Realism vs Fantasy vs Then Anime

[Berrod Armstrong]

I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

 

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

Yes.

[Val]

I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

 

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

 

I agree. I have three main characters that I play, each of varying strengths. Cyrus would be considered an average Eorzean. He isn't incredibly powerful, and likely never will be. Despite this, he has high aspirations and does his best to help whoever he can while struggling to pay rent and provide for his lady. That's his struggle. He's more afraid of leaving his lady alone than actual death.

 

Val is certainly above average and definitely my best physical fighter. He is an anti-hero of sorts, though I use the term "hero" loosely as he would never actually help anyone unless he knew he got something out of it or his woman more or less demanded it of him. His struggle is his own personal, selfish desires against what the society he's found himself in expects of him. 

 

Melfice is far above average, at least mentally. I try not to play him too much because he is meant to be a relatively powerful boss character for certain plots, though I have no problem dumbing him down and lowering his power to balance his interactions with random people. In fact, part of his disguise is to act as a sniveling coward when it comes to fights so that no one suspects he's capable of things. He is deathly afraid of what could come of a wrong experiment or what people would do to him if they found out, or what his Mistress could do to him if she simply wanted to. 

 

I'm not against powerful characters, so long as they are at least kept balanced (unless they're boss characters. In that case, go nuts--within the realm of reason).

[Aduu Avagnar]

 

I agree that just regular swords would be fine, but if the guy has two ten feet, massive swords, it's a bit much. And with these smaller blades comes the need, in my opinion, to dodge or parry rather than outright block attacks unless they're well-armored, but then the ease of motion range of movement is limited to the excess weight.

I just wanted to pick up on the bolded bit here.

 

It is actually a historical Falacy that well armored people had a limited movement range compared to an unarmored or lightly armored opponent. In well fitted/made plate armor, for example, the wearer had a near normal range of motion, they were, for instance (if the wearer was indeed that flexible) able to touch their toes, mount up onto a horse with ease, and sprint.

 

That being said, they would be slower, but only marginally so.

[Val]

 

I agree that just regular swords would be fine, but if the guy has two ten feet, massive swords, it's a bit much. And with these smaller blades comes the need, in my opinion, to dodge or parry rather than outright block attacks unless they're well-armored, but then the ease of motion range of movement is limited to the excess weight.

I just wanted to pick up on the bolded bit here.

 

It is actually a historical Falacy that well armored people had a limited movement range compared to an unarmored or lightly armored opponent. In well fitted/made plate armor, for example, the wearer had a near normal range of motion, they were, for instance (if the wearer was indeed that flexible) able to touch their toes, mount up onto a horse with ease, and sprint.

 

That being said, they would be slower, but only marginally so.

 

I think it would ultimately depend on the kind of armor worn. If it's bulky armor, like that one piece that has the helm built into it, then I'd imagine they'd have a lot of motion taken from them due to both the weight and the bulkiness of the set itself. Not to mention, the armor keeps the individual from being able to even turn their head.

[Aduu Avagnar]

ok, yes, but I was assuming an element of logic here most plate armour isn't forged out of a single piece, rather overlapping bands or plates. and helmets tend to be separate. however yes, if you are wearing the armour with the helmet built in, then you are probably doomed to suffer the fate of pop culture knights.

[Aduu Avagnar]

hmm, as for how I prefer my rp, I guess fantastical but grounded in a sense of realism.

[Val]

ok, yes, but I was assuming an element of logic here most plate armour isn't forged out of a single piece, rather overlapping bands or plates. and helmets tend to be separate. however yes, if you are wearing the armour with the helmet built in, then you are probably doomed to suffer the fate of pop culture knights.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant! Obviously, not all armor would restrict movement! You'd be surprised how many people I've seen using that piece of armor and moving just fine in it, or others using helms that would clearly obscure their peripheral vision but can see just fine.

[Gaspard]

Ho boy, somebody opened up the can of worms that is the Anime topic.

 

Well, as far as I see it personally, It really depends on the Lore limitations. Many Roleplayers pride themselves in remaining low-key so to speak (Playing characters akin to grunt level, or, if the hero is level 75, they cap themselves and expect others to likewise cap themselves around level 20), which on one side I can very well understand and even embrace (Because not everyone can be a hero, and not everyone can be a super villain), but at the same time, it truly depends on the sensitivities of it all.

 

To have a bloodthirsty, power hungry villain for a character aspiring for greatness and challenging his limits, in a nigh 'Uber-mensch' fashion as Nietzsche would describe it doesn't make your character 'bad' in a RP sense. It just means that his story will follow an entirely different scope. 

