Naunet

That level of condescension actually wasn't what I had in mind. One of the major criticisms I've seen of XIV across most reviews or articles about it is that the game does very little hand-holding when it could stand to do more. It's no secret that a large amount of players don't really know even the basic meta of their class (examples: pets on Obey instead of Sic, WHM using Regen a lot more) and it's often considered a failing of the game. The feel I've gotten from the info on the new Jobs is that they do have some mechanics that would be difficult to understand if you're not very acquainted with the game. Imagine being a new player, you grab AST and suddenly all of your old skills are gone with a brand new lineup encompassing everything from 1-30, coupled with the RNG card mechanic and whatever else they have. You essentially have to relearn your entire Job right then at a level when the game is starting to ramp up its difficulty. It might not sound hard to someone who's been playing the game for a while (thus the emphasis on new players) but I've helped people brand new to the game before and they were often fairly overwhelmed with how complex XIV can be. Wait, people actually have argued that FFXIV doesn't do enough hand-holding? The game that babies you 1-50 with fights you can do in your sleep? (There's no ramp up in difficulty at all while leveling...) I mean, learning a new class is learning a new class. It's no different from one MMO to the next, and I can pretty much guarantee that learning AST isn't really going to be any different than picking up any other job. Yeah, you get new abilities - same thing that happens if you start playing a new class in this or any other MMO. And people handled death knights just fine in WoW (it helped that your abilities were handed out to you gradually over the course of 4 levels), so... I really don't think players need to be protected from the ~*complexity*~ of AST (or the other new Heavensward jobs). I know you didn't really intend it on such a condescending level, but that's essentially what that kind of defense is doing.

I'll make the decision about what is too complicated for me to handle, thanks. I don't need a game hand-holding me all "Oh but sweetie, that's too much for you right now." By the way, very few if any have suggested the new jobs start at level 1, so the first chunk of your post is largely irrelevant. What people do want is to be able to access those jobs at level 30 without first having to go through 50 levels on a completely different class, finish the MSQ, and do whatever else you need to do to get to Ishgard.

Pretending that not locking classes behind MSQ/50 levels is changing "large aspects of the game"... Hah. No. It's not.

This game take's WoW's strategy of elongating content and kicks it to such a high degree that it may as well be on a completely different dimensional plane. You really shouldn't try and compare the two as though they are remotely similar, because they are not. WoW doesn't lock classes behind the entire span of old world content. WoW doesn't even lock zones! You could get to Dalaran as a level 1 if you wanted. Now, I don't play WoW anymore, but I'm pretty sure they haven't retroactively changed any of that. I also disagree that the 1-character sub (and the ability to do everything on one character... well, everything except be a different race) justifies these kinds of decisions. SE offers 8 character slots, and you pay more than the people utilizing the 1 character. But then they're going to laugh in your face despite you giving them additional money? Haha! Not cool. For what it's worth, the prospect of not only being forced to complete the MSQ but also having to level through an entire class that I don't want to be in order to play what I want (Au Ra AST) was enough for me to decide NOT to re-subscribe.

This...sort of bugs me. There's a lot of female exclusive gear in-game but barely any male exclusive gear by comparison. It'd be pretty nice to get some suits or something that are only available to male characters to balance things out a bit. Instead of asking for more restrictions, try advocating for freedom of choice when it comes to costumes. SE needs to grow out of their box.

Before I quit, I was clearing Coil turns with the best of them (and honestly not all that impressed). Needing to play "harder instances" was not the issue. ;p An interesting class can do a lot to save otherwise uninteresting game content. That said, I've known a great deal of people through my time raiding in this and in other MMOs who really just like one, maybe two classes in the game. It's not unusual. Saying people like that are unhealthy is plain rude.

*waves* Hi, before the introduction of Astrologian, I only really had interest in playing WHM. The combat was far too sluggish for a dps or tank class to do anything but bore me to tears. Of course, that makes me super narrowminded and unhealthy! Oh boy!

Please explain how being forced to level as something other than the job you want to play helps you learn your class through the "core game"?

@Memenu: Bold character! I approve. And I have to wonder what would happen to Memenu should her people stop "needing" her so much... I'll just introduce Antimony, as she was/is my main character in FFXIV. This is her original incarnation:

So when it auto-updates on July 29th, we don't have to worry about backing up any files or whatnot?

What evidence do you have that more people would want to be X class over Y class? SE is pushing the three new classes pretty darn hard in their advertising. New players are going to be exposed to them. Maybe playing FFXIV takes a certain godly ability to tolerate arbitrary BS to play and enjoy. I would certainly be disappointed, possibly to the point of just saying "screw it", if I was drawn to the game by X and then promptly told I couldn't get X unless invested a whole lot of time leveling a character I didn't want.

