Let us speak of language

[Erik Mynhier]

So I had a very nice conversation with a few RPers on the topic of language in Eorzea. Specifically whether there is a common language, such as South America irl being mostly Spanish speakers (Yes I know others are there, I said mostly), or is there many national languages with a common language used, making it more like Europe, a relatively packed continent that has still managed to develop many languages while using a common language (English).

 

Now I know the Lore says little on the matter, making some RPers nervous about touching it, for fear future expansions to the lore will force them to recon. But I am not asking for Lore, I'm asking what your gut tells you in the absence of the lore.

 

My personal opinion is the latter, multiple local languages with a common language for all, most likely Dunefolk, due to the rl history that states that those who control the business of the time, picks the language. This is led in large part from the naming conventions that have been greatly detailed by the lore devs, far more then most things. The names seem to have similarities to rl languages, as has been pointed out many times.

 

I just want to know what everyone thinks. Either way Erik will continue to speak Ala Mhigan (Dutch) and Ishgardian (French) from time to time.

[Zhavi]

I always think of it this way: where there is commerce, there is a common language. Maybe it's just a trade language, but something.

 

Then again, I've always been one to make up whatever I need for rp -- so long as it does not go against or break current lore. If something changes later, whatever, I'll make it work.

[Knight Kat]

I've said it before in an old post, but I'll say it again here. It makes sense for there to be various languages amongst the cultures and/or nations even if there is a common Eorzean language that is more-commonly spoken.

 

The naming conventions would be impossible to maintain for most of the races if they didn't understand the meaning of their names. There is no name-generator in the lore that all Eorzeans go to in order to name their children. Yet, nearly all of NPCs have names based on the game's naming conventions.

 

My gut feeling, as you put it, tells me that there are various languages within the cultures and nations of Eorzea, but the devs never made mini dictionaries for any of them except for the Roegadyn Seawolves. They probably thought it too much work, or unnecessary since there -is- a common Eorzean language.

 

My opinion is; if you want Erik to spout off words in other languages, got for it. It wouldn't bother me because my character wouldn't be able to ICly understand him anyways. :lol:

[Ildur]

My guts tell me that Eorzea has one single unified language, with maybe dialects or variations across areas, but nothing that could be clearly identified as different. Pretty much like every spanish speaking country in real life: they all are a variation of a particular language from Spain, castillian. There's actually a crapton of regional languages in Spain, but when you learn 'spanish' you learn castillain, because that's the language that imposed itself thanks to the Reconquest, and so it was the one they used when colonizing America.

 

So my take on it is that everyone in Eorzea speaks "eorzean" or some kind of variation of it. Not because they were colonized by an external kingdom that imposed something on them (like it was in the case of South America), but because it is stated by lore that all the races have been in the continent for a really long time. So long, in fact, that racial barriers have pretty much fell and dissapeared except on the cases of Ishgard and Gridania who are pretty xenophobic. But otherwise you can find all races all over the continent.

On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense for certain nations (particularly Gridania and Ishgard) to have their own distinct languages. But I'd expect such a thing would have been mentioned by the lore. And that really is the problem: At the end, no matter what our guts tells us, or how logical it'd be to have multiple languages, the fact is that they are never mentioned anywhere in the game except for ancient roegadyn. This pretty much implies that there is only one language in use as far as the canon is concerned.

[FreelanceWizard]

My impression is that Eorzean is the common tongue, with the "racial languages" having died off quite a while ago with the possible exception of the beast tribes and rare "lost" villages and societies (i.e., player-created) with no outside contact. Centuries if not millennia of living in close proximity and actively trading and warring would have turned distinct languages into pidgins and eventually into a new language (a creole). As the creole grew increasingly popular, it just became "the language." Because this happened quite a while ago, it's possible that Garlemald experienced the same process pre-Empire (the Empire being pretty recent in that continent's history). Certainly, I would expect all Garleans are forced to speak the same language enforced by Imperial decree.

