MizoreYukii Posted December 23, 2013 Share #1 Posted December 23, 2013 Hello everyone! So I've run into a little problem creating my character, and it's that I don't know the miqo'te lore very well! Before I can actually finish her background and everything (I have yet to make a wiki page for her) I need some pointers on the lore. From what I've picked up on so far I've taken what I can and applied it to her background, but it's not enough at the moment. I'm afraid that if I just type in "Miqo'te lore" in Google I might have stuff popup that isn't all that truthful or not relevant. But if anyone has some useful websites, tips, or even time to write up something is greatly appreciated. I'm especially interested to hear how a crossbreed of the Seekers and the Keepers would be interacted with by other miqo'te, as mine is (if that's even possible?). Edit: That's her in the picture by the way. Which group does she seem to belong to more (I clearly made her with the Keeper selections, but I wish we could mix the breeds)? I plan on having her raised with the Keepers due to her dad, with her mother being a Seeker. Link to comment
Jomoru Posted December 23, 2013 Share #2 Posted December 23, 2013 Well the only crossbreeds we have in game seem to have tribal letters so it would seem at least Seekers have little problem. Of course those are city bound Seekers who are likely much more liberal than their country cousins Link to comment
BroodingFicus Posted December 23, 2013 Share #3 Posted December 23, 2013 There is a lot of diversity out there as far as the Miqo'te go. Aside from just the Keepers and Seekers themselves, I've seen a lot of rp that shows different groups/families/tribes holding different sets of traditions that are mostly just interwoven with the basic idea of the race. We don't really know a whole lot about the individual nuances (at least that I've found anywhere official as of yet) though the two societies do seem to have some key differences. This is purely based on what I've seen/read/inferred so if anyone has something to add/correct do so please. Keepers: Seem to be more centralized around the females, in the sense that they hold the power and operate on a matriarchal society. So the oldest/wisest female/females call the shots rather than the strongest male. Just based on what official words is out there and the fact that you don't see very many keeper npcs, they seem much more illusive and tend to operate in smaller, traveling groups or families. They don't mingle much with the other races and there are no Keeper settlements like the one in the desert for Seekers. They also seem to share the Duskwight quality of being looked up on in a negative light due to their nocturnal nature. I.E, assumed to be poachers etc. Seekers: Obviously they operate more around the Nunh, who can be challenged by other males for breeding rights. They seem more like lions in truth, less solitary and with the females hunting and providing for the 'family'. The Nunh, once he has his position, is naturally the pride leader and thereby the only one who bears offspring with the females. As many as possible from my understanding. The ability to challenge him allows for stronger bloodlines to continue since it is likely not all young survive the harsh Miqo'te lifestyle. Tia's (any male who isn't the Nunh) can branch off to try to form their own pride/tribe but they need females and it doesn't seem like it would happen often. As for the half breed, my character Orum is in a similar state. The two sides do have some distinct traits that may make such noticeable. Seekers have more cat like slits vs the keepers larger pupils. Keepers have longer canines which actually shows up in most emotes etc. As with most prejudices, I imagine it probably isn't a race wide blanket. At least thus far I haven't seen any in game signs of difficulties between the two factions so I guess we'll have to wait and see. I've been running under the assumption it can vary by family/tribes. Orums keeper family ordered him abandoned but maybe another would simply raise him in the tradition of their own people. I suppose that it could be seen as a genetic disadvantage. For example, Keeper pupils are wider to help with the fact that they are largely nocturnal so maybe a mix may end up with less impressive night vision, thereby not being as efficient a hunter. Depending on if the mother or father is which faction, naming can be tricky. With a Keeper mother, Orum's official Miqo'te name ends up being J'orum'sae Pahjin. Bit of a mouthful if he used it regularly. There are a lot of possibilities out there and quite a bit of freedom to maneuver. Well...I wrote more than I meant to but I hope something helps. I'm sure you've already looked at the stuff below but just in case. Good luck out there. -The Ficus Naming Conventions Wiki Link to comment
