Lore help

[Evie]

Hi! I'm new to  Final Fantasy 14, but some friends of mine are going to be playing the game and so I figured I'd give it a try too. I'm currently working on my character's backstory and I've run across a few questions so far. Keep in mine I come from SWTOR which has tons and tons of lore which is easily available. I've tried to do searches to answer my questions, and may just be looking in the wrong place, but I'm very OCD about having backstories fit correctly with the lore of the game. So on that note, the first two of probably dozens of questions that I will probably have.

 

1) Before the Garleans attacked Eorzea, where the lands at relative peace that would allow free trade and merchant travel etc across the borders? It may not have been like large amounts of such activity, but from what I gathered the original acts where kind of unexpected.

 

2) Was there an academy for higher studying of Magics? Think other games like Dragon Age with the Mages academy, or Elder Scrolls with a similar. Or like a graduate school where all the best mages go to study in order to research and share advanced techniques etc etc.

 

Any help is very much appreciated, as nothing I've found has given any indications of either of these questions and as a history nut and I'm beginning to go a bit crazy that I can't find this stuff.

 

:cry:

 

Thanks all,

Evie

[Mtoto Wamoto]

1) Before the Garleans attacked the first time, and even the second time, there seemed to be a semblance of open trade between the nations. Of course, Ala Mhigo was constantly trying to push west-ward towards Gridania to expand their lands even before the Garleans struck which caused the other city states to fight back against Ala Mhigo...so they may have been exempt from trade, but I doubt it. In regards to the Garleans in specific, Ul'dah is known to have traded ceruleum with the empire and Limsa has harbored ships hailing from Garlean territory, confiscating weapons and such to reverse engineer them for their own purposes. The long and short of it is, yes there was at least some minor trading going on between all the nations prior the Garleans attacking.

2) There hasn't been an established academy revealed yet, but it seems the guilds have much higher levels of learning and teaching. The Thaumaturges guild actually has hundreds if not thousands of scriptures that were once required for new thaumaturges to read during their training. This practice was eventually abolished and now thaumaturges have a specific tome they study from. The arcanist guild, Mealvaan's Gate, serves as Limsa's customs house but it also seems to be place of learning and education, if not a building filled with archived information, magic likely being part of that. 

 

Anyways, hope that helped. Someone may have more details than I can provide however.

[Ildur]

As of current lore and locations, it is implied that all forms of higher education in magic are handled by the arcanist, thaumaturge and conjurer guilds. There is no such a thing as an academy, though we dont know about Ishgard and the other city state that was not in the last Beta.

 

Garleands probably have academies, though, but they will be probably be focused on magitek and engineering, as most garleans are incapable of magic.

[doctorgalactic]

Don't know how on topic this may or may not be, but what do we know about Sharlayan?  From the wiki:

Sharlayan is an inaccessible city-state in Final Fantasy XIV. It is on the north western region of Aldenard calledDravania. The Circle of Knowing hails from there, and Louisoix was the last to come south to offer assistance. Their patron deity is Thaliak the Scholar.

 

The speculation here being that the Circle of Knowing are all well capable with magic (watch the End of an Era video...), and their patron deity hints at the further pursuit of said knowledge.  It seems like there may be more information there in regards to magic academia, but we don't have much more information than that.

[Mtoto Wamoto]

Don't know how on topic this may or may not be, but what do we know about Sharlayan?  From the wiki:

Sharlayan is an inaccessible city-state in Final Fantasy XIV. It is on the north western region of Aldenard calledDravania. The Circle of Knowing hails from there, and Louisoix was the last to come south to offer assistance. Their patron deity is Thaliak the Scholar.

 

The speculation here being that the Circle of Knowing are all well capable with magic (watch the End of an Era video...), and their patron deity hints at the further pursuit of said knowledge.  It seems like there may be more information there in regards to magic academia, but we don't have much more information than that.

 

It's stated in ARR that the citizens of Sharlayan fled Eorzea and returned to their homeland several years before the events of 1.0 happened, likely around or before the time of the Garlean invasion and the Primals being summoned. However, Sharlayan does seem to be the biggest candidate when it comes to having an academy of some sort. their patron deity is Thaliak, the Scholar.