[Goodfellow]

I lean towards there being more or less one common Eorzean language (minus the beastmen tribes, Padjal, and fanon languages).  There could be a number of dialects, but we don't really see anything amongst the playable races. 

 

-The Elezen have a French flavor to their names, but any sort of barrier to communication is never mentioned. 

-The Roegadyn language is specifically mentioned as being used exclusively in names, having otherwise died off. 

-The Miqo'te language apparently shared the same 26 letters as the Eorzean alphabet (with slightly different pronunciations), which they adopted. 

-And the Lalafell are mentioned as having once had vowels that they no longer use, implying to me that the language which used those vowels is no longer in use either.

-We do see and hear reference to beastmen languages and, maybe, a Garlean language, but we are also explicitly able to understand them via the Echo, which your particular character may or may not have.  In fact, the only language we ever hear (which we still understand via subtitles, but which we do in fact hear) is the Ascian language.

 

It's frustratingly unrealistic to me as a linguist-to-be, but we really don't know how large an area the total geography of Eorzea occupies and they do have fast travel capabilities and a method of instant communication (the linkshells/pearls), so those would play a role, as they have in the real world, in wilting away a number of languages.

[Koninbeor]

I will echo Ildur and FW on this one. There is no indication anywhere that any languages exist in Eorzea other than the common tongue. Different regions are likely to use the language in slightly different ways and accents probably wouldn't be uncommon. Even within the United States, there are accents varying by where people live and different words are used to describe items. Soda or pop, for example. The only other language we see an example of is Roegadyn and even then we only have a smattering of words with no indication as to how those words would actually be used to form complete sentences.

[Nate Mathis]

I would say languages could exist. Other final fantasy's had language differences..such as the girl in ff 10, Riku was it? Her crew and her seemed slavic to me.

[Erik Mynhier]

My thoughts merely come from my personal life and experience, which is different from most americans, and my training in basic medicine and science. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. That's all.

[Knight Kat]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. That's all.

 

I've already said my piece, so I'll just second this^

[Aldotsk]

I would say languages could exist. Other final fantasy's had language differences..such as the girl in ff 10, Riku was it? Her crew and her seemed slavic to me.

 

Al Bhed? They are just scrambled purposely. They aren't really slavic. It's a substitution ciphers.

 

Honestly, no one can confirm what these people speak in Eorzea. However, the way I see people speaking in different language ICly makes it feel like they are still in the old tribal like barbarians unable to be adapted to common language. 

 

If we get samurai/ninja from the far east of eorzea, then it's obvious that we'll have to face Japanese language. (oh wait, that already exists. kind of.)

[Shizuka]

I sort of picture it as there being one overarching "Common" tongue, as well as individual languages that may only have limited usage nowadays. Meaning, you might grow up in Ul'dah, but since the Common tongue is the most used, you really might not know whatever the native tongue is there. However, if your family is super traditional and stresses history and sticking to your roots and all that, you may have grown up knowing the native tongue... even if it doesn't have much practical application in every day life.

 

On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the more isolated people, especially Miqo'te tribes, had their own language and were only semi-familiar with the Common tongue. I figure all this leaves a lot of wiggle room for RPers to have a variety of accents and dialects and also allows some to RP characters that don't always understand the language. Makes for some amusement when a character takes you literally on some slang!

[E'irawen]

My impression is that Eorzean is the common tongue, with the "racial languages" having died off quite a while ago with the possible exception of the beast tribes and rare "lost" villages and societies (i.e., player-created) with no outside contact. Centuries if not millennia of living in close proximity and actively trading and warring would have turned distinct languages into pidgins and eventually into a new language (a creole). As the creole grew increasingly popular, it just became "the language." Because this happened quite a while ago, it's possible that Garlemald experienced the same process pre-Empire (the Empire being pretty recent in that continent's history). Certainly, I would expect all Garleans are forced to speak the same language enforced by Imperial decree.

