Olofantur Posted October 1, 2014 Share #26 Posted October 1, 2014 thoughts on the template system? Perhaps a variety of templates for different types of pages? "Characters/Monsters" could be more biography based like the current wiki entries? Separate using tabs maybe Character appearance, then Location(s), then perhaps general Lore? eg. -Pictures of a Coblyn from different angles/ Variations in type -Pictures/lists of places where you can find them and maybe a little blurb about the area "Copper bell mines, a source of resources for Ul'dahn yadda yada" -Then one for stats? "health in the range of _____" "Drops _____" That sounds a bit tedious at first, but sue me, I like making lists. "Locations" could utilize a series of galleries at different times of day? maybe -Picture of the map and description of the general area on the first tab -Picture of hot spot locations and descriptions of each/history -3rd tab for Some of the people in that zone and links to their entries? -these could have 1.0 tabs where an overlay of the old map vs the new map is as well as some notes on the changes? and "events" template for stuff like the Autumn War in the "info box" like characters you could have a Date, Factions/combatants, Result? I'm not sure what the best way to seperate event information would be.. maybe a "timeline" tab showing the general series of events, and then just headers below that go into each point in greater detail? I'd make sure to require a "Put links to the pages of people/places involved in the event" I suppose Events would only really be needed if they weren't included on the people or places tabs, but I think that those with events that are longer termed and have people drop in and out of them as time goes by an seperate host of information would be handy. For example if you Had a page about Nym and mentioned how their Scholars and Marauders worked together to great effect, i'm not sure if you'd want to mention everything that was going on at the mainland at the same time. But now i'm just rambling.. thoughts? Link to comment
Olofantur Posted October 1, 2014 Share #27 Posted October 1, 2014 So my only worry about employing a tab system wherein 1.0 lore is not readily visible in the main article, is that new players or players who are just skimming may just bypass the 1.0 section completely and needlessly miss out on a wealth of lore. Do you think if they're skimming they're going to take note of that information if its hidden in a spoiler tag anyways? The Tab system isn't "hidden away" much, you can look at my wiki page to see an example if you like, and I think if we and others are diligent about "for more information about how it was before the calamity see here" the curious people who would truly benefit will click it, while the skimmers continue to skim. EDIT: I suppose I should express that my fear is people will click on a lore link, see a scroll bar, my name on the "last edited" part and go "Oh god he just rambles on about how much he loved 1.0 all the time" and close the window. Link to comment
Sounsyy Posted October 1, 2014 Share #28 Posted October 1, 2014 Do you think if they're skimming they're going to take note of that information if its hidden in a spoiler tag anyways? EDIT: I suppose I should express that my fear is people will click on a lore link, see a scroll bar, my name on the "last edited" part and go "Oh god he just rambles on about how much he loved 1.0 all the time" and close the window. I guess I'm just advocating no separation, merely citation. No spoiler, no tabs, etc. But you do bring up a valid point on length... Will having a super lengthy article turn people away? Maybe... hmm... It may turn away the skimmers and the people who aren't really looking in depth, but it may excite those who are really into the lore. So I guess it's six and one-half-dozen of the other. arrrrgh lol. I do like the psuedo timeline idea though. A massive Eorzean timeline with dates leading to events which are linked to the article of that event's pertinence. | | | 1468-1469 6AE ------ The Autumn War | | etc... /furiously scribbles notes. Link to comment
