?  It it frowned on or scorned?  Even worse, what if they have children together?  Are they banished from the tribe, or allowed to stay?

 

It seems like in either society, since there are far less males, that lesbian relationships may also be quite common.  Sure, they use a male to have children, but that may not be whom actually raises them.

 

Hmm...

 

I don't got any masters or anything in... anything. But perhaps its a matter of tradition vd outside influence? I mean perhaps the more influential older tribes go by the old ways whilst the younger tribes and newer generations would go about it like what we would look at as the normal, With love and marriage and all that. 

 

Think its the same about homosexuality and out of race/clan relations, its frowned upon by the elder tribes whilst its more accepted by the not so old.

 

While there obviously is influence from the outside, it is still "Possible" that what is said in the first post is still true in some regions.

 

-Xeon

[Desmond Aryll]

I wonder where love fits into all of this, and how its view.  It seems like in Miqo'te culture, love takes a way side.  As a Seeker, you mate with Nunh's, whether you love them or not.

 

In a Seeker society though, what happens when a female falls in love with a Tia?  It it frowned on or scorned?  Even worse, what if they have children together?  Are they banished from the tribe, or allowed to stay?

 

Hmm...

 

I think that as another contributor wrote (sorry this is a long discussion to track you down ;p) the Tia's living within the tribe could be tolerated by the Nuhn if there were harmless to his power, like a relative.

 

Maybe love could exist between an innocuous Tia and a female. Of course their love would be openly platonic in a way we, as largely monogamous Humans wouldn't understand and would be separate from breeding. Also more traditional love might provoke Miqo'te couples to leave the tribe, causing all kinds of great RP possibilities.

 

This whole Miqo'te societal structure thing is fascinating.

[Desphiria]

I have one simple question, why are you putting logic into a video game? That's all I gotta say. It's a game, have fun. We don't need to put logic into everything. It's a fantasy game, why is everyone worrying about this?

 

If you don't like what's going on in the lore then change it and make up your own rules or play a different race.

[allgivenover]

"Worry" implies anxiety. I'm not anxious about this. Some of us really enjoy speculating on fabricated world settings. This is part of that. Just as with a good book that has a believably well thought out world setting, and yes that includes applying logic in many cases, some of us like to debate the particulars of our entertainment. It's just a preference thing, no one is forcing those who would rather not "worry" about it to come read all of this.

[Naunet]

I wonder where love fits into all of this, and how its view.  It seems like in Miqo'te culture, love takes a way side.  As a Seeker, you mate with Nunh's, whether you love them or not.

 

Well, female Seekers still pick their mate. There are a couple Nunhs in a tribe, so either they pick one they like and have kids, or they don't have kids. OR they decide they like a Tia best and perhaps they set off to start their own tribe (which we know is an acceptable way for a Tia to become a Nunh).

[allgivenover]

There's no reason to believe that they don't love. It just has different cultural connotations for them, not necessarily tied to exclusive sexual access.

[Myxie Tryxle]

I'll throw out a little math to display why the modern notion of love is impractical (not impossible though). Let's assume that for every male Miqo'te there are three female Miqo'te. If they start pairing up monogamously, you're going to run out of males very quickly. Two out of three females (which accounts for 50% of the total population) will be left without a mate. That's a massive crisis! It's more likely mainstream Miqo'te society views sex as being different from love, similar to how many human cultures practiced arranged marriages. Love would likely fill more of a "best friends" or blood-brothers sort of role, and may not involve sex at all.

 

Now given that a lot of people will be playing Miqo'te because Miqo'te are cool, but still want to engage in a little bit of romantic RP, there will be exceptions. Exceptions that are likely lead to a lot of gossip, intrigue, and conflict, which is fantastic from an RP standpoint. It's also inevitable due to the culture clash between Miqo'te and other races. A few young Miqo'te will no doubt see how Hyur behave and ask "Why can't I find a best friend who is also a suitable lover?"

