Primal Slayers IC

[DAISHI]

Wait, now previous evidence is being asked to be submitted on an at whims basis. We only formerly made the claim that the egi evidence. If so then my character observes the ease of a Primals defeat on the basis of sight as well as word. Then every person I see with one would be evidence. Meaning that it is actually as easy as I would take it, GIVEN that this very thread has submitted the egi must be evidence. You cannot ask it to be evidence only when requested or role play will have no logical internal consistency.

[Aleister]

Wait, now previous evidence is being asked to be submitted on an at whims basis. We only formerly made the claim that the egi evidence. If so then my character observes the ease of a Primals defeat on the basis of sight as well as word. Then every person I see with one would be evidence. Meaning that it is actually as easy as I would take it, GIVEN that this very thread has submitted the egi must be evidence. You cannot ask it to be evidence only when requested or role play will have no logical internal consistency.

No-no.. I will not even bother with the egi gameplay thing unless the RPer who has it has stated its existence ICly.. Same goes for mini-pets as well. I believe gameplay stuff should stay out of RP unless brought into the RP session by the character but that is just me. RP addons would help on knowing if the RPer has a egi or a minion following them about like the ones in WoW but sadly we don't have those yet. (Though I will never accept ICly someone having a baby behemoth.. >_> cause I'm pretty sure.. give it a hour the momma is gonna come destroying a city, amirite?)

[DAISHI]

I find this topic fascinating. Good debates are arousing.

[KitKat]

Wait, now previous evidence is being asked to be submitted on an at whims basis. We only formerly made the claim that the egi evidence. If so then my character observes the ease of a Primals defeat on the basis of sight as well as word. Then every person I see with one would be evidence. Meaning that it is actually as easy as I would take it, GIVEN that this very thread has submitted the egi must be evidence. You cannot ask it to be evidence only when requested or role play will have no logical internal consistency.

No-no.. I will not even bother with the egi gameplay thing unless the RPer who has it has stated its existence ICly.. Same goes for mini-pets as well. I believe gameplay stuff should stay out of RP unless brought into the RP session by the character but that is just me. RP addons would help on knowing if the RPer has a egi or a minion following them about like the ones in WoW but sadly we don't have those yet. (Though I will never accept ICly someone having a baby behemoth.. >_> cause I'm pretty sure.. give it a hour the momma is gonna come destroying a city, amirite?)

 

I don't have any opinion on the summoner/primal stuff (I see arguments both for and against using them in RP), but as for the minion pets, I like to think of all of them as windup clockworks. Many of them are already listed as windups. So that Baby Behemoth is actually just a toy.

[Aleister]

Wait, now previous evidence is being asked to be submitted on an at whims basis. We only formerly made the claim that the egi evidence. If so then my character observes the ease of a Primals defeat on the basis of sight as well as word. Then every person I see with one would be evidence. Meaning that it is actually as easy as I would take it, GIVEN that this very thread has submitted the egi must be evidence. You cannot ask it to be evidence only when requested or role play will have no logical internal consistency.

No-no.. I will not even bother with the egi gameplay thing unless the RPer who has it has stated its existence ICly.. Same goes for mini-pets as well. I believe gameplay stuff should stay out of RP unless brought into the RP session by the character but that is just me. RP addons would help on knowing if the RPer has a egi or a minion following them about like the ones in WoW but sadly we don't have those yet. (Though I will never accept ICly someone having a baby behemoth.. >_> cause I'm pretty sure.. give it a hour the momma is gonna come destroying a city, amirite?)

 

I don't have any opinion on the summoner/primal stuff (I see arguments both for and against using them in RP), but as for the minion pets, I like to think of all of them as windup clockworks. Many of them are already listed as windups. So that Baby Behemoth is actually just a toy.

Very good point.. didn't think it as that! Phew! Don't gotta worry about that momma behemoth smashing a city now!

[Havoc Snow]

Keep in mind that Ifrit and Garuda were around during 1.0 as well which meant there were plenty of chances to defeat them before even the Battle of Carteneau, the current storyline merely suggests that no one has really managed to defeat Garuda since the Warriors of Light disappeared, though...

 

 

In the course of the storyline we see Ifrit and Titan summoned not once, not twice, but three times at different points in the storyline. The first being when you fight them the first time, the second is when Garuda summons them herself, and the last being when each Beast tribe summons the hard mode versions of them. Garuda appears twice as well, once during her original fight and once when the Ixal summon the hard mode version, and there is an actual storyline involving these hard modes, they are not merely a mechanics change that unlocks at the end of the game. My point being that I think it is safe to assume all the primals will continue to  be summoned again and again once they have been defeated in the storyline, giving ample opportunity for players to have claimed beating them if they wish.

 

[FreelanceWizard]

I tend to not take from the Main Hero of Light's storyline either. From what I understand, very few people intend to. Even C'io's story of how she defeated Ifrit is very, very different.

 

I would argue that a very vocal group of RPers on this forum has indicated that they ignore all story (and thus lore) from the main scenario quest, but that in aggregate, they're a minority. The majority of RPers most likely take from the MSQ generic bits, pieces, and themes that can apply to any character and that they feel fit their character concept -- such as, say, defeating one or more Primals in battle, having the Echo, having an airship pass, working for the Scions, or joining a Grand Company.