Olofantur Posted October 1, 2014 Share #29 Posted October 1, 2014 Do you think if they're skimming they're going to take note of that information if its hidden in a spoiler tag anyways? EDIT: I suppose I should express that my fear is people will click on a lore link, see a scroll bar, my name on the "last edited" part and go "Oh god he just rambles on about how much he loved 1.0 all the time" and close the window. I guess I'm just advocating no separation, merely citation. No spoiler, no tabs, etc. But you do bring up a valid point on length... Will having a super lengthy article turn people away? Maybe... hmm... It may turn away the skimmers and the people who aren't really looking in depth, but it may excite those who are really into the lore. So I guess it's six and one-half-dozen of the other. arrrrgh lol. I do like the psuedo timeline idea though. A massive Eorzean timeline with dates leading to events which are linked to the article of that event's pertinence. | | | 1468-1469 6AE ------ The Autumn War | | etc... /furiously scribbles notes. Yes! exactly, I suppose i'm more used to trying to coax people into wanting to know more by doing the bread crumb method and trying not to intimidate them, it makes me a bit shy of overburdening. I totally dig wanting to create one seamless flow I just [using Mor Dhona as an example] Think it would be cool to have the cover page with the most up-to-date information and then if people wanted to see how it changed with each patch they could delve into the side sections or the tabs or however things get organized. A huge "timeline" page with off shoots/links would make a great example page to introduce people to the wiki.. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share #30 Posted October 2, 2014 I can do some templates that mark 1.0 versus 2.0 citations, kind of like how WoWWiki does citations for different source material. I think any necessary demarcation can be done in text ("Prior to the Calamity, XXX (1.0 cite). This tradition has changed after the Calamity (2.0 cite)..." or "This is XXX (1.0 cite, 2.0 cite)"), since some lore has changed, some hasn't, and some just doesn't exist in one version or the other. I'm personally not in favor of turning a review system on. I'd prefer to rely on RC patrol and the usual wiki rules of Be Bold and Be Verifiable. The reason why is that a review panel gives the reviewers fairly inordinate power over what "is" lore, and even things that can be cited can be interpreted rather differently (White Mages, Gridania, and the Elementals, just to name a few that feature prominently on the RPC). Requiring citations and authorizing people to remove uncited content and discuss cited content that may not be accurate is, IMO, a better solution than having reviewers. In fact, controversies can be something that's reported on in the article. For instance, one might have a section under White Mage for "Controversies," flag it as speculation or a meta discussion via template, and note the different interpretations of the Job storyline. On the topic of a timeline, not only are there some slick extensions to create those, but we already have much of one on the wiki. That might be a good starting point for article writing -- turning many of those statements into links and writing articles about those. Link to comment
Olofantur Posted October 2, 2014 Share #31 Posted October 2, 2014 I think as long as we have those back logs then it'll be easy enough to deal with misinformation just reverting or re editing, Would we be able to put in a rule for "If you have been found to have posted/removed the same incorrect/controversial information on the same topic [3?] times, instead of [using your example] using a controversy flag to post your own idea, you will have your edit rights temporarily removed" or something? Hopefully that kind of measure won't be needed... I just worry that the visible place where people should just be able to browse for information might turn into a place of back and forth debate instead of keeping the discussion to the discussion page of that tab or the forum post or what ever method ends up being used to discuss articles. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share #32 Posted October 2, 2014 Yeah, I envision it working a lot like Wikipedia, minus all massive bureaucracy. If something gets hot and edit warring/revert warring happens, page protection goes on and/or one or more parties get their edit rights revoked in that namespace for a time. The nice part about putting in another namespace is that I can do that using Extension:Lockdown; someone could lose rights there but still have it in the main NS to work on character pages. Link to comment
Olofantur Posted October 2, 2014 Share #33 Posted October 2, 2014 using Extension:Lockdown; someone could lose rights there but still have it in the main NS to work on character pages. Awesome, I was hoping that would be the case. Link to comment
