Primal Slayers IC

[DAISHI]

Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

[YesGood]

Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

 

 

I don't think I agree with this mindset at all.

 

---

 

To elaborate, I'm more in line with Lament on this in a way. And while I may gently ask someone OOCly if they know about the lore and redirect them here if not. But I wouldn't just outwardly deny it so much as try to help them make it more plausible. Of course I'm thinking -a- Primal not -the- Primal but some people might not realize that the summonings aren't the -actual- creature itself.

[Lament]

Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

 

I'm more of the mindset that it's within my right as a roleplayer to refuse to RP with a person if I disagree with the way they're playing their character.

[FreelanceWizard]

Mind you, it's within your right as a roleplayer to deny another roleplayer the claim. They might say they killed THE PRIMAL, but that doesn't mean you have to believe it, or acknowledge it. In fact your role as a roleplayer may be to call that person making the claim simply insane.

 

I don't think I agree with this mindset at all.

 

I'm actually on DAISHI's side here, if the claim is outlandish and contradictory to lore and we're talking about IC responses (calling another RPer crazy OOC is never a good move ). An example would be, "I killed Ifrit -- the only Ifrit, and he's not coming back ever, because he's dead permanently." That's a claim that's clearly contradictory to lore, since a major element of the story of the Scions is trying to figure out exactly how to deal with the Primals; killing them clearly doesn't work, since they can always be resummoned (being constructs of Aether and belief). About the only IC response you can have to someone claiming that they've permanently eliminated a Primal is, "You're nuts." You always have the OOC option of walking away, of course, but either way, productive RP ends. Accepting the claim is, I suppose, an option, but then you're rapidly deviating from lore to the benefit of another player -- that's a huge imposition with far-reaching impacts. It's better that one not make claims such as in this first place.

 

To a larger point, I think there's some confusion on this thread between destroying a Primal and destroying a Primal permanently. The former is supported in lore for elite adventurers (i.e., PCs) and large companies of relatively mundane warriors (i.e., the Immortal Flames). The latter is clearly out of bounds, as it stomps on a major element of the game's story and other players' stories.

[DAISHI]

There are few times I'll absolutely refuse to RP with someone. Hell, one person I knew claimed to be a Chocobo, another to be a half demon miqote.

 

But I certainly reserve the right to RP and claim you to be a stark raving loon.

[Lament]

I don't need to believe or acknowledge someone's character's claim of killing Ifrit, but whether my character will is another story entirely. If it would fit the character to call another character a lunatic, then by all means.

[C'io Behkt]

With an IC excuse, I say go for it. But unless you're a summoner, who pretty much needs an IC excuse to actually be one, or otherwise formerly part of a group who would have a reason to have been in the presence of a Primal at some point or another (e.g. part of a tempered community), I'd say skip it.

 

I think it is also fair to claim to have bested a Primal -with- a Summoner. Like say I'm a Summoner (I am), but my friend wants to have roleplayed having helped me in taking down Ifrit -- I think that is perfectly okay too!

 

Also, I find the conversation you guys are having about the difference between "a primal" and "the primal" really odd. Anyone on Eorzea who says they've defeated a primal can only ever speak of defeating its summoned manifestation: in no way can an Eorzean ever destroy a Primal permanently. This is because the Primal's true essence exists in the "lifestream," which is beyond the reach of mortals.

[Aleister]

While I think (with an accompanying epic tale) it's okay to say you've fought a primal (and no, not just you alone, I mean a large group of people when I say you) and beaten them back one of many times...I would (personally) say it's a bit much to IC-ly have the primal furniture.

 

Primals are supposed to be a realistically terrifying thing that trained magic users (summoners) are only able to control a fraction of. When normal, non-adventuring types encounter primals, they're forever changed and have to effectively be 'put down' as it were. So, I'd think housing a trophy piece of a creature like that, while it might make a great talking centerpiece, would kind of serve to downplay the very real threat they present to everyone they come into contact with.

 

 I have to agree with Zarek. I mean, I'm thinking of people with stuffed predators in their houses and I could see why it would bring them some sense of pride or something... but a Primal isn't a lion or a tiger or a bear (oh my!).