[Vash]

My Evie! Yay you made it to the site welcome I know you will love it here! :moogle:

[Evie]

Don't know how on topic this may or may not be, but what do we know about Sharlayan?  From the wiki:

Sharlayan is an inaccessible city-state in Final Fantasy XIV. It is on the north western region of Aldenard calledDravania. The Circle of Knowing hails from there, and Louisoix was the last to come south to offer assistance. Their patron deity is Thaliak the Scholar.

 

The speculation here being that the Circle of Knowing are all well capable with magic (watch the End of an Era video...), and their patron deity hints at the further pursuit of said knowledge.  It seems like there may be more information there in regards to magic academia, but we don't have much more information than that.

 

I had actually considered this as I was doing my research, but what I found about the Circle of Knowledge implies that they focused on the crystals (granted not familiar much with what the crystals are or do past teleportation). So it didn't seem much like the Circle of Knowledge would be about Magic research in other areas, but a strictly focused academic group. But those are just my thoughts.

[Ildur]

I could be mistaken, but from what I recall from the beta cutscenes, the only Sharlayans in Eorzea are a bunch of four or five NPCs that help you in the storyline that call theirselves "archons". Or so I recall.

[Havoc Snow]

Don't know how on topic this may or may not be, but what do we know about Sharlayan?  From the wiki:

Sharlayan is an inaccessible city-state in Final Fantasy XIV. It is on the north western region of Aldenard calledDravania. The Circle of Knowing hails from there, and Louisoix was the last to come south to offer assistance. Their patron deity is Thaliak the Scholar.

 

The speculation here being that the Circle of Knowing are all well capable with magic (watch the End of an Era video...), and their patron deity hints at the further pursuit of said knowledge.  It seems like there may be more information there in regards to magic academia, but we don't have much more information than that.

The problem with this is that Yda and Thancred are classified as classes that aren't really magic users. Yda is a Pugilist/Monk, and Thancred is supposed to be a Bard despite his use of throwing knives. The End of an Era video doesn't really display any magic knowledge, it just shows their prayers being answered.

[FreelanceWizard]

Additionally, neither Yda nor Thancred demonstrate facility with magic in the ARR main scenario quest, at least up to where it ended in Phase 3 for a Gridania-homed character.

[Havoc Snow]

In general the Circle of Knowing members also don't fit into the general dynamic of their represented class. For example we see at one point that Y'shtola can use some kind of psychic projection to stop gunfire from Gaius, Thancred is incredibly acrobatic and wields shurikens which might actually suggest even though he is supposed to be a Bard he may actually be a Ninja or Thief, and Papalymo also apparently has some kind of ability to suck up things and compact them like a Gravity spell. Urianger is never clearly given a class/job association, but he wields a staff that was originally planned for the Arcanist when they used DoTs and Traps.

[Sounsyy]

1) Before the Garleans attacked Eorzea, where the lands at relative peace that would allow free trade and merchant travel etc across the borders? It may not have been like large amounts of such activity, but from what I gathered the original acts where kind of unexpected.

 

2) Was there an academy for higher studying of Magics? Think other games like Dragon Age with the Mages academy, or Elder Scrolls with a similar. Or like a graduate school where all the best mages go to study in order to research and share advanced techniques etc etc.

 

1. The city states tend to ignore one another until they have need of the other it seems. We know that 100 years ago Ala Mhigo waged war against Gridania. It ended in a loss for Ala Mhigo. The city later ripped itself apart in a civil war against its own people just a couple years before Garlemald invaded. Ishgard is at war with the dragons in Dravania. Sharlayan was abandoned when the Garleans invaded Ala Mhigo. Most likely because Sharlayan has no military force that could repel the Garleans should they cross over the mountains into their territory. Ul'dah wiped out it's own sister nation Sil'dih. Limsa deals with it's own pirate problems and are also at arms against the Sahagin. So each nation kind of has it's own problems so they don't interfere with one another. 

 

As for trade routes. There are trade routes all across Eorzea and nations who traded mainly with specific other ones, but all nations traded with one another to at least some extent. 

 

Gridania originally did not trade with anyone until the Autumn War against Ala Mhigo. This was mainly due to the fact they didn't trust or want Outsiders in their forest. The city-states came to their aid and now Gridania trades with the other nations. From Ishgard they receive the finest raised Male Chocobos in exchange for aiding in the capture of Ishgardian fugitives that try to seek refuge in the Twelveswood. Gridania also trades many plants and seeds and fertilizer to Ul'dah. 