Maril Posted October 2, 2014 Share #34 Posted October 2, 2014 I made a list-thingy! https://docs.google.com/document/d/17VVfv5f2jBEyOo0ZO9P49Nz3UogP5Cs5x3Z2nNczM80/edit?usp=sharing Editing is on, please edit responsibly! I brainstormed as much as I could. I probably forgot half of everything. Have a looksie and add if you think something is missing. Link to comment
Sounsyy Posted October 2, 2014 Share #35 Posted October 2, 2014 Editing is on, please edit responsibly! I brainstormed as much as I could. I probably forgot half of everything. Have a looksie and add if you think something is missing. Good start to the list! So this is my working outline of my own lore project. Can draw from this, although, I feel like I'm missing a crucial topic as well... I just can't place what it is. Living on a Prayer The Twelve The Primals The Moogles The Twelve Ascians "Paragons" and the Twelve Archons The Void The Age of Man 1 - The Races of Man Elezen Roegadyn Lalafell Miqo’te Hyur Padjal 2 - The Beast Tribes Amalj’aa and Paglth'an Kobold and O'Ghomoro Sahagin and the Coral Tridents and the Scarlet Sea Devil Sylph and Moonspore Grove Ixal and Xelphatol, Tinolqa, and Ayatlan Dragons and the Dravanian Horde Goblins and the Illuminati Qiqirn Gigas Mamool Ja The Eorzean Alliance 1 - Ul’dah Sultans and Sultanas The Syndicate Monetarists vs Royalists The Brotherhood of the Sultansworn The Guilds The Order of Nald’thal Arrzaneth Ossuary Milvaneth Sacrarium Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern The East Aldenard Trading Company The Platinum Mirage The Coliseum Bloodsands Halatali The Immortal Flames Brass Blades Stone Torches General Lore History Religion The Ala Mhigans Relations with the Amalj’aa The Mythril Eye (Newspaper Lore) Ul’dahn Timeline 2 - Limsa Lominsa The Thalassocratic Navy Admirals and the Trident The Pirates The Bloody Executioners The Kraken’s Arms The Sanguine Sirens The Salthounds The Red Swallows The Serpent Reavers The Lominsan Armada Knights of the Barracuda Yellowjackets Squadrons 1-9 The Guilds Marauder 1.0 and 2.0 Melvaan’s Gate (Arcanist) The Coral Tower (Musketeers) The Fraternity (Rogue) The Maelstrom The Crimson Fleet Privateer Levies Uniting the Pirates General Lore History Mythologies Legends of Rycharde Mistbeard/Mimidoa Nanadoa Foreign Relations Friends of 5 Beastmen The Harbor Herald (Newspaper Lore) Limsa Lominsa Timeline 3 - Gridania The Seedseers The Elementals Greenswrath Woodsin Wildlings The Pact of Gelmorra The Padjal The Guilds Stillglade Fane The Wood Wailers The God’s Quiver Atelier Fen-Yll The Twin Adders General Lore History Religion The Hedge Figaga’s Gift Haukke Manor The Autumn War Relations with the Sylphs and Ixal The Raven (Newspaper Lore) Gridanian Timeline The Old City-States 1 - Sharlayan The Circle of Knowing Legacy of Knowledge and Learning Lewphon & Roddard Ironheart The Studium The Students of Baldesion Sons of Saint Coinach General Lore History Culture Legacy Island Sharlayan vs City-state Sharlayan Sharlayan Timeline 2 - Ishgard The Holy See The Azure Dragoons The Noble Houses (Valentione, Dartancours, Dzemael, etc) General Lore History “Dragoons” The Dravanian Horde Religion Closing the Gates Heretics and Cultists The Calamitous Winter Ishgardian Timeline 3 - Ala Mhigo The King of Ruin The Corpse Brigade Order of the Fists of Rhalgr General Lore History Religion The fall of Rhalgr and the rise of Nymeia The Autumn War Civil Unrest The Garlean Occupation Escaping the Wall Ala Mhigans today Ala Mhigo Timeline The Rise of an Empire 1 - Garlemald Emperor Solus zos Galvus The Legatus Ministers and Noble Houses Legacy of Allag Meteor Project and Midas nan Garlond General Lore History Rise to power Discovery of Magitek Since the Calamity Why are they conquering everyone? Hatred of Beastmen and Primals Garlean Timeline The Four Corners of Hydaelyn 1 - Ancient Civilizations Third Astral Era The Allagan Empire Meracydia Fifth Astral Era Amdapor Nym ??? Sixth Astral Era Belah’dia (Old Sharlayan) Sil’dih Gelmorra 2 - Beyond Eorzea Aldenard (Western Great Continent) Eorzea = Aldenard Mainland + surrounding Isles Vylbrand Cieldaeles Mazlaya Bianaq The Pearl Ilsabard (Northern Great Continent) Garlemald Othard (Eastern Great Continent “Far East”) Doma Horses Thavnair (“Near East”) Island between Othard and Aldenard City-state Radz-at-Han The Twelve Zodiac Braves – Thavnairian Legend The New World (Far Western Continent) Far Western Continent Possibly Miqo’te homeland Meracydia (Southern Continent) Seas get warmer the farther south Seas get colder farther north Meaning Eorzea is northern hemisphere at about Tropic of Cancer And Meracydia is southern hemisphere, south of equator to Tropic of Capricorn Ayatlan (The Floating Continent) The Gardens of