When a player takes IC as OOC.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Though I must ask you, how is "futa" lore-breaking? Unless we both have a different interpretation of the word. Hermaphrodites and intersexual people exist so I am... confused?

 

Edit: Granted you already have reasons to not interact, but I understand why they are confused as to why being a "futa" matters so much. It shouldn't matter, in my opinion. To me it's just as similar to saying transgender people do not exist. Hermaphrodites do not exist. Intersexed people do not exist.

 

I think one of the biggest things is that more often then not people use futanari as something purely sexual and for ERP purposes moreso then it being part of the character. It's not even a matter of being transgendered, intersexed, etc. as it is for sexual gratification. Of course, there are exceptions to everything. I had a good friend roleplay a hermaphrodite on GW2 and she was very eloquent in RPing out the struggles and complexities that can come with it. Even managed to make a very androgynous character for the part.

 

As for lore-breaking...*shrugs* In this game it's not so much 'magic' as it is 'fantasia' when it comes to making things happen. Personally I just let it go at this point.

[Verad]

OP, I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences.

 

Your bad experiences are not indicative of a growing anything, the death of anything, or the need to place PSAs to the effect. This is not a community concern.

[Flickering Ember]

IC being translated into OOC is a common problem as others have mentioned. It is a problem that most of us recognize as being bad but many of us still likely contribute to, even if we aren't aware of. Like godmodding and metagaming, they are issues we recognize as being bad and we don't understand how others can make them. The reality of it is that most examples of these, like previously mentioned, are so subtle that the players don't realize they are doing them. When called out on, they will just deny it. (Although, we also can't always understand each other's thought processes so it is possible what one may consider to be as 'crossing the line' is not something the other person thinks of as 'crossing the line')

 

My preferred method of dealing with this kind of thing, along with godmodding, meta-gaming, and drama, is to approach everything with a nonchalant attitude. Stuff happens and I try not to make a big deal out of it because I'm here to have fun and focusing on the mistakes and problems others make draws away from the fun. This isn't to say that I don't hold opinions or don't have periods where I don't get angry about something. I couldn't see myself sticking around with the scenario in Example B. I don't actually mind paying up real gil for RP, but it's principle that it would be required in that RP that would drive me away. 

 

 

I can't say I agree with OP's way of trying to predict who will be these type of RPers. It feels a little generalizing and assumptive. In the end, we all make these mistakes, and to think that any of us are above them is to fall in the same trap everyone else does. We all think we are right in the end, which is why these things happen. Although, I guess I don't really RP with 'light roleplayers' because a light roleplayer doesn't roleplay frequently enough for me to establish any real connection with their character anyway.

[Kage]

Though I must ask you, how is "futa" lore-breaking? Unless we both have a different interpretation of the word. Hermaphrodites and intersexual people exist so I am... confused?

 

Edit: Granted you already have reasons to not interact, but I understand why they are confused as to why being a "futa" matters so much. It shouldn't matter, in my opinion. To me it's just as similar to saying transgender people do not exist. Hermaphrodites do not exist. Intersexed people do not exist.

 

I think one of the biggest things is that more often then not people use futanari as something purely sexual and for ERP purposes moreso then it being part of the character. It's not even a matter of being transgendered, intersexed, etc. as it is for sexual gratification. Of course, there are exceptions to everything. I had a good friend roleplay a hermaphrodite on GW2 and she was very eloquent in RPing out the struggles and complexities that can come with it. Even managed to make a very androgynous character for the part.

 

As for lore-breaking...*shrugs* In this game it's not so much 'magic' as it is 'fantasia' when it comes to making things happen. Personally I just let it go at this point.

But isn't that then letting OOC bleed into IC? Intersexed individuals and hermaphrodites are real. Yes some people do have -both-. If it's not headed into ERP region why is it a problem? If it -is- headed there then yes, I can see the issue but from a standpoint of "it's not lore-compliant" I don't see it at all.

[Michelleswain]

Though I must ask you, how is "futa" lore-breaking? Unless we both have a different interpretation of the word. Hermaphrodites and intersexual people exist so I am... confused? To me it's just as similar to saying transgender people do not exist. Hermaphrodites do not exist. Intersexed people do not exist.