 

It's this difference in scope and perhaps personal limitation that breeds all of this 'Realism vs. Fantasy vs Anime' Argument. Some people draw their own line at 'I can hold my sword, I can swing it pretty well, but anything above that isn't my thing'. Others draw it at 'I can use my Scholarly book to summon nifty pentagrams that can bend the elements.' 

 

Others draw their lines somewhere around Super Sentai Majin Buu one Shotting Mechahitler with a Nuclear Rasenshuriken while Jo from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure fist bumps With Captain falcon to evoke a Hadron Collider collision.

 

 

This line in the end is different for everyone, which is why I generally place as a rule of thumb ; If it's plausible and possible within the Lore, it is fine, ASLONG the player understands that his powers are not to be abused. Sure, some would argue OOC has no place in IC matters, but from a certain standpoint of IC power, you absolutely must communicate and also negotiate with other players as to not just believe yourself able to steam-roll them 'cause you can'.

 

But I'm getting very technical here in regards to RP itself, For the point at hand ; 

 

Anime isn't anime. if you take inspiration from any media (because yes, there's actually some good anime out there devoid of the 5 episode power charges), and do it right, you can very well do it. Also, perhaps as a last point ; To get 'too' harsh in regards to realism in a Final fantasy game is folly. Final fantasy features Primals summoned, creatures from a hell-like realm known as the void, Characters with skull armors that technically should weigh them down to the floor (See Garlean armors), and overall beings capable of intomidable feats like handling the elements and/or summoning creatures to their aide as summoners.

 

That many roleplayers choose to keep it low-key in order to not provoke an in-character arms race where you have eventually demi-gods fighting eachother is quite fine, aslong in that wish you don't begin to tirelessly discriminate against everything that does not fit your 'bill' of logics. That line, is and will be, different for most.

[Roswyn]

 

Others draw their lines somewhere around Super Sentai Majin Buu one Shotting Mechahitler with a Nuclear Rasenshuriken while Jo from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure fist bumps With Captain falcon to evoke a Hadron Collider collision.

 

 

I didn't get any further in this post because I was laughing too hard.

[Lancia]

It might sound odd, and many people might disagree, but I tend to follow "Advent Children" when thinking of things my max-leveled character can do. I don't mean that he can run up buildings and chop them in half with the flick of his spear, but I do think that the FF universe in general has that sort of style to it (especially since Dissidia happened.)

 

I set my character a little lower than AC, since, of course, he's not a 'main character' in RP sense.

 

Granted, if you look at some of the old FFXIV 1.0 cutscenes (

, 0:00 to 2:29), you can clearly see how -crazy- things can get.

 

But then, if you look at other cutscenes, there are some people just normally fighting like someone in real life would.

 

This leads me to believe that there's a very wide gap between 'normal' and 'legendary' in FFXIV.

 

Personally, I think that any character that has ICly fought against the Primals should at least be able to do a little bit of the stuff they see in Advent Children.  Also, Dragoons can jump super high into the sky and rain down like a meteor upon their enemies.  Not normal.

 

And then Godbert.

[Lillini]

I view it as a fantasy, but as realistically as possible if that makes any sense at all. It's still a fantasy because there's magic, monsters, things such as primals etc., but I apply realistic concepts to more "normal" aspects such as melee fighting, for example. I would find it strange if a person roleplayed that they were able to defeat various competent opponents with a regular wooden lance or something. Magic is harder to judge because there's nothing real to base it on, but I'm pretty fine with most concepts as long as they don't seem really overpowered, like a person magically regrowing half their body with no/barely any repercussions on the healer or patient (and it also has to make sense in context with their background).

 

I care much more about type and depth of personality in a character than whether they're powerful or weak when RPing with someone (as long as their power isn't off-putting or unrealistic, such as them being good at everything or winning over my character all the time when my character is supposed to be good at the particular field, etc.). Special snowflakes are alright as long as they aren't made up of them. Personally, however, I am more interested in playing a character that is powerful in one or two areas.

