Why are there any Midlanders?

[Illira]

I'll quote you again then: 

Lalafell are sort of a niche thing for people who want to play something cute and silly. 

I'm not saying that they're not cutely designed, they are. But I don't believe that their physical appearance is terribly indicative of how they act, and their reputation with the world at large according to world lore/NPC interaction. And I don't think that I read into anything that you said, when you said the above. If you were trying to refer simply to player/racial stereotypes, which you seemed to be mostly doing so with the Miqo'te description, then you should preface with that. As it was, it did not come across that way.

 

Though I think that Kismet did a good job of summing up my feelings on the matter:

The issue stems from how Square Enix has treated the race themselves, honestly. They give Lalafell obnoxiously "cutesy" animations, then try to have serious portrayals of them personality-wise the in game's story. The Japanese love to have things that are "stupid and adorable, but can still be really adult!" for some reason.

[K'nahli]

I'll quote you again then: 

Lalafell are sort of a niche thing for people who want to play something cute and silly. 

I'm not saying that they're not cutely designed, they are. But I don't believe that their physical appearance is terribly indicative of how they act, and their reputation with the world at large according to world lore/NPC interaction. And I don't think that I read into anything that you said, when you said the above. If you were trying to refer simply to player/racial stereotypes, which you seemed to be mostly doing so with the Miqo'te description, then you should preface with that. As it was, it did not come across that way.

 

Though I think that Kismet did a good job of summing up my feelings on the matter:

The issue stems from how Square Enix has treated the race themselves, honestly. They give Lalafell obnoxiously "cutesy" animations, then try to have serious portrayals of them personality-wise the in game's story. The Japanese love to have things that are "stupid and adorable, but can still be really adult!" for some reason.

 

 

To US they are silly, to Eorzeans they are nothing strange I believe. Also I doubt that many lalafells behave in such a cute manner anyways. They are just created as such for the gamer's enjoyment.

[Faye]

I'm not saying that they're not cutely designed, they are. But I don't believe that their physical appearance is terribly indicative of how they act, and their reputation with the world at large according to world lore/NPC interaction. And I don't think that I read into anything that you said, when you said the above. If you were trying to refer simply to player/racial stereotypes, which you seemed to be mostly doing so with the Miqo'te description, then you should preface with that. As it was, it did not come across that way.

 

Though I think that Kismet did a good job of summing up my feelings on the matter:

The issue stems from how Square Enix has treated the race themselves, honestly. They give Lalafell obnoxiously "cutesy" animations, then try to have serious portrayals of them personality-wise the in game's story. The Japanese love to have things that are "stupid and adorable, but can still be really adult!" for some reason.

 

 

I fully agree with Kismet, in that what I'm getting at is that they look silly. I'm not saying that they actually are or should be silly personality-wise. My post was about reasons people may not want to play races other than Midlander, particularly based on aesthetics. While I fully think that Lalafell can be played as serious characters and I enjoy seeing as much, some people only want to play Lalafell as something cutesy, and many people don't want to roll their serious and/or bad ass character as a Lalafell because they can't find it plausible to take Lalafell seriously, or because Lalafell don't look "cool" or "attractive" enough to fit their character. I'm talking about completely OOC things, as this thread is discussing people's OOC reasons for playing Midlanders as opposed to any other races--not discussing how Lalafell are viewed IG/IC. I don't think I need to preface my posts with the fact that they pertain to the subject of the thread.

[ansemaru]

Since we're playing a Final Fantasy game, I'll put it this way. To me, asking this question is a lot like saying, "Lol? What's the point of Basch, Balthier et al in FFXII? Boring! Why wouldn't you want to play a Moogle/Bangaa/Seeq?" When in reality, literally nothing would have been enhanced by their being any other race. (Well, Vaan might have been a little more bearable. /tongueincheek)

 

The fact that there weren't any Bangaa party members in FFXII still haunts me to this day. YOU THINK I'M KIDDING? I AM NOT KIDDING.

 

Anyway, I'm seconding those who highlighted the comparative lack of concrete lore for Midlanders. Some people want to play a character concept that isn't intrinsically tied to lore, and Midlanders are certainly much easier to do that with. Highlanders, Sea Wolves, Duskwights, and both tribes of Miqo'te have a fairly big part of their role in the world defined by lore, and playing one of them means you may have to incorporate stuff that you don't like or want to deal with all that much. Of course, you don't need to, but if you don't, you may find yourself having to justify why your Sea Wolf isn't a pirate, your Highlander isn't an Ala Mhigan refugee, or your Duskwight isn't a bandit. The point is that more than anything else, Midlanders offer freedom in terms of what they can be in the world of the game, lorewise.