 

 You're also desecrating what's virtually a god to the beastmen, terrible as they may be. There might be some people who'd appreciate such a thing but it seems you wouldn't want to remind all of your FC or LS members who they might've lost or what they might've sacrificed in defeating a Primal.

 

 Another thing- I'm not sure about the summoned Primals, but if it were summoned and it wasn't -THE- Ifrit, wouldn't it... dissolve or something? I'm assuming there's like one Ifrit and when they summon it, it's merely an aspect of the same Ifrit, but then, I guess there must be numerous Carbuncles and such.

 

I'm really just not sure about that so I'd like some clarification if anyone has it.

 

 

 

Yeah I'm agreeing with this..  Yeah it is possible to ICly slay a primal but from what the storyline and lore has told me realistically you would lose much more to the point where.. Yeah you defeated a primal but it isn't a win.. It is still a loss for you rather than a victory.. because of the lives you lost and the people who were tempered and had to be put down as pointed out by the heroes company and other npcs in the game. Not to mention no one actually even speaks about the fights unless you hassle them down or give them a good reason for even talking about it.. exsample.. The remaining heroes company that disbanded.. They lost a lot of brave souls and from the impression I got in the storyline they try and not talk about it and keep it a secret that they were the survivors of the primal fights. I could be wrong but I got that impression.

 

 

How do I enable the spoiler thing? I'm not sure how to do it? And I don't wanna say spoilers without having that spoiler thing on it. (If what I said above is spoilers, asap tell me how to hide it! DX)

[Lament]

@C'io:

 

I think Summoners have plenty of IC reasons to take part in the killing of Primals - heck, you could even justify one obsessing over the next time Titan is going to show up so they can use its Egi, that sort of thing. So I agree!

 

A player could choose to disregard the lore and make the claim that their character killed the actual Primal. And then I would choose to disregard the player, as far as RP is concerned - I wouldn't react ICly to it because it's an OOC decision, not a player purposefully making their character claim to have done (what the player acknowledges as) the impossible. And I prefer to RP within the lore, myself, even if it does need to be twisted a bit sometimes (e.g. to explain the existence of multiple WHM even though the game says you're the first one in ages, that sort of thing).

[C'io Behkt]

How do I enable the spoiler thing? I'm not sure how to do it? And I don't wanna say spoilers without having that spoiler thing on it. (If what I said above is spoilers, asap tell me how to hide it! DX)

 

Use this tag, [ spoiler ] [ / spoiler ] only without the spaces, .

 

@C'io:

 

I think Summoners have plenty of IC reasons to take part in the killing of Primals - heck, you could even justify one obsessing over the next time Titan is going to show up so they can use its Egi, that sort of thing. So I agree!

 

A player could choose to disregard the lore and make the claim that their character killed the actual Primal. And then I would choose to disregard the player, as far as RP is concerned - I wouldn't react ICly to it because it's an OOC decision, not a player purposefully making their character claim to have done (what the player acknowledges as) the impossible. And I prefer to RP within the lore, myself, even if it does need to be twisted a bit sometimes (e.g. to explain the existence of multiple WHM even though the game says you're the first one in ages, that sort of thing).

 

I see what you mean now. If someone went to C'io and told her that they had killed THE Primal, she'd politely inform them of the metaphysics involved and how a permanent slaying of any Primal is impossible. She'd see it more as someone misinformed/uninformed rather than someone utterly mad.

 

Personally, I want Ramuh-egi, >_>

[Lament]

I think it'd be fun to see how characters would react IC to an impossible claim. Mine probably don't know nearly enough about Primals to make informed comments, so they would probably think it very much like a fisherman talking about catching one, nay, TEN sharks!

 

But if the player is the one insisting that their character vanquished THE Primal, whoops I left a cake in the oven...

[KitKat]

Hell, one person I knew claimed to be a Chocobo

 

If I ever get my hands on the chocobo outfit that the porters use, I'm totally pretending that my character's the chocobo and her chocobo is the adventurer. White mage barding! 8-)

 

((this is meant to be taken in jest. I would not -actually- RP as a chocobo, but I would dress as one!))