Xarakish The Floating Lakes of Voor Sian Siran The Great Library The Chocobo Forest Eorzean Geographic Sightseeing Lore Dungeon Lore Holiday/Seasonal Event Lore The Disciples Disciple of War & Magic Lore Disciple of Hand Lore Disciple of Land Lore Job Lore & Relic Weapons/Heroes The Twelve Zodiac Braves Encyclopedia Eorzea 1 - Important People Rowena Minfilia (Ascilla) Warburton and Corguvais F’lhaminn and Niellfresne Archon Louisoux Leveillour Cid nan Garlond Nedrick and Millith Ironheart Baderon Tenfingers Mother Miounne Momodi Gerolt Jalzahn Greinfarr and J’moldva One-Eyed Hyllfyrr of the Bloody Executioners Erik of Ala Mhigo Fye, Khrimm, and Dunstan Gegeruju 2 - Independent Organizations The Path of the Twelve (1.0) The Scions of the Seventh Dawn (2.0) Garlond Ironworks The Company of Heroes The Ashcrown Consortium The Adventurers’ Guild The Seventy-seven Caravans Brugaire Consortium Black Rabbit Traders Baert Trading Company The Homunculi The Laughing Alchemists Zer’maat Five The Lambs of Dalamud The Dreamers The Brotherhood of the Broken Blade Azeyma’s Shields The Horn and Hand Wawalago’s Pullers 3 - Books, Stories, Myths of Eorzea The Five Ages – Lewphon of Sharlayan The Divine Chronicles – Mezaya Thousand Eyes Essences and Permutations Encyclopedia Eorzea – naturalist Marcette Manne The Song of Tristam The Enchiridion Thaumaturges’ Dusty Tomes Trials of the Braves The Raimdelle Codex - Raimdelle 4 - Miscellaneous Facts Measurements Distance Time Weight The Raimdelle Codex Hunt Lore FATE Notorious Monsters Mythical Creatures (Sicksa, Toto-Rak, Bismarck, Atomos, Perykos and Thalaos, Midgardsormr, etc) The Tragic Ride of Ouranos Mount Lore Minion Lore Wawalago’s Pullers Fishing Lore Food Lore Food Ingredients Lore Medicines Lore Housing Items Lore Miscellaneous Item Lore Eorzean Timeline Time of the Twelve Age of Man Astral Eras Umbral Eras Age of Calm – time period in between 1557 and 1562 when Adventurers were formed. Morrow with Thine Eyes The Directory Discussions Databases Official Lore Forums Updates Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share #36 Posted October 14, 2014 *resurrects thread* RL: Killer of RPC projects. I've created the new namespace and installed the Lockdown extension (so naughty people can get locked out of editing there without also being locked out of editing the rest of the wiki). FlaggedRevs is a bit more complex and has changed a lot since I last worked with it, so I'm going to review whether it or ApprovedRevs (way simpler and something I use professionally all the time) is a better choice. FlaggedRevs does have some cool features for rating the quality of revisions, though. Soon, I'm going to create a basic landing page for the Lore namespace, customize the background of the theme a little so it's clear what namespace you're in, and move the existing lore pages over to that namespace. Link to comment
Erik Mynhier Posted October 15, 2014 Share #37 Posted October 15, 2014 *resurrects thread* RL: Killer of RPC projects. I've created the new namespace and installed the Lockdown extension (so naughty people can get locked out of editing there without also being locked out of editing the rest of the wiki). FlaggedRevs is a bit more complex and has changed a lot since I last worked with it, so I'm going to review whether it or ApprovedRevs (way simpler and something I use professionally all the time) is a better choice. FlaggedRevs does have some cool features for rating the quality of revisions, though. Soon, I'm going to create a basic landing page for the Lore namespace, customize the background of the theme a little so it's clear what namespace you're in, and move the existing lore pages over to that namespace. I have some source material coming to my email, ill pass it around for everyone to use when I get it. Link to comment
Maril Posted October 20, 2014 Share #38 Posted October 20, 2014 *resurrects thread* RL: Killer of RPC projects. I've created the new namespace and installed the Lockdown extension (so naughty people can get locked out of editing there without also being locked out of editing the rest of the wiki). FlaggedRevs is a bit more complex and has changed a lot since I last worked with it, so I'm going to review whether it or ApprovedRevs (way simpler and something I use professionally all the time) is a better choice. FlaggedRevs does have some cool features for rating the quality of revisions, though. Soon, I'm going to create a basic landing page for the Lore namespace, customize the background of the theme a little so it's clear what namespace you're in, and move the existing lore pages over to that namespace. Awesome stuff! Link to comment