[Vysce the Lad]

I usually use the past installments of Final Fantasy as a guide to how far I should take things in my own rp. Of course I won't have my character breaking his limit all the time or switching paradigms on the fly (He's only broken his limit once), but he does have a special ring that lets him transform/henshin into his end-game armour. It started as a joke, but no one's corrected me so far >.< and I think it's fun. Mostly I just got too lazy to run out of the room to "change" clothes in a semi-realistic manner. Again, he doesn't change his clothes like that all the time, and has only one set he ever changes into. I watch alot of Kamen Rider >.< I thought it was appropriate because while Caen wants to be a hero, he doesn't get very serious and even when he's fighting, it's a little silly.

e8SdLMokUHs

 

I do like to have him take damage realistically. Like if he loses a roll in an awful sort or gets really hurt in a fight, I'll rp the injuries he sustained. There was one time he was even temporarily paraplegic due to some damage to his spine. I might be a little extreme there, but even in a fantasy world, I don't think aether is so powerful that it can instantly fix major wounds like that. If that were the case, I'm sure there wouldn't be so much strife out of the warzone in XIV.

I have an elezen alt that I feel could pull Advent Children/Dissidia style fighting at the peak of his power, but a lot of that, if I ever rp it, is saved for some really dramatic and appropriate rp. It's not cool if you pull out the big guns in every fight, right? Final Fantasy has always had it's heart-pounding cinematic moments and it's cool to see them in XIV.

[Aldotsk]

 I watch alot of Kamen Rider >.< I thought it was appropriate because while Caen wants to be a hero, he doesn't get very serious and even when he's fighting, it's a little silly.

e8SdLMokUHs

 

I have an elezen alt that I feel could pull Advent Children/Dissidia style fighting at the peak of his power, but a lot of that, if I ever rp it, is saved for some really dramatic and appropriate rp. It's not cool if you pull out the big guns in every fight, right? Final Fantasy has always had it's heart-pounding cinematic moments and it's cool to see them in XIV.

 

You could probably pull this off if you want

 

eRzyLNnFaHw

[Vysce the Lad]

Hehe~ I need to make a macro to make it look cooler. But I naturally pop a Fist of Wind or Fire and time it right. Go Kamen Rider Punch-Cat! Now he just needs a helmet~

[ProvaDiServo]

Hehe~ I need to make a macro to make it look cooler. But I naturally pop a Fist of Wind or Fire and time it right. Go Kamen Rider Punch-Cat! Now he just needs a helmet~

*Picture*

 

I'd like to see that in action!

 

I have one using bloodbath, b4b, foresight and AOD.

 

Its always fun crafting macros like that.

[ZindelloTarantella]

 

This clip is in the wrong thread--and the wrong game. Take this over to the Champions Online forums!:geek:

[Berrod Armstrong]

 

This clip is in the wrong thread--and the wrong game. Take this over to the Champions Online forums!:geek:

I've always found a queer irony in that clip. "When everyone is super, no one will be."

"...so no one be super."

"So no one will be."

[Jana]

I might actually make a transformation-macro to use for IC-SMN if I can ever complete my Allagan caster set. ;-;

[Kage]

I might actually make a transformation-macro to use for IC-SMN if I can ever complete my Allagan caster set. ;-;

I'm sure once another person or two gets to 50 ULDAH could run T2 farms for ya.

 

Maybe?

 

I mean. We have the heals. @_@

[Jana]

T2 would be easy to help gear anyone that needs it with the EZ Cheez strat. It's T4 I'm more worried about!

 

In any case, to reply to the actual topic's question I play Jana as a powerful adventurer. I worry a little sometimes that she's going to come across as too powerful when compared next to her contacts, many of whom are definitely strong but don't go overboard with it. I play her as a sort of "Jack-of-all-trades" with Disciple of War classes, and her only Job is Summoner. But this means Jana's at home with a melee weapon, a bow, or a summoning tome in her hand. She IS an adventurer, but she isn't the main character...

 

Then I look at what the main characters are all capable of and laugh. Jana's not THAT powerful; I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

[Aldotsk]

I might actually make a transformation-macro to use for IC-SMN if I can ever complete my Allagan caster set. ;-;

 

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Jana?

[Jana]

It'd be more like

!

What could have been, if Jana had become a PLD instead...

[Jazz Egi]

I read a lot about swordplay and armors and weaponry in an effort to better understand how these conflicts go. My biggest issue is getting a feel for what sort of punch goes into various spells. Does Ruin pierce armor? Does Bio make you sick? Melt your face? Its a bit of a crapshoot, and magic is the only defense my character has.

 

More importantly, just how powerful can a magician get if they are not legendary, just competent? How much is skill and how much comes down to winning the Aether lottery? I am spoiled by tabletop manuals explaining such things to levels that exceed the pedantic.

[Aduu Avagnar]

On my phone so cant answer properly but placeholder for magery answer

[Aldotsk]

It'd be more like

!

What could have been, if Jana had become a PLD instead...

8qMhRONmAT8

 

Your henshin