 

But isn't that then letting OOC bleed into IC? Intersexed individuals and hermaphrodites are real. Yes some people do have -both-. If it's not headed into ERP region why is it a problem? If it -is- headed there then yes, I can see the issue but from a standpoint of "it's not lore-compliant" I don't see it at all.

 

Your statement is basically saying; "There are some people in real life with pointed ears, therefor Elves exist"

 

Futanari as a trait commonly used by ERP Role-Players is distinct and has it own characteristics typically the result of magic or the involvement of a god. One of these traits usually being licentiousness to the point of exclusion of any other activity or the need for constant sexual activity.

 

The current common use of Futanari as a character trait is taken from the Hentai genre and is distinct with it's own definition and is rarely used anymore as it's original meaning in Japanese. Transgender/Intersexed being a real world occurrence. The two terms are not inclusive of one another. Futanari being a distinct character trope.

 

I have not read anywhere that the terms Transgender or Intersexed is interchangeable with "Futanari" the character trope, and could be considered offensive far more than the term "Shemale".

 

Stating that my statement regarding Futa is equivalent to stating "Hermaphrodites do not exist or intersexed people do not exist, is an attempt at instigating flamewars and causing inflammatory remarks when that is not my intention. Perhaps you didn't do it intentionally, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't make propositional fallacies like this.

 

The discussion on what settings I would be ok with having futanari or not is not the point of this thread. The point of my example being how once I backed out of the relationship with this person it bled straight into OOC regardless of any explanation I could give.

 

Second as someone else explained; in my experience every encounter I've had with futanari characters have all leaned to a potential ERP exclusive role-play session. It's unique in that as soon as I steer the thread in a non romantic, non ERP direction the person loses interest and leaves. This is the source of my contention with these characters and not their design specifically.

 

In Star Trek Online I had an extremely positive and excellent experience with a futanari. They fit their species perfectly into the lore, behaved like any other captain you'd meet in the setting yet with an interesting spin to their background. They respected my characters position in the Klingon Defense Force and at no time pushed the ERP agenda. Although at first I was distant the more I interacted with the character the more comfortable I became to the point of being good friends and always striking up an RP.

 

Because of that positive experience when I came to FFXIV and met a Futanari miqote I gave them the benefit of the doubt until I encountered otherwise.

 

I hope that cleared that up

[Berrod Armstrong]

...

 

[OttoVann]

...

 

 

lel...

[Kage]

I'm just going to leave because you put transgender wherein I never put it there to make it an equivalent to Intersex or Hermaphrodites and that is not the relationship whatsoever to it. For you to think so tells me a lot.

 

Edit for clarification.

[Faye]

I'm just going to leave because you put transgender wherein I never put it there and it has no relation whatsoever to it. For you to think so tells me a lot.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying... your post did indeed include the term "transgender people?" o_O

 

But, uh. Back to the less confusing original post. This isn't a new epidemic and I have probably a light novel of examples I've encountered myself. As others have said, communication is key. Often blurring IC/OOC can be done unintentionally, it's a miscommunication or the role-player is newer and doesn't realize it's taboo or really know yet how to make a character independent from themselves. To some newer/younger players RP isn't about making a separate character, it's about inserting yourself into the game as an attractive, bad-ass person with cat ears, so they don't even really understand what role-play is to most of the community. If you talk to them about the problem and nothing changes, then, well... that's how you know who to avoid.

[Michelleswain]

 This isn't a new epidemic and I have probably a light novel of examples I've encountered myself. As others have said, communication is key. Often blurring IC/OOC can be done unintentionally, it's a miscommunication or the role-player is newer and doesn't realize it's taboo or really know yet how to make a character independent from themselves. To some newer/younger players RP isn't about making a separate character, it's about inserting yourself into the game as an attractive, bad-ass person with cat ears, so they don't even really understand what role-play is to most of the community. If you talk to them about the problem and nothing changes, then, well... that's how you know who to avoid.

 

And to also bring it back on topic;

 

I wasn't aware this was common knowledge as an issue. Hence I brought it up thinking it was this unspoken hidden thing going on no one really touched on.