Obisi Posted October 22, 2014 Share #39 Posted October 22, 2014 I cannot wait to see this. I have been working really hard on my characters back story and it seems like at every turn I find out that the lore is getting in the way. Not in a bad way but some things could not have happened, some places didn't exist, that type of thing and having a place to go for all of this in one place would be amazing. I also agree with others that have said you have to have the 1.0 stuff right along with the 2.0 stuff, because something as simple as being in Bronze Lake can make a huge difference because it didn't exist 5 years ago. I know it would make my mentor very happy because they wouldn't have to always correct me with the lore stuff. Well maybe, it would also mean I have to read and well, yeah (kinda lazy with that). But it would be awesome and I can't wait to see it materialize. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share #40 Posted October 28, 2014 So... customizing the Lore namespace's look has proved to be a bit challenging, because our skin (based off Wikia's Monaco) doesn't work like Vector. (Those of you using the tabs extension have noticed how it's not compatible with Monaco either.) I'm starting to poke around at customizing Vector to get it to look like what I want. I'm in the process of moving the existing lore pages over to the new namespace and creating a landing page for them. I've created a new template, {{Refimprove}}, that works like the one of the same name from Wikipedia and is used to indicate more sources are needed. I'll be adding everyone's favorite, {{Citation-needed}}, and other similar templates in the near future. We already have a {{Speculation}} template, it seems, that I created. (Who knew? ) Finally, I think Flagged Revs is pretty much exactly what we need. People can write lore pages, then others can come in and rate them on different axes (right now, I'm planning on accuracy, depth, tone, and sourcing). That way, people can see which articles are good and which need help. Initially, my thought was to give everyone that right, but now I'm thinking that we may want to restrict it based on good wiki stewardship, such as number of edit comments, days registered, and number of content edits. Thoughts? EDIT: I've also changed the wiki search engine from the built-in one to SphinxSearch. This should improve both the speed of search and the quality of results. Unfortunately, auto-complete on search only sorta works with SphinxSearch in the Monaco skin. *boggles* EDIT 2: You can see what Flagged Revs does to a page here: http://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages/Lore:Timeline Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share #41 Posted October 29, 2014 The Vector skin modifications are chugging along. I need to pull some images together for backgrounds and adjust the main logo size, as well as putting a horizontal limit on the main display area, but the basic pieces are there. (http://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages/Lore:Timeline?useskin=vector shows a lore page using this skin with its modifications, if you're interested. I'm not sold on the background color. ) Link to comment
Olofantur Posted October 29, 2014 Share #42 Posted October 29, 2014 The Vector skin modifications are chugging along. I need to pull some images together for backgrounds and adjust the main logo size, as well as putting a horizontal limit on the main display area, but the basic pieces are there. (http://wiki.ffxiv-roleplayers.com/pages/Lore:Timeline?useskin=vector shows a lore page using this skin with its modifications, if you're interested. I'm not sold on the background color. ) By the twelve that is a blinding shade of pink, is their not a soft blue or purple you can use instead? colour aside thats a great tag. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share #43 Posted October 29, 2014 Yeah, it's rather... aggressive. I really chose the color for testing purposes so it'd stand out. I'm thinking probably something closer to a greyish blue (#c6d9e7 or #c2e1f8) or lavender (#d6c6e1), but I'm open to suggestions. Link to comment