[Aleister]

I think it'd be fun to see how characters would react IC to an impossible claim. Mine probably don't know nearly enough about Primals to make informed comments, so they would probably think it very much like a fisherman talking about catching one, nay, TEN sharks!

 

But if the player is the one insisting that their character vanquished THE Primal, whoops I left a cake in the oven...

Pretty much the same as my character.. heck even saying that they slayed A primal my guy would probably laugh and play along sarcastically and afterwards just kinda maybe depending on how the conversation goes... scoot away and kindly ignore them.

[C'io Behkt]

Pretty much the same as my character.. heck even saying that they slayed A primal my guy would probably laugh and play along sarcastically and afterwards just kinda maybe depending on how the conversation goes... scoot away and kindly ignore them.

 

And what about when you see the egi?

 

Which, while a playful statement, actually is a legitimate concern, I think. Personally, I don't intend to (yet, we'll see) go beyond Ifrit. The canon on Titan and Garuda is far too tight.

[Naunet]

Pretty much the same as my character.. heck even saying that they slayed A primal my guy would probably laugh and play along sarcastically and afterwards just kinda maybe depending on how the conversation goes... scoot away and kindly ignore them.

 

And what about when you see the egi?

 

Yeah, I don't think slaying primals is the kind of thing where one needs to break out the haughty "You can't do that" schtick.

[Aleister]

Pretty much the same as my character.. heck even saying that they slayed A primal my guy would probably laugh and play along sarcastically and afterwards just kinda maybe depending on how the conversation goes... scoot away and kindly ignore them.

 

And what about when you see the egi?

 

Which, while a playful statement, actually is a legitimate concern, I think. Personally, I don't intend to (yet, we'll see) go beyond Ifrit. The canon on Titan and Garuda is far too tight.

Egi is kind of the proof right there which you can't really go saying "I DUN'T BELIEVE YOU."

[DAISHI]

Let me take it the other direction. If very RPer claims to kills Primals then regardless of in game Lore, my character would cease to be impressed. I'd have a casual indifference to the cla because everyone I know kills Primals. I'd be like... Ok so what. Because role players have de facto already created an alternative lore on the basis of their overwhelming claims. This is a problem you the individual role player didn't intend to create, but is almost inevitable if multitudes can make the claim.

[Aleister]

Pretty much the same as my character.. heck even saying that they slayed A primal my guy would probably laugh and play along sarcastically and afterwards just kinda maybe depending on how the conversation goes... scoot away and kindly ignore them.

 

And what about when you see the egi?

 

Yeah, I don't think slaying primals is the kind of thing where one needs to break out the haughty "You can't do that" schtick.

I ever say that? I could read on how someone slayed a primal OOC and if its legit and nothing really mary sue I'll respect it but IC no way would my character (Aleister at least) would believe anyone just up and saying they killed a primal cause anyone can say that. My character can believe it after knowing the person long enough and either getting a type of proof or just feel that they aren't lying about it. Its not me saying you can't do that its just me saying in character I don't believe you.

 

There is a npc in the storyline that goes about saying he was one of the survivors that killed a primal but it turned out this guy was a complete fake.

 

[C'io Behkt]

Egi is kind of the proof right there which you can't really go saying "I DUN'T BELIEVE YOU."

 

Right? Which I know will bring me at odds against my belief that taking down Titan or Garuda would be a much more Herculean effort than taking down Ifrit. I actually don't know yet how I'll handle someone showing me Titan-egi or Garuda-egi, .

[Aleister]

Egi is kind of the proof right there which you can't really go saying "I DUN'T BELIEVE YOU."

 

Right? Which I know will bring me at odds against my belief that taking down Titan or Garuda would be a much more Herculean effort than taking down Ifrit. I actually don't know yet how I'll handle someone showing me Titan-egi or Garuda-egi, .

Yeah me personally I would have a really big issue with seeing a titan-egi or a garuda-egi in RP unless the guy's RP was legit in how he obtained it cause those two primals.. Oh boy they make Ifrit look like a kid derping about in a fish net.. ESPECIALLY post-game haha.