 

As for a tia stealth breeding under the nunh's nose, there are a number of possible outcomes. First, he can get away with it, which is something you see happen to some degree in species with a harem mating structure. Particularly clever males can get in a little bit of breeding under the nose of the patriarch. Perhaps the nunh finds out and challenges the tia. There are two possible outcomes. One is that the tia wins the challenge and gains a breeding position. I would expect this to happen rather frequently, as there are bound to be a lot of tia out there vying for breeding rights. The other outcome is the tia loses, at which point we begin wrestling again with the question of does the nunh kill the loser (in this case an insubordinate tia) and the illegitimate offspring? I suppose a third possible outcome is tia and female take a cue from the Hyur and elope, but that would be highly controversial (and some fantastic storyline).

 

In case I haven't made it clear yet in my follow-up posts, part of the reason I started this discussion is to establish an understanding of Miqo'te culture so people could break away from tradition and build some awesome RP. It sounds like several of you were already planning to have your character struggling with new culture versus traditional tribal values, and that's great!

[Myxie Tryxle]

I have one simple question, why are you putting logic into a video game? That's all I gotta say. It's a game, have fun. We don't need to put logic into everything. It's a fantasy game, why is everyone worrying about this?

 

If you don't like what's going on in the lore then change it and make up your own rules or play a different race.

 

Personally, I'm doing this because I'd like to be a published writer. The book I'm reading at the moment by Orson Scott Card describes his method for building strong, believable settings as a backdrop for your stories, so this is largely an intellectual exercise to improve my skills as a writer. I would equate it to the artists practicing their drawing in other posts. Writing is a craft, and this is one way to practice the art.

 

The other reason is I've gotten a large amount of feedback, both on this thread and the thread about inbreeding that spawned this effort, as well as a number of private messages from several users asking me to keep it up or elaborate on certain points. In the current absence of lore, people are hungry for this sort of discussion, and it's fun to speculate. Along the lines of "it's a game, just have fun," this is fun to me. I'm thoroughly enjoying these discussions on the forum and happy to have found a community where I can have an intellectual discussion without it devolving into a flame war or dueling memes.

 

Lastly, I work as a teacher and it's summer break, so I have a lot of time on my hands.

[Naunet]

I'll throw out a little math to display why the modern notion of love is impractical (not impossible though).  Let's assume that for every male Miqo'te there are three female Miqo'te.  If they start pairing up monogamously, you're going to run out of males very quickly.

 

Ah, you're showing a bias here. Love is not exclusive to monogamy.

 

 

Callipygian

The other outcome is the tia loses, at which point we begin wrestling again with the question of does the nunh kill the loser (in this case an insubordinate tia) and the illegitimate offspring?  I suppose a third possible outcome is tia and female take a cue from the Hyur and elope, but that would be highly controversial (and some fantastic storyline).

 

 

I mentioned this earlier, but one of the legitimate ways for a Tia to become a Nunh is to take a female or two and go start his own tribe.

 

I highly doubt a Nunh would outright kill a Tia who tried to mate "under his nose", much less kill any children sired by that Tia. Back to the whole miqo'te are a sentiant, cultured, abstract-thought-and-morality-capable species.

[AeonicVortex]

I didn't post my thoughts here because I'm necessarily worried about it. I posted it because sometimes I really like to know what makes people tick, and the reason they, or even a society acts the way they do.  I'm not interested in every little detail, or what not, but something like this is strange enough to catch my interest.

 

Its fun!

[ArmachiA]

Ah, you're showing a bias here. Love is not exclusive to monogamy.

 

Truth, I have many friends in my Burlesque circle who are married and poly-amorous.

 

As for the subject... I have to admit it reminds me a bit of the thread in the Mass Effect forums where a dude broke down what he thought Tali, a character in the game, sweat tasted like

 

http://biowarefans.blogspot.com/2011/08/talis-sweat.html

 

This is heading in that direction.

[Myxie Tryxle]

 

Callipygian

The other outcome is the tia loses, at which point we begin wrestling again with the question of does the nunh kill the loser (in this case an insubordinate tia) and the illegitimate offspring?  I suppose a third possible outcome is tia and female take a cue from the Hyur and elope, but that would be highly controversial (and some fantastic storyline).

 

 

I mentioned this earlier, but one of the legitimate ways for a Tia to become a Nunh is to take a female or two and go start his own tribe.

 

I highly doubt a Nunh would outright kill a Tia who tried to mate "under his nose", much less kill any children sired by that Tia. Back to the whole miqo'te are a sentiant, cultured, abstract-thought-and-morality-capable species.