 

@Aleister: The lore is quite clear that Primals are being summoned and defeated on a regular basis, with the rate of summoning increasing, and that this is a growing problem for Eorzea that multiple groups are attempting to solve (and some are using adventurers to try to solve). I don't think it's wise to take the stance IC that "all these adventurers making such claims must be liars or insane," despite the fact that PCs are in fact the rare, elite adventurers, because then you're the character making the claim contradictory to lore. It would be like playing in a superhero MMO where powerful villains are regularly captured and escape, then claiming that anyone who says they captured a villain who subsequently escaped must be a liar or nuts, because clearly they'd be outclassed in that fight.

 

EDIT: It occurs to me that I should probably clarify my statement about the MSQ. When I say "generic bits, pieces, and themes," I refer to the end results, not necessarily the exact way the MSQ portrays it happening. For instance, you may defeat Ifrit in some totally different way, get an airship pass by pickpocketing someone with one, or not even know you have the Echo -- you just know you can't be Tempered for some reason. That's what I mean by being "generic."

[Lament]

Egi is kind of the proof right there which you can't really go saying "I DUN'T BELIEVE YOU."

 

Right? Which I know will bring me at odds against my belief that taking down Titan or Garuda would be a much more Herculean effort than taking down Ifrit. I actually don't know yet how I'll handle someone showing me Titan-egi or Garuda-egi, .

 

That's part of why I reserve the right to not RP if I think someone's pushing the canon too far (for my personal tastes). The lore is there, yes, and people will choose to follow it to varying degrees. We all have our little headcanons of how things related to our characters actually work - one summoner's take on canon may be different from the next, so it would boil down to incompatible RP.

 

If you play a SMN who would, logically, keep track of when Titan and Garuda show up, and then suddenly another RPer comes up and their character makes contradictory claims to that knowledge, providing IC proof (in this case the egi)... you can just choose to disregard that particular interaction.

 

When joining a group with a joint storyline, though, these things should probably be discussed beforehand so everyone is on the same page. It wouldn't do for the group to have established that their particular headcanon is that Titan and Garuda have been out of reach for decades, and then a 20 year old SMN joins the group with both egi and starts showing them off, disregarding what was previously agreed on.

 

For me it's similar to like... someone's character having the Echo and proving it by knowing things that you've revealed about your own character OOC, but not IC. Yes, someone with the Echo *could* find out, but if you don't want that to happen, nobody can force it on your character just because it's doable in-game.

[C'io Behkt]

Keep in mind that Ifrit and Garuda were around during 1.0 as well which meant there were plenty of chances to defeat them before even the Battle of Carteneau, the current storyline merely suggests that no one has really managed to defeat Garuda since the Warriors of Light disappeared, though...

 

This is an excellent point, particularly since we live on a Legacy server. In the 15 years after the lifting of the veil on Silvertear Lake, ample opportunities may have existed before the Beastmen really refined their methods of summoning. This also lends credence to the depth of the list maintained by the Immortal Flames.

 

I would argue that a very vocal group of RPers on this forum has indicated that they ignore all story (and thus lore) from the main scenario quest, but that in aggregate, they're a minority. The majority of RPers most likely take from the MSQ generic bits, pieces, and themes that can apply to any character and that they feel fit their character concept -- such as, say, defeating one or more Primals in battle, having the Echo, having an airship pass, working for the Scions, or joining a Grand Company.

 

EDIT: It occurs to me that I should probably clarify my statement about the MSQ. When I say "generic bits, pieces, and themes," I refer to the end results, not necessarily the exact way the MSQ portrays it happening. For instance, you may defeat Ifrit in some totally different way, get an airship pass by pickpocketing someone with one, or not even know you have the Echo -- you just know you can't be Tempered for some reason. That's what I mean by being "generic."

 

I think that the statement "ignore all story (and thus lore)" is extreme and dangerously close to misrepresenting my position since I never said to ignore all story and ignore all lore. In fact, I'm doing precisely what you say most RPers do--steal elements. I've taken the Echo, for instance, albeit a different and likely never to be self-realized form of it, and membership with the Grand Company. But fair enough, I see your point all the same and the wisdom in it. Especially because I've picked and chosen, I shouldn't be judgemental of others who've done the same.

 

That said, I expect stellar stories from those of you who will claim to have bested of Titan and Garuda! Hehe. I will be highly discerning on that front.

 

Tangential, but there's a part of the main storyline that I think really refers to the rest of us players and sets up the game universe in which the NPCs mention the contributions made/to be made by elite cadres of adventurers. Still doing great things, but doing different great things. That's where I place everyone and why it is okay to have outliers. An Umbral era, after all, should be as much a time for heroes as it is a time for suffering.

[LiadansWhisper]

Keep in mind that Ifrit and Garuda were around during 1.0 as well which meant there were plenty of chances to defeat them before even the Battle of Carteneau, the current storyline merely suggests that no one has really managed to defeat Garuda since the Warriors of Light disappeared, though...

 

This is an excellent point, particularly since we live on a Legacy server. In the 15 years after the lifting of the veil on Silvertear Lake, ample opportunities may have existed before the Beastmen really refined their methods of summoning. This also lends credence to the depth of the list maintained by the Immortal Flames.

