SaintEaon

Last winter I had a spree of shitty days. On the way to work one morning my car slid on the ice, went off the road, smashed through a fence and into a tree so the next day I had to get a new car. Well I bought my brother's old car (he's a marine in Japan and has little use for it) and he failed to mention to me his gas meter wasn't working. So the next day on the way back from work I ran out of gas just outside of work. It was like -10 that week as a high. I got lucky because one of the guys I worked with traveled down the same road and helped me get gas, but still in Colorado at winter I had maybe an hour to an hour in a half before the sun went down and it was already -10 outside.

As someone who stalks Bear ICly for RP reasons, thank you for Rping War Bear as awesomely as you do!

This is a common joke I make in my FC's chat. "Hey Rae, why don't you find female Roe's attractive?" "They're too tall and literally every female Roe has a penis, if you don't believe me spend two weeks in the Quicksand, you'll find all four of them, they'll all either be Dark Knights or Marauders, and all of them will be shemales, futas, or mistresses. Any others you find aren't roleplaying with you." Obviously a huge generalization on my part, and this might be because other people have noted their lore is lacking, but you don't see a lot of variety in Roes. Maybe its not so bad if they're not in the Quicksand setting and with their FC's, but the biggest problem I think is in a public setting like the Quicksand where you're likely to run into them, there's very little difference between one and the other. I don't know I feel the same way about Roes as I do about Sith in like SWTOR. For those who don't know the philosophy of the Sith, I can state it if you want, but its so extreme in the way it expects members of its order to behave that it almost always ensures if there's a bad thing to do you should do it. And while there will always be a few really good RPers who can make that compelling, a lot of people end up just becoming basically the same angsty, rage filled Sith who never does anything interesting because their order dictates they'll always do the greedy/morally lacking choice. Again that doesn't mean its bad or shouldn't be done, just that by in large without good effort it ends up being kinda boring.

I don't see why not. Morality is subjective, if you have bad morals you can be a bad person.

Its hard man. I feel your pain I'm on PS4, got a new PC a few months ago that could actually play the game (my old PC was archaic). I'd rather play on PC, but since I have it on PS4 its actually cheaper to just buy a new mouse and keeping using my PS4 over my PC. Besides then I don't have to alt-tab to watch youtube while waiting for my more detailed paragraph posters to type.

I'll be there

I realize you're pointing this out as a matter of pride, and that's why you don't sound like a fun person to play with. You realize you pointing that out makes it very easy to say what you read here has nothing to do with IC right? Doesn't matter what I sound like here, I've got plenty of RP partners in game who disagree and RP with me every night. Not gonna lose sleep over the occassional person who has an issue with things I do because someone always will.

There is no problem, just making sure. Then I figure everything is cool. The impression I was getting was you were concerned of leaving someone out or being unable to coordinate the two players together so that everyone is happy. Which is a legitimate concern for any considerate player and not at all an issue of bleed without some pretty severe stretches of the imagination, in my opinion. I wouldn't say the situations I had in mind were due to bleed but just bad communication and some people being stubborn. Not everyone is as reasonable as everyone here and if you do end up being the middle man, the older RPer in the provided examples, or the newer RPer what do you do in those responses and I think we can safely conclude that: If you're the older RPer, don't change your story to meet the other two, but if you can do something and it keep to your character you should do it. If you're the middle ground you shouldn't cut out your older friends/other stories for a new one especially if it damages or lessens their experience. You shouldn't change your character's attitudes either, but if the older or newer RPer do something significant that would affect your character, even if it wasn't in the original plan you should react to it. And if you're the newer RPer, it might suck you maybe didn't know what you signed on for, but if there's some old history coming around you want no part in, you've got the least to lose don't stick around and cause drama. That said you can't ignore that history because its not something you like or thought would happen either. RPers are connected, a lot of what we do in game affects a LOT of other people, you can't just dictate what does and doesn't happen based on your feelings, and if you do, you're a bad RPer.

