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Miqo'te Lore, Please!


MizoreYukii

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I can tell the community here is extremely protective of the Miqo'te race and is averse to discussing potential points of criticism, even despite FreelanceWizard's remark about how there can be a 'dark dial' that deviates between something positive and negative. A shame, but, harmony is better for the community I think.

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I can tell you are extremely protective of your opinions about the Miqo'te race and are averse to discussing potential points of criticism and unable to articulate proper counterarguments to those criticisms. A shame, but leaving the discussion is better for the you, I think.

 

Jokes aside, I keep my posture that Sunseeker culture is based on a "sexy catgirl race" trope. Squee is aware of the fetish and capitalized on it in the game's lore. That's why they made them polygamous and the reason there is an oversexualization of Miqo'te in Ul'dah and Costa del Sol.

It's a shame Squee shot itself in the foot and went against its own lore with the U tribe and their nunh, but that might be the exception and not the rule. Sunseeker society might or might not be patriarchal: you might think that a man 'getting all ze women' is a sign of patriarchy, but that doesn't have to be the case. Miqo'te males are fewer in number by biologic bias, so keeping a stable population might need that kind of cultural norm depending on the math. You could even have women telling the nunh with whom to have children instead of the nunh being the one picking people. Then suddenly what you might end up having is the objectification of men.

But the lore is sketchy at best, so as Freelance said, you can turn the dial to whatever side you want.

 

Of course, what you can argue is that the devs designed the Miqo'te lore the way they did because they are a bunch of misogynistic blokes, but then that isn't discussing the lore; it's discussing the author.

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From an out-of-universe perspective: Seeker gender politics are kind of messed up from what we've seen of them, and things are skewed in favor of dude Seekers. It's also what we're given to work with in terms of canon lore. The one in-game example of a Nunh is decidedly the leader of his tribe politically and culturally, and though his position isn't secure and has as much to do with respect from his followers as it does with his having defeated the previous Nunh, he's still living in what appears to be for all intents and purposes a society where the Nunh is the leader and the only ones who have a shot at being the leader are the Tias.

 

In-character, we've got complete freedom to either accept or challenge the norms of Seeker (and Keeper) society, and that'd probably be pretty interesting. There's a lot of room for conflict between the matriarchal Keepers and the patriarchal Seekers, considering most raised in the respective societies would have an opinion about which group is in the right in terms of how things are run. It'd be especially interesting for characters who come from a Seeker parent and a Keeper parent! For that matter, are there Miqo'te who defect from their tribe to live with the other one, rather than take to the city and abandon traditional societal norms? Seeker women who want a shot at authority and seek to join up with Keeper clans, or Keeper men who take up the 'Tia' name and try to challenge a Nunh so they can be in charge of their own tribe?

 

And like has been said, there is a lot of space to play Nunhs in various ways. U'odh is the one canon example, and he's very much a standard tribal patriarch figure. That's an option. If you feel inclined, you could play a Nunh who took his position because he wants to have kids, or because he wants an excuse to sleep around and flaunt it to others. You could play a Nunh who doesn't care at all for the breeding bit of his role, and just wants to improve things for his tribe by being a good leader- or even views siring children as a distasteful duty, rather than a benefit of being a Nunh. You could play a Nunh from a Seeker tribe where the women hold the real power, and the Nunh is just the fellow they decided was the best option to have kids with when the time comes. You can play it as creepy or non-creepy as you want to, in the end. It's just important to keep in mind that flagging yourself in such a position is going to invite opinions, and the way you RP a Nunh is going to invite opinions as well. If you play a womanizer or a scumbag Nunh, people will react like they typically do to figures of authority who are scumbags or womanizers. There are going to be people who are critical of the entire system on which Seeker society operates. It's not your job to convince them that Seeker society is awesome and great and they should love it, but you can try if you feel compelled. Conflict breeds interesting RP.