 

And, as stated above, familiarity. Their bodies, faces, and culture are the closest to those of people playing the game, and it's just easier for some to get inside the head of a character who's a human being like them. Most folks don't have the background to know exactly what it's like to live in a Seeker tribe or a Keeper clan, or how it feels to be two feet tall and constantly in danger of being eaten by piestes and ochus, or even what it would be like to have green skin. The magic of roleplaying is that we can insert ourselves into such roles if we want to, but many people do just want to play something that they don't feel as though they have to research lore, naming conventions, etc. for.

 

Some people just think Midlanders look best. Not everyone's into cat ears, big bulky bodies, stretched-out limbs, or tiny stumpy characters. I know I prefer the presets available for male Midlanders to those available for male Highlanders, generally. They're less rugged, which is the type of character I tend to create in the first place, so it works out pretty nicely for me.

 

Finally, this thread's entire premise was needlessly antagonistic, like I said before. Getting defensive over Miqo'tes is uncool if you're just going to start spite threads. Most people here love them and/or play them. You're hardly alone, and you don't need to antagonize people who play Hyurs to prove it.

[ansemaru]

Ah, also, in regards to the question of Lalafell. I've found that they're a little off-putting to me as a player not because they're cute, but because they're the go-to race for trolls and RP griefers. I think I've sort of been stuck with the stereotype of them being rude and abrasive, even with examples like Tataru in the game's story proving otherwise.

[K'nahli]

For a totally on-topic statement, we should all make one lalafel or Roeg each and on some particular day at some particular time, just log on, band together and just run through the streets of Ul'dah and out into the world.

 

 

*sighs*

 

Magnificent.

[Faye]

Ah, also, in regards to the question of Lalafell. I've found that they're a little off-putting to me as a player not because they're cute, but because they're the go-to race for trolls and RP griefers. I think I've sort of been stuck with the stereotype of them being rude and abrasive, even with examples like Tataru in the game's story proving otherwise.

 

I was going to mention that, too. :< The majority of trolls I see are playing Lalafell. That can make people reluctant to RP as/with Lalafell.

[ArmachiA]

For the second character you are really playing a garlean and game mechanics won't let you is that the case? 

 

As for the first is it you couldn't justify any other race having roots in Gridania?  Is the character tied down to centuries of family hertige or just has "roots" there if so such has been the case for Miquote and Lalafell readily.

 

I play a Midlander Garlean, in cutscenes it seems most Garleans are midlanders. It was fairly easy.

 

Armi didn't feel right as any other race. Period. This isn't hard?

[ansemaru]

Ah, also, in regards to the question of Lalafell. I've found that they're a little off-putting to me as a player not because they're cute, but because they're the go-to race for trolls and RP griefers. I think I've sort of been stuck with the stereotype of them being rude and abrasive, even with examples like Tataru in the game's story proving otherwise.

 

I was going to mention that, too. :< The majority of trolls I see are playing Lalafell. That can make people reluctant to RP as/with Lalafell.

 

It's honestly a shame that Lalafell are the go-to race for trolls. There are loads of great Lalafell NPCs, and the few Lalafell PCs that I've RPed with have all been really excellent, but I'm just not sure I could play one myself, given their reputation and the "feeling" I get from them thanks to it.

[Dat Oni]

I mean there's nothing special about them. They are at best a "Me Too" for any of the nations of Eorzea they haven't built anything they don't have any special culture and to get the same background from any other race option you'd just have to be an orphan or something

 

So why would anyone ever play a midlander when they could play an orphaned Miqote/Elezen/Roe and get the the innate flavoring of orphan status and uniqueness of being torn between two worlds. Why would anyone ever pick something so boring as a Midlander?

 

Because not everyone wants to be a special snowflake.

[TheLastCandle]

Since we're playing a Final Fantasy game, I'll put it this way. To me, asking this question is a lot like saying, "Lol? What's the point of Basch, Balthier et al in FFXII? Boring! Why wouldn't you want to play a Moogle/Bangaa/Seeq?" When in reality, literally nothing would have been enhanced by their being any other race. (Well, Vaan might have been a little more bearable. /tongueincheek)

 

The fact that there weren't any Bangaa party members in FFXII still haunts me to this day. YOU THINK I'M KIDDING? I AM NOT KIDDING.

 

I would've liked more diversity, too! In a world with a number of colorful races, they ought to be used. I think the point I was trying to make is that if Balthier were a Bangaa, it wouldn't instantly make him a better or more interesting character. Similarly, none of our Hyur would be enriched by changing to Miqo'te or vice versa.

 

But I think the OP is long gone, so.. I'm likely preaching to the choir at this point.

[Clover]

Midlanders... (*-*) *Sigh of love*

 

(I have nothing to add, really. Why do you like your favourite food?)

[Dagny Voss]

I chose a Roe...cause I just liked them. =) I was drawn to the pirate  background I guess.  I also have a highlander...but I favor my Roe.  