I say this as a roleplayer who's made the mistake before a few times, so believe me, I'm not getting judgmental. Someone had to teach me this stuff, too. And, again, like I said, it's sometimes difficult to spot because so much can be hidden in the IC interactions. But man do you not want this kind of thing to blow up in your face. I've been on hand for quite a few spectacular RP meltdowns when someone's OOC plans, OOC feelings, and OOC issues suddenly exploded and took a chunk of the block with them. I don't know how bad the ones you've seen so far have been, but believe me when I say it's worth the caution. I will concede there are some RPers that I am aware of who are in this quagmire or just recently went through it which is why it's fresh in my mind, and yeah, they're not friends anymore. Its really sad.

There is no problem, just making sure.

I know it's not something that you'd probably want to deal with, but seriously, if this is a question, there is a problem somewhere. Honestly, if there wasn't an OOC problem, this isn't something that needs discussed. If your character has a whiskey every time he walks into a bar, you don't need to deal with the OOC merits of whether or not you should get a whiskey. Be very, very careful. I don't pretend to know the details of what's going on (frankly, I'm on Gilgamesh because I worry a lot about bleed), but from the very first post, that's been what I'm trying to hint at. You don't need to take my advice and you can do with it what you want, but if this is even coming up, there's a problem. It could be you, it could be someone else, but the fact of the matter is that if you know what the character should be doing in this situation, it's a no-brainer. I mean you're allowed to be incorrect with your speculation. I come from an RTS background where one of the best ways to play is generally discuss the game. I still think some Starcraft 2 builds and strategies would have never been discovered if not for people talking about them. Having a problem and being involved in it, and knowing of these kinds of problems and being willing to discuss and talk about them aren't the same thing. But you're right for me those would immediately be a huge red flag. Anytime someone draws a line super arbitrarily like that that basically says "My way or the high way." You're about to run out of road really fast.

What does it have to do with the other people? It's what your character does that matters. If it leads you away from your old RP partner and you want to continue, you can try to make an alt. But characters have to do what characters have to do. I feel this is insufficient as the character isn't a person and thus does not have a will of their own. It's perfectly fine to plan things out if you want to make a plot. Improvisation will only take you so far. As a group writing project, this plot thread failed because the participants did not have meshing styles, had opposing goals, did not communicate, and while endpoint and starting point were established, I suspect the plot structure initially agreed upon lacked the flexibility to continue regardless. I'm fine with spontaneous rp, but to say planned rp is not rp as Hammersmith did is a rash generalization. It works better for some writers than others. Some are satisfied with playing a bit role and "living the life." Others such as myself are constantly working towards a goal. Every rp I have done since my start, both planned and otherwise, I have used to push towards one or more of the five or six possible conclusions I've considered. Nothing is set in stone, but it is a real plot, not random rp. The key difference from simply playing solitaire and writing fan fiction is that it's collaborative work that exploits the different voice and stylistic tendencies of multiple writers, and as such you need some room to modify on the fly. Do not account for this factor and you'll end up with OP's situation "Will" isn't what I'm going for, and it's far from insufficient. It's pure, is what it is. See there's a problem with some of this... There's a problem called OOC bleed. It is the absolute plague of RP. That's when things that exist outside character bleed into character reactions. Times when your character does something entirely out of character because you are friends with another player. Times when players develop somewhat romantic feelings for each other and it bleeds into character development. Times when RP becomes more about players than about characters. This is a blaring red siren to anyone who's seen this. The problem is that what you're not recognizing is that the OP's situation is a huge, flaming, red problem. Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere if this has become an OOC situation. There has to be a sharp and bold division between what you think and want in-character and out-of-character. That's why this is important: OOC is completely and utterly inconsequential. ICly, the character goes back to his base. He values his original friends first. If this is what the character would do in this situation, then this is what the character should do in this situation. End of debate. If the new player doesn't like that, the only thing that needs to be said is, "It's nothing personal, but this is IC. I can run an alt with you or something, but this is what makes sense. I'm sorry if that's a problem, but my RP can't be driven by OOC issues." What you do OOC, explaining why it works this way IC, trying to diffuse the situation, making sure they know it's not personal in any way, that's all bomb-diffusing. But in-character? I might be something of an old-school purist, but the second I have to start dealing with people's OOC feelings for IC actions, that's not a delicate situation. That's a five-siren, red-flag warning that something's wrong. Curve balls, even ones that are bad for your character, are just development turns. They aren't meant to be personal. Believe me, some of my worst moments as a roleplayer weren't story moments, but moments when bleed suddenly turned into a whirling tornado of OOC rage. That's something I start heading off early, when it's starting as a bleed situation. By the time you get to the point where you're forced to deal with OOC disentangling to get on with your RP, it's already too late (not that it's necessarily Saint's fault, these things can be remarkably hard to see for what they are until it's too late). Maybe I just lack RPC's vaunted bleed paranoia, but I don't think it's unreasonable to have goals. It is unreasonable to get offended when someone is not interested in playing exactly the way you intended them t, sure. If you didn't communicate your plans to them properly, then fine, but I think it shouldn't be an issue where you worry someone else will take the harm to their character personally. It is totally legitimate to be disappointed if someone has said directly to you "we are gonna do this plan" and then scrap it with out showing them the courtesy of letting them know. That has nothing to do with bleed. Do you have the same problems if it does't get "just scrapped". If it dies organically ICly is that a problem still if its death wouldn't have happened without the third party's intervention?

