ACN VS CNJ as healer

[LeCard]

so, I noticed something doing a few runs with my ACN on Hades tonight. ACN makes a bamf healer! You get Carbuncle to do your damage/ defend you, then you have access to all the cool healing spells of CNJ(with the exception of medica), plus you get aether flow to regen MP.

 

Why would anyone party with a CNJ as healer after learning this? Also, after level 22 ACN gets a raise spell that can be used while fighting, but CNJs raise means you have to wait for everything to stop killing your party before you can bring anyone back.

 

seriously? can anyone tell me why CNJ should be played for anything more than acess to the level 12 skills and jobs?

Edit: Should note, I beat Halatali with a PUG and GLD(both lvl 23) and myself useing the above ACN method (lvl 21). We lost our CNJ about half way through, turns out we didn't need them.

[Orlog]

At lower levels, there's no reason to choose Conjurer over Arcanist. But, as you go through the levels, Arcanist's one heal isn't enough to deal with all the damage. Conjurer has an AOE and... Cure 2, I think? So, basically down the line Conjurer gets more tools to ensure you're alive. Then you get into classes, which is just what flavor of healing you like to play as far as WHM and SCH.

 

But, yeah. Arcanist is a great lower level healer. But, to be fair, the lower level areas are extremely tame.

[LeCard]

At lower levels, there's no reason to choose Conjurer over Arcanist. But, as you go through the levels, Arcanist's one heal isn't enough to deal with all the damage. Conjurer has an AOE and... Cure 2, I think? So, basically down the line Conjurer gets more tools to ensure you're alive. Then you get into classes, which is just what flavor of healing you like to play as far as WHM and SCH.

 

But, yeah. Arcanist is a great lower level healer. But, to be fair, the lower level areas are extremely tame.

but they don't get cure 2 until level 30, at which point they can be WHM...

[Quuyn]

I'm rolling as a 34 WHM right now. (LOOK I got distracted with crafting for the past week) Annd yeah, I'm by no means an expert. But essentially what Bea said! Arcanist has generally 'one' heal. While Conjurer gets Medica, which is an AoE (Though it has a pretty short range) on top of that they also get Cure II which is a bigger heal than Cure one. 

 

However, what makes it so awesome is the level 32 passive! Which is called "Free Cure" essentially, everytime you use Cure I, you have a chance to proc "Free Cure" which makes your next Cure II cost no mana. On top of having that awesome sauce passive. You also have the ability to cure ailments such as poison and stuff using the move Esuna. And they also get Protect (Even though you could just borrow it anyways) annnd Stoneskin at level 34. Stoneskin essentially absorbs 10% of damage based on 10% of the Tank's health. Which is very snazzy

 

CNJs raise means you have to wait for everything to stop killing your party before you can bring anyone back.

 

Actually, CNJ gets a passive at 28 called Enhanced Raise, that lets them use Raise in Combat as well.

 

I'd say it's up to personal preference, after all it's your game! But, that's what I see the benefits of being a CNJ Healer!

[LeCard]

what I'm seen is all the skills that make CNJ good are stuff you get after you can take on WHM(or 2 level before in the case of raise). which means, after you get jobs sure, CNJ(aka WHM) is the ideal healer. but for the first 28-30 levels ARC wins hands down. they essentially add a fifth to the party(carbuncle) who can tank with ease. they can add Dot damage, and they can keep the party all healed up and never run out of MP thanks to Aether flow. alright, so you lose AoE healing, but I havenever found a fight (up through level 22) that couldn't be solved easily with single target healing.

 

Edit: Also, at level (35?) when ACN can become SCH they will get healing spells (both single target and AoE) that not only heal but negate damage equal to the amount healed.(so kind of double heal, sort of)

[Quuyn]

Very true! If you're speaking strictly below level 30, then yeah. I'd agree, but even then.. I've never ran into a single mana issue as a CNJ in lower levels. I often find myself falling asleep even still at level 34. The only fight that I even had to pay the slightest attention to was the final boss of Brayflox so far. 

 

So again, I'd say it's just go with whatever you want to go with. By the looks I'd agree that Arcanist is better simply due to their carbuncle as an added group member. But healing is so snooze-fest easy that I doubt it truly matters if you go as a CNJ or Arcanist... Or maybe even a Thaumaturge. (...They have a heal right?)

[LeCard]

 

 But healing is so snooze-fest easy that I doubt it truly matters

haha, that is sadly very true. Though as ACN I find myself leading the charge alot, then fall back and heal once the tank finally gets hate back from carbuncle(if that ever happens).

 Carbuncle is just made of awesomeness. there said it, everyone can move back to healing talks.

