Realism vs Fantasy vs Then Anime

[Aldotsk]

As my other thread about "What kind of Roleplayer are you", I've noticed Coatleque's mention about anime and I figured I'd like to hear people's opinion about this thread on

 

The other thread will keep going to understand player's values and behaviors, while this thread is going to mostly focus on how we see FF14 as, as if we prefer to RP realistically, or view it as fantasy in Lord of the Rings/medieval fantasy or anime/video game type - where we see ourselves to have considerable powers that seem ridiculous for anyone to have or have unimaginable strengths or immunity to everything.

 

Now, not all animes/mangas and video games have some kind of unimaginable powers because there are those characters that are main protagonists and they just never had any powers and see that characters get really messed up. It's usually the opponents that have ridiculous powers and they have to figure out how to defeat it. 

 

Of course, we surely don't want people to use Omnislash whatevertheversionitmaybe or Meteor or Final Heaven. ...or even Super Saiyan even if there is such abilities in later expansion - or even someone turning into green particles and quantizing by teleporting everywhere and use a giant beam sword to cut down entire Ul'dah. What can we accept to be similar to anime style and what can we not accept?

 

Do you view Final Fantasy XIV as something closer to reality to fantasy? Or fantasy to animated? 

 

Despite that the game is indeed 3D-cel shaped game with extraordinary creatures, and powers like limit breaks and spells given to players with unknown plots that cannot happen in reality, how do you see it? Does this affect your RP experience?

[Lyriell]

I view it more as fantasy since it is obviously supported throughout the lore.

 

However the way I see it is that there's only a minority that is really, really powerful. (You know, guys like Loixouis for example)

 

I'd say the majority of the population in FFXIV is relatively normal compared to the really powerful beings. Yes, some of them can use magic. Yes, some of them have strength that would exceed that of a normal human. But it's not to a degree where everyone walks around as some sort of Superman.

 

So I'd say it's fantasy, comparable to LOTR.

[Warren Castille]

I view it more as fantasy since it is obviously supported throughout the lore.

 

However the way I see it is that there's only a minority that is really, really powerful. (You know, guys like Loixouis for example)

 

I'd say the majority of the population in FFXIV is relatively normal compared to the really powerful beings. Yes, some of them can use magic. Yes, some of them have strength that would exceed that of a normal human. But it's not to a degree where everyone walks around as some sort of Superman.

 

So I'd say it's fantasy, comparable to LOTR.

 

Done in one. There's always going to be the sort of cartoonish side-story stuff like Hildebrand and the like, but it's practically impossible to take that seriously. German suplexes exploding are clearly meant for comedy purposes, not to be an actual thing that happens canonically.

 

Of course, there are people that'll argue over how the game featured it so it was canon by proxy.

 

Game's fantasy. Lore's fantasy-bordering-technology like pretty much every other "classic" FF game. Super modes and Chosen Ones need not apply; Game's got plenty in the main cast as it is.

[Coatleque]

[111]

I view it more as fantasy since it is obviously supported throughout the lore.

 

However the way I see it is that there's only a minority that is really, really powerful. (You know, guys like Loixouis for example)

 

I'd say the majority of the population in FFXIV is relatively normal compared to the really powerful beings. Yes, some of them can use magic. Yes, some of them have strength that would exceed that of a normal human. But it's not to a degree where everyone walks around as some sort of Superman.

 

So I'd say it's fantasy, comparable to LOTR.

 

Done in one. There's always going to be the sort of cartoonish side-story stuff like Hildebrand and the like, but it's practically impossible to take that seriously. German suplexes exploding are clearly meant for comedy purposes, not to be an actual thing that happens canonically.

 

Of course, there are people that'll argue over how the game featured it so it was canon by proxy.

 

Game's fantasy. Lore's fantasy-bordering-technology like pretty much every other "classic" FF game. Super modes and Chosen Ones need not apply; Game's got plenty in the main cast as it is.

 

Yup I agree. If you watch the opening cutscene, I view most RPers as the Grand Company grunts getting blasted by magitechs and such.

 

Nothing wrong with playing a warrior of light, but I sort of view Natalie as an NPC. All those heroics and flashy things are like mythical to her.

[TheLastCandle]

I view it as fantasy, maybe akin to Lord of the Rings, and similarly rooted in realism. Too often I have seen discussions about lore, magic, and everything else devolve into one person or group of people saying something to the effect of, "Lol, really? Are we really talking about realism in a fantasy game?" But the reality (ha) of the situation is that the best works in the fantasy genre don't ignore certain constants of the universe. Something that outright defies physics, for example, is acknowledged as such and a reason is provided for that thing.