 

I would argue that a very vocal group of RPers on this forum has indicated that they ignore all story (and thus lore) from the main scenario quest, but that in aggregate, they're a minority. The majority of RPers most likely take from the MSQ generic bits, pieces, and themes that can apply to any character and that they feel fit their character concept -- such as, say, defeating one or more Primals in battle, having the Echo, having an airship pass, working for the Scions, or joining a Grand Company.

 

EDIT: It occurs to me that I should probably clarify my statement about the MSQ. When I say "generic bits, pieces, and themes," I refer to the end results, not necessarily the exact way the MSQ portrays it happening. For instance, you may defeat Ifrit in some totally different way, get an airship pass by pickpocketing someone with one, or not even know you have the Echo -- you just know you can't be Tempered for some reason. That's what I mean by being "generic."

 

I think that the statement "ignore all story (and thus lore)" is extreme and dangerously close to misrepresenting my position since I never said to ignore all story and ignore all lore. In fact, I'm doing precisely what you say most RPers do--steal elements. I've taken the Echo, for instance, albeit a different and likely never to be self-realized form of it, and membership with the Grand Company. But fair enough, I see your point all the same and the wisdom in it. Especially because I've picked and chosen, I shouldn't be judgemental of others who've done the same.

 

That said, I expect stellar stories from those of you who will claim to have bested of Titan and Garuda! Hehe. I will be highly discerning on that front.

 

Tangential, but there's a part of the main storyline that I think really refers to the rest of us players and sets up the game universe in which the NPCs mention the contributions made/to be made by elite cadres of adventurers. Still doing great things, but doing different great things. That's where I place everyone and why it is okay to have outliers. An Umbral era, after all, should be as much a time for heroes as it is a time for suffering.

 

I guess I kind of see your point, but I'll be honest...  While I myself hadn't planned on using those battles in my own character's background, what you (and others) have posted has honestly come across to me as very stand-offish, and exclusionary.  I mean, if one part of the lore in the game (that being that the Primals are being summoned at an increasing rate, and are being repeatedly defeated by both groups of adventurers and larger-scale groups within the Grand Companies) just isn't something you want to deal with, I have to ask what else from the story you're against having people have in their backgrounds?

 

TBH, what these posts do is intimidate players like me from ever even trying to RP with players like you.  Because I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't look down your nose at the story for my character.

[FreelanceWizard]

I think that the statement "ignore all story (and thus lore)" is extreme and dangerously close to misrepresenting my position since I never said to ignore all story and ignore all lore. In fact, I'm doing precisely what you say most RPers do--steal elements. I've taken the Echo, for instance, albeit a different and likely never to be self-realized form of it, and membership with the Grand Company. But fair enough, I see your point all the same and the wisdom in it. Especially because I've picked and chosen, I shouldn't be judgemental of others who've done the same.

 

Ack! I wasn't meaning to call you out specifically. I see that you, like most people, pick and choose what fits your story. I was commenting on the relative number of people who turn the "story and lore from the MSQ" dial all the way down to zero being a small minority, not saying that you're in that category. I see I wasn't as clear about that as I should have been, for which I apologize.

 

Funny enough, while in game, L'yhta has served Ifrit many times (I feel bad for people waiting on a healer), I don't RP her as having encountered him even once. I do, however, expect to write it into her story at some point when it fits and is appropriately epic, and I certainly feel other players have the same right to do so (or not, as they see fit).

[YesGood]

I guess I kind of see your point, but I'll be honest...  While I myself hadn't planned on using those battles in my own character's background, what you (and others) have posted has honestly come across to me as very stand-offish, and exclusionary.  I mean, if one part of the lore in the game (that being that the Primals are being summoned at an increasing rate, and are being repeatedly defeated by both groups of adventurers and larger-scale groups within the Grand Companies) just isn't something you want to deal with, I have to ask what else from the story you're against having people have in their backgrounds?

 

TBH, what these posts do is intimidate players like me from ever even trying to RP with players like you.  Because I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't look down your nose at the story for my character.

 

This pretty much summarizes all of my feelings and concerns. Except more eloquently.

 

Many of us -want- to say we'll RP in game regardless of anything OOC, but it does register, at least in our subconscious in the form of worry, doubt, or even fear, when people say things that make us worried about how they would perceive us. It might be one or two people but when ten or twenty start piping up with the same point, it makes us hesitant and distant, furthering the issue of people who aren't as open or bold about walk-up RP.

 

I get pretty concerned that many good people I've seen on this RPC are just too good for me. Literally too good. Like their skills are faaaar superior to my own. That's enough to worry about without the extraneous fear of judgement or concern someone will walk off on me because of something I put in my character's background; worse is the fact that many of the people who feel this way would actually be just fine RPing with someone with an outlandish claim or a not-fully-informed background for their character than they present here in the forums.

[Lament]

 

I guess I kind of see your point, but I'll be honest...  While I myself hadn't planned on using those battles in my own character's background, what you (and others) have posted has honestly come across to me as very stand-offish, and exclusionary.  I mean, if one part of the lore in the game (that being that the Primals are being summoned at an increasing rate, and are being repeatedly defeated by both groups of adventurers and larger-scale groups within the Grand Companies) just isn't something you want to deal with, I have to ask what else from the story you're against having people have in their backgrounds?

