On Age

[Edvyn]

The -main- issue of this thread are the moments where an RP under-18 character would do things that the RL current societies view as taking advantage of minors. Eorzea is not the real world.

 

Lore-wise, the laws of the real world might not apply but they do apply to the game as a whole, it would not be allowed in most regions otherwise.

 

Shall we start policing alcohol statements and character deaths IC character deaths?

this is not a valid comparison

[Renee Becquerel]

I'm going to point out that committing an act of simulated sexual acts with a minor (including the representation of said acts via text) is a specific crime in many US states, Canada, and much of Europe in ways that read very much along the lines of item 39-13-529 of the Tennessee penal code (you get the best one Google could find because my Lexis account is expired).

 

If you are over 18 and committing a like act with a minor, that is inarguably, if nothing else, corruption of a minor and that is a problem.

 

Now I'm going to add something to this I'm going to hate myself for but, hey, conviction is a thing that exists.  It is my personal opinion that if two consenting adults want to ERP (in private) in a way that violates what would be certain social or legal boundaries in real life but are not in fact violations of those boundaries because the players of those characters are adults?  Well, man, I might think it's reprehensible, I might think it's suggesting of some worrying traits that I definitely wouldn't want people near me displaying, but consenting adults are allowed to do things in private and I'm not going to say you can't do it.

 

Just don't do it near me.

 

So there's my two cents that I feel compelled to contribute for reasons I'm going to be cleaning up over the next few days.

[Enzo]

Lol this thread has become toxic. Fun read though. The only tidbit I can add is I think sexually related activities oriented towards a character and towards a player are different. Regardless of what the law is. Although the law is there and should be respected for the safety of those vulnerable to it. I also do not feel like it is entirely the responsibility of the adult to dumb down their role play on FFXIV just because minors play it. FFXIV is a massively multiplayer MMORPG and if a minor or their parents can't handle the environment that creates with rules or not, they probably shouldn't be playing a MMORPG to begin with. But I mean I grew up on WoW's moonguard as a kid.

[Faye]

Lol this thread has become toxic. Fun read though. The only tidbit I can add is I think sexually related activities oriented towards a character and towards a player are different. Regardless of what the law is. Although the law is there and should be respected for the safety of those vulnerable to it. I also do not feel like it is entirely the responsibility of the adult to dumb down their role play on FFXIV just because minors play it. FFXIV is a massively multiplayer MMORPG and if a minor or their parents can't handle the environment that creates with rules or not, they probably shouldn't be playing a MMORPG to begin with. But I mean I grew up on WoW's moonguard as a kid.

 

I don't think making RP kid friendly was really mentioned here, aside from in the form of not ERPing with a RL minor, which seems like it should be a no-brainer (though apparently isn't for some).

[Kage]

What is happening, is preaching to the choir. I highly doubt that any of the people on RPC are actually going to start ERP sessions with a minor player. At most one hypothetical about maybe it happening with a minor IC character, but most here already advocate "ERP with people you know" and with a minor -character- almost all of that is already done in private, in party chats or what have you with stupid occasional MT most likely.

 

Don't stick a character into crazy if you think it's crazy

 

 

It's like everybody but me is experiencing public ERP with the way you want to describe it.

 

Characters and people talk about illegal crap all the time. I'm not saying I might not find some of it distasteful but if I don't like that some people are talking about doing drugs OOCly or ICly, I just walk away or deal with it ICly. No one wants to or will be the RP police of finding out "that player is a MINOR! they shouldn't be getting engaged with this" and "that guy is 52 years of age and he's with one!"

 

There was in fact the one OP mention of perhaps finding a way for characters to be identified by age (either/both character or player age). People are going to lie if they want to or need to. For the years until I was 14 I lied on all the sites about my age to register or get email addresses. And then I also spent years lying about my age about how I wasn't a minor so that I could watch/read some more smutty things.

[Edvyn]

I also do not feel like it is entirely the responsibility of the adult to dumb down their role play on FFXIV just because minors play it. FFXIV is a massively multiplayer MMORPG and if a minor or their parents can't handle the environment that creates with rules or not, they probably shouldn't be playing a MMORPG to begin with.

it's the kid's fault im a sick fuck officer not mine it's not MY fault if these kids just can't HANDLE me (cos i sure can handle them HEH HEH HEH)

 

But I mean I grew up on WoW's moonguard as a kid.

im so sorry

[Gabineaux]

If you had kids, would you want them exposed to this kind of thing? Biology aside, we are living in the year 2015 and there are laws. Sure you can examine why you are uncomfortable but honestly you should be uncomfortable. If it's not the age that makes you uncomfortable, let it be the law that makes you uncomfortable. How would you feel, knowing your children were online and being mentally violated? Sure you can twist it any way you like to make yourself comfortable, but the bottom line is it is illegal. 