 

I think FFXIV is generally good about this. The concept of magick is explained as manipulating aether - essentially the mana that makes up life in other settings - to perform our characters' abilities.

 

FFXIV isn't without its anime tropes. Immediately, Hildibrand comes to mind, with all of the exaggerated expressions and teeth gleaming in his smile. But I feel it's telling that you don't really see it outside of that questline. I view most of the visual effects of physical attacks the same way; they're there to make the skills more identifiable, but Yvelont does not in fact shine forth beams of light with every series of sword swings.

[Verad]

I reject this triad and settle firmly within the constraints of comic absurdity. Hildibrand is canon because the world is a better place with such a canon.

[Dravus]

Realism doesn't need to align with what would be realistic in the real world. On the other hand I firmly believe that every role-player should strive to adhere to any given setting's rules where realism is concerned. We know that people in Eorzea aren't immortal and immune to harm so it's pretty silly when a character charges into battle, cuts down hundreds of pirates in rapid succession and then doesn't even have a scratch in the aftermath.

 

On the other hand fantasy elements do exist and so if a character conjures up a fireball then it shouldn't be brushed off as silly if it's done in a tasteful manner. Ultimately it all boils down to a mixture of balance, common sense and abiding by the game's established lore. If someone can't do that then they shouldn't be surprised if they're called out on it or avoided.

[Val]

I view it more as fantasy since it is obviously supported throughout the lore.

 

However the way I see it is that there's only a minority that is really, really powerful. (You know, guys like Loixouis for example)

 

I'd say the majority of the population in FFXIV is relatively normal compared to the really powerful beings. Yes, some of them can use magic. Yes, some of them have strength that would exceed that of a normal human. But it's not to a degree where everyone walks around as some sort of Superman.

 

So I'd say it's fantasy, comparable to LOTR.

 

Done in one. There's always going to be the sort of cartoonish side-story stuff like Hildebrand and the like, but it's practically impossible to take that seriously. German suplexes exploding are clearly meant for comedy purposes, not to be an actual thing that happens canonically.

 

Of course, there are people that'll argue over how the game featured it so it was canon by proxy.

 

Game's fantasy. Lore's fantasy-bordering-technology like pretty much every other "classic" FF game. Super modes and Chosen Ones need not apply; Game's got plenty in the main cast as it is.

 

Not even gonna read the rest. This is 100% how I feel about this.

[Aldotsk]

I like all aspects of Role-play so long as it is kept realistic to some degree.  As soon as it crosses the line into anime-like unexplained super powers, I lose interest.

 If I see someone wielding two swords and flipping around in full armor like wannabe Clouds, I'm out.

 

((I moved this quote from other thread because this seems more appropriate.))

 

I think two swords is just an okay limit. But carrying like same size or large sizes of more than two (like 3-10) would be a bit too much for me. Like regular two swords that Gladiators/Paladins carry should be considerably okay.

 

I mean look at Gladiator icon. It does have dual wield icon there even though the game limits yourself to carry only one sword and one shield. It can mean that swords are clashing against each other or you can literally use light two based swords. As long as it's not as heavy bastard swords/zweihander carrying two of them and you are a lalafell/miqo'te or midlander. 

 

Also it is possible to carry daggers/kunais while having katana and switch vice versa like changing jobs/class. (But you wouldnt change your clothes vice versa like that unless you are Magical Pretty Girl Sailor Val or Mighty Morphin Power Ranger Val)

 

Nevertheless, my personal opinion on carrying weapons would be two to it's limit as long as your character has physique to support it. It's not anime wise, but dual hand does exist. (In full armor too since LoTR supports it)

 

EDIT: I can see someone pretending to be Musketeer at the moment and use dual wield pistols or really long rifle or double short barreled shotgun. But I am honestly okay with that as long as you don't carry dual heavy chain guns and shoot people. - Musketeers DO exist and there was no actual rules against one wearing two pistols.

[Erik Mynhier]

Also it is possible to carry daggers/kunais while having katana and switch vice versa like changing jobs/class. (But you wouldnt change your clothes vice versa like that unless you are Magical Pretty Girl Sailor Val or Mighty Morphin Power Ranger Val)

 

I actually do change with magical flare using the power of my magically enchanted plot device ring.

[Melkire]

Yes, it's true. Erik is Super Sentai.

[Jana]

It sucks that waist pieces are invisible since 2.0, I want a big Rider belt...

[Val]

I like all aspects of Role-play so long as it is kept realistic to some degree.  As soon as it crosses the line into anime-like unexplained super powers, I lose interest.