 

I've actually let the carbuncle do its thing on one enemy while the rest of the party targets another, and I target yet a third. half the time carbuncle and I get our targets down to half health before the party can beat their target.(unless I have to stop and heal)

 

Edit: something else I would like to see done if it hasn't been already. A party made of nothing but ACN. Think about it, you have an 8 man party in a 4 man only dungeon! haha four tanks, four healers, and everyone can damage decently

[FreelanceWizard]

I was main healing for some of the lower level dungeons last night as an ACN. It's entirely doable, though the lack of Medica does complicate matters when things go sour; we wiped once when we had a new member (CNJ) join mid-instance and she ran through a group of mobs. I made the split-second decision to save her and, sadly, the tank went down just when I got the second Physick off. Had I had Medica, I could have easily saved the group.

 

What ACNs really offer, I think, is flexibility. In Sastasha, when the scurvy dogs come in during the second boss fight, I was able to swap Emerald for Topaz and off-tank them while still healing the tank and throwing in DoTs from time to time. Once they were dead, I was able to top off the tank and switch back to Emerald to add DPS. Is an ACN as good of a healer as a CNJ? No, but what you lose in raw power, you gain in flexibility. Do I enjoy playing an ACN healer more than a CNJ healer? It depends on the circumstances. It's certainly tougher, since you have more variables to consider and fewer tools to save the day.

 

And, of course, once you hit level 30, you can go SCH and be a "true" healer.

[LeCard]

I tend to stick with topaz at all times. Sure emerald might get in a little more damage, but topaz can hold off(even kill most of the time) an enemy. And i haven't really had any issue with keeping people all healed up. (though it sounds like your issue arose out of poor judgement on the part of the CNJ and where they were going). If the party opts to stick together and take the mobs one group at a time, medica isn't needed at all. The only time I ever had trouble keeping a party alive is when I was playing one man down through Halatali, and even still we beat the boss after we figured out what we need to time when.(though it was still a supper close call.)

 

also, with the exception of medica, you really get all the needed skills (protect and raise namely) with the exception of esuna (though I have yet to find a need for it). Its just a matter of smart cross skill acquisition to make ACN a great healer until they can grab SCH

[Kismet]

It's too bad that the bulk of the ACN players running around right now are too busy pissing tanks off in dungeons by whipping out their Topaz Carbuncle at extremely inopportune times and/or annoying CNJs by trying to do the job they actually queued for... Topaz Carbuncles is great and all, but unless the tank is horrible or crap has hit the fan for whatever reason? In a dungeon setting, just put it away. We also don't need an ACN spamming Physick all over the place when the party has a capable CNJ. (This is not aimed at anyone in particular, btw. I'm just posting this as general advice for other ACNs.)

 

It's awesome that ACNs can off-tank and heal, but if they could stop surprising everyone in dungeons by trying to do everyone else's jobs for them without any sort of warning, that would be nice.

 

With all that being said, ACNs make fine healers at lower levels. I don't prefer ACN over a CNJ as a healer or vice versa, I'm more concerned with player skill over anything else. But for lvl 50 content, WHM and SCH are the best equipped.

[LeCard]

It's too bad that the bulk of the ACN players running around right now are too busy pissing tanks off in dungeons by whipping out their Topaz Carbuncle at extremely inopportune times and/or annoying CNJs by trying to do the job they actually queued for... Topaz Carbuncles is great and all, but unless the tank is horrible or crap has hit the fan for whatever reason? In a dungeon setting, just put it away. (This is not aimed at anyone in particular, btw. I'm just posting this as general advice for other ACNs.)

 

It's awesome that ACNs can off-tank and heal, but if they could stop surprising everyone in dungeons by trying to do everyone else's jobs for them without any sort of warning, that would be nice.

while I can see what your saying, I can't count the number of times I have had to save the CNJ with my Topaz because the tank couldn't keep the mobs under control. The rounds I do have a CNJ I spend alot of my time playing defend the healer. I sick Carbuncle on one mob and distract another while the tank and other DPS are tackling a single mob (also, neither myself or Carbuncle ever get in the danger zone for HP because I pay attention to both our HP bars)(maybe I just get stuck with crap tanks alot, but that has been my experience with having a CNJ in the party)

[Kismet]

while I can see what your saying, I can't count the number of times I have had to save the CNJ with my Topaz because the tank couldn't keep the mobs under control.

 

If the tank and/or healer has dropped the ball for some reason (or if they're just plain bad), that's completely fine. In that case, if possible, then feel free to do what you need to. I'm only talking about the ACNs who start Topazing or Physicking up a storm when the tank/healer is actually doing just great.

