*sighs at Queues as DPS*

[Lost River]

Queues are one thing, when I tank or heal, it's faster. As with DPS, it's long... but lately, it's inhumanly long.

 

As we speak, I've been in queue for the Ifrit Trial for the past 40 minutes... this is becoming unbearable as it's tied to the main story.

[Jove]

Queues are one thing, when I tank or heal, it's faster. As with DPS, it's long... but lately, it's inhumanly long.

 

As we speak, I've been in queue for the Ifrit Trial for the past 40 minutes... this is becoming unbearable as it's tied to the main story.

 

I feel your pain, I like that dungeons are a part of the main story (because I'd probably skip them all until I got to 50) but not when the queues are 40 minutes+

 

Although on Thursday there is a patch that touches up on the duty finder, hopefully making it faster.

[Nnejo]

This is typically the case with any game unfortunately

[Oroban]

Goodness, I feel your pain. I'm maining monk right now, and I was in queue for about an hour earlier to get into Brayflox for the story quest. It's especially bothersome when you only have a few hours each day to play and you have to spend half of it in queue, risking the chance you might have to drop before dungeon completion. It makes my soul hurt...but I guess that's what I get for playing a DD class.

[Lost River]

Well, weird as it sounds, 30 or so minute queues was common for me for the other dungeons as DPS, BUUUUT... when it came to Trials or Story related? It was an even longer wait.

[erosskye]

Gotta fill in the time with them trade skills or somefin =)

[Lost River]

With me, I decided it was best to play my PS3 in the mean-time. :3

[LeCard]

Playing an ACN and can't wait to get SCH just so I can speed up my que times. Right now, I have determined that I am guaranteed a 30 min. wait just to get the initial group selection screen that is just looking for a healer.

 

The problem we face:

below level 30: 2 tank, 1 healer, 5 DPS

Above Level 30: 2tank, 2 healer, 5 DPS

 

the overwhelming number of DPS classes means that we are going to sit and wait no matter what they do to the duty finder. Unless they can get more people to play healer/tank and get those people to spread out evenly over those roles wait times will never go down.

 

what we need: 1 new tank class&job 2new healing class&1job. No new DPS until the first two have been done.

[Teardrop]

One of the things we try to do in our Free Company (Unsung Heroes) is pledge that no one be stuck in their story at the whims of the duty finder, and we create complete Free Company parties for pretty much everything multiple times daily . It's nice to be able to go through new content with friends and those you trust as well... though I realize not everyone has that option .

 

You don't have a Free Company listed in your information...maybe finding a home would help you .

[Jove]

Also it's worth joining the "Balmung's Finest" linkshell, lots of good people from these forums on there who will help you form a party.

[Dravus]

The lengthy queue times for DPS classes is a large part of the reason as to why I decided to try out tanking for myself. Unfortunately in exchange for shorter queue times I have a different set of potential issues to deal with!

 

My advice would be to try to forge your own group if you can. I've had a lot of success simply waiting outside a dungeon and using the shout chat channel to find friendly players willing to run alongside me. There's an element of luck involved, though - some days I get no responses at all!

[Moondoggie]

Well it's pretty common for DPS to have long waits because everyone plays DPS classes. They are the fastest to level and easiest to pick up and play. I think for the most part this game is a bit strange though. Until endgame people just don't really want to do anything. Fate grinding is so effective that basically all people do all day is camp an area and repeat the same fates. The LFG requests are almost all for Fate farming parties and for Endgame groups.

 

I enjoy dungeons in general so i often spam them and its hard to find groups sometimes.

[Naunet]

This is typically the case with any game unfortunately

 

Except, wonderfully enough, with Rift, as any class has access to all four roles (dps, tank, healer, and support) and most people tend to have souls for at least two different roles. That combined with the fact that you can queue as multiple roles means that even queueing for a dungeon as dps only gives you waits of 10-15 minutes.

[Vinter]

I usually just run around the area and invite people that fit what I need, until the group is complete. Some times, maybe I can't find that last person I need, the duty finder can take care of that. The thing is far better at finding one person than three.

You can't do that for Ifrit?

[FreelanceWizard]

what we need: 1 new tank class&job 2new healing class&1job. No new DPS until the first two have been done.

 

According to a recent Yoshida interview, they plan on allowing ACN to queue as a healer or DPS in the near future to help alleviate the pain -- but that the ultimate bottleneck is a lack of tanks.

 

Also, you can always try to grab people out of a certain society of mages.

[Briaya]

I understand completely. I had to wait over an hour when I got to these quests. It really is a bummer. I wish I was in a company to ask around for them, but the best thing is to ask people at the entrance of queued dungeon.