 

The way the scenario with the tia and the female was described, I read it as them being outcast or running off to avoid conflict with the nunh. It's unlikely any other females would follow as he would likely be viewed as a coward and also unlikely any other Seekers would consider an outcast pair a new tribe.

 

It also expresses a bias to assume that modern Western morality should be the expected norm for Miqo'te. Given that they've segregated their males into two groups (a few worth breeding, most not worth breeding) indicates that their values for life and individual rights are not the same as our own.

 

As for the killings based on vying for a breeding position, this happens all the time in nature. Many animals fight to the death over mating.

 

There are human precedents as well. I'll pose two scenarios.

 

Consider a member of a fictitious "Ox tribe" that practices a ritual similar to the ancient Nordic practice of Holmgang. The challenger poses a challenge and the challenged chooses the terms. It's likely the nunh would choose a fight to the death for several reasons. First, a death on the ox hide is not murder but at worst a destruction of property resulting in an exchange of weregild. Second, if all tia are expecting a fight to the death in order to become a nunh, they're not going to issue a challenge lightly or commit offenses that could be interpreted as a challenge. Third, many of the nunh may prefer death rather than a loss of station and ceding breeding rights.

 

Now consider a tribe with a moral code similar to that of Bushido in Japan. In that particular culture, the worst disgrace a nunh could bestow upon a defeated tia might be leaving him alive. In essense you would be saying "you're such a disgrace you're not even worth the effort to kill." This particular sentiment was even echoed in pistol dueling throughout Europe and the United States late into the 1800s. To deliberately misfire your shot was a grave insult and a sign of cowardice.

 

I would argue that the ancient Vikings, feudal Japanese, and colonial Europeans/Americans were "sentiant, cultured, abstract-thought-and-morality-capable" people. Their morality simply differed from our own.

 

My point here is that if someone wanted to play their Seeker tribe as resembling ancient Viking or bushido morality, that would be pretty cool. I wholeheartedly agree that only the most barbaric, isolated sort of tribe would kill defenseless children, but the option should exist for someone willing to play such a dark character, because some people enjoy pushing the envelope to those sorts of extremes. I had a friend in my previous tabletop group who consistently played characters whose sole motivation seemed to be "what's the next terrible thing I can do that I can get away with?" Oftentimes this led to some very tense and very rewarding roleplay.

[Kyatai]

A very fascinating and well-thought out discussion. Great job and thanks Calli!

 

I come from an anthropological/medical collegiate background, and though my initial thought after reading your post (besides the above), was "well then we also need a good cultural/psychological discussion to supplement"...

I find that the subsequent postings have done a great job in discussing those.

 

No, one cannot look at a species (and yes- there is a difference between species and race, though people in fantasy tend to use them interchangeably. Or ignore them to allow for the ability to have 'half' this and thats. Admittedly, I struggle with this because... well... Miqo'te are NOT Hyur who are NOT Roe.. nor Lala... etc. BUT... with the developers not definitely stating 'half'-lings are impossible, I must resign myself to using race over species. Regardless of my 'real life' instincts.

Tl;dr... moving on.) or "race" of humanoid as a purely biological specimen. One simply MUST integrate the environmental & cultural aspects, traditions, religion, morals and mores and so on into the equation. For it is THAT that shapes 'who' and 'what' we are....

At least in my opinion. But this is the simple 'nature vs nurture' argument that still persists today. Even among anthropologists. (esp between evolutionary and cultural anthropologists!) But I digress.

 

Basically- my comments would only reiterate previous posters regarding the various tribal and typical matriarchal vs patriarchal familial structures... so I won't go into my own dissertation of it. Though I admit, I find using strict human structures like this to not -quite- fit the Miqo'te idea of things.

Similar, but not quite the same.

I think the developers basic ideas in creating all the clans/types of 'races' was a rather simplistic "make them opposite." And left it at that.

 

Seekers... sun... male/father focused... strength.

Keepers... moon... female focused... spiritual/mental.

Highlanders... strength

Midlanders... intellect

Dunesfolk.... gil/merchant

Plainsfolk.... agriculture

Wildwood... urban/forest focused

Duskwright... reculsive, cave dwellers

Hellsguard... volcanoes

Seawolf... ocean

 

With such basic parameters, and limited lore to expand on the above, it leaves us, the RPers and lore hounds, culture fanatics, biologists and just... creative folks to expand on them and make our characters our own.