[Quuyn]

(maybe I just get stuck with crap tanks alot, but that has been my experience with having a CNJ in the party)

 

To throw in my two gil, it's usually the Conjurer's fault. I made this mistake for the first few dungeons as well. The thing is, Cure costs very little mana and generates a -high- amount of hate. So people tend to get bored and spam it as insurence, or start casting it -as- the tank is running in. 

 

Essentially, I've managed to avoid the 'let's kill the healer' motto from mobs now because I use my heals much more sparingly, waiting until he's actually low enough for me to do something about it. But speaking from a healer's perspective, I agree with Kismet on the fact that I prefer it if people stick to their roles. I do the healing, tank does the tanking, everyone else kills things. No Topaz carbuncles in sight! But of course if they choose to break the meta, that just makes my job harder, which keeps me awake. SO that's a plus!

[LeCard]

(maybe I just get stuck with crap tanks alot, but that has been my experience with having a CNJ in the party)

 

To throw in my two gil, it's usually the Conjurer's fault. I made this mistake for the first few dungeons as well. The thing is, Cure costs very little mana and generates a -high- amount of hate. So people tend to get bored and spam it as insurence, or start casting it -as- the tank is running in. 

 

 But of course if they choose to break the meta, that just makes my job harder, which keeps me awake. SO that's a plus!

hmm, good to know. Might consider watching future CNJs and seeing if I need to tell them to hold off.

 

also, HAHA! well glad there is something that mixes things up for you.

 

Also, and feel free to tell me your feelings on this. I tend to select a different target from the tank and sort of make a sub party of myself and topaz to kill one target while the other three focus on the other enemy(or other two if there are three.) sometime I will let carbuncle to its business with the enemy and throw some spells at the one that has the least number of people attacking it. unless the tank is attack one and the DPS is hitting the other, then I target the tanks target.

[Clover]

Actually, CNJ gets a passive at 28 called Enhanced Raise, that lets them use Raise in Combat as well.

 

I'd say it's up to personal preference, after all it's your game! But, that's what I see the benefits of being a CNJ Healer!

What...

I'm lv.30 and I had no idea of this *laughs at all her fail*. Thank you for the information!

 

As for Arcanists being the healers of the party, just the lack of Medica alone would make things very hard in some dungeons, in my opinion.

[Quuyn]

Also, and feel free to tell me your feelings on this. I tend to select a different target from the tank and sort of make a sub party of myself and topaz to kill one target while the other three focus on the other enemy(or other two if there are three.) sometime I will let carbuncle to its business with the enemy and throw some spells at the one that has the least number of people attacking it. unless the tank is attack one and the DPS is hitting the other, then I target the tanks target.

 

This is something that I could see a lot of groups getting pissy at you about, especially in the later levels where it gets a bit more difficult. Mainly tanks don't like it, but usually you'll find the 'hatred' of this style originating from people who have played other MMOs before, and just are 'used' to a the flow of things.

 

On a personal level as a healer, I couldn't care less because I just heal who needs healing, I usually don't pay attention to -where- that damage came from unless it's a giant red circle on my face. However, I know that I -personally- don't have 'pet' health displayed (Or if you even can display it) So if your Topaz Carbuncle died and then you yelled at me. I would -probably- huff and puff and.... not reply at all because I'm a doormat and I don't get angry.

 

SO IN SHORT; Most people will have a problem with that, especially later. As for me personally? DUNNAE GIVE A :moogle:

 

:thumbsup:

[LeCard]

 

 

As for Arcanists being the healers of the party, just the lack of Medica alone would make things very hard in some dungeons, in my opinion.

I keep seeing this, but what dungeons? I have yet to find a single dungeon(up through Halatali) that I cannot keep the party at max health with physic alone.

 

@Koyu You can see the pets health bar above their head. I was even able to keep an ACNs carby healed up just by angling the camera so carby was in view, though this can be difficult with alot of people/enemies names floating about. just a hint, carby is the green name tag. Also, a CNJ should NEVER be yelled at for a carby going down, it is the ACN pet and there for the ACN job to keep them alive. we even have skills just for that.

[Quuyn]

CNJ should NEVER be yelled at for a carby going down, it is the ACN pet and there for the ACN job to keep them alive. we even have skills just for that.

 

...I like you, you can stay. 

 

And on the Medica debate, I personally -rarely- use it. I rarely enough AoE damage unless everyone stands in the giant red circle to excuse it's mana cost. Medica costs an arm and a leg, I would only use it in an emergency. 

 

...However, that is also the appeal of it, isn't it! It was very useful during the Brayflox final boss fight where everyone stands in the goo.

[LeCard]

CNJ should NEVER be yelled at for a carby going down, it is the ACN pet and there for the ACN job to keep them alive. we even have skills just for that.

 

...I like you, you can stay. 