 

Ishgard used to trade mainly with Ul'dah and Gridania until the city went under lockdown. To Ul'dah they used to give heretics and captured monsters to use on the Bloodsands. Entertainment. And to Gridania, again, they gave some of their finest chocobos as well as offered their assistance where they could with the Ixali threat. 

 

Ul'dah seems to be the central trade hub. All things seem to come through Ul'dah at some point. Most of their exports include rare ores and gems, metals and medicines. But they also deal in Ceruleum trade with the Empire, using Limsan trading vessels as middle men. Their only real interest is gil and favors. As long as their exploiting someone they are happy. 

 

Limsa Lominsa holds and protects most of the offshore trade routes. Their business usually includes finished metal goods, like armor, weaponry, vessels, and construction materials. As well as Fish, vegetables, and the occasional black market items. 

 

 

2. Proficiency at magic is something that is not always taught, but something acquired through many years of practice and study. Some seem to be more attuned to certain magicks than others. Not everything can be taught. This especially is true of those possessing the knowledge to wield arcane magic. This is not typically taught at any guild as most of these arcane arts (aka Jobs in XIV) are either forgotten or forbidden. For instance, the Sixth Umbral Era came about because of the abuse of the original arcane magicks.

 

As for the Circle of Knowing, these Archons are said to be scholars of the Twelve and of the history of Eorzea. They do not necessarily possess great magical abilities. As was said Yda and Thancred have almost no magical abilities but excel in melee combat. Needless to say they are all highly intelligent, but not always the most socially adept. (Lookin at you Yda.) 

 

Hope that helps! If you have any more lore questions, just lemme know! I'll do my best to find some answers for you. =]

[Havoc Snow]

Ul'dah wiped out it's own sister nation Sil'dih.

I don't remember it ever being said that Ul'dah wiped out Sil'dih. I thought it was actually implied that something happened inside of Sil'dih and they wiped themselves out, but it was never made clear what it was. In fact it seemed almost like they were trying to suggest in some ways that Sil'dih wasn't wiped out or gone, but merely... elsewhere. I remember reading somewhere that they were run by a type of Magocracy, which might imply they could come back at some point.

[Sounsyy]

In the Miner's Quests it is said that Sil'dih lost a great and terrible war and was covered by the sands of Thanalan. Later we get a more detailed history from the Monk quest-line. Here's a quote from Erik detailing the fall of Sil'dih from one of the Monk quests:

 

Sil'dih was not alone in its want for water. Ul'dah, too, felt the effects of the droughts. The sultan at the time, Sasagan Ul Sisigan─ Ah! But perhaps you recognize the Ul name? The current sultana, Nanamo Ul Namo, represents the second Ul dynasty. She is Sasagan's distant descendant. Now...where was I? Ah, yes! Right, so, Sasagan ordered an attack on Sil'dih to claim the water resources discovered as a result of Lalawefu's flood control acts.

 

But the royalty and nobility of Sil'dih would not remain idle. They mobilized their nation in the face of this crisis, and the people fought with great tenacity against the Ul'dahn threat. The full strength of both nations met in battle, and the end result was an arduous protracted conflict. 

 

Though arguably more desirable than surrender, the ruling Sil'dihn elite took little pleasure in having succeeded in uniting the theretofore querulous citizenry to fight. For despite all they accomplished, every day spent waging war dragged the nation's financial affairs─which you will recall had only just been brought under control─back into the mire.

 

To bring an end to the long military deadlock, Sil'dih devised and set about implementing a perverse yet ambitious strategy. It sought to zombify the deceased among its army, that they might fight again. At first, it appeared to have worked. Yet at the height of hostilities, the Sil'dihns lost control over their necrotic creations. The undead turned on their masters, and before long the zombification had spread to a majority of the population.

 

Ever knowing an opportunity when they saw one, the Ul'dahns grasped this turn of events to justify their war─now proclaiming it a crusade to send these zombies to Thal. After seeing to the extermination of all zombies outside the city, they then sealed the gates of Sil'dih, entrapping both the living and dead within.

 

And that, in brief, is a history of the fall of Sil'dih. I only pray that your feeble mind is able to retain it.