[TheLastCandle]

FreelanceWizard pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter. All of the city-states in Eorzea seem to be quite cosmopolitan, with nary a trace of a disparate languages aside from racial naming conventions.

 

Honestly, if you speak French - for example - and intend for it to be understood by other players who roleplay themselves being from Ishgard you should not expect them to a.) know French or b.) use Google Translate to understand what your character is saying. It's your head-canon, not theirs, and they shouldn't be beholden to it.

 

Otherwise, in my opinion, go crazy with it if it makes you happy.

[Erik Mynhier]

Otherwise' date=' in my opinion, go crazy with it if it makes you happy.[/quote']

 

Then to that I smile to you and say my thanks, and follow with a "Gratis Ala Mhigo!" and to Ishgard I say, "Ouvrez les portes!"

[Blue]

I know you said to not talk of lore here, but my opinion on the matter really is lore-weighed. As far as I know, the Adventurer, as one who possessed the Echo, has the ability to understand and speak all languages (it's how we can communicate with moogles). I guess it kind of works like in Harry Potter's books, where Harry doesn't even realize to be speaking with snakes: to him they all sound like the language he knows, and replies as such. I think the adventurer does the same. I figured it's why, when in quests we are given the option to reply in different ways to an NPC's question, the reply options are always in the same language/accent/dialect the NPC uses with you. I don't know if it makes sense...

 

I know not all RPers like to follow the story and lore, but as far as I go, I usually roll with it. I have an Ala Mighan character who supposedly speaks Ala Mighan, but can understand the language of the other players and reply at ease in their same language naturally thanks to his Echo.

[Ildur]

While it's true that the Echo has that effect, there's nothing in the game itself suggesting there are multiple languages being used in the different Eorzean city states. There are no mentions about the Ala Mhigan, Gridanian, Ishgardian or any other language in any NPC dialogue or quest. If such a barrier existed (and language barriers are a pretty big deal), then you'd think it would be mentioned plainly somewhere. But nobody does. The simpler answers are the most probable: if no NPC mentions the difference in regional languages, the most likely answer is that they don't exist at all.

 

I wonder if anyone has asked in the official lore forums about this, and if they got any official answer. (<- is lazy)

[Blue]

While it's true that the Echo has that effect, there's nothing in the game itself suggesting there are multiple languages being used in the different Eorzean city states. There are no mentions about the Ala Mhigan, Gridanian, Ishgardian or any other language in any NPC dialogue or quest. If such a barrier existed (and language barriers are a pretty big deal), then you'd think it would be mentioned plainly somewhere. But nobody does. The simpler answers are the most probable: if no NPC mentions the difference in regional languages, the most likely answer is that they don't exist at all.

 

I wonder if anyone has asked in the official lore forums about this, and if they got any official answer. (<- is lazy)

Well, that may be true about normal NPCs, but there are several manifestations of different languages in the game. The moogles, as I mentioned before; or think of the Paragons, it's with Echo that we understand what they say. Same goes for the Primals (I think the "understood thanks to Echo" dialogues are all those balloons with the strange, spotty frame). The names used by the naming conventions must belong to those races' natural language (I think there is an item or fight that explains in its description of how its name comes from Miqo'te language). Padjals too have their own language, as explained in the description of the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak. Languages are definitely there, imo.

[Ildur]

The existance of languages isn't the problem. The problem is if any of them are used to speak in a day to day basis. Naming conventions are only that: naming conventions. If a family uses roman names does not mean that they indeed speak latin.

 

None of the examples you proposed, Primals, Paragons or beast tribes, are part of any city state. Except for the Padjal. And even with them we have no evidence that their language is used for anything more than naming. We can't really use them as evidence that there are multiple languages in use in the current times.

 

The evidence we have is that Paragons and beast tribes have their own unique languages. But that doesn't mean that Eorzean (human) cities do. In fact, I'd say that since the game states for a fact that the language barrier exists between beastmen and humans, but fails to state anything about human languages, this implies (but does not prove) that the city-states share a single common one. Anything else is just speculation.