 

TBH, what these posts do is intimidate players like me from ever even trying to RP with players like you.  Because I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't look down your nose at the story for my character.

 

I posted similar things, I ran RP groups for years in a highly judgmental environment, so I'll take a gander:

 

You can RP however you like. If you want to RP a different fandom altogether within FFXIV, you can. Nobody has any right to judge you for what you like to do, especially as a hobby, if you're not harming anyone.

 

But RP, ultimately, comes down to compatibility. You can be the most open-minded person in the world, but if your style and someone else's don't match, then they don't match, and there is little anyone can do about it.

 

I like planning things in advance and discussing characters extensively. I like having an idea of where my character is headed. I also know that plans are fluid and can change, but I still enjoy them, and I especially enjoy figuring out ways to get two seemingly unrelated characters to interact based on discussion (which by default requires some planning). I RP best with people who like to mix spontaneity with a bit of planning and plenty of discussion.

 

Likewise, someone else may not enjoy planning in advance at all. If I suggest planning, this may annoy them, and make them feel like I'm trying to control the direction their character goes in, for instance. They may prefer to not disclose details about their character at all, and let everything happen naturally and spontaneously. They would RP best with like-minded people.

 

Neither style is superior to the other. They're just different. I probably would not RP with someone who likes full spontaneity only, because it's likely to cause conflict - not because I think they're inferior.

 

If there's a part of lore someone would prefer to be moderate about (or disregard), that's their prerogative. If someone wants to disregard lore altogether, that's their prerogative. If someone wants to consider the main storyline as actually having happened to their character, that's their prerogative.

 

There's no elitism in having standards. There is in pushing them on other people. You don't need to RP with someone if you feel their standards are too different from yours. That's okay. RP is like any other hobby - you like some things, other people like other things, and nobody needs to change what they like to fit the needs of someone else. If you dislike classical music, I shouldn't be making you listen to it. If I dislike rock, you shouldn't be making me listen to it. You can listen to rock and I can listen to classical music and we can both be happy.

[YesGood]

 

I guess I kind of see your point, but I'll be honest...  While I myself hadn't planned on using those battles in my own character's background, what you (and others) have posted has honestly come across to me as very stand-offish, and exclusionary.  I mean, if one part of the lore in the game (that being that the Primals are being summoned at an increasing rate, and are being repeatedly defeated by both groups of adventurers and larger-scale groups within the Grand Companies) just isn't something you want to deal with, I have to ask what else from the story you're against having people have in their backgrounds?

 

TBH, what these posts do is intimidate players like me from ever even trying to RP with players like you.  Because I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't look down your nose at the story for my character.

 

I posted similar things, I ran RP groups for years in a highly judgmental environment, so I'll take a gander:

 

You can RP however you like. If you want to RP a different fandom altogether within FFXIV, you can. Nobody has any right to judge you for what you like to do, especially as a hobby, if you're not harming anyone.

 

But RP, ultimately, comes down to compatibility. You can be the most open-minded person in the world, but if your style and someone else's don't match, then they don't match, and there is little anyone can do about it.

 

I like planning things in advance and discussing characters extensively. I like having an idea of where my character is headed. I also know that plans are fluid and can change, but I still enjoy them, and I especially enjoy figuring out ways to get two seemingly unrelated characters to interact based on discussion (which by default requires some planning). I RP best with people who like to mix spontaneity with a bit of planning and plenty of discussion.

 

Likewise, someone else may not enjoy planning in advance at all. If I suggest planning, this may annoy them, and make them feel like I'm trying to control the direction their character goes in, for instance. They may prefer to not disclose details about their character at all, and let everything happen naturally and spontaneously. They would RP best with like-minded people.

 

Neither style is superior to the other. They're just different. I probably would not RP with someone who likes full spontaneity only, because it's likely to cause conflict - not because I think they're inferior.

 

If there's a part of lore someone would prefer to be moderate about (or disregard altogether), that's their prerogative. If someone wants to disregard lore altogether, that's their prerogative. If someone wants to consider the main storyline as actually having happened to their character, that's their prerogative.

 

There's no elitism in having standards. There is in pushing them on other people. You don't need to RP with someone if you feel their standards are too different from yours. That's okay. RP is like any other hobby - you like some things, other people like other things, and nobody needs to change what they like to fit the needs of someone else. If you dislike classical music, I shouldn't be making you listen to it. If I dislike rock, you shouldn't be making me listen to it. You can listen to rock and I can listen to classical music and we can both be happy.

 

But isn't there a level of confusion for new people who see us say things like this that makes them think they need to change what they're doing before ever getting into the game? To act more in the way of people who favor or write really convincing posts or explanations, even if they're not entirely based on lore so much as their own opinions?

 

People want to fit in, especially in something they enjoy. If I'm really impressed by a character and the RPer has standards like yours, despite my own, I'll probably try to accommodate you. Some people don't know how. It can be very disheartening or frightening.

[C'io Behkt]

Ack! I wasn't meaning to call you out specifically. I see that you, like most people, pick and choose what fits your story. I was commenting on the relative number of people who turn the "story and lore from the MSQ" dial all the way down to zero being a small minority, not saying that you're in that category. I see I wasn't as clear about that as I should have been, for which I apologize.