 

And on the Medica debate, I personally -rarely- use it. I rarely enough AoE damage unless everyone stands in the giant red circle to excuse it's mana cost. Medica costs an arm and a leg, I would only use it in an emergency. 

 

...However, that is also the appeal of it, isn't it! It was very useful during the Brayflox final boss fight where everyone stands in the goo.

one quick thing i will say in medica's defense is that it also heals carby. sort of a nice added bonus.

 

also, what lvl is brayflox? if it is level 30 or later, just get the Jobs for your classes and run from there. is there really any reason after level 30 to not grab the job?(or is brayflox part of story that leads to jobs?)

[Clover]

Umm... I have yet to run out of MP in a dungeon, truth be told. I remember this mini dungeon (whatever they're called, I forgot) where I had to abuse Medica because there was poison everywhere and HP bars kept going down. I also had to use it a lot at Ifrit; for that, I told everyone to please don't go too far away from me. There are also some parties where more than a single person is taking damage, so...

 

What can I say? I couldn't live without Medica *laughs*.

 

Edit: Then again, I'm quite a clumsy player, so perhaps I'm doing it wrong (?)

[Quuyn]

Brayflox is level 32, and your main story quest will take you there, as it did with most of the other dungeons. And transfering from WHM to CNJ only gives you one extra ability, so there isn't some drastic change between the two! But to actually get your job you have to fulfill the class prerequisties (15 Arcanist / 30 Conjurer for WHM) and then the quest for it will pop up in your class guild (WHM one being the Conjurer's guild.) 

 

But yea, you get jobs completely seperately from the storyline, you just need to get your classes to the right levels to get the quest. However, jobs don't seem to really do much right off the bat, the only thing it changed for me, I believe was a base stats boost and the addition of the WHM spell "Presence of Mind" Which is an activated cooldown which increases cast speed for a short time.

 

 

As for yooou Ms.Clover. It depends on playstyle. Personally I usually heal everyone individually with a cure to save mana, unless I -know- there's another AoE coming soon that could actually kill the DPS. Because they shouldn't be taking damage anyways! But that's just me.

[LeCard]

Brayflox is level 32, and your main story quest will take you there, as it did with most of the other dungeons. And transfering from WHM to CNJ only gives you one extra ability, so there isn't some drastic change between the two! But to actually get your job you have to fulfill the class prerequisties (15 Arcanist / 30 Conjurer for WHM) and then the quest for it will pop up in your class guild (WHM one being the Conjurer's guild.) 

 

But yea, you get jobs completely seperately from the storyline, you just need to get your classes to the right levels to get the quest. However, jobs don't seem to really do much right off the bat, the only thing it changed for me, I believe was a base stats boost and the addition of the WHM spell "Presence of Mind" Which is an activated cooldown which increases cast speed for a short time.

 

 

ACN gets a nice spell when they take on SCH. its called succor and it heals HP at a power of 300 plus the amount of HP healed is turned into a barrier that negates damage to that amount. So say the SCH heals for 200 hp, that heal also posts a 200 damage barrier on the target. (so effectively a 400hp heal?)

 

Edit: also if Crit hp is healed the barrier is doubled.

this means that you could just play rotate the heal( heal player 1, player 2, player 3, player 4 repeat) and as long as the enemy isn't doing more than 400 damage in the 15 seconds max it takes to do that your party would never take even one hp in damage to their bars.

[FreelanceWizard]

Medica's usually my emergency button as well, though it does have some general utility in fights that throw around a lot of AoE damage (Ifrit, most of Toto-Rak). If things are going well, the tank's the only one taking damage, and so I rarely have to use it.

 

ACN is weird class when it comes to group play. While they're classed as DPS, they're actually generalists; they have no natural role in a group. My logic, at least, is to do whatever it seems the group needs most. I'll off-heal DPS or the healer if they start getting hit, off-tank adds if there's no one to Sleep them, etc. If the group's solid, though, I just focus on pure DPS using Emerald.

[CalemvirLucin]

Just wanted to add that at level 38 CNJ/WHM gets some mana regen capabilities  (it also cuts enmity)

[Naunet]

It's too bad that the bulk of the ACN players running around right now are too busy pissing tanks off in dungeons by whipping out their Topaz Carbuncle at extremely inopportune times and/or annoying CNJs by trying to do the job they actually queued for... Topaz Carbuncles is great and all, but unless the tank is horrible or crap has hit the fan for whatever reason? In a dungeon setting, just put it away. We also don't need an ACN spamming Physick all over the place when the party has a capable CNJ. (This is not aimed at anyone in particular, btw. I'm just posting this as general advice for other ACNs.)

 

Yes to all of this. If you're queueing as a dps, ACN, (and that is ALL you can queue for) I expect you to dps - not ghetto pet tank or heal. If you want to do either of those, make your own pre-made party.