[Koninbeor]

^This.

 

The beast tribes wouldn't have any influence at all on the languages of civilized society. Very few people would ever have any reason to have any sort of communication with them at all and even then the communication would almost certainly be limited.

 

At the end of the day, people are going to go whatever direction they want. As mentioned earlier, the Echo completely negates the significance of language IC unless a player chooses for a given PC to not have the Echo. Eorzea has been largely designed in a way that breaks down barriers as opposed to creating them. That said, RP how you want to RP. Even if the devs stated on record one way or the other that something was this way or that, there would still be divergence in RP.

[Knight Kat]

So, I recently finished the main story, and found something relevant to this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only does Minfilia reference the existence of various languages in Eorzea, but she calls it one of the "barriers" that divides the peoples. Its right there, in the main story. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned or acknowledged.

 

This doesn't mean we know what those languages are, or how they are spoken, but they -are- there.

[Erik Mynhier]

So, I recently finished the main story, and found something relevant to this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not only does Minfilia reference the existence of various languages in Eorzea, but she calls it one of the "barriers" that divides the peoples. Its right there, in the main story. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned or acknowledged.

 

This doesn't mean we know what those languages are, or how they are spoken, but they -are- there.

 

Outstanding find. So lore seems to agree, multiple languages we as the main character never notice due to the echo. So assuming most do not RP as having an echo, then logically from this passage, non-echoed players speak multiple languages.

[Ildur]

Good find. I forgot about it.

 

But still it doesn't mean there are multiple human languages in the current times.

It's a moral boosting speech and what it does is reference that languages exist in the world, but not that they are used in Eorzea. Minifilia is making statements in a general or philosophical sense ("Languages are a barrier that divide people"), and not as a specific truth about current Eorzean society ("Eorzea is divided, by language and etc"). As far as we know languages may be a barrier that's been 'trascended' by Eorzea already, as they are not mentioned anywhere else.

[Goodfellow]

Egads!  I remember that scene and completely overlooked that bit.  Well, that opens things up a bit, but we still lack concrete details one way or the other to make any sort of conclusions about the linguistic landscape of Eorzea (as Ildur has pointed out above).

 

A grey area it is then!

[Knight Kat]

Good find. I forgot about it.

 

But still it doesn't mean there are multiple human languages in the current times.

It's a moral boosting speech and what it does is reference that languages exist in the world, but not that they are used in Eorzea. Minifilia is making statements in a general or philosophical sense ("Languages are a barrier that divide people"), and not as a specific truth about current Eorzean society ("Eorzea is divided, by language and etc"). As far as we know languages may be a barrier that's been 'trascended' by Eorzea already, as they are not mentioned anywhere else.

 

She says nothing about referencing the past. She says "there exists", not "there existed". She is speaking to the Eorzean alliance before a major military operation. Why would she be referencing the world? Actually, if she was referencing the world, her reference would have to include the Garlean Empire. Considering they are about to take on another people of the world in all-out war, I see it highly unlikely that she is referencing anyone but Eorzeans.

 

Her speech would be rather insulting, actually, if Eorzea didn't have the variety she is referencing, for she says that without the variety there would be "sterile orthodoxy".

 

If Eorzea has broken down the language barrier then why would Minfilia say that those barriers she referenced "can never truly be broken down?" Then she mentions transcending them as the alliance is doing "NOW" in coming together for the operation. At the end she says "In defense of our shared home." Which can't mean Hydaelyn because the world is also the home of the Garlean Empire. She has to mean Eorzea.

 

As for it being just a speech, and the only reference thus far, there are many things referenced in speeches, and only once. For example, the age of Gridania is referenced in a speech. How would they have to be referenced, and how many times before they are valid?

 

You choose to interpret it as just a speech that doesn't mean much? I choose to interpret it literally, and in reference to Eorzea. There is no reason why I shouldn't and no reason why my interpretation is any less valid.

 

Maybe we should just agree to disagree?