LadyRochester

This is a sensible perspective, wit is technically influenced and defined by culture. I must ask, however, would this not imply that no matter how incompetent or idiotic you are, someone out there thinks of you as intelligent? If you think of it, nearly every personality/mental trait can be malleable enough to be bent by the audience's perspective. But how seriously can one take a player who claims their character is a genius and then goes around saying, like the example I have given before, "cats are reptiles"? Would they not be shunned by the community based on the fact people see an IC/OOC dissonance? How is that something better or fair for the roleplayer?

It was a mere example. I'll give you a more realistic one. This character called him/herself a "strategic genius". However, all the "strategies" he came up with were often extremely reckless and stupid. Instead of sneaking into an enemy camp, they wanted to storm in and rescue their friends while murdering everyone there. My character has a weakness to aether--First thing this person did? Send her off to the likes of Mor Dhona, of course. Kill enemies? Blow up a bomb at our home to send them off. This person had ideas like this--And referred to him/herself as a "strategic genius"

Yes, I will admit that I bit off more than I could chew when it came to the initial phrasing. And while I can see from your perspective and I think intelligence can easily be improved, I still think a character is more defined by how others perceive them, not how the player itself intends to play them. To some, my character is highly intelligent, to others, she's a cowardly idiot who hides behind others like a mouse. If someone icly or oocily thinks my character is stupid, I will not scoff at them and say "BUT SHE'S A GENIUS." At best, I'll ask them why and improve based on their criticism. You cannot force others to think your character is funny or witty because they are highly subjective and flexible concepts, but if nobody ever laughs at your jokes and you get angry because of that, it's your problem. You're not improving. People are too sensitive about criticism. I get annoyed at roleplayers who claim their characters are highly intelligent, and then proceed to do stupid things expecting no-one to rise an eyebrow. I phrased things incorrectly and presented myself as a judge for intelligence-Something I am not. I am, however, someone who gets deeply annoyed when there's a huge IC/OOC dissonance when it comes to the perception of a character.

I have a problem with the "non-genius" character outsmarts a genius theory. Every character is capable of displaying a certain level of intelligence and wit, based on the player of said character being able to adequately display that intelligence. That said, people are also capable of playing characters who are 'less intelligent or knowledgeable' than they personally are about certain subjects. As an audience, I can perceive a character to be more or less intelligent than they actually are. However, as a player, if I'm going out of my way to 'outstrip' a character who claims to be a genius when my character would clearly have no idea what this other character is talking about, that's akin to me trying to deliberately shut that individual down with OOC information. A good example is my character Liviana. If someone was talking to Liviana, and the subject of aether suddenly came up in the conversation, despite the fact that I've read about the different types of aether, and the common methods of utilizing aether for magic in game, Liviana has no idea about the details of such. Say that someone tells her that expelling aether from inside the body is the way to practice arcanima. I'm aware that the method they're talking about using isn't arcanima, but thaumaturgy. I know this, from past RP experience, and from reading while playing the game. Liviana isn't a 'genius' when it comes to aether at all. And while I can send that player a tell saying, 'C'mon now, you know that's wrong," Liviana has to reply accordingly. She just does not know. I'm under no obligation to have my non-genius character comment on a subject that he or she knows absolutely nothing about. A lot of cases of a non-genius character outsmarting a genius character seem to boil down to that type of situation. Character A says something to seem intelligent, even if Player A knows that the information they're giving is wrong, to try and impress Character B. Character B corrects Character A, even if Character B is meant to be the less intelligent of the two on that subject matter, because Player B knows that what Character A said is wrong. That isn't a case of a non-genius character outsmarting a genius character, but instead one player using their character as a vehicle to tell the opposite player that they are in fact wrong and their character is not a genius. And while this isn't an 'absolute' example of any kind, that is hands down the most common example of a non-genius outsmarting a genius that I see portrayed in the RP community. That's taking OOC IC. That's an entirely different matter. I have characters who are completely ignorant about things I know in the game, that's not the point. My point was criticizing people who OOCily brag about their character's intelligence and wit, only to say something shockingly stupid when they hop in IC. Say, you are playing a "genius" character, yes? My character is not a genius. They get into a discussion. Your character says something stupid along the lines of "Cats are reptiles." ... Just because you OOCily claim your character is a genius does not mean everything they say will be intelligent, it does not mean people will perceive them as such. If your character says cats are reptiles, my character will argue against them because of COMMON SENSE. Common sense is not a rare feature for a character. Just because you tell me your character is an absolute genius does not mean my character will clap their hands and cheer whenever they announce cats are reptiles. Because that's stupid. Why would anyone dumb down THEIR character so that your seems like a "genius"? Are you telling me that if a "genius" character approaches mine, says cats are reptiles, my character should nod and say: "WHOA! Really!? I thought cats were fish!" Simply because I don't promote my character as smarter or as smart as theirs? You can't force the idea that a character is a genius unless you manage to keep intelligent conversation flowing. If you say stupid shit, no matter how "amazingly intelligent" you claim your character is, it simply isn't going to be received well.