Which, to me, is both cool (I love to have wiggle room to develop interesting characters and engage other interesting characters) and annoying (I need SOME parameters so that I don't risk diverting from the realm of lore logic/possibility enough that all members of a certain RP'd "race" are similar enough to be recognizable and relatable.)

 

Honestly... I find such discussions as Calli has set forth to be enlightening and interesting. Not necessarily as an instruction manual to RPing a 'true' tribal Miqo (because it would not be... if you were to use her discussion as such at the absence of culture, you would be RPing more of a true PRIMAL Miqo'te... and one that would likely not function well in 'modern' society. Might they exist? Sure... as she said, the spectrum of possibility is there to use and abuse as we, the RPers, see fit. The more diversity, the more interesting the RP could be.), but as a basis of maybe understanding how things BEGAN... the roots of the division, the culture, etc.

People will make cultural adaptations to justify biological rules. And vice versa.

And we have not even discussed the psychological adaptations that might be made to justify biological drives or cultural decisions...

 

Lastly, discussions like this aren't a result of 'worry' or anything else- but merely a desire to dive deep into what could drive a character, a race, a clan, a species or whatever... in order to create a more in-depth, complex and intellectually stimulating character and IC interaction. It helps a character evolve from 2-D to 3-D. From flat and boring to dynamic and interesting.

 

My 2 gil.

Sorry for the rambling...  haha

[Gone4everbye]

I feel as though I learned a fair bit having read this thread and most of its posts.  My character however wouldn't be abiding by any of this due to how and who he was raised by.  I'm that small percentage that maaay be looked down upon for having a male Miqo'te who knows nothing about the clans, his culture, etc.  ^^;

I think that actually puts you in the majority. I've seen way more city-dwelling Miqo'te males than traditional tribal males, both among Seekers and Keepers.

 

I'm of the opinion that a lot of this is happening in some sort of off-screen or behind the curtain manner.  For example, if you go outside Ul'dah, there's a single farm, whereas outside Limsa, there's quite a few farms and orchards.  Is one farm supporting the entire populace of Ul'dah?  Probably not.  The vast majority of populations for all these races are never seen, because a truly realistic world would be too expansive to be captured in the game.  The major cities, however, need that sort of description.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about NPCs nor the environment. I'm talking about PCs. I think a vast majority of roleplayers who play male Miqo'te do not roleplay tribal or traditional characters. Ryu' said that he feels hes in the "small percentage" of characters who don't understand or identify with traditional Miqo'te cultures. I'm arguing that characters like that are not a "small percentage," but instead a vast majority. Those who play traditional male Miqo'te characters, I feel, are in the minority. Especially Seeker males.

[Myxie Tryxle]

I feel as though I learned a fair bit having read this thread and most of its posts.  My character however wouldn't be abiding by any of this due to how and who he was raised by.  I'm that small percentage that maaay be looked down upon for having a male Miqo'te who knows nothing about the clans, his culture, etc.  ^^;

I think that actually puts you in the majority. I've seen way more city-dwelling Miqo'te males than traditional tribal males, both among Seekers and Keepers.

 

I'm of the opinion that a lot of this is happening in some sort of off-screen or behind the curtain manner.  For example, if you go outside Ul'dah, there's a single farm, whereas outside Limsa, there's quite a few farms and orchards.  Is one farm supporting the entire populace of Ul'dah?  Probably not.  The vast majority of populations for all these races are never seen, because a truly realistic world would be too expansive to be captured in the game.  The major cities, however, need that sort of description.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about NPCs nor the environment. I'm talking about PCs. I think a vast majority of roleplayers who play male Miqo'te do not roleplay tribal or traditional characters. Ryu' said that he feels hes in the "small percentage" of characters who don't understand or identify with traditional Miqo'te cultures. I'm arguing that characters like that are not a "small percentage," but instead a vast majority. Those who play traditional male Miqo'te characters, I feel, are in the minority. Especially Seeker males.

 

Sorry, it makes better sense now that I know you meant players. It's a shame they waited until 2.0 to add in male Miqo'te and female Roegadyn. We could have avoided the need for discussions like this. Hopefully we'll see a lot of Miqo'te lore fairly quickly.

