Lore drops concerning Dragoon via the Heavensward Opening:

[Uninstalldotexe]

Everything aside, I almost wish I had a DRG character who taught others to DRG.  My student's first real "jump" would be kicking them off the side of an airship and just land safely. We can worry about accuracy later. lol.

[111]

Anyone who complains about dragoons being where they're supposed to be, remember Ishgard has the equivalent of the bat light.

 

The Astrologians can tell if an attack is coming far before it does, as it is written in the stars.

 

Anyway, that's just a side note. The real point is that NO ONE IN EORZEA DOES THEIR DAMN JOB.

 

People are always all over the place, and never where the lore says they should be. Let's take the iconic sultansworn, for example. We see them chasing down royal jewels, looking for Nanamo's lost crown, or solving mysteries with Hildebrand and the gang. Of course no one is there to taste Nanamo's wine.

 

So yeah, Dragoons should be in Ishgard, but so should the temple knights. The stone torches should be in copperbell mines. The Brass Blades shouldn't be in costa del sol. Etc etc.

 

No one does their job and is where they are supposed to be in this game. Why should RPers be any difference.

[Warren Castille]

Anyone who complains about dragoons being where they're supposed to be, remember Ishgard has the equivalent of the bat light.

 

The Astrologians can tell if an attack is coming far before it does, as it is written in the stars.

 

Anyway, that's just a side note. The real point is that NO ONE IN EORZEA DOES THEIR DAMN JOB.

 

People are always all over the place, and never where the lore says they should be. Let's take the iconic sultansworn, for example. We see them chasing down royal jewels, looking for Nanamo's lost crown, or solving mysteries with Hildebrand and the gang. Of course no one is there to taste Nanamo's wine.

 

So yeah, Dragoons should be in Ishgard, but so should the temple knights. The stone torches should be in copperbell mines. The Brass Blades shouldn't be in costa del sol. Etc etc.

 

No one does their job and is where they are supposed to be in this game. Why should RPers be any difference.

 

There's reasons for the Sworn being out and about: They're effectively defenders of the crown and the person wearing it. Crown jewels get stolen? They're supposed to reclaim them. The Hildebrand storyline has to do with state secrets and a looming threat being taken care of after things are stolen from royal vaults.

 

The Stone Torches are at the mines - keeping everyone else out until adventurers answer the call to go in and reclaim them.

 

#33 Paintedmesa The Stone Torches're keepin' watch over the entrance in case the giants fancy some sunlight and fresh air. One of 'em will be able to show you the way in. The hope of the nation's restin' on you, friend. Best of luck!

 

I honestly don't know wtf is going on with Blades in Costa. Was that a quest or are they just... there?

 

Bat Signal or not, you can't see it from the desert, or an island away. And our lore on teleports are sort of stringent at best - Lore dictates that not everyone can use them. We can probably safely guess that dragoons have the aether required to use them, but ICly teleporting is still hard to rationalize. It likely requires actually being at an aetheryte. It still seems strange.

[Zelmanov]

Off topic: Bad DRG rper in the QS picking up another player. Not all DRGs, just the bad ones.... right here.

 

[video=youtube]

 

 

 

On topic: Lore drops....

 

There were none. Sorry but watching the video we see two things, the derplander doing spoilers on people that would have gotten me banned lol. And second we "saw" what jump is suppose to look like.... that's it. Yes, we saw guys in the armor jumping, but as for lore bomb.... there was no context, were they common soldiers? Elite Squad/Guard? The "Bloodsworn" of Ishgard? We have no way of framing the data because the data was meant to tantalize and encourage people to buy an expansion, not lay out lore. And to sit here and argue back and forth is not needed as in the end we are all still in our opinions with little fact.

 

All we know lorewise is jump looks really cool. That's all we got, that's it.... and that a food taster may not have been a bad investment in Ul'dah. The where, why, how, and who of the Jump will not be made clear until we get our little hands on 3.0 and read the dialog. Until then, anger is a sickness guys. Make like Elsa and let it go.

 

 

IMO

 

Its a lore drop primarily about the exclusivity of jumps/efficacy. You have a much older account than mine so I'm certain you've seen the arguments beforehand about the capabilities of a Dragoon with a Capital D, as in the job, not the title.