Ildur Posted December 23, 2013 Share #4 Posted December 23, 2013 There was some dev post in the official lore forums that said that crossbreeds between the clans are possible (and there was some NPC with a Keeper look but Seeker name or the other way around). Because of that, we can assume that crossbreeds are possible and that they take on the looks of whichever clan...which means that it will be impossible to tell a crossbreed apart from their 'pure' counterparts unless she's named differently (like a Sun Seeker looking Miqo'te with a Keeper name, or vice versa). Unless your character goes out of her way to tell people that she is a crossbreed, nobody will notice. And if they do, well, I don't think anyone is going to do more than raise an eyebrow before continuing interactions normally. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted December 23, 2013 Share #5 Posted December 23, 2013 Here's the dev post on cross-breeds, using the specific example of F'lhaminn. The short version is that mixing and matching of features between clans happens for a variety of reasons (genetic anomaly, crossbreeding, etc.). IMO, as Ildur said, unless your character makes a point of making it known, it's not something that's likely to come up. That said, some miqo'te are going to take greater issue with that than others IC, so just bear that in mind if your character does decide to make it common knowledge. I've got a summarized list of dev lore posts on miqo'te on the Mysterium forums. The devs have focused their lore spotlight on the tribal Seekers of the Sun, mostly, but one also has to consider that a significant number of miqo'te are non-tribal, having grown up in and around the city-states. So, you've got a lot of wiggle room for your RP within a few boundaries set by the devs. Link to comment
MizoreYukii Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted December 23, 2013 Ohhh! This is a big help. Thanks everyone! I have been a little clueless with people throwing the word "Nunh" around, but then I realized it's just a word for pimp basically. I'm glad to finally know what exactly they did and which group they were from. I kind of want her background to be noticeable, so I'll have to take a look at the naming conventions and go from there, but there's not much I can do right now as their isn't a way to change your name without deleting your character. Thankfully I still have the fantasia if I need it for altering her looks. Link to comment
Jana Posted December 23, 2013 Share #7 Posted December 23, 2013 In addition to F'lhaminn, one of the reporters from the Lightning Returns storyline has a Seeker appearance, but a Keeper name. Link to comment
Michikyou Posted December 23, 2013 Share #8 Posted December 23, 2013 Ohhh! This is a big help. Thanks everyone! I have been a little clueless with people throwing the word "Nunh" around, but then I realized it's just a word for pimp basically. I'm glad to finally know what exactly they did and which group they were from. I kind of want her background to be noticeable, so I'll have to take a look at the naming conventions and go from there, but there's not much I can do right now as their isn't a way to change your name without deleting your character. Thankfully I still have the fantasia if I need it for altering her looks. One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Nunh's are just a term used for a man who essentially has 'multiple wives'. With the gender ratios - and how it is lorely portrayed in game - it is not uncommon for Nunh's to even exist. It has happened amoung human culture before where men are allowed more wives than not just to keep strong blood and a healthy population booming. For if a people go extinct there is no culture. If you visit the U' clan in the story and listen to some of the NPC dialogue, all bar one of the huntresses respect the Nunh. They think he is powerful and worthy of their duties. They have ceremonial names for 'mating', they dont need to love him to forfill their duty. Link to comment