[Lost River]

Sadly, I didn't have that luck whatsoever. No one else was nearby for me to continue on. So I had to just wait it out.

[Fystrael Abylstyrwyn]

I'm planning to tank but I'm not even 20 yet, so I guess I need to speed it up (although I dislike power-leveling).

 

I'm trying my best to work on enmity generation and the like, but not sure why I can't hold it yet?  Topaz Carbuncle held more threat than I did in last half of Sastasha (my first time ever running it, yay!)

[Naunet]

Topaz Carbuncle held more threat than I did in last half of Sastasha (my first time ever running it, yay!)

 

If you're ever tanking a dungeon and there's an arcanist in the group using Topaz Carbuncle, feel free to tell them to use the blue one instead. They shouldn't be using their tanking pet in dungeons.

[LeCard]

what we need: 1 new tank class&job 2new healing class&1job. No new DPS until the first two have been done.

 

According to a recent Yoshida interview, they plan on allowing ACN to queue as a healer or DPS in the near future to help alleviate the pain -- but that the ultimate bottleneck is a lack of tanks.

 

Also, you can always try to grab people out of a certain society of mages.

Don't buy it. I can get a tank in the que alot more often than a healer. it seams every time I'm waiting its for a healer. maybe there are less tanks but they just do alot more, so it seems like there are more. I dunno. I just know I've never had a problem finding a tank, a healer? forget about it.

 

But ACN being able to que as both will be nice.

 

Edit: What Naunet said. As an ACN, I should never need to use topaz in a dungeon, unless we are getting overwhelmed by 6 mobs at once, then maybe off tank. But generally an ACN should stick to emerald in dungeons, even some of the best tanks have trouble stealing a mob from topaz, so it makes it impossible for a new tank to learn the role if topaz is out stealing the work from them.

[KitKat]

 

The problem we face:

below level 30: 2 tank, 1 healer, 5 DPS

Above Level 30: 2tank, 2 healer, 5 DPS

 

 

 

It's not as big a problem as you're thinking. Remember that dungeons queue 2 DPS and only 1 healer/tank.

 

The real problem is that people don't want to heal or tank. They want to "feel like [they] accomplish something" that apparently doing the damage seems to fulfill for them.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

The problem we face:

below level 30: 2 tank, 1 healer, 5 DPS

Above Level 30: 2tank, 2 healer, 5 DPS

 

 

 

It's not as big a problem as you're thinking. Remember that dungeons queue 2 DPS and only 1 healer/tank.

 

The real problem is that people don't want to heal or tank. They want to "feel like [they] accomplish something" that apparently doing the damage seems to fulfill for them.

 

Generally speaking, the reason why people don't want to Heal or Tank is because those two roles have far more responsibility put on them as compared to DPS roles.  When the group wipes, people start bitching at the healer (which I can attest to after having done a Stone Quarry where the tank could only tank one mob at a time, and the DPS bitched at me for not being able to keep the tank up while trying to keep myself alive with 4 of the 6 mobs on me).  If there's a shitty DPS who can't follow kill order, the tank's job becomes a nightmare of desperately trying to get threat back - and usually failing.  Then everyone is mad at him (because, geeze, why couldn't he hold threat?!) as opposed to the real culprit - that being the DPS.

 

It's why I don't pug using the duty finder at the moment, if at all possible.  I have tank friends and I run with them when at all possible.  It isn't worth my time as a healer to chance a bad tank or worse DPS.

[Rinh Hallani]

Generally speaking, the reason why people don't want to Heal or Tank is because those two roles have far more responsibility put on them as compared to DPS roles.  When the group wipes, people start bitching at the healer (which I can attest to after having done a Stone Quarry where the tank could only tank one mob at a time, and the DPS bitched at me for not being able to keep the tank up while trying to keep myself alive with 4 of the 6 mobs on me).  If there's a shitty DPS who can't follow kill order, the tank's job becomes a nightmare of desperately trying to get threat back - and usually failing.  Then everyone is mad at him (because, geeze, why couldn't he hold threat?!) as opposed to the real culprit - that being the DPS.

 

Yep, 100% this. The one thing that's put me off tanking is the "tank is god" mentality. You're expected to know the most efficient path through the dungeon, the tactics for every boss, spot a pat a mile away, hold aggro over dps who're targeting the wrong mob, bake a cherry pie whilst standing on your head, etc. It's a hell of a lot of responsibility to pile onto one role. It wouldn't be quite so bad if you were allowed to make mistakes as you learn but more often than not you get slammed in the face by a rage train.