 If I see someone wielding two swords and flipping around in full armor like wannabe Clouds, I'm out.

 

((I moved this quote from other thread because this seems more appropriate.))

 

I think two swords is just an okay limit. But carrying like same size or large sizes of more than two (like 3-10) would be a bit too much for me. Like regular two swords that Gladiators/Paladins carry should be considerably okay.

 

I mean look at Gladiator icon. It does have dual wield icon there even though the game limits yourself to carry only one sword and one shield. It can mean that swords are clashing against each other or you can literally use light two based swords. As long as it's not as heavy bastard swords/zweihander carrying two of them and you are a lalafell/miqo'te or midlander. 

 

Also it is possible to carry daggers/kunais while having katana and switch vice versa like changing jobs/class. (But you wouldnt change your clothes vice versa like that unless you are Magical Pretty Girl Sailor Val or Mighty Morphin Power Ranger Val)

 

Nevertheless, my personal opinion on carrying weapons would be two to it's limit as long as your character has physique to support it. It's not anime wise, but dual hand does exist. (In full armor too since LoTR supports it)

 

EDIT: I can see someone pretending to be Musketeer at the moment and use dual wield pistols or really long rifle or double short barreled shotgun. But I am honestly okay with that as long as you don't carry dual heavy chain guns and shoot people. - Musketeers DO exist and there was no actual rules against one wearing two pistols.

 

 

I'm not against dual wielding, per se, but people need to understand that it's NOT a very defensive fighting style and it's not a catch-all. While it's definitely dangerous to fight someone skilled in dual wielding, it also comes with a lot of negatives too. There's a lot less defense to be had with it. That's what I meant =)

 

I agree that just regular swords would be fine, but if the guy has two ten feet, massive swords, it's a bit much. And with these smaller blades comes the need, in my opinion, to dodge or parry rather than outright block attacks unless they're well-armored, but then the ease of motion range of movement is limited to the excess weight.

 

Val is definitely more of a finesse fighter, and he dual wields daggers and waits for his enemy to make a mistake before he commits to a strike. If he fails, then he's likely going to get beat up in a bad way! It's happened more than once. If they attack him, the /best/ he can do is try and avoid the attack entirely or get sliced up! It's definitely risk/reward, or at least that's how I play it!

[Aldotsk]

Yes, it's true. Erik is Super Sentai.

 

Gotta recruit 4 more people and one extra too!

 

Then the circle is complete. Seems like Jana wants to be included.

[Kage]

Val is definitely more of a finesse fighter, and he dual wields daggers and waits for his enemy to make a mistake before he commits to a strike. If he fails, then he's likely going to get beat up in a bad way! It's happened more than once. If they attack him, the /best/ he can do is try and avoid the attack entirely or get sliced up! It's definitely risk/reward, or at least that's how I play it!

I don't know if it's realistic but I read this young adult novel series where they were essentially like "Ranger"s of LotR and using daggers and knives for the most part meant they had a specially designed knife that, when crossed so it was used in conjuction with another dagger or knife, it would be able to catch something like a broadsword.

 

Of course it meant both your hands were caught in catching it but you know... if that was a last resort.

[FreelanceWizard]

I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

 

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

[Val]

Val is definitely more of a finesse fighter, and he dual wields daggers and waits for his enemy to make a mistake before he commits to a strike. If he fails, then he's likely going to get beat up in a bad way! It's happened more than once. If they attack him, the /best/ he can do is try and avoid the attack entirely or get sliced up! It's definitely risk/reward, or at least that's how I play it!

I don't know if it's realistic but I read this young adult novel series where they were essentially like "Ranger"s of LotR and using daggers and knives for the most part meant they had a specially designed knife that, when crossed so it was used in conjuction with another dagger or knife, it would be able to catch something like a broadsword.

 

Of course it meant both your hands were caught in catching it but you know... if that was a last resort.

 

Yeah, you could use both hands to cross both daggers and briefly catch something, but Val uses it more as a way to give him a bit of extra time to get the hell out of the way--plus, as you said, both hands are then caught with that and it opens up literally every area of the person's body to a counter attack.

[C'kayah Polaali]

I'm not against dual wielding, per se, but people need to understand that it's NOT a very defensive fighting style...

 

Historically, dual-weilding is an extremely defensive fighting style. Sword-and-dagger, sword-and-cape, sword-and-shield (yes, a shield is a weapon). All focus on using the second weapon to bolster defense.

 

Here's a good video illustrating what I mean. The Martinez Academy (from which this is taken) is one of the few remaining living (meaning there's an unbroken line of instructors) western martial arts schools, so they know their stuff.