 

However this brings me to the issue of communication.

 

What is everyone's thought on OOC guidance, clues, or precautions?

(I call these story guides)

 

"OOC: I think you should be careful with how you handle this situation, my character gets easily offended when talking about her father"

 

"OOC: Well, if you give him the ale, he'll get drunk and may give you the information you need. If you punch him in an attempt to knock him out... things can get ugly."

 

"OOC: Hrm, I'm not really comfortable with where this is going. My character really wouldn't fight in the tavern for fear of being arrested nor would they carry out an attack in public. Also I was kind of hoping to role play with my friends here rather than just up and leave."

 

This is in reference to OOC being used in a positive way. My general opinion from feedback I've gotten is that most role players don't like this?

[OttoVann]

Well take everytihng I say with a grain of salt since my RP is so raw and new still (and I make a ton of bad mistakes)

 

But I would appreciate very sparingly OOC guidance in dealing with that persons character like you outlined. Id rather piss them off and try to navigate a situation / make up for it and just avoid a trigger or something you know?

 

Takes the fun away from treating it like actual roleplay. Like with this thing Im doing with natalie and her friends in dealing with shady shit, I suppose she could just tell me who they are and stuff and 'script' out what will happen - but id rather go in blind and figure it out the best i can. That might make me grow as a roleplayer too.

[Faye]

OOC guidance like that is very useful! Some role-players do look down on it, though. There's a rather large group of role-players who believe that "RP is RP" and should have no OOC interference, absolutely not the slightest bit of "metagaming." Personally, I think that's unrealistic and limiting. To get the dynamic story we want and avoid any RP from coming to a standstill, sometimes we have to nudge things in the right direction. So long as it doesn't break lore, break character, or go against believability, there's really no problem with it. Some role-players may get a bit annoyed, but you can't please everyone. Most people will be okay with it, and all of them should.

 

EDIT: Just to add, though. Just because anyone gives you a warning ("doing x makes my character act like y") doesn't mean you should or must heed the warning. Just do whatever is natural to your character.

[Roswyn]

 

And to also bring it back on topic;

 

I wasn't aware this was common knowledge as an issue. Hence I brought it up thinking it was this unspoken hidden thing going on no one really touched on.

 

However this brings me to the issue of communication.

 

What is everyone's thought on OOC guidance, clues, or precautions?

(I call these story guides)

 

"OOC: I think you should be careful with how you handle this situation, my character gets easily offended when talking about her father"

 

"OOC: Well, if you give him the ale, he'll get drunk and may give you the information you need. If you punch him in an attempt to knock him out... things can get ugly."

 

"OOC: Hrm, I'm not really comfortable with where this is going. My character really wouldn't fight in the tavern for fear of being arrested nor would they carry out an attack in public. Also I was kind of hoping to role play with my friends here rather than just up and leave."

 

This is in reference to OOC being used in a positive way. My general opinion from feedback I've gotten is that most role players don't like this?

 

The biggest rule of thumb I think is of you're uncomfortable as a person or if you're not having fun then it's time to stop.

 

I'm a lot more passive about OOC communication than I used to be. There are some folk I RP with that we just can't make things work without it. That and it can also be fun to discuss your characters and see what could happen.

 

I think there are ways to handle just about every situation without giving too much away as spoilers or being too heavy handed. You just have to be clever and find them. Other times you just may come across someone that you have more fun playing with when you discuss all the possibilities OOCly.

 

It can also be difficult to pull off complex plot lines without a certain degree of it.

[C'kayah Polaali]

Speaking personally, OOC guidance falls into the "depends how you use it" category for me.

 

I tend to talk OOCly quite a bit with folks that I RP with. Part of that is due to the nature of crime RP: Different people have different things they want to RP, and you have to be careful to respect that. Part of that, too, is just because a little OOC chat can work wonders for setting up some fun RP.

 

When it comes to giving someone OOC guidance about what would produce which effect with my/their character, that's a little touchier. Used appropriately, it can spark some interesting RP. However, it can also dampen RP. For me, a big part of what I enjoy in RP is the spontaneity of it. Too much OOC guidance can turn the RP into a simple "we shall now act out the script we've already agreed to".