 

If people want more tanks and shorter queues, they should work together as a team, share some of the responsibility and offer helpful tips to new or struggling tanks rather than shouting at them.

[Moondoggie]

You know the whole "Tank is god" think is not helped by certain Tanks who really act like they are god. I think the worst one i encountered i forget the name but i remember it being a lore one and that they are on Balmung. I can only assume they are an endgamer and have done Titan a bunch of times yet expected people who were new to the fight to be as good as them. After two wipes they yelled and rage quit.

 

I also had this ridiculous fight with a Tank and what i can only assume was his Girlfriend who is a DPS and kept butting in when i was trying to explain things in Brayflox. When i first entered she mouthed off about how the last healer couldn't heal so i knew exactly what was coming.

 

I always think that the Tank and Healer should have good communication the best runs i've had are when i'm really getting along with the Tank and we are looking after each other. For a new Dungeon i'll often follow the Tank and hope they know the route . If i know the place though i have no problems taking charge and just telling the Tank how to do mobs and bosses if they are new.

 

Tank and Healer really have the same base requirement in that you need to have thick skin and be able to work under pressure. It's very stressful when things have not been going well after a couple of wipes and the rage really starts. It's at a point where if i get something wrong i apologise even if nobody got mad .

 

 

 

Translation for when you ask why they have been wiping entering a group in progress:

 

"Tank can't hold aggro" = "We kept stealing mobs and then the healer got aggro from them when healing the tank"

 

"Healer can't heal" = "We are taking stupid damage and overwhelming the healer who is desperately trying to focus on the tank while chain healing the DPS"

 

 

Feel free to add more translations

[Rakoh]

It's not too bad at Lv50. BLM, DRG, MNK and BRD are all in high demand so you rarely have any issue with getting into a group as one if you ask around.

 

The main issue is that the average player is bad at teamwork. People tend to take on a "well it's his/her problem" mentality when it comes to taking responsibility in a group.

 

Let's use a patrol linking to a fight with a 4 man group of a WAR, WHM, BLM and MNK as an example. The patrol charges at the party, aggros the WHM due to healing aggro and kills him/her, resulting in a messy wipe. Whose fault is this?

 

1. The WAR, for picking a bad place to fight and not picking up the adds?
   
2. The WHM, for not Reposing the patrol as they got close and not running to the tank with the adds they aggro'd?
   
3. The BLM, for not using Sleep or Freeze to stop the patrol and controlling the adds in the first place?
   
4. The MNK, for fighting too close and not off tanking the patrol?
   

If you answered 5: All of the above, then you would be correct. Everyone needs to take responsibility. Rinh is completely right. People need to earn how to work together as a team and take responsibility and not only that, take initiative. I've prevented many messy wipes by being proactive with my Sleep on nearby patrols on BLM for example.

 

Giving each other tips and advice is another great thing. Like I didn't know that Bane from SMN or the Knockback from WHM don't break my sleep. So with that and some coordination from the WHM, we can sleep a mob that we aggro'd and punt it back to the tank to Flash/Provoke. Most tanks don't realise that Flash doesn't break sleep so there is no need to AoE with a BLM or WHM in the party. But they won't know that unless you tell them.

 

It is also very much work making friends ingame. Dungeon queues are short for everyone if you ask around and put together a group of 4 before queueing. It's even better if it is part of a regular group of people because a team that works together.

 

I always keep the following in mind in dungeons:

 

1. Yelling gets you nowhere. There is a person behind every character
   
2. Never assume malice when stupidity is why someone did something dumb.
   
3. Never assume stupidity when inexperience is why someone did something dumb.
   
4. Never assume inexperience when an honest mistake, lag or good old fashioned software/hardware failure is why someone did something dumb.
   
5. Always assume that there is someone completely new to every group.
   
6. Especially if they told you they have done the dungeon before.
   
7. Speed Runs are only to be done in a premade group with people you are confident in and play well with.
   
8. Wipes happen. Deal with it.
   
9. Seriously, wipes happen even to the best groups. maybe someone made a mistake or lag happened. Sometimes in a boss fight bad luck happens when it comes to mechanics or the circumstances making it impossible to avoid damage. There have been plenty of times when a wipe happened, it was nobody's fault but someone still ragequits anyway.
   
10. Take a break from the game regularly. no really, stepping away from the keyboard for about 15 mins is great for calming down after a stressful dungeon run.
    
11. Practise makes permanent. Practise with guidance makes perfect. Don't be afraid to ask other players as to how they do things, or anything at all. it's always best to look silly for a moment then to live in ignorance.