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 For that matter, are there Miqo'te who defect from their tribe to live with the other one, rather than take to the city and abandon traditional societal norms? Seeker women who want a shot at authority and seek to join up with Keeper clans, or Keeper men who take up the 'Tia' name and try to challenge a Nunh so they can be in charge of their own tribe?

I don't know if there's such an example between the npcs, but as far as pcs go, I met a female Seeker who was joining her Keeper mate's tribe and changing her name, because she despised her tribe and their uses while feeling at home between Keepers.

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There's been a lot of discussion on this topic, honestly. The devs have only stated that the nunh of a territory rarely holds a leadership position, and that the nunh is the only one who's socially permitted to sire children. Beyond that, there's only that one branch of the U tribe in game to work from, and even they seem to deviate from the lore post. IMO, then, there's a lot of room for RPers to write a wide variety of lore-compatible tribal backstories.

 

As the forums have had this debate countless times in the past, I'm just gonna quote FreelanceWizard here with a little bit of added emphasis to counter what appears to be a misconception on the part of some individuals in this thread. There. All done!

 

*wonders when people talking Seeker lore will ever discuss more than Nunh stuff*

 

 

You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic. Powers that can easily be abused.

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From an out-of-universe perspective: Seeker gender politics are kind of messed up from what we've seen of them, and things are skewed in favor of dude Seekers. It's also what we're given to work with in terms of canon lore. The one in-game example of a Nunh is decidedly the leader of his tribe politically and culturally, and though his position isn't secure and has as much to do with respect from his followers as it does with his having defeated the previous Nunh, he's still living in what appears to be for all intents and purposes a society where the Nunh is the leader and the only ones who have a shot at being the leader are the Tias.

 

In-character, we've got complete freedom to either accept or challenge the norms of Seeker (and Keeper) society, and that'd probably be pretty interesting. There's a lot of room for conflict between the matriarchal Keepers and the patriarchal Seekers, considering most raised in the respective societies would have an opinion about which group is in the right in terms of how things are run. It'd be especially interesting for characters who come from a Seeker parent and a Keeper parent! For that matter, are there Miqo'te who defect from their tribe to live with the other one, rather than take to the city and abandon traditional societal norms? Seeker women who want a shot at authority and seek to join up with Keeper clans, or Keeper men who take up the 'Tia' name and try to challenge a Nunh so they can be in charge of their own tribe?

 

And like has been said, there is a lot of space to play Nunhs in various ways. U'odh is the one canon example, and he's very much a standard tribal patriarch figure. That's an option. If you feel inclined, you could play a Nunh who took his position because he wants to have kids, or because he wants an excuse to sleep around and flaunt it to others. You could play a Nunh who doesn't care at all for the breeding bit of his role, and just wants to improve things for his tribe by being a good leader- or even views siring children as a distasteful duty, rather than a benefit of being a Nunh. You could play a Nunh from a Seeker tribe where the women hold the real power, and the Nunh is just the fellow they decided was the best option to have kids with when the time comes. You can play it as creepy or non-creepy as you want to, in the end. It's just important to keep in mind that flagging yourself in such a position is going to invite opinions, and the way you RP a Nunh is going to invite opinions as well. If you play a womanizer or a scumbag Nunh, people will react like they typically do to figures of authority who are scumbags or womanizers. There are going to be people who are critical of the entire system on which Seeker society operates. It's not your job to convince them that Seeker society is awesome and great and they should love it, but you can try if you feel compelled. Conflict breeds interesting RP.

 

This is how you post.

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You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

 

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

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You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

 

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

 

I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation. 

 

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

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Eh......I didn't meant to start a debate of over the lore.....Anyways...