 

Funny enough, while in game, L'yhta has served Ifrit many times (I feel bad for people waiting on a healer), I don't RP her as having encountered him even once. I do, however, expect to write it into her story at some point when it fits and is appropriately epic, and I certainly feel other players have the same right to do so (or not, as they see fit).

 

Hehe, I figured you weren't, but for future readers I wanted to be clear on it because misunderstandings built on something even as small as that can snowball poorly. It's all okay, I conceded also that you were right and that I was admittedly being judge-y of others doing the same thing I was doing, so it was a moment of valuable reflection for me also, .

 

Heh, in C'io's, it is a past event from when she had only first showed up at Ul'dah. And her win is more a confluence of several matters of good fortune. A complex scenario of "I got lucky" born from the fact that I inadvertently (before knowing anything about SMN lore) set her origin as the very place game lore states the lost art of Summoning was dug out from! So from a meta-perspective, she was lucky there as well, heh.

[Lament]

 

But isn't there a level of confusion for new people who see us say things like this that makes them think they need to change what they're doing before ever getting into the game? To act more in the way of people who favor or write really convincing posts or explanations, even if they're not entirely based on lore so much as their own opinions?

 

People want to fit in, especially in something they enjoy. If I'm really impressed by a character and the RPer has standards like yours, despite my own, I'll probably try to accommodate you. Some people don't know how. It can be very disheartening or frightening.

 

Yes, being new comes with its own set of issues, especially when trying to fit into an established group. It's extremely intimidating to try to fit someone else's firmly established standards - I've been there. The first RP group I was ever in (before then I'd only done one-on-one) was controlling, judgmental and extremely toxic. They bullied someone out of their corner of the internet because she said she disliked a character that the moderators liked (I wish I was kidding). They kept private chatrooms to mock and laugh at other players and their characters. I'm not even exaggerating out of spite - they openly edited their profiles and made lengthy posts with insults and mockery for everyone to see.

 

Eventually they managed to drive out 90% of their players. They are so incredibly possessive that they actually took over the characters of players who left.

 

That was my first exposure to group RP. All of these people were extremely well-spoken and wrote lengthy, detailed, convincing explanations. Naturally, I took it as the RP standard for a while, and so did others, or we wouldn't have joined - but eventually, we realized that those were actually terrible standards, and left.

 

Which isn't to say every newbie's experience is as extreme - there are great people out there, just as much as there are jerks out there. Both can be equally eloquent and sound equally convincing, and both can surprise you with how accommodating they can (or can't) be.

 

I'm past the stage of experimentation and I know exactly what I'm looking for in RP these days - new people often do not, and the only solution is to get out there and experiment. You may be really impressed by someone's character and a big fan of their interpretation of lore, and then end up really disappointed in the person themselves. Or you may think someone sounds uninformed and outlandish, and they're the easiest person in the world to work with.

 

I can only speak for myself, but while I am very set on what kind of RP I am looking for, I am also very likely to do as much as possible to include someone who wants to try it out. I likely can't/won't change a group's established lore to accommodate one person, since that'd be unreasonable, but I'm more than willing to try and find alternatives/explanations for things. Sometimes a thing or two about a character just won't fit with the group's headcanon, which is unfortunate. I have, personally, rolled alts before to fit in with a group, because an existing character wouldn't. It happens.

 

I've been called intimidating multiple times. People are often afraid to talk to me and end up judged (or worse, somehow). But in the end, if people don't put themselves out there and try to talk to RPers/groups they like, then they really won't find a group to belong in. Everyone who is experienced today started somewhere, too.

 

On the plus side, since people who have set standards also tend to be very vocal about those standards, you have a better idea of what to expect, and if you want to avoid those people, you can. Ironically, I am shy about open world RP. It intimidates me to not know what other people's standards are, to not know if I'm intruding or not. I can't just walk up to someone and RP, anxiety dictates I need to know what to expect before I try.

 

...Which is why I only even signed up in these forums after a topic I could identify with came up.

[Rinh Hallani]

I've been on the receiving end of hostility towards a different style of RP. It's not nice. I'm a good RPer! I'm not too modest to say that, but nor am I the best, and I'm very open to adapting, adjusting and learning. Perhaps as a result, I'm very forgiving of so-called RP sins. In a RP community, if you close yourself off to an entire group of people just because you don't play the same way they do, I think you're losing out. I've come across people new to RP, and it clearly showed, but many of them improved and became fantastic RPers over time. I try very hard not to write people off, no matter how dire it seems at first.

 

For that matter, I would imagine some, if not most, new players are not so hip on the lore. Turning them away because they haven't seen the lengthy discussions on the RPC and just rolled with what the game presented to them is short sighted in my opinion. You could've brushed off a really amazing RPer just because they ICly have the Echo or claimed to have defeated a primal. It's not their fault if the game makes it complicated to incorporate the story of said game into their RP.

 

TL;DR: As a matter of course, I try to include everyone unless there's a very good reason not to do so. Your mileage may vary but I've met some great friends and RPers this way.

[LiadansWhisper]

 

I guess I kind of see your point, but I'll be honest...  While I myself hadn't planned on using those battles in my own character's background, what you (and others) have posted has honestly come across to me as very stand-offish, and exclusionary.  I mean, if one part of the lore in the game (that being that the Primals are being summoned at an increasing rate, and are being repeatedly defeated by both groups of adventurers and larger-scale groups within the Grand Companies) just isn't something you want to deal with, I have to ask what else from the story you're against having people have in their backgrounds?