 

- some said that only the Azure Dragoon is the sole person that can do any sort of jumping. So anyone RP'ing their abilities is being Mary Sue.

 

This isn't true as shown in the trailer.

 

- Some argued that jumps would be obscenely impractical in combat.

 

which is also not true because their jumps are not commanded by standard 9.8 meters per second per second acceleration of gravity but are commanded by animu physics. The lift off instantly, can change direction midair and come down like a lightning bolt. It is more threat than non-threat in an RP situation.

 

as for who they were. They are Dragoons with the Armor and the Gae Bolg, both confirmed to be in mass production and the equipment and symbol of office of the Dragoons with a capital D by fernewhales. These are different from say the dyspeptic dragoon you can find in the gates of judgement during the MSQ which is just a Templar knight with a spear.

 

 

That is really it. IMO the -exact- mechanics are a mystery for sure, but we have visual representation of how it should be.

 

 

this whole thing about age was really not my intention >_>

[Virella]

Off topic: Bad DRG rper in the QS picking up another player. Not all DRGs, just the bad ones.... right here.

 

[video=youtube]

 

 That's the Ishgardian way of flirting, did you not know?

 

And this topic pleases me greatly, although I've got nothing much more to add, but wishing for people to give us some more sources on where they pluck their information from!

[Melkire]

...can change direction midair...

 

I would advise re-watching the Heavensward opening cinematic. Nowhere in there does this happen. What you're likely seeing is the sudden cut from one airborn dragoon hurling his polearm to another dragoon leaping in a certain direction only to be taken midair by a dragon's maw (if what you're looking at instead is the sudden "jerking" motion of the first dragoon hurling said polearm, note that aerodynamically speaking, a sudden change in profile can result in increased drag that consequently results in a loss of airspeed and a sudden drop in altitude).

 

Also the "instant liftoff" looks more like a leap to me. Yes, granted, more likely aetherically assisted than not, "anime-style" powered jumps, if you will.

 

Interesting side-note: the first major "bolt" that hits the dragon in the opening cinematic is actually a dragoon impacting the dragon's back. Close inspection of its subsequent flailing reveals a dragoon with his polearm embedded in the beast's spine.

[Zelmanov]

The midair thing was in reference was this scene here http://i.imgur.com/3ptCSA2.png?1

 

to here http://i.imgur.com/OBUuSYm.png?1

 

which looked like to me as a straight leap up then a sudden change of angle of attack upon the big bad dragon. 

 

I'm willing to debate the veracity or lack of.

 

 

And yes, I thought that first scene was first the Dragoon tagging the dragon and the dragon killers doing their job afterwards because those looked like explosions rather than say, landing dragoons.

[Warren Castille]

The midair thing was in reference was this scene here http://i.imgur.com/3ptCSA2.png?1

 

to here http://i.imgur.com/OBUuSYm.png?1

 

which looked like to me as a straight leap up then a sudden change of angle of attack upon the big bad dragon. 

 

I'm willing to debate the veracity or lack of.

 

 

And yes, I thought that first scene was first the Dragoon tagging the dragon and the dragon killers doing their job afterwards because those looked like explosions rather than say, landing dragoons.

 

I was also under the impression the initial hits weren't dragoons but projectiles.

 

Also, I think the point of contention here is the difference between freedom of movement while falling and changing your destination at the peak of the jump. I don't think anyone would mind the latter, but when you become capable of flight with the former no one's going to find that "fair."

 

We've discussed at length here before about the veracity of people being okay with DRG being rockerlaunchersniperrifles. It basically went like this:

 

DRG: Sounds fine!

Everyone else: No, it doesn't!

[Melkire]

The midair thing was in reference was this scene here http://i.imgur.com/3ptCSA2.png?1

 

to here http://i.imgur.com/OBUuSYm.png?1

 

which looked like to me as a straight leap up then a sudden change of angle of attack upon the big bad dragon. 

 

I'm willing to debate the veracity or lack of.

 

 

And yes, I thought that first scene was first the Dragoon tagging the dragon and the dragon killers doing their job afterwards because those looked like explosions rather than say, landing dragoons.