Jomoru Posted December 23, 2013 Share #9 Posted December 23, 2013 Ohhh! This is a big help. Thanks everyone! I have been a little clueless with people throwing the word "Nunh" around, but then I realized it's just a word for pimp basically. I'm glad to finally know what exactly they did and which group they were from. I kind of want her background to be noticeable, so I'll have to take a look at the naming conventions and go from there, but there's not much I can do right now as their isn't a way to change your name without deleting your character. Thankfully I still have the fantasia if I need it for altering her looks. One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Nunh's are just a term used for a man who essentially has 'multiple wives'. With the gender ratios - and how it is lorely portrayed in game - it is not uncommon for Nunh's to even exist. It has happened amoung human culture before where men are allowed more wives than not just to keep strong blood and a healthy population booming. For if a people go extinct there is no culture. If you visit the U' clan in the story and listen to some of the NPC dialogue, all bar one of the huntresses respect the Nunh. They think he is powerful and worthy of their duties. They have ceremonial names for 'mating', they dont need to love him to forfill their duty. That's just one tribe. I can easily see Nunhs being given culturally sanctioned rape options "For the good of the Tribe". Link to comment
Maveree Posted December 23, 2013 Share #10 Posted December 23, 2013 Ohhh! This is a big help. Thanks everyone! I have been a little clueless with people throwing the word "Nunh" around, but then I realized it's just a word for pimp basically. I'm glad to finally know what exactly they did and which group they were from. I kind of want her background to be noticeable, so I'll have to take a look at the naming conventions and go from there, but there's not much I can do right now as their isn't a way to change your name without deleting your character. Thankfully I still have the fantasia if I need it for altering her looks. One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Nunh's are just a term used for a man who essentially has 'multiple wives'. With the gender ratios - and how it is lorely portrayed in game - it is not uncommon for Nunh's to even exist. It has happened amoung human culture before where men are allowed more wives than not just to keep strong blood and a healthy population booming. For if a people go extinct there is no culture. If you visit the U' clan in the story and listen to some of the NPC dialogue, all bar one of the huntresses respect the Nunh. They think he is powerful and worthy of their duties. They have ceremonial names for 'mating', they dont need to love him to forfill their duty. From what I gathered in this lore resource regarding miqo'te names, the Nuhns earn their title from being one of the strongest of the males. So it makes sense for the huntresses to respect them in such a way! Link to comment
Michikyou Posted December 23, 2013 Share #11 Posted December 23, 2013 I don't actually think it is rape if all the participants are willing. The Nunhs do ot FORCE them to breed, they do so because they want to. Link to comment
Jomoru Posted December 23, 2013 Share #12 Posted December 23, 2013 I don't actually think it is rape if all the participants are willing. The Nunhs do ot FORCE them to breed, they do so because they want to. No, in the U Tribe that is true. The U Tribe has a very worldy Nunh. There are many other ways it could spiral out. I am not saying every tribe could or shoudl have these issues but with 26 groups the size of say the cherokee nation saying that none anywhere become corrupt and abusive seems to streach credability. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted December 23, 2013 Share #13 Posted December 23, 2013 I don't actually think it is rape if all the participants are willing. The Nunhs do ot FORCE them to breed, they do so because they want to. There's been a lot of discussion on this topic, honestly. The devs have only stated that the nunh of a territory rarely holds a leadership position, and that the nunh is the only one who's socially permitted to sire children. Beyond that, there's only that one branch of the U tribe in game to work from, and even they seem to deviate from the lore post. IMO, then, there's a lot of room for RPers to write a wide variety of lore-compatible tribal backstories. Link to comment
N'taeyl Posted December 23, 2013 Share #14 Posted December 23, 2013 One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Thank you. I am so tired of seeing people hate nunh for being a man whore. I had only a fleeting moment of dislike when I first heard about them, but it really is JUST a social structure. And, they rarely lead. He's just a buff guy that makes babies, healthy good babies. Having said that though, sure there's room for a tribe to go off the wall and establish some extreme order. Ultimately those won't last (I would think) but it's there if you want your tribe to be crazy. But to stereotype every nunh as some male womanizer is ridiculous. Link to comment
MizoreYukii Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted December 23, 2013 Whoops. Double post. Link to comment