Well this is an interesting point because I think a significant number of people feel this way, but let me ask you this: You've got an RPer you've shared months of in character development with. You decide to bring in a new character who's RP would make your old RP difficult. You two talk for a monthish, then start your new RP with your new RPer that affects your original RPer. About a week in the first guy comes back to you and says, "Well hey, this really effects my plot too, I understand its your characters but I should have been consulted. Even so I want to remain IC and avoid drama so do you mind if I join in the RP." You let your old friend join in your new "plot" with this new guy, and he drops an atomic bomb on the plot that you knew was coming but not your new partner. Suppose they disagree, new guy doesn't like old guy, but old guy's right you are affecting his character too. What do you as one of the points in this triangle and probably the most important point as you're the mutual link? Do you go with your old stand by because you have exponentially more history with that person or the new guy? What do you tell either of them? Do you write off your old RPs to line them up with the new guy even if that's not fair to the old? It raises a ton of questions that don't have good answers at all. What does it have to do with the other people? It's what your character does that matters. If it leads you away from your old RP partner and you want to continue, you can try to make an alt. But characters have to do what characters have to do. I feel this is insufficient as the character isn't a person and thus does not have a will of their own. It's perfectly fine to plan things out if you want to make a plot. Improvisation will only take you so far. As a group writing project, this plot thread failed because the participants did not have meshing styles, had opposing goals, did not communicate, and while endpoint and starting point were established, I suspect the plot structure initially agreed upon lacked the flexibility to continue regardless. I'm fine with spontaneous rp, but to say planned rp is not rp as Hammersmith did is a rash generalization. It works better for some writers than others. Some are satisfied with playing a bit role and "living the life." Others such as myself are constantly working towards a goal. Every rp I have done since my start, both planned and otherwise, I have used to push towards one or more of the five or six possible conclusions I've considered. Nothing is set in stone, but it is a real plot, not random rp. The key difference from simply playing solitaire and writing fan fiction is that it's collaborative work that exploits the different voice and stylistic tendencies of multiple writers, and as such you need some room to modify on the fly. Do not account for this factor and you'll end up with OP's situation "Will" isn't what I'm going for, and it's far from insufficient. It's pure, is what it is. See there's a problem with some of this... There's a problem called OOC bleed. It is the absolute plague of RP. That's when things that exist outside character bleed into character reactions. Times when your character does something entirely out of character because you are friends with another player. Times when players develop somewhat romantic feelings for each other and it bleeds into character development. Times when RP becomes more about players than about characters. This is a blaring red siren to anyone who's seen this. The problem is that what you're not recognizing is that the OP's situation is a huge, flaming, red problem. Something has gone horribly wrong somewhere if this has become an OOC situation. There has to be a sharp and bold division between what you think and want in-character and out-of-character. That's why this is important: OOC is completely and utterly inconsequential. ICly, the character goes back to his base. He values his original friends first. If this is what the character would do in this situation, then this is what the character should do in this situation. End of debate. If the new player doesn't like that, the only thing that needs to be said is, "It's nothing personal, but this is IC. I can run an alt with you or something, but this is what makes sense. I'm sorry if that's a problem, but my RP can't be driven by OOC issues." What you do OOC, explaining why it works this way IC, trying to diffuse the situation, making sure they know it's not personal in any way, that's all bomb-diffusing. But in-character? I might be something of an old-school purist, but the second I have to start dealing with people's OOC feelings for IC actions, that's not a delicate situation. That's a five-siren, red-flag warning that something's wrong. Curve balls, even ones that are bad for your character, are just development turns. They aren't meant to be personal. Believe me, some of my worst moments as a roleplayer weren't story moments, but moments when bleed suddenly turned into a whirling tornado of OOC rage. That's something I start heading off early, when it's starting as a bleed situation. By the time you get to the point where you're forced to deal with OOC disentangling to get on with your RP, it's already too late (not that it's necessarily Saint's fault, these things can be remarkably hard to see for what they are until it's too late). I appriciate the points but seriously, this isn't an issue I'm dealing with in game -.-' Its not an issue. The point of the thread was to bring up discussion on a topic that I think probably does arise pretty regularly in RP and determine how different people deal with it. No body is at fault for anything ICly or OOCly lol, I'm just trying to start good discussion