 

I understood that a Nunh sired children with many women, but I didn't know why they were required to. A simple "strong male chosen by the females to breed strong children" is better than a whack over the head for being new to the lore. This is why I asked in the first place. I wasn't going to talk about Miqo'tes and the lore ICly until I actually knew what made each tribe different, besides what was given at character creation. I didn't assume that they whored around, but everyone in chat and at RP sessions made it seem so. That doesn't mean I went as far as to believe it and act like it's the norm. :(

 

And please, if you're so tired of it, take the effort to tell people through your FC's, LS's, and RP sessions, and don't take your frustration out on a person who even bothered to ask about the lore in the first place! I say a joke and suddenly it's like I claimed to steal everyone's cookies. :frustrated:

 

Regardless, thank you for the input and the links. I can finally start my background and her reason for even existing now. :roll:

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I understood that a Nunh sired children with many women, but I didn't know why they were required to. A simple "strong male chosen by the females to breed strong children" (...)

 

You may want to be careful with that, though. Per the devs, the women of a territory have no (direct) say in the nunh of an existing territory. A tia becomes nunh by challenging the existing nunh; the females of the tribe aren't involved in that process (at least in the "normal" tribe structure described by the devs). Why and how that system works and to what extent women of a territory actually manipulate the process is a grey area in lore and one in which players can write what works best for their story. However, per the lore, the nunh isn't chosen by the females. He's chosen by losing a battle to a challenging tia.

 

By the by, there are two alternative ways to become nunh where the acceptance of women is directly relevant: acquiring new territory and branching off into a new tribe. Acquiring new territory is relatively common and involves a tia seizing an area of land. If he can hold it, then the tribe will make him nunh of that area and women will join him. That's the socially accepted way to become a nunh without challenging an existing one. Branching off into a new tribe is rare because, per the devs, women will rarely follow a nunh who doesn't "play by the rules," and at any rate, it makes all those involved outcasts.

 

To the rest of your post, miqo'te lore can be pretty polarizing OOC for a number of reasons (the large grey areas, the large number of miqo'te characters, the use of miqo'te culture by some players to attempt to force certain types of RP on people, etc.), so I don't think anyone was intending to hit you on the head for being new to it. It's just a topic that brings out some pretty strong points of view.

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I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

 

This is correct. I Just wanted people who are new, and possibly reading the thread that Nunhs are not pimps at all. They do not force any female to do as they wish. The structure of the soceity is all based off of favour. I get irritated because people cannot put aside their own personal cultural views to even accept the terms of FFXIV offical lore. So they slander it and insult those who do roleplay it as it was written.

 

yes - a lot is left in the dark so a lot of common courtesy head cannon needs to be involved but if we look at human socities especially those of the pacific islands we can find similar cultural structures. Its not an alien society - people need to stop treating it as something vile because it clearly isn't.

 

TLDR version:

Yo dawg, go take a Anthropology 101 paper! Human variety! cultural difference, Yo, peace G!

 

Edit:

Also, miqo'te would go extinct without this social structure as the ratio to males and females is VERY off. I think it is 1:15, if I counted the NPCs in forgotten springs correctly.

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You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

 

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

 

I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation. 

 

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

 

I don't understand your point. Assuming it was a situation where the tribe only had one nuhn(which wouldn't be entirely ideal I imagine), then even if he suddenly got it in his head that he can do whatever he wanted because he has an important role, it doesn't change the fact that he can just as easily be replaced by someone less erratic and selfish. He's doing himself no favours by testing his luck and behaving however he wants. I don't see why a nuhn would be exempt from disciplinary action executed by the tribe leaders. Last thing he'd want is to get himself exiled for even killed just because he was feeling a little arrogant.

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I don't think anyone's taking whacks at you, Mizore. I think largely the issue is that Miqo'te obviously have a pretty distinct culture from the rest of Eorzea, but there is very little canon information about what that culture is outside of basic family structure.

 

This is correct. I Just wanted people who are new, and possibly reading the thread that Nunhs are not pimps at all. They do not force any female to do as they wish. The structure of the soceity is all based off of favour. I get irritated because people cannot put aside their own personal cultural views to even accept the terms of FFXIV offical lore. So they slander it and insult those who do roleplay it as it was written.