You're missing my point. I explained different standards of intelligence and their variables. I was speaking of specific examples where a person tries to push the idea their character is intelligent, without being able to back it up because they can't roleplay it. It's not the player who determines how intelligent their characters are, but the audience who perceives them. If you tell me your character is a "genius" and then you proceed to rp them as bumbling idiots who never do much but talk about how smart they are (without ever really proving it) There's a dissonance. Intelligence is relative to who sees it in RP, but people should not be offended if people fail to see their characters as what they claim they are. I said "CAN" not "SHOULD" Hence why it's open for discussion. The phrasing in the title is clear. I asked about their capability, not if they should or should not be allowed. I see no harm in people trying to roleplay witty characters, I, however, do see harm when people try to shove their "character" down my throat when I can't quite agree with how they role play their concept. People who get offended when your "non-genius" character out-smarts them. I speak of those people. Others have offered good feedback on the discussion, I simply thanked those two individuals for not resorting to personal insults others encouraged.

Ignacious and Nero, I thank you both for providing the thread with sensitive arguments that didn't fall to personal insults or the "Your opinion offends me" spectrum. Bravo. I didn't phrase things correctly, but my point was pretty much to spark a discussion regarding what the player claims their character is, and what the audience truly sees. If a player cannot properly portray intelligence, no mater how intelligent their character is claimed to be, others will perceive them as dumb. It's tough, but no matter how much you claim your character is a genius, if you cannot properly portray that due to your OOC limitations, you won't be taken seriously as a so-called genius.

I brought up a discussion to spark debate, predictably, people got offended because they took it as a personal attack. I have never said I was one to judge wit, however, it shouldn't be difficult for anyone with half a brain to properly assess who can properly roleplay a trait. OOC and IC dissonance is easily detectable. It doesn't require an I.Q worthy of MENSA scores to see this. Wit implies someone can come up with relatively sharp responses quickly, it implies someone can offer insightful assessment in a discussion without having to whip out google. Wit, unlike knowledge, is purely reactionary. "Dumb", on the other hand, stands for people who are stubborn, slow, illogical, and in a constant struggle to see from the other's perspective. Mind you, idiocy does not mean ignorance. An intelligent person can quickly come up with an insightful response, while the "dumb" counterpart will take longer and likely only offer a weak assessment. Sure, you could argue we don't truly know what the player does during the few minutes they take to respond, but if a player lacks the intelligence to come up with an insightful response, the response will be lacking for a character they claim is a "Genius". Mind you, this is rare. People can often pull off these characters, but not if they lack the mental faculties. Say, player #1 and player #2 are arguing. Player #1 is someone who is perceived as "dumb" by the public OOCily. Now, these two are engaged in a heated debate ICly. Unless player #1 has the intelligence to come up with insightful responses OOCily, he cannot portray that ICly, because it takes OOC effort to support your character's claims. Player #1 will be crushed by any other character played by a more "intelligent" player. So, the point is, player#1 would fail to say anything intelligent to back up the claim that their character is "a genius". I believe in the multiple-intelligence theory, where some people are more proficient in some areas than other. I believe that someone who is terrible at math can still be extremely socially or linguistically intelligent. Intelligence is a difficult concept to grasp when the possibilities are so vast. However, I speak of cases where one person would be obviously inferior in every area to their character. You can be intelligent and not witty, however, it doesn't work the other way around. Someone truly "dumb" is difficult to find, everyone has a gift of sorts, however, I speak of the very specific case where someone tries to play a character that vastly exceeds their mental capability. Say I were to play a mathematical genius who specializes in Chemistry, and as a player, I have never studied any chemistry or ever been any good at math. If a character like mine who was roleplayed by someone who actually had talent in that area were to engage in a discussion/debate... I'd be ICly crushed. No matter how much I use google, I could never play my character as being better at mathematics than them because I, as a player, lack the mental faculties. I am intellectually inferior to the other player, and no matter how much I claim my character is a genius, ICly, my character will be crushed. This is an extreme case, but people seem to struggle to grasp the concept. This is not a personal insult to anyone (despite the fact quite a few have tried to do so in this thread.) Cute poem, by the way. Displays your maturity like a charm.

