Artigan

Here is Artigan's significant other:

I hope something aesthetically pleasing wins and nothing too radical or "fashion forward" takes the race.

You're more than likely burnout due to your lifestyle and being able to play all the time (which doesn't discount your points). If I may suggest: try something other than FFXIV each week: working out, figuring out a good diet plan and preparing your own meals, trying a practical martial art (Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) Yoga, or whatever meets your fancy that isn't based in a virtual world (granted if you budget allows for such distractions). Yet I agree FFXIV has a major tendency to play the grind game in respect to collecting "tokens" to purchase items, and keeping those "tokens" exclusive or locked to certain dungeons which becomes tedious. The same issues of 2.0 unfortunately are back.

AF 1 and 2 aesthetically looks pleasing, has a practically, and while the color won't be everyone's favorite (the yellow is in homage to Bruce Lee I think) the outfit is in within theme of the Monk. The Relic set however, now that I have had the reference pointed out, is a throw back to a really bad character design to begin with. Whatever, not my favorite. I hope some better martial sets come down the pipe line that I haven't seen yet. Needless to say, AF 2 is going to be my skin for a long time coming.

A tribute to a overly cartoony outfit. MC Hammer Pants with similes on them and curl toed shoes. Great homage. May as well do some James Brown outfits while their at it: nothing screams monk like a body suit. Harem Boys and Girls 2015! :dodgy:

The relic set is a hodgepodge of the middle east smooched together with eastern influences that makes the monk look like a belly dancer with a Chinese hanfu, Arabian slippers, Harem pants, and a cloth wrapped around the torso exposing the mid drift: what-the-fuck? I was expecting something with more of a martial aesthetic and keeping within tradition of the monk's look throughout the final fantasy genre. Obviously it's a subjective taste, but this is outfit is all over the place. I'm not talking about AF 1 and 2. I'm talking about current content. I'm not a fan at all of the leveling gear either: too hobo under the bridge. The weapons alone shows a lack of artistry: a spiked pinwheel?

My critique on the Monk thus Far: The armor and weapons are lack luster and aesthetically are foreign and alien to such a martial esque themed class. :frustrated: Form Shift is nice in that the ability allows the MNK to open a fight up with Dragon Kick and apply the debuff or stay in a certain position due to movement restriction and forgo using a certain stance's abilities. Meditation is not intuitive for the MNK and is a niche ability used before a fight or in periods of downtime when the monk is unable to DPS. I don’t understand why Meditation is 5 gcds instead of just 1 ability on a 12.5 second cooldown that can be affected by Grease Lighting to reduce the cooldown's time, or simply have Chakra’s apply passively through the change of stances. Seeing as Meditation takes up a GCD using the ability in between dpsing will simply kill the MNKs overall DPS. Forbidden Chakra is a rather lackluster animation but the potency is decent for having no Grease Lighting at the beginning of a fight or in-between periods of downtime. The animation is simple to say the least. :cry: Elixir Field, a new AOE, groovy. Looks flashy too. 8-) Purification falls under the limitations of Meditation and will only be used if and when Invigorate is down or the MNK needs TP now and has no options but to use Meditation 5 times. :dodgy: Tornado Kick will obviously be used when the player knows a phase is coming up were their Grease Lighting stacks will drop anyway, granted I haven’t been able to test yet if Tornado Kick will boost the DPS of the MNK if weaved into the dps rotation. By far the coolest MNK ability to date. :thumbsup: MNK overall is still a great class and will do well in endgame, but really falls short in the aesthetics and oomph of something that fights with its entire body. :love:

The armor for monk artistically is so alien to such a martial class. I for one am not impressed. :cry:

The Au'Ra are certainly handsome but the smooth skin and rough scales don't really compliment one another well. Aesthetically something is off, but the males do come off as quite masculine, so bonus points on that. I do like their body proportions: not too bulky and not too lithe. I have no real comment on the females, they look good, but the scales still throw me off somewhat. At least the Au'Ra will look badass in heavy armors.

I'm conflicted about turning my Miqo'te into an Au'Ra.

Hmmmm, I don't know.

Too much chocolate is bad for you and too much money turns you into a rich prick.

