Combat RP: How do I git gud?

[Melkire]

Disclaimer: I have no personal practical experience.

 

Something important to note that I cannot stress enough: armor is a HUGE advantage.

 

As a roleplayer writing for an in-fighter with extensive experience in knife-fighting, armor is hell. Yes, there are weaknesses that can be taken advantage of - joints, exposed points like the underarms, chainmail intended to cushion crushing blows from maces but not stop the piercing action of a rondel dagger - but by and large, in a one-on-one, the individual without armor is going to have a hell of a time because each opening that results in an exchange of strike and counterstrike is far more likely than not to leave the less-armored individual with more "damage" than his or her foe. The fantasy setting of XIV mitigates this disadvantage somewhat if your character is, say, a ninja or a monk, but there's still some serious difficulty in selling a victory and that difficulty lies in execution.

 

My character recently came up against not one but two armored individuals. My character and I had to immediately adapt - it was a big "nope" moment - and even a shift in tactics to engage them separately instead of together still resulted in massive injury to my character, because armor is JUST. THAT. GOOD.

[Domri Blackblade]

Disclaimer: I have no personal practical experience.

 

Something important to note that I cannot stress enough: armor is a HUGE advantage.

 

As a roleplayer writing for an in-fighter with extensive experience in knife-fighting, armor is hell. Yes, there are weaknesses that can be taken advantage of - joints, exposed points like the underarms, chainmail intended to cushion crushing blows from maces but not stop the piercing action of a rondel dagger - but by and large, in a one-on-one, the individual without armor is going to have a hell of a time because each opening that results in an exchange of strike and counterstrike is far more likely than not to leave the less-armored individual with more "damage" than his or her foe. The fantasy setting of XIV mitigates this disadvantage somewhat if your character is, say, a ninja or a monk, but there's still some serious difficulty in selling a victory and that difficulty lies in execution.

 

My character recently came up against not one but two armored individuals. My character and I had to immediately adapt - it was a big "nope" moment - and even a shift in tactics to engage them separately instead of together still resulted in massive injury to my character, because armor is JUST. THAT. GOOD.

 

To add onto this, people like to emote going directly for the back of the knees with no effort when it comes to knives. It's pretty difficult to get to the back of someone's legs without a lot of effort because your opponent isn't standing still and letting you just knick at their armor weaknesses. The same rules in general apply in that you have to force the opponent to open up. But in these cases you have to be wholly more creative, and like Melkire said, adapt in tactics.

[Hammersmith]

Disclaimer: I have no personal practical experience.

 

Something important to note that I cannot stress enough: armor is a HUGE advantage.

 

As a roleplayer writing for an in-fighter with extensive experience in knife-fighting, armor is hell. Yes, there are weaknesses that can be taken advantage of - joints, exposed points like the underarms, chainmail intended to cushion crushing blows from maces but not stop the piercing action of a rondel dagger - but by and large, in a one-on-one, the individual without armor is going to have a hell of a time because each opening that results in an exchange of strike and counterstrike is far more likely than not to leave the less-armored individual with more "damage" than his or her foe. The fantasy setting of XIV mitigates this disadvantage somewhat if your character is, say, a ninja or a monk, but there's still some serious difficulty in selling a victory and that difficulty lies in execution.

 

My character recently came up against not one but two armored individuals. My character and I had to immediately adapt - it was a big "nope" moment - and even a shift in tactics to engage them separately instead of together still resulted in massive injury to my character, because armor is JUST. THAT. GOOD.

 

I'm a bit of an armor nut, and I agree completely.

 

There's ways to DEAL with heavy armor, and plate mail, and other suits of supposed invulnerability, but you have to know AND have the tool to fix it on hand.  

 

Medieval weapons like axes evolved blunt wedges designed to crimp armor, thus breaking bones like the clavical or putting a sharp point of metal in the diaphram, rather than actually piericng it.  

 

A common tactic for dealing with Chain-Mail and hauberk wears was pitch, either poured (boiling oil!), or attached to a tarry rag that could be lit and hurled (Or if you were a ballsy asshole you could pull open the very loose neck of the chainmail and drop it right into the tightly cinched and fastened chest area. ). All cases coated the guy in chain mail in burning shit they couldn't wipe off.