[video=youtube]

[Val]

I'm not against dual wielding, per se, but people need to understand that it's NOT a very defensive fighting style...

 

Historically, dual-weilding is an extremely defensive fighting style. Sword-and-dagger, sword-and-cape, sword-and-shield (yes, a shield is a weapon). All focus on using the second weapon to bolster defense.

 

You're right--I think I misused my wording. What I meant to say is that it isn't a style in which one should just use an all-out, pressed attack like I've seen some do. It /is/ defensive in that you can use the offhand to help parry blows and whatnot, but it does require a great deal of finesse to maintain (as you can see in the video you posted). The way I play Val is very close to what's represented in the video, as I've said before: he waits for an opening and strikes when he's managed to parry a blow or force the individual to make a mistake.

 

Apologies--and thank you for the correction! =)

[Oscare]

An unnecessarily long magical girl transformation sequence filled with friendship and rainbows while everyone else is shot and destroyed is in order, methinks.

 

 

Example;

sinjEsTa6do

[Aya]

I definitely fall into the Magic Girl category! \o/

[Zyrusticae]

I guess I'm the outlier here in that I see the world of the player characters as more of a mid-power "superheroic" setting, similar to a low Essence Exalted game or the more down to earth issues of Ultimates. Note that I say "the world of the player characters;" the PCs are a tiny subset of Eorzeans. Most Eorzeans are just average people living average fantasy lives in a setting where magic is relatively commonplace (how else do you explain those ceiling fans, huh? ). Those with combat skills are a subset of that, adventurers are a subset of that, competent adventurers are a subset of that, and you can go further if you want to subdivide based on access to Jobs, possession of the Echo, and so on. Yes, the vast majority of people are "grunts," as are the vast majority of adventurers; however, the player characters are the exceptional members of society -- the Company of Heroes sorts who can face down Primals, explore the depths of Allagan ruins, and go around generally being Big Damn Heroes.

 

However, just because the PCs are Heroic doesn't mean that they don't face significant challenges. It takes 8 highly skilled adventurers to take on a single high-ranking Garlean commander and 24 to challenge the beings within the Crystal Tower. There's always someone or something more powerful. Characters can be powerful without being unimaginably Advent Children or Super Saiyan powerful. They can (and should!) have weaknesses, mental issues, and an underlying construct to explain why they can do what they do.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with playing a character that's less powerful, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being powerful in the XIV setting. In fact, there's a lot of fun that can be had in exploring the implications of that power. How do you handle mundane issues like paying your rent or going out to dinner (or, Twelve forbid, trying to figure out how to split a check)? How do you best apply -- or don't apply -- that power? What's a real threat to you when you have magical healing, and shouldn't fates worse than death terrify you more?

I'm with you 100%. ESPECIALLY on the point of player characters being the extraordinary .1% of the population.

 

The only problem with that is the fact that NPCs have no agency of their own and thus end up falling to the wayside, to the point where we run into a lot more player characters than we do NPCs, which skews our perspective of events. Regardless, I would say that it is entirely reasonable for every PC to be assumed to be the competent 1/3 of the adventurer class that is itself a minority of the population. We're the special ones. That's kind of the point.

 

There's plenty of interesting things you can do even with really overpowered characters. That power alone cannot solve every problem, and indeed, as mentioned, there are plenty of things out there that are still more powerful. That's just the nature of Eorzea as a setting.

 

I think the End of an Era video pretty well encapsulates what all of this is about. The party of adventurers in the cinematic are representations of us, with all that entails. In it, you see a man throw another man several man-lengths away with a single axe swing. That's Eorzea for you. That's the power of Aether. You can certainly play someone more normal and/or less powerful, but I don't really see the point unless that's a major conceit for the character (as in, the character is centered around their helplessness and potential for growth). It seems pretty clear to me that the lore supports the much more super-heroic style rather than the more grounded LOTR style.

[Kage]

I definitely fall into the Magic Girl category! \o/

Is Aya Nanoha?

 

Listen...

Starlight...

to me!

BREAKER

DEQc0SiBGMc

[Marisa]

Oh gosh, I much prefer roleplaying with 'normals' than I do with superheroes. Pretty much all of my rp characters are always either rank-and-file soldiers, or a train-wreck of a person (Barrett Stormsong's life consists of drinking, gambling, fencing, and fiddling, and he's mediocre at all four). 

 

I'll hold no ill-will against you if you roleplay a superhero, but I'm more interested in the lives and stories of those faceless soldiers who barely get any screen-time.