I've been working on my digital skills (or rather, their lackthereof) lately. Painted a couple non-FFXIV things I'm pretty proud of so I'll post them here: My TERA character, with her hair having grown out over the past year: My Lavellan, Esaya, from Dragon Age: Inquisition: Each of them only took a couple hours! *happy* I've also been doing a lot of very quick bust sketches to reply to an art challenge on tumblr. Here's an ffxiv-related one that I am particularly proud of: I may have to turn this into a full-fledged drawing, because I adore how K'piru's expression turned out.

I'd have thought MMOers were good at suspension of disbelief. I never thought too hard when leveling a monk through old world content in WoW, or when rolling up an alt in Rift and starting out with one of the newer souls, or whathaveyou. Gameplay-story segregation. In FFXIV, your character's class isn't a deciding factor when it comes to how the MSQ plays out. I'm still not sure what you mean by personal problem (or even to what you're referring), though it certainly sounds like a veiled insult.

Personal problem? o.0 What... As for asking why a DRK/AST/MCH hasn't wandered out of Ishgard yet and using that as an excuse for why they shouldn't be around after the expansion... That's like asking why couldn't players make Death Knights in Burning Crusade.

Lore-wise, I think only two of them are significantly tied to Ishgard and even then, it would not at all be unusual for NPCs to venture out into the world to lure in the interested adventurer or whatever. As for the gaming point quoted above... I disagree fundamentally. I do not need to level other classes in order to understand how they work, and I don't need to level other classes in order to understand how the one(s) I do want to play works. [edit] Are you deliberately misunderstanding people's arguments? No one here is suggesting players should be able to start at level 30 or whatever. Myself and others simply think it's absurd that you have to wait until you 50ed a completely different job just to be able to play the new jobs. They should just start at level 1.

Being equipped to handle Ishgard content has nothing to do with leveling the three new classes, though. I've also never suggested that leveling 1-50 should be unnecessary. I have pointed out that in other MMOs, you typically have to level through most of the levels of previous expacs but can move on to the current continent one or two levels prior (or at the very least, without having to run through outdated endgame).

Except that's not how expansions in MMOs are traditionally handled. The worst you have to do in any other MMO expac, if you're just starting or rerolling, is level through some older zones, and generally you can move on to the current content a couple levels before the old cap. Just because something isn't following tradition doesn't mean its wrong. No, but when it's unduly annoying to folk, it might be considered poor game design. Honestly there's a reason I never leveled more alt classes on my main except for SCH/SMN (and the requisite THM levels for WHM). I hate the FATE grind with a passion. >_< Leveling THM and SCH/SMN was an exercise in enduring torture. And really, when I'm playing a game, I don't want to play it to torture myself. The thought that it will be impossible to level AST through standard questing is just so mindnumbing I'm not sure where to start.

Except that's not how expansions in MMOs are traditionally handled. The worst you have to do in any other MMO expac, if you're just starting or rerolling, is level through some older zones, and generally you can move on to the current content a couple levels before the old cap.

Yeah I haven't played since before NIN was introduced and was honestly considering coming back to level an Au Ra astrologian. Because they look pretty cool. Not so anymore. I have no desire to jump through the excessive hoops. >_<

No, I don't think you should have to do any "suffering" through playing on a class/job you don't want to play on just to be able to go back and mindlessly grind through an area on FATEs and dungeons to level up your actual desired job.

Hah. Took them long enough. Now to do something about that duty timer...

I think that is enough to assume, however, that average citizens are not going to be working in terms of thousands of gil.

Haha oh man, that is going to be... pretty awful. I keep looking for a reason to give SE money again (au ra, as much as I despise what they represent in character design philosophy, are pretty; I love the idea of astrologian; new places to explore is always fun), but every single time SE just shoots them all down (crappy character customization; astrologian locked behind the gods-awful level and MSQ grind as I'd have wanted to make an au ra astrologian; SE's continued obsession with tightly controlling where you go in zones isn't likely to change; etc). >_<

@Prova: I'm not sure I understand your point. One of the primary restrictions of the Heavensward "expansion" forces players to play a class they may not want to play for a huge chunk of content. Nothing is going to be fun if you're having to play something you don't want to.

The low point being, in this case, the majority of the leveling experience. That's more like a near-bottomless chasm. Grinds in MMOs can be fun, so long as the stuff you're doing for the grind is fun and certain things - such as the class you play - are under the player's control. You have a very low opinion of other players. This is funny because ignoring the inaccuracy of your assumption, I don't think I've been in a single piece of FFXIV content outside of high endgame (and even then...) where a few bad players couldn't be carried.