 

That's the change in profile I was discussing. Each and every reaction has a reaction. You cannot simply turn about and hurl something that large like that while midair and not lose airspeed, not increase the effect of drag (which is a weird combination of gravity and airflow that can inadequately be described as "the opposite of the combination of lift and thrust"), and not suddenly drop. The action, you'll note, is downward. It's an arrest of forward momentum followed or coincided with a drop. This sort of thing happens all the time with slope-soaring gliders: if you suddenly change a glider's attitude and either nosedive or spin it into a nosedive, you're going to fall rather quickly.

 

This is far different from a midair change in direction that, say, takes you from traveling northward to eastward on the horizontal plane.

 

But enough about realism. Most folks seem to want the anime take.

 

#bows out

[Virella]

The midair thing was in reference was this scene here http://i.imgur.com/3ptCSA2.png?1

 

to here http://i.imgur.com/OBUuSYm.png?1

 

which looked like to me as a straight leap up then a sudden change of angle of attack upon the big bad dragon. 

 

I'm willing to debate the veracity or lack of.

 

 

And yes, I thought that first scene was first the Dragoon tagging the dragon and the dragon killers doing their job afterwards because those looked like explosions rather than say, landing dragoons.

 

That's the change in profile I was discussing. Each and every reaction has a reaction. You cannot simply turn about and hurl something that large like that while midair and not lose airspeed, not increase the effect of drag (which is a weird combination of gravity and airflow that can inadequately be described as "the opposite of the combination of lift and thrust"), and not suddenly drop. The action, you'll note, is downward. It's an arrest of forward momentum followed or coincided with a drop. This sort of thing happens all the time with slope-soaring gliders: if you suddenly change a glider's attitude and either nosedive or spin it into a nosedive, you're going to fall rather quickly.

 

This is far different from a midair change in direction that, say, takes you from traveling northward to eastward on the horizontal plane.

 

But enough about realism. Most folks seem to want the anime take.

 

#bows out

 

Don't think it is the anime take, more so a fantasy take instead of a logical/grim dark approach to it all. Laws of psychics don't really apply in any fantasy setting, you know?

 

Embrace your inner (Final) Fantasy, cast your grimdark aside today!

[Melkire]

...how is what I posted "grimdark"?

[Khadan]

...can change direction midair...

 

I would advise re-watching the Heavensward opening cinematic. Nowhere in there does this happen. What you're likely seeing is the sudden cut from one airborn dragoon hurling his polearm to another dragoon leaping in a certain direction only to be taken midair by a dragon's maw (if what you're looking at instead is the sudden "jerking" motion of the first dragoon hurling said polearm, note that aerodynamically speaking, a sudden change in profile can result in increased drag that consequently results in a loss of airspeed and a sudden drop in altitude).

 

Also the "instant liftoff" looks more like a leap to me. Yes, granted, more likely aetherically assisted than not, "anime-style" powered jumps, if you will.

 

Interesting side-note: the first major "bolt" that hits the dragon in the opening cinematic is actually a dragoon impacting the dragon's back. Close inspection of its subsequent flailing reveals a dragoon with his polearm embedded in the beast's spine.

 

What we do see in the cinematic, at the point of the links provided by Zelmanov, is a person shooting into the air, literally arresting or transferring all the momentum of that jump and altering their direction. He wasn't at the peak of his 'arc', he shot up, practically stopped with some acrobatic stuff, and shot down like a lightning bolt. Of course when he leaps off the dragon again he's caught in its mouth. Dragoons may be elite and specialized but the job is still dangerous otherwise there'd be a thousand dragoons all over and no dragons.

[Gegenji]

Laws of psychics don't really apply in any fantasy setting, you know?

...how is what I posted "grimdark"?

 

I'm more curious what the laws of psychics are. But I'm assuming Virella meant... I dunno, grittier? More based in realism than than the lackadaisical approach to the laws of nature usually taken by Final Fantasy games. I would agree that logical is not interchangeable with grimdark, though.

[Melkire]

What we do see in the cinematic, at the point of the links provided by Zelmanov, is a person shooting into the air, literally arresting or transferring all the momentum of that jump and altering their direction. He wasn't at the peak of his 'arc', he shot up, practically stopped with some acrobatic stuff, and shot down like a lightning bolt. Of course when he leaps off the dragon again he's caught in its mouth. Dragoons may be elite and specialized but the job is still dangerous otherwise there'd be a thousand dragoons all over and no dragons.