MizoreYukii Posted December 23, 2013 Author Share #16 Posted December 23, 2013 Ohhh! This is a big help. Thanks everyone! I have been a little clueless with people throwing the word "Nunh" around, but then I realized it's just a word for pimp basically. I'm glad to finally know what exactly they did and which group they were from. I kind of want her background to be noticeable, so I'll have to take a look at the naming conventions and go from there, but there's not much I can do right now as their isn't a way to change your name without deleting your character. Thankfully I still have the fantasia if I need it for altering her looks. One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Nunh's are just a term used for a man who essentially has 'multiple wives'. With the gender ratios - and how it is lorely portrayed in game - it is not uncommon for Nunh's to even exist. It has happened amoung human culture before where men are allowed more wives than not just to keep strong blood and a healthy population booming. For if a people go extinct there is no culture. If you visit the U' clan in the story and listen to some of the NPC dialogue, all bar one of the huntresses respect the Nunh. They think he is powerful and worthy of their duties. They have ceremonial names for 'mating', they dont need to love him to forfill their duty. Ehh...Sorry...Was just being funny....I knew the basic purpose of his position, and your post helped me understand it a bit more, but still....Tough crowd. :dazed: Didn't mean for anyone to get riled up over a silly comment. Thanks though. Link to comment
N'taeyl Posted December 23, 2013 Share #17 Posted December 23, 2013 Ehh...Sorry...Was just being funny....I knew the basic purpose of his position, and your post helped me understand it a bit more, but still....Tough crowd. :dazed: Didn't mean for anyone to get riled up over a silly comment. Thanks though. For the record, I just wanted to throw my thought out there. Nothing is sacred from the sense of good humor. I really hope we get to see more NPC tribes soon, the world feels so small as it is. And for our first and only tribe to be an odd one out is...strange. Would also be nice to see some small keeper gatherings, even though they aren't super social. Link to comment
Michikyou Posted December 23, 2013 Share #18 Posted December 23, 2013 One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Thank you. I am so tired of seeing people hate nunh for being a man whore. I had only a fleeting moment of dislike when I first heard about them, but it really is JUST a social structure. And, they rarely lead. He's just a buff guy that makes babies, healthy good babies. Having said that though, sure there's room for a tribe to go off the wall and establish some extreme order. Ultimately those won't last (I would think) but it's there if you want your tribe to be crazy. But to stereotype every nunh as some male womanizer is ridiculous. Its fine, it irks me when it crosses through to peoples roleplay though and then they make silly comments as such. Miqo'te are usually free to hold their affections to others - Its no more abnormal than many nomadic tribes. Link to comment
K'nahli Posted December 23, 2013 Share #19 Posted December 23, 2013 One. A Nunh is not a pimp. Please. Roleplayers need to get this concept of Nunhs being womanizers out of their heads. That is not how the society is supposed to be. In a comical way - yes, I suppsoe so but in a socio-anthropolocial way? No. Thank you. As was said, joking about it is fine and all but it seems to be a widely believed 'fact' that nuhns are living some life of luxury and indulge in the position only for the job description. Lets not forget that there are only one-to-a-few nuhns as opposed to many females. If there was something going on that the females didn't like then I highly doubt they'd just endure such a thing. 'Tribal' doesn't exactly equate to 'savage'. 1 Link to comment
Rinh Hallani Posted December 23, 2013 Share #20 Posted December 23, 2013 Lets not forget that there are only one-to-a-few nuhns as opposed to many females. If there was something going on that the females didn't like then I highly doubt they'd just endure such a thing. 'Tribal' doesn't exactly equate to 'savage'. Especially as the women are supposed to be strong hunters themselves so I imagine they'd all just gang up and beat the hell out of a Nuhn if he tried anything funny. /shrug Link to comment