 

Which cooked them alive inside a red-hot chain mail oven.

 

As you can see most of the REAL methods of dealing with armor involve specialized tools and making the armor into a tomb instead of a protective shell.  You didn't just stab into someone's armpit with a noble-killer knife and pop their heart like a rotten balloon.  You only saw opportunities like that after the guy in the armor was crippled or worse.

 

You fight a guy in heavy armor, you either tire them out (and stamina training was a BIG part of wearing heavy armor), you have a tool to deal with it and know how to use it, or you don't fucking engage.

[Flickering Ember]

I wanted to second what Domri wrote up. (I don't have as much martial training as him, but I did do over five years of Kuk Sool Won and about a year of MMA.) One point in particular I wanted to point out is you will get hit. You acknowledge going into a fight that you might take a beating. The goal is to take less of a beating than your opponent. Like Domri said, if you see a clear shot to the ribs, take it, but know that you're gonna take a hit in return. A strike will almost always leave you open to a counterstrike.

 

I tried to quote Domri's post as well but I assume since it is on a different page in the thread, the forum did not like that.

 

I just wanted to add though that this seems to apply exclusively to hand-to-hand combat. With this and kicks, an opponent can survive multiple blows. It is a different story for weapons that are designed to kill, though. I have heard it in a documentary that the average sword fight only lasts for seconds. The trading of blows seems to apply to this kind of fighting as well but the difference is that landing a blow is usually fatal.

 

For this reason I don't think that the RP community is really capable of role-playing out realistic fight scenes. Our fight scenes are more like movie scenes than historical or lifelike fights.

 

I feel like this advice can work for the martial arts but I have to wonder if there is any specific advice for weaponry. Role players tend to downplay how devastating wounds can be. For example, a wound to the shoulder or thigh can be one of the most dangerous places to be hit in but the community often uses these spots as 'non-lethal' wound locations.

[Caspar]

Yeah, characters in fiction get hit in those two locations a lot, and are just seriously injured; they don't die. Also there is the classic "arrows just hurt a lot" thing where you can take one and still move, but in reality, I've heard it is very difficult to even limp away after being hit with an arrow, even if it's not in a limb. Getting shot once would probably be fatal, and if it isn't, you would have almost no ability to dodge a second one.

 

I do not think realism has much stock in a fictional fight, for it greatly lessens entertainment value IMO and severely favors certain methods of fighting not everyone finds interesting. Some approaches are just more practical irl, and yet aren't as cool to everyone. It can be used to enhance your post, but I disagree that it necessarily is the "best" approach to writing fight scenes. Some cannot, or do not want to, do this.

[Zelmanov]

since a lot of the technical aspects of fighting already seem outlined, I have this to say:

 

 

I tend to go by one tenet when it comes to RP combat that DOES NOT have a predetermined outcome. By this I mean fights that are not decided by rolls or are railroaded to a certain conclusion for the sake of a plot. I am talking pure, free form RP combat:

 

Do what is fun for BOTH parties. Your characters may be enemies but you, as players are allies in weaving a compelling story for both you and whoever is standing by watching.

 

You may enjoy being an unstoppable juggernaut but your opponent will not. Same goes if it were the other way around. There will be a give and take.

 

Be concise with your actions and state your intentions clearly as to what is going on so your opponent can react appropriately. You can use pretty words and colorful narrative as long as it is clear what is being done. 

 

If you are unsure as to the scale of the combat, be sure to suss it out OOC or mirror their combat style. This is how I at least, avoid power-creep/escalations. If someone is up for a bar brawl RP, don't bring out the blackmage flare. Winning the fight is not the goal of free form RP combat most of the time.

 

You may intend to do whatever to another character but that person has the final say on what happens to them. Same goes for you.

 

 

you will meet people that, no matter how well or well reasoned your attack is made to be, will dodge or dance or manmode their way through. Be ready to reconcile any perceptions of your character being undefeatable/never picks a fight they can't win right now.