[111]

OP, I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences.

 

Your bad experiences are not indicative of a growing anything, the death of anything, or the need to place PSAs to the effect. This is not a community concern.

 

Yup. Maybe just don't RP with that person.

[Jana]

public lewd bordering otto vann diagram of ERP.

 

 

As someone who's never shied away from ERP (when it makes sense in-character), I've certainly dealt with the kind of E/RPer who gets emotionally attached OOC. It can be difficult at times, but I've gotten pretty good at figuring out who will react how by communicating a bit OOC before heading into those murky IC waters.

[Tiergan]

OP, I sympathise with your struggles, because dealing with RPers who are wildly mixing IC/OOC sucks. It's something that pops up in every RP community I've ever been in and is always pretty unpleasant.

 

That said, this entire thread kind of feels as though you had a very unpleasant experience with some folks and got angry enough to try and rally the RP community into a witch hunt. While I'm sure the people you had a poor experience with really are mixing IC/OOC and were giving you an unreasonably hard time, I play this game for fun and don't really have the time or energy to police other people's RP.

 

If someone is mixing IC/OOC or breaking other flagrant RP No-No's, I politely pull myself out of their RP and avoid them from then on. If it gets really bad - to the point where it is harassment, I simply blacklist them and move on. I recommend you do the same. The community as a whole may be small, but it's big enough where you can definitely find a solid group of awesome people to play with if you look. I certainly wouldn't alter my character and avoid describing people to avoid drama just because of all of this. The blacklist is way more useful when dealing with someone who would actually cause me trouble to the point where I can't even refer to them by name or by physical description.

 

I also can't stress ShayRei's advice on OOC communication strongly enough, not just for you - but for everyone. A loooooooot of problems in RP communities could be more easily resolved or averted if people were less skittish about just talking to each other OOC and having open, polite communication with one another.

 

Lastly, while I don't really judge people if they decide to ERP, I'm kinda wondering whether you're just looking for RP in the wrong places if running into futa is a growing trend or a legitimate problem for you.

[Aldotsk]

I just try to blacklist ERPers because I just don't find it fun and I feel like it's a disgusting subject to bring up in games.

 

It also makes most role players look bad to non role players because non RPers always stereotype us and assume that we ERP majority of the time. 

 

Futanari or not, ERP shouldn't even exist which is why I avoid those benches like plague.

[OttoVann]

I just try to blacklist ERPers because I just don't find it fun and I feel like it's a disgusting subject to bring up in games.

 

It also makes most role players look bad to non role players because non RPers always stereotype us and assume that we ERP majority of the time. 

 

Futanari or not, ERP shouldn't even exist which is why I avoid those benches like plague.

 

Please dont blacklist me ;; We have so much potential for having fun playing video games. ;;

[Jana]

I think there's a distinction to be made between RPers who are okay with ERPing, ERPers, and those just looking to cyber. But that's a discussion for another thread.

[111]

I like to ERP!

 

I SAID IT.

 

However, much like intimacy real life, I believe it should be kept out of public. It also is between characters only and not between players. Romance and Intimacy are a huge part of RP, and the reason many people enjoy it. If ERP is between two character who's players are comfortable with it, and understand OOC/IC separation, then there is nothing wrong with it.

[Shayrei]

I prefer to keep guidance to an absolute minimum.  In the cases where I notice or believe a player is getting OOCly put off or what have you I'll bring up a "I know it's frustrating,  but this is Andy and she's a pill....yada yada I promise this will pass here's her perspective." If they want it, of course.

 

Otherwise I'm with Otto. Let the happenings happen! If the bleeds start pull out the pads and midol!

 

Flipside! If you want the help, or roadmap or whatever, ask!

 

Immersion heavy players that have complex characters or just any "difficult" characters can be frustrating or overwhelming to newer RPers.... or people that don't want that hassle in their RP... its understandable!  

 

COMMUNICATE.

[Crisiet]

...

 

 

^

[111]

...

 

 

^

 

*pats bench* "U want cyber?"

[OttoVann]

...

 

 

^

 

*pats bench* "U want cyber?"

 

Leave elezen to me pls