 

 

Consider your uncomfortable feeling biology, too. I'd like to think we've evolved with a fear of prison. I don't need to say why. The natural uncomfortable feeling of 'do I want to risk my entire life and well-being over a fictional fantasy world'? That's a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to be uncomfortable about.

 

BUT CLEMENT! WE NEED PROOF! WE NEED PROOF THAT THE LAWS ARE BEING ENFORCED!

Very well then. Keep in mind that these cases are under reported and not as detailed simply to defend the identities of children. It's difficult for me to even find these urls and they might be considered flimsy by some.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/04/blizzard-to-patrol-moon-guards-goldshire-for-harassment-erotic/

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/17/blizzard-disbands-extreme-erotic-roleplaying-guild/

 

I know, I know, there are no exact cases and names here. But big soulless corporations like blizzard do not pull this kind of shit unless people are making a lot of noise about it. And legally they can give the police all the information they need when one of these cases does pop up in court. Logs are, in fact, kept. I would honestly laugh if squeenix didn't keep logs of what we're up to. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. Would you want to risk it?

 

http://www.geek.com/games/drug-dealer-flees-police-only-to-be-caught-in-world-of-warcraft-1041412/

 

I can tell you that if squeenix were presented with a subpoena they would be required by law to comply. You should be uncomfortable. You should be careful with what you are doing online. You should absolutely make an effort to not involve yourself with this kind of roleplay, EVEN IF IT LIMITS OTHER ROLEPLAYERS. What is worth more to you? Someone feeling left out? Or you being in prison, being permanently branded a sex offender and losing everything?

[Faye]

If you had kids, would you want them exposed to this kind of thing? Biology aside, we are living in the year 2015 and there are laws. Sure you can examine why you are uncomfortable but honestly you should be uncomfortable. If it's not the age that makes you uncomfortable, let it be the law that makes you uncomfortable. How would you feel, knowing your children were online and being mentally violated? Sure you can twist it any way you like to make yourself comfortable, but the bottom line is it is illegal. 

 

 

Consider your uncomfortable feeling biology, too. I'd like to think we've evolved with a fear of prison. I don't need to say why. The natural uncomfortable feeling of 'do I want to risk my entire life and well-being over a fictional fantasy world'? That's a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to be uncomfortable about.

 

BUT CLEMENT! WE NEED PROOF! WE NEED PROOF THAT THE LAWS ARE BEING ENFORCED!

Very well then. Keep in mind that these cases are under reported and not as detailed simply to defend the identities of children. It's difficult for me to even find these urls and they might be considered flimsy by some.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/04/blizzard-to-patrol-moon-guards-goldshire-for-harassment-erotic/

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/17/blizzard-disbands-extreme-erotic-roleplaying-guild/

 

I know, I know, there are no exact cases and names here. But big soulless corporations like blizzard do not pull this kind of shit unless people are making a lot of noise about it. And legally they can give the police all the information they need when one of these cases does pop up in court. Logs are, in fact, kept. I would honestly laugh if squeenix didn't keep logs of what we're up to. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. Would you want to risk it?

 

http://www.geek.com/games/drug-dealer-flees-police-only-to-be-caught-in-world-of-warcraft-1041412/

 

I can tell you that if squeenix were presented with a subpoena they would be required by law to comply. You should be uncomfortable. You should be careful with what you are doing online. You should absolutely make an effort to not involve yourself with this kind of roleplay, EVEN IF IT LIMITS OTHER ROLEPLAYERS. What is worth more to you? Someone feeling left out? Or you being in prison, being permanently branded a sex offender and losing everything?

 

I'm a little confused whether you're referring to the character being 16, the player potentially being 16, or maybe addressing both? Most people asking him why it makes him uncomfortable were referring to the character being sixteen, not the player. Role-playing a fictional character that's a minor in potentially adult situations isn't necessarily illegal in most places, and where it is it's somewhat of a grey area and disputed as extreme censorship.

[111]

If you had kids, would you want them exposed to this kind of thing? Biology aside, we are living in the year 2015 and there are laws. Sure you can examine why you are uncomfortable but honestly you should be uncomfortable. If it's not the age that makes you uncomfortable, let it be the law that makes you uncomfortable. How would you feel, knowing your children were online and being mentally violated? Sure you can twist it any way you like to make yourself comfortable, but the bottom line is it is illegal. 