 

The drop in those pics is barely a meter. Maybe two at most. The camera then cuts to a different dragoon altogether. It's a different dragoon that's getting caught in the mouth.

 

The first dragoon is not "shooting down like a lightning bolt." Yes, there's a sudden change in momentum (speed, velocity, acceleration, jerk, the interesting thing we're seeing here is jerk).

 

EDIT: Or maybe I'm wrong.

 

EDIT 2: After multiple viewings, all I can say is that the only odd thing is how the sudden forward momentum is completely halted. It's a little jarring. The downward motion in and of itself is not that startling, given the supposed weight of drachen mail combined with gravity and a clear intent to drop. Neither is the leap off the dragon's back, assuming that it's the same dragoon.

 

I refer yet again to slope-soaring gliders turning over into a nosedive. I'm just not sure how dragoons manage it (that it can be done without aether is plausible).

[Zelmanov]

Ok, so  the Dragoon in the images I linked is found at 4:28 to 4:29 moment, at 4:30 we have an angle change to the Big bad Dragon getting smashed by jump. I think that's the same Dragoon, not a different one and he becomes dragon food. 

 

 

Unless you are talking about the one that leaps at 4:26 being different from the 4:28 one. Which I can understand.

 

 

Just want to clear up which one you are referring to. So many faceless soldiers, hard to keep track. I'm not even joking.

 

 

Yes, Warren, I'm talking about at the peak of the jump more so than say on the way up or down...that'd just be flying.

[allgivenover]

I didn't catch it at first myself either, but yes the Dragoons assuredly are breaking the laws of physics and rocketing both from the ground and after changing direction in the air, then impacting into giant dragons many times their own mass without being killed by the force immediately.

 

There's no reasonable explanation for it other than aether allows people to break the laws of physics whether it's through the armor itself or the ability of the Dragoons, it's definitely what's happening.

 

Animu physics are canon.

[Melkire]

Ok, so  the Dragoon in the images I linked is found at 4:28 to 4:29 moment, at 4:30 we have an angle change to the Big bad Dragon getting smashed by jump. I think that's the same Dragoon, not a different one and he becomes dragon food. 

 

Unless you are talking about the one that leaps at 4:26 being different from the 4:28 one. Which I can understand.

 

Just want to clear up which one you are referring to. So many faceless soldiers, hard to keep track. I'm not even joking.

 

Yes, Warren, I'm talking about at the peak of the jump more so than say on the way up or down...that'd just be flying.

 

The cut from Dragoon 4:28 to Dragoon 4:30 implies that it's the same guy. I didn't catch the view of him actually on the dragon's back and assumed it was a different one jumping towards the camera from beyond the dragon.

 

As I mentioned in the edit to my last post, the only fantastical thing about Dragoon 4:28 is the sudden halt in forward momentum. External application of aether as a force acting on the body might explain that, but I'm not going to assume that's a thing until we get actual lore/text on it.

[allgivenover]

the only fantastical thing about Dragoon 4:28 is the sudden halt in forward momentum.

 

The ONLY fantastical thing? They're shown going from 0 to 60 from a standing position without a crouch into the air, crashing into something many times their own size without the impact killing them outright, balancing on one foot on a spire that could not possibly have been climbed up or even landed on without impaling yourself, halting their super-fast momentum and twisting into a fall (the twist they also halt into a perfect downward stab), and flipping through the air like it was walking and you think there's ONE fantastical thing about them?

 

EVERYTHING about what they're doing is fantastical!

 

EDIT: Oh, you mean fantastical in that exact moment, my mistake.

[Melkire]

the only fantastical thing about Dragoon 4:28 is the sudden halt in forward momentum.

 

The ONLY fantastical thing? They're shown going from 0 to 60 from a standing position without a crouch into the air, crashing into something many times their own size without the impact killing them outright, balancing on one foot on a spire that could not possibly have been climbed up or even landed on without impaling yourself, halting their super-fast momentum and twisting into a fall (the twist they also halt into a perfect downward stab), and flipping through the air like it was walking and you think there's ONE fantastical thing about them?

 

EVERYTHING about what they're doing is fantastical!