[growly beast]

Damn, girl.

 

I think this post is pretty amazing - you managed to write down all of my thoughts on the subject of miqo'te habits- in a better way than I could have. I really appreciate that you took the time to flesh this out! Having this info written down means I can expand his culture and such a little bit more, which I am excited to do.

 

My character pretty much subscribed to all of this already, and I used these ideas to flesh out his backstory, inferring from what little clues we have from official sources.

 

I'm a little disappointed with some of the reactions, though, and the fact that some players seem to be less willing to bend their human-centered thinking and get a little more creative with the miqo'te; they have have so much potential to be really interesting, much more beyond generic catgirls and boys. But I love coming up with an expanding on fantastical races myself, and exploring ideas that push conventional ideas of society, culture, sexuality and gender roles.

 

To me, there's got to be something more to them than just humans with ears and tails tacked on. If that were the case, I'd see little point in it.

---

I have one simple question, why are you putting logic into a video game? That's all I gotta say. It's a game, have fun. We don't need to put logic into everything. It's a fantasy game, why is everyone worrying about this?

 

If you don't like what's going on in the lore then change it and make up your own rules or play a different race.

 

Lots of people have fun trying to make sense of what they're given. Just because you don't have fun in X way doesn't mean other's won't. I doubt this post was written out of anger or disappointment - it was probably because it's fun stuff to think about for the OP. As it is for me, and I'm sure others.

 

Also, they did nothing to break the lore. They expanded on what's given to us at this point, and making informed speculations and expanding on that.

---

I wonder where love fits into all of this, and how its view.  It seems like in Miqo'te culture, love takes a way side.  As a Seeker, you mate with Nunh's, whether you love them or not.

 

"Love" as we humans see it doesn't necessarily have to be present in their society at all, especially if other parts of their culture are completely different from ours. There isn't much "love" and romance among lion prides or solitary cats like leopards - perhaps it's the same here. Maybe it's just not a thing they are programmed to do because they don't need to.

[Nako-Chan]

Don't have a long post to go on about, all I really have to say is amazing Opening Post, regardless of what some voices have said. Yes, miqo'te are rational animals, just like humans and culture blah blah, but this is no less interesting to think about. Or at the very least, consider.

 

+1 OP

 

This is something I'll be meditating for hours on when considering a fleshed out back-story.

[Swift]

Sheesh, it seems that the longer this topic goes on, the more difficult it's becoming to make up my mind as to what to do with my character's particular tribe.

 

There's quite a few questions that I'm trying to answer as I go along:

 

1. How, exactly, are challenges for the title of Nunh handled?

 

2. How much influence to women have over who becomes a challenger?

 

3. Are the challenges a straight-up fight? Or are they most like contests, such as "who can hunt the most game in a single week?"

 

4. Is the loser killed? If not, is there a punishment associated with failure? (Shunning? Exile? Castration? Etc.?)

 

5. If there is a particularly fatal or gruesome punishment, how does this affect the morale of the rest of the tribe? If there isn't, what factor prevents the challenges from occurring very commonly?

 

6. How do tribal Miqo'te, in general, view other races and cultures? Do they prefer to be traditional or open to outside influences/technology?

 

7. How are the relationships within the tribe defined? Do they consider the entire tribe to be their "family?" Is it extended only to those who were sired under the same Nunh? Is it only their immediate family?

 

8. Does romance play a role anywhere? If so, how common is it? How many partners are culturally acceptable? Does romance include a sexual element with the relationship? Is this okay with the Nunhs, or does it have to be in secret?

 

I'll probably bump into many other questions as I go, as well. It's no wonder why most people would opt to just be a "city-cat"--these are hard to answer! If the culture leans more towards the more primal and "barbaric" side of things, it puts a strain on the definition of "community" among the tribe (i.e. if someone eats all of your children, even if this is the accepted norm, your morale and sense of community would surely plummet). But at the same time, if their culture is too gentle (Tias and Nunhs fight over a game of checkers), it might seem too sun-shiny, happy, and generic. I'm trying to strike an "exotic middle-ground" among them all, to give them a unique, cultural silhouette while ensuring that it doesn't go too overboard simply for the sake of that. Different--but not to the point that the other races would see them as vile (which doesn't seem to be the case as far as NPCs are concerned).