 

TBH, what these posts do is intimidate players like me from ever even trying to RP with players like you.  Because I can't help but wonder if you wouldn't look down your nose at the story for my character.

 

I posted similar things, I ran RP groups for years in a highly judgmental environment, so I'll take a gander:

 

You can RP however you like. If you want to RP a different fandom altogether within FFXIV, you can. Nobody has any right to judge you for what you like to do, especially as a hobby, if you're not harming anyone.

 

But RP, ultimately, comes down to compatibility. You can be the most open-minded person in the world, but if your style and someone else's don't match, then they don't match, and there is little anyone can do about it.

 

I like planning things in advance and discussing characters extensively. I like having an idea of where my character is headed. I also know that plans are fluid and can change, but I still enjoy them, and I especially enjoy figuring out ways to get two seemingly unrelated characters to interact based on discussion (which by default requires some planning). I RP best with people who like to mix spontaneity with a bit of planning and plenty of discussion.

 

Likewise, someone else may not enjoy planning in advance at all. If I suggest planning, this may annoy them, and make them feel like I'm trying to control the direction their character goes in, for instance. They may prefer to not disclose details about their character at all, and let everything happen naturally and spontaneously. They would RP best with like-minded people.

 

Neither style is superior to the other. They're just different. I probably would not RP with someone who likes full spontaneity only, because it's likely to cause conflict - not because I think they're inferior.

 

If there's a part of lore someone would prefer to be moderate about (or disregard), that's their prerogative. If someone wants to disregard lore altogether, that's their prerogative. If someone wants to consider the main storyline as actually having happened to their character, that's their prerogative.

 

There's no elitism in having standards. There is in pushing them on other people. You don't need to RP with someone if you feel their standards are too different from yours. That's okay. RP is like any other hobby - you like some things, other people like other things, and nobody needs to change what they like to fit the needs of someone else. If you dislike classical music, I shouldn't be making you listen to it. If I dislike rock, you shouldn't be making me listen to it. You can listen to rock and I can listen to classical music and we can both be happy.

 

Sure.

 

But don't tell me that my choice to include parts of the lore present in the game, that fit into what has been stated explicitly in quest text and dialogue, is some how "lore breaking" because you just don't like it.

 

Because that, quite frankly, is absolute bullshit.  And it muddies the waters horribly.

 

Exactly what kind of "standard" is it when you're blatantly ignoring the lore of the game?  Just because you don't like it, and then claiming that anyone who includes said lore in their backgrounds is being a mary sue/overpowered/ridiculous/munchkin, etc?

 

Having "standards," as if someone including the Lore in their background somehow doesn't have standards?  Can't you see how pejorative that is?  How exclusionary, and downright silly?  Wouldn't it actually be the opposite?  That you don't have the standards because you're choosing to ignore the lore in the game itself?

 

Edit:

 

It occurs to me that I'm coming across as really aggressive, and that's not really my intent. I'm a very opinionated person (lol I know, it's such a shock!) and can come across as more accusatory/aggressive than I intend when I actually care about a subject. Please don't take this as me jumping on you and hitting you with a stick. D: I swear to god that's not my intent!

[Lament]

Being hostile to someone because they're new and learning the ropes, because they don't know enough of the lore, or because they RP differently from you - that's elitist. There's no excuse for it. It's a hobby, it's for fun, people are allowed to have their fun if they're not hurting anyone, and it's nobody's business how they go about it.

 

By that same token, nobody should be judged for wanting to stay inside their comfort zone, as long as they're not hurting anyone, or fancy themselves superior for it. They are more than likely missing out on meeting some great people, or finding some amazing RP, yes. But they, too, are allowed to have their fun in whatever way they choose to go about it.

 

I think it's a wonderful mindset, wanting to include everyone as much as possible, and being proactive in that regard. But it's not a mindset for everyone. Asking people who really are not interested to compromise, however, is futile. It's much better for everyone involved if they're left to do their own thing rather than expected to do anything else, really.

 

Now, if there's any kind of superiority complex going on, or if they're patronizing, demeaning or mocking other RPers for doing things differently in any way, then they can go roll in a bed of Cactuars. Flaming Cactuars.

 

Edit: Drat, new reply! I will edit my edit with a reply to the reply... er.

 

Edit of the edit with a reply to the new reply:

 

I didn't tell you that, and nobody should tell you that, either. In fact, I specifically said you can even consider that the main storyline actually happened to your character, which seems to be a big no-no as it would mean your character is really important, has a really rare talent, has met with every important person known to man, and has basically defeated every Big Bad under the sun, which is the quintessential Mary Sue. But that is how the game's story goes, that is the canon, and that is, obviously, entirely possible.

 

With 'standards' in this case I just meant what you, personally, are looking for in RP. Not unlike your standards for finding a significant other. Or your standards for music. Or food. Or clothing. It's probably a terrible choice of wording, but I can't think of anything else... preferences? Personal choices? 'Standards' does seem to carry a rather elitist tone to it, but I'm not actually sure if it always does, it's the word I've seen used in this kind of context. Sorry, my first language is actually Portuguese, some nuances are lost on me. I did not actually mean to imply any particular choice was superior to the other, but I can see how it came across that way. I apologize for offending you, it was definitely not my intention.