Done! I messed up the colours, but done.

I changed it to "Witty" though this also applies to "Genius" characters so many people love to RP. And I do mean dumb, not slow. Dumb. Stupid. Not smart. Someone intellectually challenged. Someone who even if they take five minutes to respond, no matter how great they are, their responses are hardly intelligent or thoughtful. I know far too many characters that their players OOC tell me they are "geniuses" only to find out they are acting like bumbling fools when they are put to the test, simply because the role-player is lacking in mental faculties. Characters who act irrational and emotional when their players claim they are the ultimate scientists who are oh-so-cold and calculating.

But see, someone has to possess wit in order to successfully fool others with their BS. If you're a very good liar or you can manage to throw people off-balance by making their logic spin and twisting it to your benefit, you are intelligent. Ignorant, sure, but intelligent. Twisting facts and bending them so they can seem true to those who are easily manipulated indicates that you are not dumb. People who believe you might be, but not you.

As I mentioned in my post, it was a phrasing problem. I do not speak of intellect or knowledge, I speak of raw sharp-mindedness and wit. I don't mean to offend anyone, and if someone takes this personally, I apologize. This isn't a personal attack against those who play witty characters. However, I part from the belief that unless you're given a script, you cannot fake possessing mental faculties you truly lack. If you claim your character is intelligent enough to come back with quick-witted responses, then you, as a roleplayer, have to come up with those witty responses as quickly as your character would. For someone who isn't sharp-minded, this is nearly impossible. This usually leads to the character falling flat, because you as a roleplayer cannot keep up with the character you want to portray. My father is an actor. He has done all kinds of acting, including Improv. Role-play is a lot like imrpov, because you don't follow a script, it's fully reactionary. He has told me that in order to portray a quick-witted person, one must be sharp minded, otherwise you won't be able to play the part.

Perhaps people do not understand my question. Can someone who is not intelligent, play someone intelligent? I am talking about people who DON'T do their research or generally describe their character as "witty" and then fail to portray this because they aren't witty themselves in RP. I am aware you're not your character. I know this. I know you're not your character. I know you can roleplay a character who exceeds your knowledge. I know this. Like saying, "Heheheh, my character is really witty!" And then emote something like "Witty McWit feels his intelligence is threatened, and at the end of the debate, he responds: ' WELL U CAN'T SAY THAT CUS YOUR STOOPID!' " Could you honestly tell me that's someone portraying an intelligent character properly? Like... Honestly? This is an extreme case, but it seems like people are missing the point, or perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly. It's easy to fake knowledge and "book-smarts", you simply whip out google and ta-da, there's your answer. But I speak of wit. Social intelligence. Charisma and word-play. Not knowledge. You can be knowledgeable and dumb. You can fake knowledge. You cannot, however, fake wit.