[Havoc Snow]

In the Miner's Quests it is said that Sil'dih lost a great and terrible war and was covered by the sands of Thanalan. Later we get a more detailed history from the Monk quest-line. Here's a quote from Erik detailing the fall of Sil'dih from one of the Monk quests:

 

Sil'dih was not alone in its want for water. Ul'dah, too, felt the effects of the droughts. The sultan at the time, Sasagan Ul Sisigan─ Ah! But perhaps you recognize the Ul name? The current sultana, Nanamo Ul Namo, represents the second Ul dynasty. She is Sasagan's distant descendant. Now...where was I? Ah, yes! Right, so, Sasagan ordered an attack on Sil'dih to claim the water resources discovered as a result of Lalawefu's flood control acts.

 

But the royalty and nobility of Sil'dih would not remain idle. They mobilized their nation in the face of this crisis, and the people fought with great tenacity against the Ul'dahn threat. The full strength of both nations met in battle, and the end result was an arduous protracted conflict. 

 

Though arguably more desirable than surrender, the ruling Sil'dihn elite took little pleasure in having succeeded in uniting the theretofore querulous citizenry to fight. For despite all they accomplished, every day spent waging war dragged the nation's financial affairs─which you will recall had only just been brought under control─back into the mire.

 

To bring an end to the long military deadlock, Sil'dih devised and set about implementing a perverse yet ambitious strategy. It sought to zombify the deceased among its army, that they might fight again. At first, it appeared to have worked. Yet at the height of hostilities, the Sil'dihns lost control over their necrotic creations. The undead turned on their masters, and before long the zombification had spread to a majority of the population.

 

Ever knowing an opportunity when they saw one, the Ul'dahns grasped this turn of events to justify their war─now proclaiming it a crusade to send these zombies to Thal. After seeing to the extermination of all zombies outside the city, they then sealed the gates of Sil'dih, entrapping both the living and dead within.

 

And that, in brief, is a history of the fall of Sil'dih. I only pray that your feeble mind is able to retain it.

 

I actually totally forgot about the zombie thing, though that doesn't necessarily mean we'll never see anything from Sil'dih again, perhaps we'll encounter it later on as some kind of Necropolis that wants revenge on Ul'dah for what they did, maybe the home of this games version of the Lich boss.

[Sounsyy]

I actually totally forgot about the zombie thing, though that doesn't necessarily mean we'll never see anything from Sil'dih again, perhaps we'll encounter it later on as some kind of Necropolis that wants revenge on Ul'dah for what they did, maybe the home of this games version of the Lich boss.

 

Oh I didn't mean to imply we'd never hear from Sil'dih again. Just confirming that Ul'dah's sister nation Sil'dih was infact wiped out in a war with Ul'dah. But we do see a lot of Sil'dih artifacts and lost architecture in ARR. There's several ancient Sil'dihn ruins in Western and Southern Thanalan. So very likely that we will see more lore revolving around Sil'dih. Also quite possible we'll have a Sil'dihn dungeon involving some undead. That could be a lot of fun. 

 

We already have a dungeon in a Gelmorran Ruin and The Wanderer's Palace is a part of Nym, so that leaves Sil'dih as the only dungeon-less lost civilization. For now.

[Myxie Tryxle]

2) Was there an academy for higher studying of Magics? Think other games like Dragon Age with the Mages academy, or Elder Scrolls with a similar. Or like a graduate school where all the best mages go to study in order to research and share advanced techniques etc etc.

 

Hi Evie,

 

As far as the lore of the types of magic goes, the manner in which magic is practiced depends on the type of magic. They describe it a little when you get into the guild quests that each type of magic is practiced very differently. Thaumaturges (and black mages) harness the energy within themselves to create their magic and project it into the world. Conjurers (and white mages) harness the latent magical energies that flow throughout the environment and shape it to their purpose. No clue on Arcanists, as we can't play those yet, but their books suggest their power comes from knowledge of rune words of power/creation or something like that.

 

I would equate this to the manner in which real world students study science. To say you're a scientist is a blanket term, equivalent to describing yourself as simply "a mage." Most people pick one discipline and study it almost exclusively, becoming biologists, chemists, physicists, etc. For the typical (NPC) student in Eorzea, it would likely take a lifetime of study to master just one of these schools of magic, equivalent to getting a PhD in one of those scientific fields.

 

If that were the case, trying to put all three types of magic in the same college may be considered unnecessary or even distracting. For the typical student, trying to master all three schools of magic at once could be equivalent to trying to get a PhD in biology, chemistry, and astrophysics at the same time. For exceptionally intelligent individuals (and PCs are exceptional individuals), it could be possible, but for the average student it pretty much guarantees they'll fail at all three when they could succeed if they were trying for just one.

