In response to people taking Primal fights ICly...

[Ritual]

My reaction to people asking me to help fight a Primal IC

 

 

In all seriousness though, this thread is going nowhere and is accomplishing nothing, *disappears to do something worth while**poof*

[Dogberry]

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here again.

 

Nyagi, I'm not going to argue with you point by point. I simply don't have the time or energy to do so.

 

If you're not interested or find the idea distasteful, simply don't come to the events. Don't RP with us. That's perfectly fine. I'm going to host the events and run the story line that my friends and I came up with, and people who are interested in them will come and play with us. You're free to host events that I might not like, too. I just won't come to them. That's OK. Everything's OK. OK?

[Desu Nee]

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here again.

 

Nyagi, I'm not going to argue with you point by point. I simply don't have the time or energy to do so.

 

If you're not interested or find the idea distasteful, simply don't come to the events. Don't RP with us. That's perfectly fine. I'm going to host the events and run the story line that my friends and I came up with, and people who are interested in them will come and play with us. You're free to host events that I might not like, too. I just won't come to them. That's OK. Everything's OK. OK?

I'll just say I love your title.

[Aya]

The OP literally posted this entire rant in the event thread of another RPer for an IC Primal fight.

That's really lousy don't do that!

[Kage]

My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

 

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

 

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

 

To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

 

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

 

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

 

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.

Your analogy is just like mine. In order to critique a meal you'd had to have actually experienced it in some way. You can't critique a whole meal based off its title. Just like you can't critique an RP event just on the title.

 

The only public portion of the event is opening it up for people who are interested. You haven't experienced the event in public. You haven't seen what the RP was like. Instead of leaping to conclusions, why not do the smart, logical and reasonable thing and ask what it's like? There's a word for people who make uninformed assumptions. Might start with an "A".

[Dravus]

My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

 

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

 

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

 

To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

 

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

 

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

 

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.

Your analogy is just like mine. In order to critique a meal you'd had to have actually experienced it in some way. You can't critique a whole meal based off its title. Just like you can't critique an RP event just on the title.

 

The only public portion of the event is opening it up for people who are interested. You haven't experienced the event in public. You haven't seen what the RP was like. Instead of leaping to conclusions, why not do the smart, logical and reasonable thing and ask what it's like? There's a word for people who make uninformed assumptions. Might start with an "A".

 

It seems like we're arguing semantics at this point, complete with thinly veiled snipes to boot. Let's be honest - certain concepts are very rarely done well. If someone walks up to me in the street on a dark night and they stink of alcohol and are wearing tattered clothing them it's fair to assume that they're a drunk and potentially dangerous.

 

I don't need to get to know the person to make that judgement. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I'd be saving myself a great deal of trouble by not going through the song of dance of examining every last little possibility before settling on an opinion.

 

When it comes to role-play, it's nothing personal - if I catch wind of something bizarre or very bold then I'll roll my eyes and move on. I think some people are severely overestimating the amount of time invested in criticism.

 

Heck, I often poke fun at my own expense from time to time. It's fun and when I look back at some of my early character concepts from when I first started out I cringe. I learned from my mistakes though and move forward.

 

At any rate, I've said my piece and that's that. If people want additional insight into my reasoning then they're free to toss a PM my way.

[Kage]

Yet, ALL that has been presented in the event/thread in question is "DO you want to fight a Primal ICly?"

 

Along with "We have a means of making this work RP wise". There is nothing for anyone to even criticize off of!

 

It's as ludicrous as critiquing someone for roleplaying as a Sultansworn. Just on the fact that they said they were a Sultansworn. If we're going to be criticized on as little as that, I can go through a long list of character concepts that are immersion breaking.

[Mae]

My question is: Have you even seen what the RP is like in order to even criticize it? What happens? How it is sorted out? The Company of Heroes weren't Warriors of Light and they defeated Titan and Leviathan. They weren't even Echo-users. They were just lucky as hell people who saw the telegraphed hits or were just skilled enough to last long enough to take them down.

 

It's one thing to experience the actual roleplay is it happens, it's another to just see "Oh people want to go fight a primal? What the hell that goes against my perception of the lore!"

 

There's been many people in-game who like to detract from peoples' RP saying that they were lore-breaking (Non-adventurers' presence in Quicksand, the majority of peoples' Sultansworn RP) AND they have been dead-fucking wrong about their "lore facts."

 

To be fair, you don't need to be a chef in order to be able to criticise a meal. It's also possible to make an educated guess about someone's role-play based on their character concept. If someone is claiming to be powerful enough or lucky enough to fight a major named antagonist and survive then it's pretty clear that they're going to draw controversy.

 

I could claim that Graeham is the long lost son of Livia sas Junius (he's not) and I'd fully expect people to criticise me for it or assume the worst. Heck, even if I pulled it off flawlessly I'd still expect to be criticised because it'd be a very bold move and I'd be opening myself up for that sort of response as a result.

 

...and as has already been pointed out earlier, if people do Primal fights as a 'what if' scenario or in private then that's fine. It's their bubble, after all. As soon as that ends up in a public environment, though? It's open for feedback and critique.

 

If it is done well? Great! I can get on board with it, but the burden of proof is on the ones taking the bold leap and just as I don't get to tell anybody what they can and cannot role-play nobody really gets to tell anybody else what they can and cannot comment on. It works both ways, not just one.

True, you don't have to be a chef to criticize a meal. What you DO need to make an educated criticism of said meal, is to at least taste it. You can't just hear of a new type of food that you've never tried before and decide it's horrible (and cancer-causing) just by seeing it's listing in the phonebook (or Yelp or whatever online thing you wanna use).