 

yes - a lot is left in the dark so a lot of common courtesy head cannon needs to be involved but if we look at human socities especially those of the pacific islands we can find similar cultural structures. Its not an alien society - people need to stop treating it as something vile because it clearly isn't.

 

TLDR version:

Yo dawg, go take a Anthropology 101 paper! Human variety! cultural difference, Yo, peace G!

 

I wasn't attempting to slander the culture. I know these cultures exist outside of modern society, and I never said it was vile. Like I said, I made a joke about it as everyone else has been believing they were pimps all along. I thought it was funny. *Shrugs*

 

Either way, if you want to correct this idea going around you might want to sticky a thread and talk to Gilgamesh players, as I've seen nothing but jokes (at least I hope they are...) on that server since I started playing. Anyone new doesn't automatically know of this forum's existence, and when everyone starts acting like Miqo'tes are having orgies all day, they get the wrong impression and won't learn the truth until later, like now. And as far as I can tell, there are far more Balmung players going on here than Gilgamesh (a lot of people didn't know of the ball yesterday). Soooo....yeah...Lack of communication going on here.... :/

 

Anyways, it's past us. And thanks FreelanceWizard for more insight on the Nunhs. I enjoy my character so far, and I really want to develop her properly for RP. Sadly, I don't know what to do with her name since we can't change names yet, and at the same time I don't want to get rid of it. I'm not sure what to do....I was originally thinking that her name could be this way do to her parents combining different factors, like the Mi being a broad representation of both types of Miqo'te.

 

Edit: Had the wrong person listed. xD

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Edit:

Also, miqo'te would go extinct without this social structure as the ratio to males and females is VERY off. I think it is 1:15, if I counted the NPCs in forgotten springs correctly.

 

This I didn't know. How would they keep the gene pool from lacking diversity then? Unless they choose a male for whenever they need a new generation? That or I'm missing something. Sorry if this post is messed up, I can't figure out how to work the forums for the life of me. >_<

 

Edit: Reply if you guys want. I'm heading into game. Be back later ^-^

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Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

 

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

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Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

 

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

 

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. :blush: The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

 

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

 

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

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Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

 

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

 

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. :blush: The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

 

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

 

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

 

The debate would have happened either way, I'm sure. No need to worry yourself over it ^^ ;  People are just afraid to let those opinions slip by for the previously mentioned reasons(I say opinion since it was unclear if you were joking... as is the case with sensitive topics, ahah).

 

In any case, there's no glorified lore that you must adhere to. You don't need to adhere to any for that matter. If you choose a Seeker/Keeper name though then just be sure to find some connection as to why your character followed tribal naming conventions and you're sorted. Anything else is totally up to you.

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Your joke was formed under a concept that many people believe - or at least want to believe. Any debates or criticisms weren't targeted at you but rather the idea that you jabbed at because its a controversial topic that has appeared many times before. A lot of people have these misguided conceptions of the race as a whole and for those of us who play miqo'te, it feels almost insulting. Implying that the Seeker culture is something created under an idea of promiscuity and with erotic intentions is just wrong on so many levels and it makes the whole culture out to be something so grossly shallow and primal when its not.

 

In any case, to reiterate, none of this was targeted at you. No-one meant any offence... same as you meant none toward Sunseekers either.

 

I see it now, but it certainly felt that way. :blush: The purpose of my asking for lore is to avoid any misleading information by word of mouth, as well as a chance to finally create my character, as I've felt I've hit a wall with her until I could gather more information.

 

But I can see how my joke started the debate. I haven't been on the forums for months as I always forgot to get on, and I haven't been focusing on playing FF until now, but I bet if I had gotten on I would have known about the debate and either worded the joke better or avoid it altogether. >_< I just wanted to understand the race better since they don't provide much in game or on the main website. That, or I missed it somehow?