 

That said, I also did not call anyone a mary sue, overpowered, ridiculous, munchkin(, etc.) and I mostly glazed over the topic but I didn't see much of it here, either.

 

And I'm also not choosing to ignore the lore in any way, shape, or form. I voted yes in the poll. Of course Primals can be killed ICly, though I would personally not involve my characters unless they had a particular reason to be fighting a Primal (they don't, as of yet, anyway).

 

Even if I was, though, it'd be a personal choice. I don't want to tell others how to RP. They know what's fun to them, I don't.

[Zyrusticae]

I didn't tell you that, and nobody should tell you that, either. In fact, I specifically said you can even consider that the main storyline actually happened to your character, which seems to be a big no-no as it would mean your character is really important, has a really rare talent, has met with every important person known to man, and has basically defeated every Big Bad under the sun, which is the quintessential Mary Sue. But that is how the game's story goes, that is the canon, and that is, obviously, entirely possible.

Yeah, throw me in with the others who would find anyone who takes the story that seriously to be a little, ahem, off-kilter.

 

For whatever reason, 'you are the special one' is just re-used over and over and over again in so many stories across so many games, even when it's completely unreasonable to do so. It's a damn shame, I think, because obviously you can't have everyone being that special or else no one is actually special (I don't think I need to explain how that works, right?)

 

I must agree that a good RPer should only take bits and pieces from the story, as well as use the story to help build up their understanding of the game world and its lore, but actually being the main character is a HUGE no-no. It simply cannot be done. To do so would make your character the very definition of a Mary Sue, and we can't have that, can we?

 

All the same, most players aren't going to do that, and there are degrees here. Is it okay for someone to have claimed to have joined the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, be a member of a Grand Company, have killed Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, and lived to tell about it? Maybe. They could be one of many who have done the same, after all. The problem here is essentially that, well, your character is just a little too competent, eh? Of course, that might not be a problem in and of itself - whether or not a character is interesting is not dependent on being physically vulnerable, after all. They might have an interesting psychology, and what is a character if not an intriguing psychological study case?

 

No, whether or not the character is interesting is not the problem here. The problem is that many of the players who push such competent characters frequently lack the chops to write for such characters, not that they are too powerful (although the latter can be a problem in a case of clashing egos - but this is exactly why I avoid PvP scenarios to begin with). As far as I'm concerned, what's most interesting is simply when a character is well-written within the confines of the lore. If the guy claimed to have killed Garuda is immaterial to me - if the player can pull it off, great! I have no quarrel with them. Sadly, this simply is not the case more often than not (hooray double negatives! *ahem*).

 

So as far as I'm concerned, if you want your character to be special, to have claimed to kill all the primals at least once, fine, but just know that everyone is going to be judging you more harshly, consciously or not, because of it. You could think of it as imposing a challenge upon yourself...

[Rinh Hallani]

So as far as I'm concerned, if you want your character to be special, to have claimed to kill all the primals at least once, fine, but just know that everyone is going to be judging you more harshly, consciously or not, because of it. You could think of it as imposing a challenge upon yourself...

 

Wow, that's a bit harsh. It's part of the game's story! Like I said before, what of new players who just work with the lore that is given them in game and don't see this post on the RPC? Are RPers here really that exclusive? It seems isolationist and elitist to me. Some of the comments here leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[Swift Nightclaw]

I haven't read every detail here, but one thing I will comment on for consideration in regards to taking the main story as canon for your character's story is this:

 

Be cautious as you will eventually have everyone with your identical story, but don't write it off as entirely inappropriate. Creativity can get around most problems, especially depending on how you play the role. And when in doubt, talk it out. Get others' input, even if it's just "I would like to do ____ but don't want to do it in a way that comes off too over the top. Any ideas or suggestions?" Starting a dialogue can help.

 

My night elf hunter on WoW had a background where he wasn't directly involved in any of the main story of the past, but did cross paths with lore characters. I tried to avoid impacting them, but a discussion led me to feel it was still a bit too "Mary Sue" and it all shifted when someone said "Interacting with lore characters feels Mary Sue and honestly I find his mother defying tradition and training him in secret far more intriguing." So I dropped a lot and shifted his backstory to this far more meager and humble story that grew from there. Likewise to experienced RPers, be cautious with your advice. We can come off snobbish and abrasive, even when we're trying to help sometimes. =3

 

"Keep your words sweet...because you may have to eat them."

 

I'm only 17 on my pugilist, so I don't know all the details of the story, especially for the summoner, but I'll use WoW as an example, if I may.

 

My guild raided, when it was current content, Lady Vashj, Kael'thas, Illidan, Kel'thuzad, Malygos, Lich King, and Deathwing.  That's 25 RPers killing 4 of those followed by about 20 (2 raids) killing Lich King and Deathwing.

 

For RP purposes, none of us took on the lore kill for Lady Vashj, Kael'thas, or Illidan.  Some of us took on the lore kill for being involved in Kel'thuzad, though some said they were part of the assault on Naxxramas but not in the chamber for the battle with the lich himself while a handful of us were in the raid, but not involved with it for personal-canon since we were embroiled in the war against Malygos (hard to be actively fighting a war in one place and also actively involved in events of a different war somewhere else at the same time).  And of the 20 or so of us, only one of our guild members was named (by the guild, not by the player) as being present for the actual defeat of the Lich King (and by lore, thus only that one player knew the truth of the events atop the citadel).