 

Just saying in general.. If I were to choose to have in my character's story about him facing a primal (I thought about it) It would be that he almost got tempered but a dear friend leaped in the way and saved Aleister by letting him get tempered but I don't know how that would work out? Cause.. it could possibly go right straight through people and continue hitting others? -shrug-

[C'io Behkt]

Let me take it the other direction. If very RPer claims to kills Primals then regardless of in game Lore, my character would cease to be impressed. I'd have a casual indifference to the cla because everyone I know kills Primals. I'd be like... Ok so what. Because role players have de facto already created an alternative lore on the basis of their overwhelming claims. This is a problem you the individual role player didn't intend to create, but is almost inevitable if multitudes can make the claim.

 

However, in the case of Ifrit, nobody has created an alternative lore. It is CANON that there is a list maintained by the Immortal Flames of people who have defeated Ifrit.

 

And if we play math, say we have 3 x 128 RPers on Balmung. That's 384 (or 3 full linkshells). Say we divide that 384 equally among each of the 9 Jobs and assign 1/9th to Summoners with Ifrit. That's 42 people. 42 people on an entire continent claiming to have beat Ifrit is not even close to "multitudes"; instead, they are the outliers, rare.

[YesGood]

Let me take it the other direction. If very RPer claims to kills Primals then regardless of in game Lore, my character would cease to be impressed. I'd have a casual indifference to the cla because everyone I know kills Primals. I'd be like... Ok so what. Because role players have de facto already created an alternative lore on the basis of their overwhelming claims. This is a problem you the individual role player didn't intend to create, but is almost inevitable if multitudes can make the claim.

 

-If- being the keyword.

 

The majority of people in this thread have said, more or less, that they haven't and wouldn't do it themselves even if they don't have a problem with it happening.

 

Likely, the majority of RPers in FFXIV will feel the same way.

[Oroban]

But...them being defeated is part of lore. How can you say what parts of established lore you'll follow, and which you won't? I mean, yes, they're presented as nigh insurmountable forces of nature, but it's established that it can, and HAS, happened in the past, oft repeatedly. My biggest question is if you're going to allow gameplay things like the egis as proof that a PC can defeat them, why can't someone say that because the game's main story said they solo'd Ifrit, they did? The problem with drawing the line in the middle is that everyone has a different idea of exactly what the middle is, especially once you start mingling gameplay concepts with conceptual and lore concepts.

[Aleister]

But...them being defeated is part of lore. How can you say what parts of established lore you'll follow, and which you won't? I mean, yes, they're presented as nigh insurmountable forces of nature, but it's established that it can, and HAS, happened in the past, oft repeatedly. My biggest question is if you're going to allow gameplay things like the egis as proof that a PC can defeat them, why can't someone say that because the game's main story said they solo'd Ifrit, they did? The problem with drawing the line in the middle is that everyone has a different idea of exactly what the middle is, especially once you start mingling gameplay concepts with conceptual and lore concepts.

I generally don't let gameplay stuff conflict my RP until say a summon ICly summons the ifrit-egi. I think going by anything from the storyline is crossing the borderline for me.. Cause that is the hero of light's storyline..

[C'io Behkt]

But...them being defeated is part of lore. How can you say what parts of established lore you'll follow, and which you won't? I mean, yes, they're presented as nigh insurmountable forces of nature, but it's established that it can, and HAS, happened in the past, oft repeatedly. My biggest question is if you're going to allow gameplay things like the egis as proof that a PC can defeat them, why can't someone say that because the game's main story said they solo'd Ifrit, they did? The problem with drawing the line in the middle is that everyone has a different idea of exactly what the middle is, especially once you start mingling gameplay concepts with conceptual and lore concepts.

I generally don't let gameplay stuff conflict my RP until say a summon ICly summons the ifrit-egi. I think going by anything from the storyline is crossing the borderline for me.. Cause that is the hero of light's storyline..

 

I tend to not take from the Main Hero of Light's storyline either. From what I understand, very few people intend to. Even C'io's story of how she defeated Ifrit is very, very different.