Before any of you start sniffling, staring at your screen with foggy eyes, banging your fists against the desk as you cry: "BUT WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE INTELLIGENCE!?" I would like to say that I am asking about people who roleplay characters and EXPLICITLY state they are geniuses, only to, you know.. Have their characters hardly achieve anything "genius"-worthy because their own wit can't quite catch up to their character. In essence, can someone fake intelligence without being intelligent themselves? Keep everything respectful and civil. I just like to spark debate. This is a matter of opinion... Mostly.

I would never correct a typo in RP. Typos are accidental, not out of ignorance. I usually don't correct people unless I think they can handle criticism. I am only deeply annoyed at incorrect usage of words. I once saw an rper make an emote about their character writing on a paper notepad with a "stylus". I didn't correct them, but oocily it made me scoff and roll my eyes, mainly because they used that word thinking it would make them come across as more eloquent.

I personally take no offense when someone corrects me, even in a public channel. However, many people disagree and say correcting someone else is wrong. How are we supposed to improve if we are never made aware of our mistakes? As long as you are being polite and not an ass about it, I (personally) don't see a problem.

Kiur! You and Vincent are up next, but I can't see your character's lips! Mind giving me a picture? ;o

Back off bitches, I'm Edda's #1 fangirl. You can be #2.

I also tried drawing a mi'qote today, mind ou, I only did this because I need to practice their chubby features and annoying ears.

Unfortunately, the work I started on Surien was lost along with my old HDD, so I had to make a new one. It's a simple portrait, so unfortunately, smple requests could not be fulfilled for the second round, still, hope you like it.

I'm only annoyed in this case if they do shit like this and then they make their characters just walk it off as if it never happened. You know, being all casual like: "Oh yeah, I was kidnapped a few weeks ago, I got saved though, haha." Or, even worse, those who do the "false fear" scene for attention, like... "Oh no... I--I was... R-raped!" Two days later, you find them going "Oh no, I was raped!" And flirting with a random dude, using the fact the character was raped as some sort of... "Hook" I'm aware many RPers don't do this, but as a psych. student and someone who has known people in that reality, that attitude is cringe-worthy.

How is your character as a student? What kind of school would they attend? How would they get along with the teachers/peers? ______________________ My character would be the typical student who sits at the front of the class, gets the best grades, and loves to answer questions (Even those not directed at her.) She'd be the typical twat who'd be like: Teacher: When was this person born? Student: 1954 Sasha: Actually, it was April 6, 1954. [insert smug smile] Also, she'd probably remind the teacher of homework and quizzes if it made her look better in front of everyone. As in, if she did the homework, she'd be the first to remind EVERYONE it was due. If she didn't? Well, then she'd stay quiet. Really, she'd be hated by everyone unless they were part of her clique. Too nerdy to fit in the "cool kids" club, too stuck-up and proud to fit in the stereotypical nerd group. She'd probably ft in with the nerdy preppy kids. She'd likely go to a private school and still act like she's above others. You're welcome to say you'd slap her.

*reads wiki* I'd say they'd get along pretty well as long as he doesn't see how manipuative/fake she can be. Otherwise, both seem like they'd at least look like a good couple based on their general demeanor.

Gogon and Sasha? AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-no. They'd get along at first, then they'd snark each other to death, and because Gogon is grumpy and Sasha is submissive and beta as hell, it would be more like a teacher constantly smacking a child's hand with a ruler. I feel like.. They get along as long as the amount of time they spend around each other is moderate.

*Reads RPC wiki* MY character is straight, but if they were married... Hmm... I'd say they'd get along (mostly). So long as they don't have financial issues, they should be fine. She appreciates a sharp mind and a silver tongue, so that's always a plus. So long as she proves to be intelligent and not too problematic for her money, it's all good.

LOL, raging at traffic in Eorzean terms. "THIS TRAFFIC IS HEAVIER THAN THAL'S BALLS!" "Bah! I knew Lalafells were shitty drivers!" *honks horn*