Seriphyn Posted December 23, 2013 Share #21 Posted December 23, 2013 Eh, I'm pretty confident it is perfectly viable in-character to dismiss Seeker tribal males as misogynistic womanizers with backwards social practices, ESPECIALLY considering that all three leaders of the city-states are female (Kan-E-Senna, the Limsa Chief Admiral, and Sultana Nanamo Ul Namo). "Wait, you're telling me that Seeker women can't be the leaders?" Even OOC, one could call it a "social structure that has been constructed over time"...but that's exactly the same as male-dominated sectors of Western culture (pop media and government primarily). And we accuse that of misogyny all the time. Point is, whether or not Seeker culture is misogynistic "in reality", there is plenty of material to identify it as such both IC and OOC (and plenty of material to not identify it as such). And since these words are so subjective, there isn't really one truth, but multiple. Link to comment
Naunet Posted December 23, 2013 Share #22 Posted December 23, 2013 There's been a lot of discussion on this topic, honestly. The devs have only stated that the nunh of a territory rarely holds a leadership position, and that the nunh is the only one who's socially permitted to sire children. Beyond that, there's only that one branch of the U tribe in game to work from, and even they seem to deviate from the lore post. IMO, then, there's a lot of room for RPers to write a wide variety of lore-compatible tribal backstories. As the forums have had this debate countless times in the past, I'm just gonna quote FreelanceWizard here with a little bit of added emphasis to counter what appears to be a misconception on the part of some individuals in this thread. There. All done! *wonders when people talking Seeker lore will ever discuss more than Nunh stuff* Link to comment
Seriphyn Posted December 23, 2013 Share #23 Posted December 23, 2013 Seems like appropriate artistic license to avoid tugging at Out-of-Character sensitivities. Even then though..."male gets all ze womens" still seems shady to me. EDIT: What I mean is, shades of grey here. There are elements of it across FFXIV, so Seekers shouldn't be excluded from it IMO. Link to comment
Naunet Posted December 23, 2013 Share #24 Posted December 23, 2013 "male gets all ze womens" still seems shady to me. It only seems shady to you because of your cultural biases. It might seem shady to other Eorzean races who are more explicitly monogamous. It's pretty clear that Seeker culture is one of polyamoury, however, and feeling affection towards more than one person is likely not unusual (probably even the norm). Now, to step away from this tired topic, one of favorite things about miqo'te lore is how wonderfully flexible and full of opportunity it is. I've had an absolute blast collaborating with the other members of the K tribe to gradually develop a fully-fledged society around the initial, vague concept of an extremely isolated, nomadic desert tribe. I'm in love with how we've woven Azeyma worship into their day-to-day practices and cornerstone rituals. I'm having a blast crafting a special brand of healing medicine developed by their shaman, though I've only gotten to showcase glimpses of it in RP so far. We've taken into account a variety of societal roles and picked out some key defining moments, and there's been a lot of outside research into how real life cultures survive in the extremely harsh environment that the Sagolii offers. And the greatest part is anyone can do this with their Seeker's tribe! Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted December 23, 2013 Share #25 Posted December 23, 2013 Even then though..."male gets all ze womens" still seems shady to me. EDIT: What I mean is, shades of grey here. There are elements of it across FFXIV, so Seekers shouldn't be excluded from it IMO. One of the nice things about the tribal Seeker lore being ill defined except for some specific bright lines is that you can turn the "dark dial" for your character background all the way from "super-squicky" to "loving familial group" without running afoul of the extant lore. So, if you want to go shady for your character, you can do that. If you'd prefer not to, you can do that, too. All that said, I personally feel that the "norm" is a patriarchal society where the nunh is akin to a celebrity and the ladies want to share a bed with him. After all, he is the strongest, most bad-ass man in the tribe, proved such through battle, and tribal Seeker society seems to be highly driven towards striving for and celebrating excellence. A strong female and the strongest male should produce strong children well-equipped to survive in a harsh world, or so the thinking goes. However, that's all purely conjecture on my part. All we actually know is that the nunh is the only one societally allowed to sire children in a territory, and that he doesn't typically do that by being the territory's leader. How exactly that works is up to players to decide for their particular tribal territory based on the needs of their backstory. 1 Link to comment
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