[Gideon Aryeh]

*sighs for these threads*

 

Honestly I love how Midlander women look. I think they are very pretty I love everything about them they aren't over the top and many rpers I've seen on both servers play them as very everyday women. I also think that midlander men look very cool as certain classes especially Marauders, Black Mages and Paladins. Don't get me wrong I absolutely like Miqo's alot (though not as much the men as I am more of a Bangaa guy and prefer more feral looking and bigger guys)

 

But I absolutely find Midlander women quite attractive to look at and have loved the rp I've had with every Midlander woman so far because for me it just feels quite authentic from what I've experienced. While I have no issue with the "Hyur kitty" Miqo (hell Amaare attracts more than his fair share lol) There is just something endearing about a down to earth Midlander be they male or female. Not to mention its more of a challenge making such a vanilla race stand out in rp.

 

And I must say it really has been a pleasure with all of you Midlander players. Great great stuff honestly.

[Fulcrum]

I chose Midlander for Claire because she was supposed to be kind of generic in her appearance, aside from choosing a sort of unique hairstyle for 2.0 (haven't really seen anyone with it) since it was short without being boyishly short. She's also supposed to be lithe, which is possible with a Midlander, and smaller than say a lot of male Midlanders, an average Highlander, many Elezen, or any Roegadyn, so that she gets underestimated.

 

 

So it was an aesthetic choice...but a bit different from most aesthetic choices.

[Knight Kat]

IMHO I think threads like this aren't necessary. If someone is curious as to why a certain race is played then fine; ask in the form of a question sparked by curiosity.

 

To me, this thread seems like it is asking people to justify themselves. They don't have to. They shouldn't be made to feel like they have to.

 

However, I will contribute because I feel like this can't be said enough: race does not make the character; the player makes the character.

Race gives a skin, and the possibility for a foundation of lore and back-story. IF the Midland Hyur are to be considered "blank slates" then that is good because some people want "blank slate" characters to start with.

 

But boring? No. I have RPed with two Midland Hyur characters so far, and they are fantastic. *waves @ Roen Deneith and Tobias Nightbringer* I am still in the learning process with RP, so I learned a lot from them.

[Zac Evans]

[align=center]Alright, lemme put a cork in this right now. Midlanders are your typical 'intelligence' race, with what we know about them being that they're trained in their letters from infancy and tend to be more intelligent that the other races. In your 'perfect lore-based world', we Middies would be holding a conversation about the long-term detriments of aether exposure in dungeon delving adventurers as opposed to the long-term detriments of aether exposure to soldiers constantly battling freshly summoned Primals to later be penned for a tome, while most other races-Lalas are actually very quick witted, so they'd most likely chime in with valuable input-would say 'lolwaht?'.[/align]

 

[align=center]This NEVER happens to be the case because NO ONE wants to be a dummy-most feel it's beneath them. It's no fun to feel like you have noticeable flaws when you could be 'Too loyal to a fault' or 'Work entirely too hard' or the popular choices of haughty behavior and lack of trust. You'll find out pretty damned fast that EVERYONE has the rough equivalent of a high school diploma. Is this bad? Meh, I'd like to feel like the Middies have something special about them, but the community would have to accept that they'd have to go from intelligent to wise if they want to be 'smart'. BIG difference in the two.[/align]

 

[align=center]It's easy to say everyone's intelligent because that's something that can't really be measured, not like strength. Take comparing a Lalafell to a Roegadyn. We both know who's stronger, you can argue until the cows come home but that ain't gonna change the fact that the eight foot eight behemoth of a sentient being can most likely bench press an engine block with their bare hands where the cute little humanoid doll would be instantly crushed. Intelligence on the other hand? I could rant and rave all day but I'll sum in up here. You could roleplay an elderly character who's devoted their entire life to the pursuit of knowledge, yet there will always be more fresh-faced youth characters who can talk you around the block on any subject you so choose-even if you happen to be the sole reasearcher and pioneer in that field.[/align]

 

[align=center]TL;DR: We ARE special. We're not ALLOWED to be special.[/align]

[Naunet]

Well, I will say this, OP: Congratulations on luring so many...

[ansemaru]

Is that actually in the lore, or is that just Zac trying to be a special snowflake?

[Faye]

I didn't really get Midlanders being more intelligent than any race from any of the lore. If anything, I figured Elezen and Lalafell would be the more scholarly races.

[Zac Evans]

Is that actually in the lore, or is that just Zac trying to be a special snowflake?

 

[align=center]Lore from the official website and several wikis.[/align]

[Zac Evans]

I didn't really get Midlanders being more intelligent than any race from any of the lore. If anything, I figured Elezen and Lalafell would be the more scholarly races.