TheWizard Posted October 29, 2014 Share #44 Posted October 29, 2014 I'm willing to donate my time to any area needed. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share #45 Posted October 30, 2014 This is only tangentially related to lore, but... The Vector skin modifications are complete (huzzah for CSS3!). I've tested in IE 11 and Chrome Whatever-The-Latest-Version-Is; I'm pretty sure the new skin doesn't work in versions of IE earlier than 11 because of the use of border-image and some other cool bits that kept me from having to alter the actual skin files. This means that we can now freely upgrade MediaWiki versions without stuff blowing up, and it sets us up for VisualEditor once it becomes generally available. If you want to see the new look and comment while it's "in beta," log into the wiki, click on Preferences in the upper-right corner, click on Appearance, then choose "Vector" from the skin list and click Save. Note that not all toolbar items from the current skin are in Vector's toolbar, but I'll be adding those shortly. I do intend to add Extension:MobileFrontend to the wiki soon to help with viewing it on phones. I, at least, often use my phone to skim wiki entries while playing, and I expect others might as well; Vector is pretty rough on mobile devices. As for the actual lore stuff, reviewers? Anyone? Do we need them? Who wants to be one? Who wants to wrangle people into doing stuff? A lot of people were enthusiastic about this project -- where'd you all go? Link to comment
Sounsyy Posted October 30, 2014 Share #46 Posted October 30, 2014 Did someone say "lore"? Link to comment
Melkire Posted October 30, 2014 Share #47 Posted October 30, 2014 I don't have the time to dedicate to actually record lore and write it down in articles, but if you guys needs reviewers, or just someone to sit down, read an article over, and go "hey wait a second that doesn't sound right what about such and such?" then I'm totally down for that. Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share #48 Posted November 6, 2014 Alrighty. Vector is now the default skin for people who are logged out, and it's the only skin you can now choose in your preferences. Coming in the near future, I'll be removing the old skin entirely, so you'll be forced onto the new skin. If you want to See The Future now, log into the wiki, click on Preferences in the upper-right corner, click on Appearance, then choose "Vector" from the skin list (it's the only option now) and click Save. I've moved many of the existing lore pages into the new namespace and tagged them with appropriate templates. Some of them badly need help, such as The Twelve (lots of what I think is speculation). Also, I need to come up with a new name for player-created things that aren't characters. I think calling the category "Fanon" or "Fan fiction" is rather dismissive, so I'm open to ideas. Back in the CoH days, I called it "Player-created X", where X is what it was (so Player-created Organizations, Player-created NPCs, etc.), but that's a rather clunky name, I think. Link to comment
Maril Posted November 8, 2014 Share #49 Posted November 8, 2014 Alrighty. Vector is now the default skin for people who are logged out, and it's the only skin you can now choose in your preferences. Coming in the near future, I'll be removing the old skin entirely, so you'll be forced onto the new skin. If you want to See The Future now, log into the wiki, click on Preferences in the upper-right corner, click on Appearance, then choose "Vector" from the skin list (it's the only option now) and click Save. I've moved many of the existing lore pages into the new namespace and tagged them with appropriate templates. Some of them badly need help, such as The Twelve (lots of what I think is speculation). Also, I need to come up with a new name for player-created things that aren't characters. I think calling the category "Fanon" or "Fan fiction" is rather dismissive, so I'm open to ideas. Back in the CoH days, I called it "Player-created X", where X is what it was (so Player-created Organizations, Player-created NPCs, etc.), but that's a rather clunky name, I think. What about something like props? I was thinking of the theatrical world and.. I guess, for example a player created organization or town or whatever could sort of be regarded as a prop that one uses for ones RP. Otherwise, I like the look of everything so far Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share #50 Posted November 10, 2014 Hmm, that's an interesting idea, using theatre nomenclature for the player-created things. What about: Prop -- objects, literature, NPCs, and other artifacts Scene -- locations Troupe -- groups and factions Stagecraft -- parent category for all of the above Player characters will still go under Character and SE NPCs will still go under NPC (which will be a Lore category). What does everyone think? Is this, perhaps, a bit too lyrical to be easily understood? Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now