 

 

Consider your uncomfortable feeling biology, too. I'd like to think we've evolved with a fear of prison. I don't need to say why. The natural uncomfortable feeling of 'do I want to risk my entire life and well-being over a fictional fantasy world'? That's a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to be uncomfortable about.

 

BUT CLEMENT! WE NEED PROOF! WE NEED PROOF THAT THE LAWS ARE BEING ENFORCED!

Very well then. Keep in mind that these cases are under reported and not as detailed simply to defend the identities of children. It's difficult for me to even find these urls and they might be considered flimsy by some.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/04/blizzard-to-patrol-moon-guards-goldshire-for-harassment-erotic/

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/17/blizzard-disbands-extreme-erotic-roleplaying-guild/

 

I know, I know, there are no exact cases and names here. But big soulless corporations like blizzard do not pull this kind of shit unless people are making a lot of noise about it. And legally they can give the police all the information they need when one of these cases does pop up in court. Logs are, in fact, kept. I would honestly laugh if squeenix didn't keep logs of what we're up to. Maybe they don't. Maybe they do. Would you want to risk it?

 

http://www.geek.com/games/drug-dealer-flees-police-only-to-be-caught-in-world-of-warcraft-1041412/

 

I can tell you that if squeenix were presented with a subpoena they would be required by law to comply. You should be uncomfortable. You should be careful with what you are doing online. You should absolutely make an effort to not involve yourself with this kind of roleplay, EVEN IF IT LIMITS OTHER ROLEPLAYERS. What is worth more to you? Someone feeling left out? Or you being in prison, being permanently branded a sex offender and losing everything?

 

I'm a little confused whether you're referring to the character being 16, the player potentially being 16, or maybe addressing both? Most people asking him why it makes him uncomfortable were referring to the character being sixteen, not the player. Role-playing a fictional character that's a minor in potentially adult situations isn't necessarily illegal in most places, and where it is it's somewhat of a grey area and disputed as extreme censorship.

 

It's gross though.

[Faye]

It's gross though.

 

It could very well be! Plenty of gross things are entirely legal, for better or for worse.

[Gabineaux]

Both, really. When you think of the type of person who is going to RP a 16 year old in a tavern trying to catch a one night stand, what kind of person do you think of? A 50 something trying to play out a fetish? A 16 year old just roleplaying their age? Does it matter? Why risk it at all.

 

 

I can see this being an extreme censorship if it were in a written, published novel, or any other type of media. However, this is online and in real time. A parent isn't realistically going to be over their child's shoulder while they are RPing, while they may be in the room when an episode of south park comes on. Above all, children cannot consent. Although, there have been publicly known cases of children doing bad things online (such as posing in pictures) and being tried as adults. Children are being charged with distributing child pornography. Let that sink in for a moment, especially if you are under age. You erping someone, could potentially turn into you being branded a sex offender if you are tried as an adult.

 

I'm not trying to attack you Faye, 9/10 I agree with everything you post. But if a case of exposing a child to pornography pops up in court, that person's defence turns into 'extreme censorship'? That will not fly. The judge will not buy that. That person is going to jail. That person's family will never think of them the same way again. That person's significant other might agree with 'extreme censorship' but no court of law will take that into consideration.

 

This issue is too big to sweep under the rug with biology, or letting people feel included. This isn't an issue for people to pat one another on the shoulder and say 'it's ok, don't feel uncomfortable friend'. People should be uncomfortable. This is an issue to feel uncomfortable about.

 

I'll add this, though. If you are an adult RPing an under age character and you're not involved in anything sexual at all? Report the people who are harassing you to squeenix. I know that it happens. I know that people are out there looking for under age characters. It is very important to have your voice heard. Like I said, this is a big deal. Fantasy or not, this is where IC can bite you in the ass OOC and in a very big way.

[Imo]

Let's not act like teens are chaste angels. Teenagers have sex, they smoke, they drink alcohol. Some of them even say bad words! Not all of them, obviously, but many. And it's not gross, it's normal. If people want to roleplay sexual situations with their teenage characters, then as long as both players are 18 or older, they're fine to do so.

[Faye]

Let's not act like teens are chaste angels. Teenagers have sex, they smoke, they drink alcohol. Some of them even say bad words! Not all of them, obviously, but many. And it's not gross, it's normal. If people want to roleplay sexual situations with their teenage characters, then as long as both players are 18 or older, they're fine to do so.

 

Those are my thoughts, basically.

 

But I do fully understand where you're coming from, Clement! If there's any chance at all the person behind the screen is a minor, absolutely, stay far away from that.