Um, I don't appreciate the way you're trying to turn this situation around. This isn't about you judging a product but about the way you chose to do it. Let's start with the beginning: you did open this thread to mock/complain about FF15 characters, calling them names like "dolls", "effeminate", and "unrealistic". To reinforce this, you didn't speak against any of the mockery that followed, which had more unsavoury references to how real men should be. And now you are trying to argue that you have not made or provoked such obvious references, and that your words are the most innocent. Now let's see if I can make my point across, as this is, indeed, a Western VS Eastern thing. I don't think that FF15 characters look effeminate or unrealistic. To me, they look absolutely normal. Japanese media is full of that kind of boys, they are the norm for the beauty standard there. They look effeminate from a Western standard of what a "real man" should look like, see what I mean? So, they're not unrealistic, for there are tons of Japanese celebrities who look like them. Example: And this takes me to the next point: does any Dragon Age character look like them? Nope, not at all. Dragon Age might have a variety of characters, but it's a variety within the Western standards. This is why I don't personally feel that Dragon Age characters offer the mentioned variety, the same reason why you don't find variety in FF15 characters while I do. And last but not least, it's not bad if you personally don't like them, but the mocking tone from this whole thread (from both your comments and other posters you certainly have not argued with) doesn't sound right. I'm a bit tired of people complaining or implying that Japanese male characters are "too effeminate" or "too gay", or that SE should make different males despite the fact that SE is a Japanese company, and they belong to a whole new culture where those boys fit the normal standard of attractiveness. (I don't want to continue arguing, so I hope I made my point clear ;;;. Let's agree to disagree?) I don't have to join any bandwagon or join any group think. If you don't like someone's comment, statement, or line of thinking then take it up with them. I am not the admins, your white knight, or a thought police. I never claimed to be innocent, once again another ridiculous tangent you want to go on to skirt away from your radical claims and delusions. No one said how art must be done nor equated how art must conform to a cultural standard. You made this make believes and non issues up. The heroes of FF15 is a bunch of Ken dolls. Nothing is realistic about a bunch of pretty boys saving the world or fighting armies. Are you seriously using appeals to popularity and media as a heuristic? So what if I or anyone else mocked a game for a design choice? What is your point? Stop having a sense of humor I don't agree with? Alright, clearly you live in a world of infomercials and reality television. You can have fun in that vacuum of West vs East. Who exactly am I suppose to argue to meet your bar? When I meet that bar where will you move it next? I can't debate the world. I choose you because of the logical inconsistencies you rampantly display. Your seriously turning Dragon Age into a "Western" reference and now bringing your circular reasoning round once more to Eastern norms and imagined issues of people claiming what a "real man is." What is with you and turning this thread into a ethnocentric debate, making shit up, and not one of critiquing a game? I have to assume at this point you are a troll or seriously delusional. You are calling the characters too gay and implying so, no one else did. I or anyone else saying a cast is too effeminate will leave me with this final thought: so fucking what? You can be tired all you want at these "complaints." I honestly do not care. You didn't have to throw your dog in this thread.

Anyone from any culture can critique and find faults in design choices. You shouldn't assume an individual is looking at a product through an ethnocentric lens. Not true, from Dragon Age Origins, Awakening, 2, and Inquisition the party, cast, or heroes and heroines have been varied and diverse: elderly, young, pretty, handsome, rugged, beautiful, masculine, effeminate, cute, rough, scarred, ugly, and so forth, and that goes for Protagonists and Antagonists as well. Fenris is not the entirety or an acute representation of Thedas. Stop being disingenuous and misrepresenting the series. You certainly don't have to agree with anyone on anything, but you also shouldn't expect anyone to swallow your nonsense of "don't judge things from your personal perspective." No one in this entire thread said: Western desires or wants are the "truest." No one here has tried opening up a Salon full of snub Persians saying how art "must" be done. Get off this ridiculous tangent. I can, anyone in fact, judge any product, art, or something created for public consumption and state my thoughts on such objects. If I like or dislike a product or art because it doesn't meet a standard that is fair. No one here stated what is the correct way to "art." Are some of you purposely putting up fallacies of red herrings, non sequiturs, and complete irrelevancies, or do you honestly think in such delusional fashions?

I am going to reserve my over all judgement on release, and wait and to see and hear the reviews about the characterizations, world, and plot.

Because I care for realistic casts, and you are assuming that I am somehow unhinged or disturbed by such a pretty cast is an assumption. Stop assuming my wants, intentions, or desires. Their is nothing telling other than what I've said or stated which is: too many dolls. Assumptions are logical fallacies. So stop assuming because you are becoming logically inconsistent and going off into smoke screens of gender normative, inserting red herrings of "Cidney" and "big breasted" and how women are by in large sexualized in media. Take your ideological rhetorical bullshit somewhere else. I have no issues if someone wants to objectify because we objectify all the time; individuals can either do so in healthy manners or not. I never argued it is wrong or right to have this many "pretty people." I made a personal statement and voiced a critique: too many pretty boys. I can in fact have an issue with the design choice without having to bring morality into the picture. I can also have the same issues if all I see are big breasted females as the heroine line up, and say to myself: this cast isn't anything resembling life. It's just a bunch of pretty people catering to sex appeal, and fair enough I am not interested in such shallow games. I used a gender to, shocker, define who and what I was talking about, and once again I used the word pretty to clarify who and what I was critiquing. You are turning pretty boy into a dysphemism and now throwing in ierrleveancies of not using "proper" wording of homogeneity? Get off, seriously, what the "fuck" are you going on about now?

I think it is a fair critique to say the cast is too dollish. If we are going to compare games I would say Dragon Age the series (yes even 2) had a variety of individuals that catered to many tastes. Now anyone can also say, fairly, FF15 isn't for you. Nothing wrong with exclusivity.