 

Either way, the lore and insight in this thread will help me create my character better. I'm new to RP and FF in general, so I want to make her the best way I can without looking like an idiot. Or insulting anyone. o_o

 

The debate would have happened either way, I'm sure. No need to worry yourself over it ^^ ;  People are just afraid to let those opinions slip by for the previously mentioned reasons(I say opinion since it was unclear if you were joking... as is the case with sensitive topics, ahah).

 

In any case, there's no glorified lore that you must adhere to. You don't need to adhere to any for that matter. If you choose a Seeker/Keeper name though then just be sure to find some connection as to why your character followed tribal naming conventions and you're sorted. Anything else is totally up to you.

 

Most likely....xD And it wasn't an opinion. I knew I didn't word what I said properly, but I thought it didn't matter. But it most certainly was a joke at the thought of the cats being this way, as people constantly talk about it as if it's true. I never knew what to believe, so went with the flow, but I did think it was slightly amusing whenever it was brought up.

 

Alright, thanks for the reply! I'll surely think of something for her name, eventually at least.

 

Alright, now I head to game. Thankies everyone. o3o

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And it wasn't an opinion. I knew I didn't word what I said properly, but I thought it didn't matter.

 

I know it wasn't ;;  People were just staying on the safe side so that in case you actually were serious, that mindset wasn't encouraged, haha.

 

Okay I really must run to sleep now..

 

 

*collapses*

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You cna quote it all you want, it won't change the distinct power structures around that sexual dynamic.

 

Nor does it change what has been explicitly stated by the devs. You folk need to stop letting your own cultural biases color your understanding of a society that is clearly not based around monogamy. It's highly disingenuous to distinguish Keeper and Seeker cultures by labeling them matriarchal vs. patriarchal, especially when the former culture is being OOCly misunderstood due to looking at it through the lens of monogamy-bias and rather inaccurate and misapplied comparisons to lion tribes.

 

I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation. 

 

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

 

I don't understand your point. Assuming it was a situation where the tribe only had one nuhn(which wouldn't be entirely ideal I imagine), then even if he suddenly got it in his head that he can do whatever he wanted because he has an important role, it doesn't change the fact that he can just as easily be replaced by someone less erratic and selfish. He's doing himself no favours by testing his luck and behaving however he wants. I don't see why a nuhn would be exempt from disciplinary action executed by the tribe leaders. Last thing he'd want is to get himself exiled for even killed just because he was feeling a little arrogant.

 

 

You have some very odd concepts of how power works. You seem to assume that a tribal leader would have a level of absolute power that would make the Kings of France jealous.

 

You also seem to think these people who've held onto their traditions are going to drop them casually because someone is a dick.

 

So lets back up. The Nunh is a recognized position. It may not be chief, or Priestess or Godking or whatever they want to call the head of their grouping, but said person has real politicla power by dint of having a position.

 

Can the chief punish him for being a dick? Potentially but if no one can challenge him they have to throw away their traditions in doing so.

 

Could the chief turn a blind eye to abuses of power because the chief doesn't care? Also possible.

 

Could their society decide even if a woman has no desire for sex with him force them because that's "For the good of the tribe"

 

Could the biggest strongest Miqote male in a hunting ground be forced into a role he has no desire for because "its for the good of my people?"2

 

There's more than enough places in lore for abuses of power to occur, its not like Miqote are described as being super holier than thou tolerant types who value the freedom of others above all.

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I don't understand your point. Assuming it was a situation where the tribe only had one nuhn(which wouldn't be entirely ideal I imagine), then even if he suddenly got it in his head that he can do whatever he wanted because he has an important role, it doesn't change the fact that he can just as easily be replaced by someone less erratic and selfish. He's doing himself no favours by testing his luck and behaving however he wants. I don't see why a nuhn would be exempt from disciplinary action executed by the tribe leaders. Last thing he'd want is to get himself exiled for even killed just because he was feeling a little arrogant.

 

 

You have some very odd concepts of how power works. You seem to assume that a tribal leader would have a level of absolute power that would make the Kings of France jealous.