I 100% Agree ^.^ That was the point of this thread, I wanted to see what factors people weigh when making these decisions. I know I feel bad for the middleman in this situation, but ultimately I personally believe the best thing to do is give the bomb to the older RPer. If when deciding a new plotline you did something to damage someone else's who you worked with very closely because you didn't consider how changing your interactions/plot/story with them would affect them and when they still want to be apart of things if the newer RPer isn't willing to have some leeway or be willing to not have the plot they wanted go as planned, that's not the older guy's fault.

I'm kind of a dick when it comes to hunting people down. I don't necessarily kill leads, but my character isn't above pain and intimidation to get what he wants. If I catch the person I can only do what I've been told to do ICly. Its nothing personal, they can take it up with the bounty dude OOCly and he can get back to me. I assume its the same for others, if not I'll find out soon. I hired like 6 assassins to kill someone in the roses FC this weekend. Dude's a whore, not sure how he's going to handle someone actively trying to ruin his life and slander his reputation. (Forgot to note I also hired people to lie about his character and make him look awful ICly.)

Right here would be the problem in the situation, I think. You know a bomb is coming, and you know it's a bomb, but the new friend was not let in on it. At the very least, if you have even the faintest inkling that it could cause problems, it might be a good idea to let them know. Communication, as always, is critical - and this right here is a lack of communication. That's a great point, but it still doesn't really address the issue either. Do you tell the guy dropping the bomb he can't do it even if its something his character has done in the past? What if the new guy refuses to go along with it. At this point because one person doesn't like the other, maybe because they didn't know about him or whatever, their OOC ideas of what the plot should be is effectively blocking out another character. As the mediator between the two how do you handle that? What would your character do? Personally, Raeaon would side with his older friends. When he's hurt, when he's down, when he doesn't know what to do he goes back to his base, the people who helped him become who he is. I know the newer player might not like that it might interrupt whatever we were plotting, but ICly and OOCly, those people are Rae's friends, like family some of them and I think the hours and the time and the development we've put into each other ICly and OOCly is more binding than a week or two of new RP and some discussion time.

Right here would be the problem in the situation, I think. You know a bomb is coming, and you know it's a bomb, but the new friend was not let in on it. At the very least, if you have even the faintest inkling that it could cause problems, it might be a good idea to let them know. Communication, as always, is critical - and this right here is a lack of communication. That's a great point, but it still doesn't really address the issue either. Do you tell the guy dropping the bomb he can't do it even if its something his character has done in the past? What if the new guy refuses to go along with it. At this point because one person doesn't like the other, maybe because they didn't know about him or whatever, their OOC ideas of what the plot should be is effectively blocking out another character. As the mediator between the two how do you handle that?