 

Despite fighting Deathwing for a few months, it wasn't until a massive group put together a full IC raid on Deathwing in LFR (easy mode makes for easier RP fights!) that we had our canonical assault that stopped him.

 

My point is to pick and choose your main story battles.  If you're a summoner and you're going to incorporate Ifrit & Company (there's a band name for  ya), I highly suggest trying to gather a group to do the full quest/encounter (other than the fight itself of course) in character.  Immerse yourself in the details, the pain, and the struggle of those endeavors and think of the monumental effort it would take and the time you wouldn't be devoting ICly elsewhere in overcoming those tasks.

 

As someone else said, you will come out with a most epic tale of victory in how you were one of the few who accomplished this task and you'll be able to intertwine the tale with the other RP party members who journeyed with you and stood beside you!  I think if you take 5,000 adventurers (server capacity ballpark) and we assume about 4500 of them are the nameless adventurers who are out there helping and keeping problems under control while the RP Coalition are the 500 remaining who are doing great deeds...and then even only a portion of them are taking the main story as their own, you do whittle down more and more towards those who have, by coalition canon, defeated the primals to be quite small.

 

That said, I would also encourage you to consider one other aspect.  With fame and notoriety comes a great deal more problems.  Do you really want to be known for these deeds and thus have every lord with coin expecting to have you do their bidding?  To be asked constantly to save every little place from any little problem?  Or would you wield this power more quietly and with discretion?  I certainly wouldn't walk around town with a neon sign saying "I'm the Slayer of Primals" because that comes with the unspoken statement of

A: What problem may I resolve for you with my great power?

or

B: Come at me, bro.

 

 

Even if you do take Primal slaying as your canon, there are a lot of different ways you can play it afterwards as well.  And if you choose discretion....what happens when your closest allies learn you've been keeping a secret or even lying to them about it?  Things to think about for RP fun.

[K'nahli]

So as far as I'm concerned, if you want your character to be special, to have claimed to kill all the primals at least once, fine, but just know that everyone is going to be judging you more harshly, consciously or not, because of it. You could think of it as imposing a challenge upon yourself...

 

Pretty much this. People only disagree to the idea of following the in-game lore to that extent and assuming the role as the "undefeatable hero" because you are forcing your RP on to basically everyone on the server. Naturally, many people won't want this and will ignore your claims and character altogether because it creates otherwise avoidable inconsistencies.

[Swift Nightclaw]

So as far as I'm concerned, if you want your character to be special, to have claimed to kill all the primals at least once, fine, but just know that everyone is going to be judging you more harshly, consciously or not, because of it. You could think of it as imposing a challenge upon yourself...

 

Wow, that's a bit harsh. It's part of the game's story! Like I said before, what of new players who just work with the lore that is given them in game and don't see this post on the RPC? Are RPers here really that exclusive? It seems isolationist and elitist to me. Some of the comments here leave a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I think rather than "judging you more harshly" I would say a proper way to think of it is this:

 

If you want your character to be special and stand out as an important character like the main hero of the main story quests, that's fine, but be aware that doing so comes with some very big shoes to fill and high expectations of others. You're taking upon yourself the mantle of an inspirational and very notable hero. Others will expect you to impress upon them that you truly are one.

 

If that makes you a bit unsure, good! It's a lofty role to play and not an easy one to pull off without others raising an eyebrow. But fear not, for it can be done!

 

And I will say again...when in doubt, talk it out!

[Zyrusticae]

Wow, that's a bit harsh. It's part of the game's story! Like I said before, what of new players who just work with the lore that is given them in game and don't see this post on the RPC? Are RPers here really that exclusive? It seems isolationist and elitist to me. Some of the comments here leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Let's flip that around.

 

It's part of the game's story, but anyone with a functional brain (and is actually paying attention) will notice that the appearance of Titan is, ahem, a titanic event, with several major players participating in its demise, and the previous attempt ended with a huge number of casualties in order to attain that victory. Garuda is an even bigger event, and

YOU'RE NOT EVEN THE ONE WHO KILLS HER.

 

No one, and I mean NO ONE, should be surprised by the incredulity another character displays when they make the claim that they were instrumental in the (temporary) demise of the above two. If you're going to make such a claim, you're facing an uphill battle. That's just the way it is.

 

Of course, there are the Hard Mode versions as well, and if you're going to RP having killed them, you're going to have to claim an insane level of personal competence on your character's part, in addition to possessing the Echo and the support of similarly competent characters behind him or her.

 

Again, I'm not saying you can't do this, just that I'm likely to hold you to a higher standard (and I must remind you, I don't do this consciously or with a purpose) simply because of how much harder you actually have to work to make that interesting. So what if you killed them? How did you do it, and why should I care? Remember, if many players make the same claim, it will tend to be drowned out by the noise.

 

And this is besides the point that, yeah, there are probably more interesting stories you can write than simply 'I was there' and 'I did this'. Focus on things that define your character and you're generally going to see better results than if you simply take aspects whole-hog from the story. It's just better for everyone involved, really.