 

[align=center]Granted Elezen do have higher intelligence stat-wise in game-Midlander Hyur and Lalafell being tied for second-but I'm looking at it from the lore pages from pre-release. Which...is looking really bad for me because I'll be damned if I can find them, I can only find the references off of several wikis that for all I know may have been cut 'n pasted from a rambling mad mans blog. Although these guys (http://ffxivrealm.com/wiki/hyur/) posted sources and have a very thorough page in my opinion. [/align]

 

[align=center]But from what I can gather is that during the three great migration which brought the Hyur to Eorzea, they brought with them sophisticated technology. what constitutes sophisticated tech? Don't ask me, could be indoor plumbing for all I know, and it's crap compared to Garlean Magitek and Allagan everything. And this next part is speculation, but I take it that Elezen are more wise than intelligent due to an enlongated life span. Now don't get me wrong, Coerthas has a huge library devoted to astrology and the like but the feel of it overall is that of a massive record storehouse that uses the more mystical aspects of the science of astrology to try and foretell the future paired with logs on dragons and dravians. A purely single-minded pursuit instead of a treasure trove of earthly knowledge.[/align]

[ansemaru]

But I don't think that much can be chalked up to Elezen having longer lifespans. They aren't Lord of the Rings elves, and don't live for centuries on end, so the comparative difference in lifespan between them and Hyur isn't so huge. If anything, it's probably only a few decades at most, and for that matter something that is probably only the case with Wildwoods- most Duskwights don't share their living conditions, and likely have a higher rate of dying at around the same age as everyone else.

 

If you can't find lore sources on anything official, you might be basing your assumption on fanon rather than canon. Seems like that's a running issue around here lately.

 

Here's the thing about "intelligence". The way you're talking about it, you seem to be thinking about availability of knowledge by way of study or research, rather than an inherent mental quality. And that's not something intrinsic to anybody based on race. It's something that comes from one's circumstances, the availability of material to learn from, etc. And for centuries, Eorzean culture has been a melting pot of influences from all five of the major non-beastman, non-Garlean races. They developed concurrently, share a history, and share resources like research and knowledge. So the comparative intelligence of any individual in Eorzea is more to do with their access to higher learning, rather than their brain being naturally better at knowledge. Midlanders aren't all going to be super-geniuses as a flavor thing- you may note that there are numerous Midlander NPCs in the game, none of which who are portrayed as more intelligent than anybody else. Hell, look at the figures of authority in the most "intellectual" guilds and professions: the Thaumaturges' Guild is run by a group of Dunesfolk Lalafell, the Arcanist guildmaster is a Seeker of the Sun Miqo'te and his deputy is a Sea Wolf Roegadyn. The Scholar questline involves a fairly intellectual Plainsfolk Lalafell (and another Lalafell scholar in the backstory). Even in the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, the members of the organization that are shown to be more focused on learning and intellectual subjects are not the Midlanders. We've got a couple of wise and mysterious Elezen, and of course Papalymo, who is a Plainsfolk! I don't think anybody, looking at Thancred and Minfilia, would go "ah, yes, the stereotype for Midlander Hyur like these two is that they're SUPER-GENIUSES".

[Ninian Lune'ciel]

What especially baffles me is, that for once a game company decided not to use "generic fantasy human" as the players only option to play something human like. Highlanders have Lore, Lore that stands out. Lore that makes them special.

 

I think what you might be missing a larger point, Jomoru. Not necessarily having a strong sense of racial lore, or 'culture' as you might call it, doesn't mean Midlanders are somehow inferior.

 

To take a real example, the United States, at least in my opinion, doesn't have the same types of strong and traditional traits you might find in European or Asian cultures. It is a result of the way the individual is seen in the lens of society that, like the Midlanders, American culture is less unified in comparison.

 

It isn't that Midlanders do not have any culture. They just have a different structure from the other races.

[Blade]

If I recall correctly (don't know if its been mentioned earlier, skimmed a bunch of the posts), Midlanders are somewhat considered different from the other races in the shape of their ears, which makes sense, because to the eyes of Elezen, Lalafell, and Miqo'te, Hyur are actually in the minority for ear size. People just often tend to forget about that, but I believe in the original 1.0 race description they pointed it out.

 

Anyways, there is something to be said about being 'one among many,' and being a Midlander as being 'baseline.' Yeah, the lore surrounding them is pretty blank and they are just the 'dime a dozen' race, but that in and of itself is something unique. You don't really stick out. But maybe that works for your character, in order to slip by unnoticed, not draw attention to yourself. I can see some roleplayers approaching it from that angle.

 

Personally, I've always had my main character be a Hume/Hyur in FFXI/FFXIV. It sort of requires you to go that extra mile to make them unique, but I also think it gives you a cool vantage point ICly to learn about the lore of the other races from player characters, without really having strict lore for your character to adhere to yourself. Midlander thus, for me, seems more free to do what you want with it.