 

EDIT: Oh, you mean fantastical in that exact moment, my mistake.

 

Yeah, in that exact moment. I should've said "the only NEW fantastical thing," given that we've known about Jump and their aerial combat skills via lore and gameplay for a while now.

[Khadan]

What we do see in the cinematic, at the point of the links provided by Zelmanov, is a person shooting into the air, literally arresting or transferring all the momentum of that jump and altering their direction. He wasn't at the peak of his 'arc', he shot up, practically stopped with some acrobatic stuff, and shot down like a lightning bolt. Of course when he leaps off the dragon again he's caught in its mouth. Dragoons may be elite and specialized but the job is still dangerous otherwise there'd be a thousand dragoons all over and no dragons.

 

The drop in those pics is barely a meter. Maybe two at most. The camera then cuts to a different dragoon altogether. It's a different dragoon that's getting caught in the mouth.

 

The first dragoon is not "shooting down like a lightning bolt." Yes, there's a sudden change in momentum (speed, velocity, acceleration, jerk, the interesting thing we're seeing here is jerk).

 

EDIT: Or maybe I'm wrong.

 

EDIT 2: After multiple viewings, all I can say is that the only odd thing is how the sudden forward momentum is completely halted. It's a little jarring. The downward motion in and of itself is not that startling, given the supposed weight of drachen mail combined with gravity and a clear intent to drop. Neither is the leap off the dragon's back, assuming that it's the same dragoon.

 

I refer yet again to slope-soaring gliders turning over into a nosedive. I'm just not sure how dragoons manage it (that it can be done without aether is plausible).

 

I was about to grind my face into my desk lol. I've been told to "rewatch the video!!111!!oneone so many times now. I've gone through the bloody thing frame by frame and I think I may be at that breaking point of frustration where I start cutting frames and drawing diagrams lol.

 

ANYWAY, if we're on to 'how are these things possible' then we're at the same place everyone who is done trying to prove/disprove the validity of is at: "Okay it's a thing but how is it a thing?". This is a good place to be and the conversation on this topic is probably due for a fresh thread with a little less, albeit thankfully dwindling, vitriol.

[Warren Castille]

We've established Jump is possible thanks to CG. The trickier part (for me) is figuring out not how that becomes possible but when that becomes possible. I mean, I recently watched a highlander kick a pillar into pieces and fight a guy using only one hand. I'm not sure that gives highlanders everywhere cart blanche to start making doors in walls.

 

It's not possible to establish, either. Roleplayers will find what they feel works for them and run with it. The challenge with THAT is that things snarl pretty wildly when the group thinking hyper-deadly aerial combat is the norm meets the group that feels that's reserved for the truly elite.

 

Honestly, I look for any excuse to post this.

 

 

Replace "throw into the sun" with "murder a soft target with my rocket jump." Ascian? Sniped. Traitors? Sniped. Any mortal challenge whatsoever? Sniped. After all, those spears are used to kill dragons! What chance does anything smaller have?

[Verad]

We've established Jump is possible thanks to CG. The trickier part (for me) is figuring out not how that becomes possible but when that becomes possible. I mean, I recently watched a highlander kick a pillar into pieces and fight a guy using only one hand. I'm not sure that gives highlanders everywhere cart blanche to start making doors in walls.

 

It's not possible to establish, either. Roleplayers will find what they feel works for them and run with it. The challenge with THAT is that things snarl pretty wildly when the group thinking hyper-deadly aerial combat is the norm meets the group that feels that's reserved for the truly elite.

 

Honestly, I look for any excuse to post this.

 

 

It's not a very good comic.

[Warren Castille]

It's not a very good comic.

 

[Gegenji]

It's not a very good comic.

 

 

I didn't know Dragoons were weak to kryptonite. Let's hope the Dravarians don't find out.

[Khadan]

I didn't catch it at first myself either, but yes the Dragoons assuredly are breaking the laws of physics and rocketing both from the ground and after changing direction in the air, then impacting into giant dragons many times their own mass without being killed by the force immediately.

 

There's no reasonable explanation for it other than aether allows people to break the laws of physics whether it's through the armor itself or the ability of the Dragoons, it's definitely what's happening.

 

Animu physics are canon.

 

Physics being bent and broken is nothing new in FF =P