Well this is an interesting point because I think a significant number of people feel this way, but let me ask you this: You've got an RPer you've shared months of in character development with. You decide to bring in a new character who's RP would make your old RP difficult. You two talk for a monthish, then start your new RP with your new RPer that affects your original RPer. About a week in the first guy comes back to you and says, "Well hey, this really effects my plot too, I understand its your characters but I should have been consulted. Even so I want to remain IC and avoid drama so do you mind if I join in the RP." You let your old friend join in your new "plot" with this new guy, and he drops an atomic bomb on the plot that you knew was coming but not your new partner. Suppose they disagree, new guy doesn't like old guy, but old guy's right you are affecting his character too. What do you as one of the points in this triangle and probably the most important point as you're the mutual link? Do you go with your old stand by because you have exponentially more history with that person or the new guy? What do you tell either of them? Do you write off your old RPs to line them up with the new guy even if that's not fair to the old? It raises a ton of questions that don't have good answers at all.

Sorry to double post. I just wanted to say 100% Yes to that. Arc and Angles guys, suppose you're not taking part of a plot. How do you handle your arcs? Is it the same way? I know when I did Rae when I made him I had some general idea of what I wanted him ideally to be like, but I made a character who would fit in the world who had to goal of "I want to be this when I grow up." and he worked to that but I didn't put any steps down and let RP flow. Would you budge from developmental arcs if someone gave you reason to budge?

I am in the same boat ^.^

None in particular, I'm just interested in the discussion ^.^ Waiting for Blueprints to finish, thought it sounded interesting to talk about.

I try to do that as well. I will usually have a general idea of where I would like to go with a plot if/when I present it... but I also try to be open enough that if something comes up that alters the path - or someone has some other ideas - I can roll with it. I suppose Gogon is a good example of that - original plan had him dead, and he's done quite a bit since when that was supposed to happen. What if it wasn't just like something you roll with. If someone had the idea of a plot that went one way then someone or something from your character's past came up like a nuclear fuckin' bomb or a force of nature that wouldn't just shatter your plans but could potentially shatter your partner's too. At that point do you say "Well, look this has been important to my character in the past I can't ignore it." or do you go "Well my character will be affected by this, maybe even dramatically, but I'm going to go for the same loosely defined end goal regardless." And further more would it change the way you viewed this event if you'd known that a lot of the reason this event happened was because of your change in plot. To use the trope again, guy changes not because he would ordinarily have changed but because the idea of losing girl was so bad for guy, his character went through its own development to match.

Sorry if these threads I'm making lately are a annoying, I just like to address things I feel like might be common things to happen to RPers that it might be helpful to have different perspectives on. Lets go for a really typical Hollywood Trope: Guy and Girl are very close romantically but for whatever reason they don't work out. Girl moves on, guy realizes error of his ways and comes back. What does guy have to do to show girl he's changed enough to be worth her taking on despite any new potential boyfriends? Does it matter how "involved" the girl and her new relationship is? Does it matter the age? Does it matter how bad the last relationship was? If girl got a new relationship because she didn't feel like the old one was going anywhere after months, if guy came back showing he could change and be different, in girl's shoes how do you handle this? Oh also assume Girl still really loves guy a lot. They're still very close just not together.

Most of my gamer friends are competitors from League or Starcraft primarily. We were already gamers before hand so I haven't had the opportunity to get people into gaming, but I have met some of my best friends in the world through it.

Well let me throw this curve ball at you then. Your character development is about to take a dramatic turn, the things your character wants and values are changing, like growing up going from being a teen to a young adult who has to choose life for themselves. As you're starting this out, a character from your past comes to you (I'll let you decide the context) claiming that they've changed or are changing or whatever they're claiming and while they want to help you grow into this new world, they (as a character, not a player) need your character to fight against some of the change and try to remain with them. Who would this new character asking your character in part to stay with them have to be in order to get you to change the plot? I mean this could be a friend becoming an enemy, an enemy becoming a friend, a former lover/flirt asking to be something more, someone you admire, someone you hate. What would their relationship have to be to you ICly to consider changing for them?