Perception, but the normative for a masculine or effeminate male in our respective cultures is going to vary. I see the cast as rather effeminate: fine clothes and jewelry, stylish hair dues that have to be gelled or hairspray to hell, a lack of body hair, and so on. You can equate the word pretty boy to them as well. Nothing wrong with being "pretty" but it has become a trend in the series, and I would label the cast as "pretty boys."

So what? It's a title. Are you really getting hung up on limited character length? What do you usually associate with dolls that is getting you hung up? I guess Ninja Turtles and GI Joe aren't dolls they are "action figures." Lmfao. It's gonna be okay. No, I'm not getting hung up over character length, but you seem to be getting pretty upset that this thread isn't just full of people who are with you on this one, is all. And trying hard not to look upset. I know it's gonna be okay-- I think you're projecting a little onto that one statement I made and assuming a lot about why I said it. I probably shouldn't be posting in this thread since I don't have an opinion one way or the other in FFXV, I just felt compelled to make an observation. Bruh, I'm not even tripping. I'm trying to understand your train of thought. You are the one pointing out how the title isn't conforming to a perceived standard or norm. You are in fact claiming it is deviant based on your reaction. Obviously you are taking an issue with how I titled the topic. So what is your issue? Well, since you asked, I'll bite, but I feel like it's obvious. The use of "or" makes "men" and "dolls" sound mutually exclusive. Which kinda makes me scratch my head when you point at masculine dolls and go "Look! Men can be dolls!" when I point that out. Alright, this is true, so was the implication intentional? It doesn't seem relevant to the point you're trying to make in the thread here, either. Do you associate plastic people with "emo", "pretty boy" and "bourgeois"? Do most people? I don't, but I'm not most people, so. If you feel like people are taking the wrong meaning from what you're trying to say, perhaps consider how you've worded it. This is entirely irrelevant and a personal issue and interpretation. A title doesn't explain much of anything and can be serious, satirical, or ironic. If you don't like it you don't like it. If you're confused you could always ask for a clarification, but getting hung up on a title is silly. Men or Dolls? Yes, the cast is a bunch of plastic perfect dolls. I hardly see any asymmetry, flaws, or realism. So what is wrong with the title again?

Critiques about how the personal tastes from other cultures are wrong? Well, yes... (Interesting avatar, by the way). Did I state they are wrong? Do you make up stuff in your head?

Hmm. I don't think I responded to your original post -- my own post could be considered off topic then. Regarding the cast, I agree there. They are all -mostly- pretty boys. The term 'pretty boy' doesn't really translate into effeminate to me. It just means a man who looks...pretty. Not my cup of juice (that's a lie, I'll take all comers), but eh, I wouldn't avoid the game for it. Well, providing I was going to get it in the first place. The statement I made still stands, though it was a response to another post. They might even be due for some pretty boys with Bara Fantasy XIV over here. My issue is personally I like games were you have a cast of all types: pretty, ugly, handsome, gorgeous, average, and so on. I get it is fantasy, but I just don't care for games that have a bunch of Barbies and Kens as the heroes. It's just a personal beef, and my anecdotal definition of pretty boy is thus to clarify confusion: a man who is well groomed, stylish, and sporting fine wares and jewelery, and shows little to no body hair or scars.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Okay that was good. Do me a favor and check out FF2's Firion in official art (as in the famicom original box art bruh). Or Cecil. Or Bartz. Cecil wasn't the entire cast man, and Edge and Kain aren't depicted in anyway to be effeminate, and Cecil having long hair and purple lips when he goes Paladin didn't strike me as effeminate, but more so eccentric. Bartz character concept art at release didn't depicted him as effeminate, but more so a wander, only since Dissidia did he become some what of a pretty boy. Firion is a pretty boy, and their is nothing wrong with that, and his whole party wasn't some cast that fell out of a E-Hollywood pretty people only line up.

You must hate critiques.

Well, nevermind that the thread title is literally "men or dolls", not "men and dolls" or "men who look like dolls"... So what? It's a title. Are you really getting hung up on limited character length? What do you usually associate with dolls that is getting you hung up? I guess Ninja Turtles and GI Joe aren't dolls they are "action figures." Lmfao. It's gonna be okay. No, I'm not getting hung up over character length, but you seem to be getting pretty upset that this thread isn't just full of people who are with you on this one, is all. And trying hard not to look upset. I know it's gonna be okay-- I think you're projecting a little onto that one statement I made and assuming a lot about why I said it. I probably shouldn't be posting in this thread since I don't have an opinion one way or the other in FFXV, I just felt compelled to make an observation. Bruh, I'm not even tripping. I'm trying to understand your train of thought. You are the one pointing out how the title isn't conforming to a perceived standard or norm. You are in fact claiming it is deviant based on your reaction. Obviously you are taking an issue with how I titled the topic. So what is your issue?

Hairless bodies, gelled or fashionable hair styles, and wearing or displaying fine clothes or jewelry. The art work of the male cast is a line up for cat walk for some A&E reality show. Did you read my post? I stated 1 of the reasons, not all of the reasons, and ultimately is their in an issue of not wanting to play a game full of Ken dolls?