 

Also, real world colleges tend to specialize to be stronger in one field than another. While a college may offer graduate degrees in biology and chemistry, their bio program could be average compared to other schools while their chemistry department is one of the top 5 in the country. It's likely each of the magic guilds would offer rudimentary instruction into a broad base of magical theory, but that would be introductory and lead into their specialized field. Better to be the top school in one field than average in several.

 

Not saying it isn't possible. It just may not have been practical up to this point to try and bring study of all three types of magic together because the average (NPC) mage couldn't handle it. The arrival of a wave of super-intelligent or talented PCs could certainly change that.

 

All of this of course being speculation to rationalize the real reason (game design) where the developers had three schools of magic to divide among three starting cities.

[Evie]

I was thinking more of like a place for those exceptional students to met and trade ideas and thoughts. Kind of like Aristotle's or Socrate's discussions where ideas are shared to the betterment of all branches.

 

Also there are branches of science that work together, example Biochemistry. So could there be branches of magic that build on one another. With this it's more curiosity about how the system works then trying to make something crazy for my character idea (just going to keep that one magic type or another.)

[FreelanceWizard]

I was thinking more of like a place for those exceptional students to met and trade ideas and thoughts. Kind of like Aristotle's or Socrate's discussions where ideas are shared to the betterment of all branches.

 

Also there are branches of science that work together, example Biochemistry. So could there be branches of magic that build on one another. With this it's more curiosity about how the system works then trying to make something crazy for my character idea (just going to keep that one magic type or another.)

 

In lore, I'm not personally aware of such a place. The Adventurers' Guilds sort of serve that purpose, but they're not mage-specific.

 

We do know that the Disciplines of Magic are sufficiently different from each other in method (Thaumaturgy evokes internal Aether, Conjury invokes external Aether from the elements, Arcana uses internal Aether patterned by runes and external Aether drawn from gemstones) and point of view (Thaumaturgy focuses on power, Conjury on unity with and respect for life, and we don't know anything about Arcana yet) that they don't really build on each other; while they can share some spells at somewhat reduced power, greater knowledge in one doesn't translate to superior ability in another mechanically. The Disciplines of Magic share the same power source, more or less, insofar as they rely on shaping Aether into spells, but how they get there is very different.

 

That said, I expect that a lot of mage players will have their characters poke around at the metaphysics and try to come up with "unified theories of magic," so to speak, that can explain the lore and the game mechanics. My character has one, though of course I don't assert that she's correct OOC.

[Myxie Tryxle]

Also there are branches of science that work together, example Biochemistry. So could there be branches of magic that build on one another. With this it's more curiosity about how the system works then trying to make something crazy for my character idea (just going to keep that one magic type or another.)

 

Biochemistry is actually a lot more biology than chemistry, but my view may be biased seeing as how I'm a biologist. I see what you're getting at though.

 

That's where the cross-class skill slots come in. Not sure how familiar you are with the mechanics of the game, but every five levels you unlock a cross class skill slot. Depending on what class you're playing, you have many choices for what skills to fill them with, but you have to level other classes to unlock the skills themselves (for example, leveling conjury to level 4 unlocks cure, which almost every other class can use as a cross class skill). Just looking at thaumaturge, you have 24 different cross class skills you can unlock, with a maximum of 10 cross class slots to put them in, allowing for a lot of versatility. This is before we even know what skills arcanist brings to the table.

 

Here's a link to a website with that information for all the class.

 

Just looking at the list for thaumaturge, seven of their cross class skills are learned from conjury, so you can easily incorporate other magics, but the majority of your power comes from your primary class (17 class skills and 11 traits that boost important attributes or augment specific class skills).

 

Also of note, when you activate a job, it affects these cross class slots. Your choices become more limited, but the job skills automatically fill in some of the cross class slots (if I understand the mechanic correctly - haven't actually done this in game yet).

[Evie]

Callipygian

Biochemistry is actually a lot more biology than chemistry, but my view may be biased seeing as how I'm a biologist.  I see what you're getting at though.

 

 

I got my degree in chemistry and they let me count Biochem as an upper level Chemistry class at my college, since it was very organic chemistry related. All the memorizing!