 

You also seem to think these people who've held onto their traditions are going to drop them casually because someone is a dick.

 

So lets back up. The Nunh is a recognized position. It may not be chief, or Priestess or Godking or whatever they want to call the head of their grouping, but said person has real politicla power by dint of having a position.

 

Can the chief punish him for being a dick? Potentially but if no one can challenge him they have to throw away their traditions in doing so.

 

Could the chief turn a blind eye to abuses of power because the chief doesn't care? Also possible.

 

Could their society decide even if a woman has no desire for sex with him force them because that's "For the good of the tribe"

 

Could the biggest strongest Miqote male in a hunting ground be forced into a role he has no desire for because "its for the good of my people?"2

 

There's more than enough places in lore for abuses of power to occur, its not like Miqote are described as being super holier than thou tolerant types who value the freedom of others above all.

 

True. But your theory is nothing more than fanon, my friend. It is not canon, nor should it be confused as such. Also, Miqo'te* :B

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But your theory is nothing more than fanon, my friend. It is not canon, nor should it be confused as such.

 

Unfortunately, it's also conjecture to say that a nunh has absolutely no soft power and can't be a slimy bastard because the tribal leaders would keep him in check, since the devs have not said anything on the issue. Presumably, most Seeker territories can't be that way, or the society would have ripped itself apart given the ready alternative of the city-states, but even that is conjecture. While there is one territory of one tribe in game, it's variant compared to other sources of lore (in that instance, the nunh does hold leadership authority, which dev post lore specifies is rare), so extrapolating from it is complicated.

 

So, ultimately, on this specific topic (how nunh behave in practice), we're all making conjectures in a grey area of lore, whether it be from our interpretation of lore posts, an argument from anthropology, or an argument from biology (which isn't on this thread, but has been floated on these forums before). What's nice about that freedom is that it gives our characters lots of ways to have unique backstories and to generate RP from those backstories.

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I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation. 

 

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

Well, look at it this way. The lore might be "vague", but it certainly doesn't point in that direction. Not only it doesn't mention that females are abused; the ones we see ingame are willing (one of them even complains that the Nunh is not performing his duties as much as she'd like (?) ); the lore also states that a Tia can leave the tribe and become a Nunh so long as any female is supporting him. Without their support, he's nothing.

 

If anything, the lore seems to suggest that the opinion of females is not only important but also primordial. This said, the case of abuse seems unlikely, or not the norm. A different thing is people's personal fantasies; those are unlimited, and you could create a special tribe where the Nunh abuses the females if you're so keen on it!

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I am not talking about monogamy. I am talking about the real power of the position. Lack of holding official or even unofficial leadership of the grouping doesn't change the fact that he has power over determining the future generation. 

 

This can easily lead to all sorts of horrific abuses. Saying "Well he doesn't officially lead the tribe" doesn't matter then.

Well, look at it this way. The lore might be "vague", but it certainly doesn't point in that direction. Not only it doesn't mention that females are abused; the ones we see ingame are willing (one of them even complains that the Nunh is not performing his duties as much as she'd like (?) ); the lore also states that a Tia can leave the tribe and become a Nunh so long as any female is supporting him. Without their support, he's nothing.

 

If anything, the lore seems to suggest that the opinion of females is not only important but also primordial. This said, the case of abuse seems unlikely, or not the norm. A different thing is people's personal fantasies; those are unlimited, and you could create a special tribe where the Nunh abuses the females if you're so keen on it!

 

 

I am not saying All Seeker society is a systematic soul destroying system. I am saying that as the system exists and some people do exploit systems.  Seeker societies are large and potentially quite diverse, allowing for a character to have a backstory where the system failed them thus they became an adventurer.. well that's pretty much the most basic run of the mill story for how someone ends up in such a path.

 

As for the assumption that women hold all the power in the Nunh relationship. How much are you willing to put up with before you'd abandon everything you know, everyone you know to go off to an unknown place? Because that's honestly a point of last resort.

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