 

Which... is basically what the OP did. Saw that some people went and had an event and dumped all over it and passive-aggressively demanding that it stops because they don't like it. Without knowing anything behind the group's lore, disregarding that this isn't their first foray into this theme, and that it's an event that's been well-received by the community in the past.

[Dravus]

Yet, ALL that has been presented in the event/thread in question is "DO you want to fight a Primal ICly?"

 

Along with "We have a means of making this work RP wise". There is nothing for anyone to even criticize off of!

 

It's as ludicrous as critiquing someone for roleplaying as a Sultansworn. Just on the fact that they said they were a Sultansworn.

 

Eh, it doesn't take nearly as much suspension of disbelief to accept someone role-playing a Sultansworn as it does to accept someone portraying a character able to take down a named lore character (which is essentially what a Primal is, even with the angle of them being summoned more than once). The degree in which suspension of disbelief is required differs from concept to concept. 

 

Plus if people can't handle any criticism then it may be wise for them to avoid latching onto a concept that is going to be seen as controversial if they're not willing to back it up. That's not to suggest that they're forced to accept anybody's opinion but at the same time they shouldn't be surprised when criticism emerges.

 

...and not to poke the hornet's nest but just because a particular event is well received by certain aspects of the community it doesn't mean it can't be subjected to critique. Popularity doesn't always equal something being amazing. There's players back in WoW who fawn over a player who declared herself the Queen of a nation that already has a monarch. She amassed many followers and stifles criticism through them at every turn. It doesn't mean her concept can't be criticised.

 

Should it be done tastefully? Sure, but like I said - we're just arguing semantics at this point.

[TheLastCandle]

I just want to say Dogberry is my favorite kind of cancer. It's also fun to say because it sounds like I want to lose a testicle.

[Mae]

I just want to say Dogberry is my favorite kind of cancer. It's also fun to say because it sounds like I want to lose a testicle.

I'm typically against cancer, and I really don't know Dogberry very well, but I'm all for him spreading.

[LoDes]

Yet, ALL that has been presented in the event/thread in question is "DO you want to fight a Primal ICly?"

 

Along with "We have a means of making this work RP wise". There is nothing for anyone to even criticize off of!

 

It's as ludicrous as critiquing someone for roleplaying as a Sultansworn. Just on the fact that they said they were a Sultansworn.

 

Eh, it doesn't take nearly as much suspension of disbelief to accept someone role-playing a Sultansworn as it does to accept someone portraying a character able to take down a named lore character (which is essentially what a Primal is, even with the angle of them being summoned more than once). The degree in which suspension of disbelief is required differs from concept to concept. 

 

Plus if people can't handle any criticism then it may be wise for them to avoid latching onto a concept that is going to be seen as controversial if they're not willing to back it up. That's not to suggest that they're forced to accept anybody's opinion but at the same time they shouldn't be surprised when criticism emerges.

 

...and not to poke the hornet's nest but just because a particular event is well received by certain aspects of the community it doesn't mean it can't be subjected to critique. Popularity doesn't always equal something being amazing.

 

I actually just made an account to make a post after reading this thread, but I'm pretty sure this covered it far better than I ever could. IMO? Criticism is just someone's opinion at the end of the day, and if you don't jive (Much like the criticize-er... Person thing) with their opinion, sometimes you just have to shrug and move on. No matter what you do, there's going to be at least one person out there in the world who will dislike what you're doing.

[TheLastCandle]

I just want to say Dogberry is my favorite kind of cancer. It's also fun to say because it sounds like I want to lose a testicle.

I'm typically against cancer, and I really don't know Dogberry very well, but I'm all for him spreading.

 

 

 

[Kage]

I'm always willing to let DogberryGM temper off more Tom's in Eorzea.

 

Even if they... they... /runs off crying

[Dat Oni]

*Le giant wall of text about not approving of our rp and demanding we conform to how this one user wants us to be*

 

 

Welcome to the RPC, where we don't care if you don't approve.

 

Shut this thread down.

[BumblingSeaBiscuit]

[align=center][/align]

 

 

For real, though, wow.

[TheLastCandle]

[Dat Oni]

[Kage]

We've officially hit the point of no return!

 

I'd like to say, admin left so fast They're not on to deal with the spam??

[Dravus]

Let's strive to avoid getting another thread locked due to thinly veiled insults and image spam, eh?

[PrinceOfPaste]

 

Seriously OP...you rant in another thread about this topic and you go and make a thread about it because your feelings are hurt and you need people to back you up. GG.

[TheLastCandle]

 

 

Seriously OP...you rant in another thread about this topic and you go and make a thread about it because your feelings are hurt and you need people to back you up. GG.

 

If that was really the intent, it backfired pretty spectacularly, didn't it?

[Dravus]

You don't have to agree with the OP's rant. Though nobody gets to dictate how somebody else feels about a particular concept. Was it tasteless posting a rant in an event thread? Maybe so, but it's not more tasteless than the not-so-subtle snipes being directed at anyone who attempts to play the role of devil's advocate and point out that things aren't so black and white in a community made up of all sorts of different posters from various different backgrounds and communities that do things differently.

 

If people want to salvage things and turn this back into a constructive debate, that'd be great - if not, maybe it'd be best to avoid the image/meme spam?

[Dogberry]

I haven't loved a thread so much since The Christmas Miracle.

[Dat Oni]

Seriously OP...you rant in another thread about this topic and you go and make a thread about it because your feelings are hurt and you need people to back you up. GG.

 

He's right. 

 

This entire thread is a waste of time.