[111]

I mean.

 

I think it's just better not to go down that road. As Faye and others say, it's not wrong or harmful within a certain context.

 

Romeo and Juliet were minors for example.

 

But it's just not really wise or safe in RP, when you could be fucking up some 14 year old with some strange sexual or otherwise adult RP stuff. Or if you are reported, end up in jail.

 

Obviously the person playing the 40 year old highlander could be a minor as well, but idk, just seems safest to stay away from the kiddos IC and OOC.

[Imo]

I think people who look for ERP with their underage characters have a higher chance to be creepy neckbeards rather than teenagers in real life. A teenager looking for ERP will be more likely to play an adult character.

[Faye]

I think people who look for ERP with their underage characters have a higher chance to be creepy neckbeards rather than teenagers in real life. A teenager looking for ERP will be more likely to play an adult character.

 

I think it's 50/50. A lot of teenagers I know play characters the same age as themselves, while many others opt for adult characters (usually "adult" them to is like 19, though--which as 22-year-old who feels nothing like an adult is precious). I know that as a teen, I did both.

[Gabineaux]

Let's not act like teens are chaste angels. Teenagers have sex, they smoke, they drink alcohol. Some of them even say bad words! Not all of them, obviously, but many. And it's not gross, it's normal. If people want to roleplay sexual situations with their teenage characters, then as long as both players are 18 or older, they're fine to do so.

 

Of course they're not. But do you want to go to prison in real life? Are you sure that it is legal in your state, where you live, even if both parties are 18 ooc? In the province I live in, in the country I live in, even if you are over 18 and writing things like that you can face charges.

[Imo]

Actually, I live in a place where the age of consent is 15, so I'm good. Not that I ERP. A few of my characters had sexual relations, but it always faded to black.

 

It's less about doing that myself and more about thinking if other people doing it are wrong. And I don't think they are. It's their choice.

 

I think it's 50/50. A lot of teenagers I know play characters the same age as themselves, while many others opt for adult characters (usually "adult" them to is like 19, though--which as 22-year-old who feels nothing like an adult is precious). I know that as a teen, I did both.

 

What's even more precious is when teens think that being in your late twenties means you're old.

[Vysce the Lad]

Freelance-sama! Quick! Shut it down >.

[sforze]

In the same vein as what Clement is saying, this Wikipedia article (linked to the particularly relevant section on Second Life/WoW) strikes especially relevant in the last paragraph --

 

 In 2007, World of Warcraft banned the player organization “Abhorrent Taboo”, because the organization allowed players/characters to engage sexually with role-playing children and real children. (Duranske 2007).

 

You can make your case however you like for adults (or people you think might be an adult) mashing simulated teen genitals together, but ultimately I have a feeling that if this were brought to Square's attention in any major capacity, they wouldn't want much to do with it, either.

 

Yes, teenagers lie -- I lied online when I was younger and I'm sure most others here did, too. However, as adults in the situation, it's our responsibility to assess our actions as adults, which also means we assume 100% of the risk in the matter, even if the risk seems very small. It's up to each player to decide what that means for them.

[Faye]

What's even more precious is when teens think that being in your late twenties means you're old.

 

I used to think that.

 

 

 

 

 

...I still think that.

 

 

 

 

 

I'msooldomg.

[Val]

What's even more precious is when teens think that being in your late twenties means you're old.

 

Wait, you mean we're not?

 

Wheeeee~

[Jana]

Actually, I live in a place where the age of consent is 15, so I'm good.

 

Generally speaking, you both have to be over the legal age of where both parties live to be okay. If you ERPed with a 16 year old but they lived in a state where the legal age is 17, you're still breaking the law. This is why we usually go with 18, since there really aren't places where the legal age will be higher than that.

[myahele]

I think some one and their FC in Gilgamesh got into big trouble due to erping with a minor

[Imo]

Actually, I live in a place where the age of consent is 15, so I'm good.

 

Generally speaking, you both have to be over the legal age of where both parties live to be okay. If you ERPed with a 16 year old but they lived in a state where the legal age is 17, you're still breaking the law. This is why we usually go with 18, since there really aren't places where the legal age will be higher than that.

 

I'm not talking about ERP with a 16-year old player, but with a 16-year old character played by an adult player. The laws get muddier on this one. But it's a moot point anyway, because, like I said:

1. I don't ERP.

2. I'm not talking whether it's legal. I'm talking whether I find it morally wrong. Which I don't. Is it creepy? Sometimes. But a lot of stuff people do is creepy.