 

 

 

__________________________________________________

 

 

 

These guidelines should result in fun for both parties.

 

 

 

 

Its almost like a ERP  *Ahem*.

[Coatleque]

This may look like shameless self-promotion, but it's the most recent example I have of what you might call 'good' combat RP. Starting with this post, the next few posts describe the lead up, battle, and resolution of a 10-man fight that was entirely unscripted and uncoordinated. There were no rolls made and no OOC coordination save for "Be at in minutes".

 

I have the raw log as well if you want to see parts that were cut out due to character perspective of the poster.

[Hammersmith]

This may look like shameless self-promotion, but it's the most recent example I have of what you might call 'good' combat RP.  Starting with this post, the next few posts describe the lead up, battle, and resolution of a 10-man fight that was entirely unscripted and uncoordinated.  There were no rolls made and no OOC coordination save for "Be at in minutes".

 

I have the raw log as well if you want to see parts that were cut out due to character perspective of the poster.

See. Now I want to fight all of you. +w+

[Melkire]

This may look like shameless self-promotion, but it's the most recent example I have of what you might call 'good' combat RP. Starting with this post, the next few posts describe the lead up, battle, and resolution of a 10-man fight that was entirely unscripted and uncoordinated. There were no rolls made and no OOC coordination save for "Be at in minutes".

 

I have the raw log as well if you want to see parts that were cut out due to character perspective of the poster.

 

I have to write up the next post of this today, in between getting work done at the office. Coincidentally the same scene in which my character "nope'd" at two armored individuals.

 

Fight choreography....

 

/cry

[Khadan]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

[Gegenji]

Fight choreography....

 

/cry

 

That was actually my favorite part of writing in some of my older projects. Even in the Grindstone, I like to try and visual (and sometimes re-enact like a goober in my chair) the motions that the characters can do. It's just a desire to keep things moving that keeps me from spending more time on it. :blush:

 

There's something really enjoyable about when someone else reads the fight scene you've written and say how they can totally envision how it played out. I think that's what I try to go for - make it feel like that can and did happen.

[Domri Blackblade]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

[Khadan]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

 

u wot m8

[Gegenji]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

 

u wot m8

 

[Khadan]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

 

u wot m8

 

 

Last gif is accurate.

[Hammersmith]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

 

u wot m8

 

 

Last gif is accurate.

[ChewableMorphine]

To generalize it into the most tl;dr way possible. I present to you the three golden rules.

 

1. Thou shalt keepeth thy action open ended, lest you fail in your attempt to defend or attack
   
2. Thou shalt not proclaimeth thyself as God, for ye are merely a belligerent, and are equally likely to fail as your engaged partner.
   
3. Thou shalt placeth thy skill into the blessing of RNGsus, for he shalt guideth you to victory or defeat. Lest you chooseth to write upon your own epitaph or confirm thy victory in combat, consult thy belligerent for consent and proceed on agreed terms.
   

[align=center]In the name of the /random, the rolz, and the RNGsus[/align]

 

[align=center]Umbasa.[/align]

[Aaron]

[Domri Blackblade]

To generalize it into the most tl;dr way possible. I present to you the three golden rules.

 

1. Thou shalt keepeth thy action open ended, lest you fail in your attempt to defend or attack
   
2. Thou shalt not proclaimeth thyself as God, for ye are merely a belligerent, and are equally likely to fail as your engaged partner.
   
3. Thou shalt placeth thy skill into the blessing of RNGsus, for he shalt guideth you to victory or defeat. Lest you chooseth to write upon your own epitaph or confirm thy victory in combat, consult thy belligerent for consent and proceed on agreed terms.
   

[align=center]In the name of the /random, the rolz, and the RNGsus[/align]

 

[align=center]Umbasa.[/align]

 

I will always inherently disagree with roll battles. I think its fine for people who are less knowledgeable with fighting and basic anatomy, but most of the fights I do are not left up to rolls because fighting isn't 100% chance. I recognize, as do most of the people I actually RP fight with, that some things are not avoidable and some things are outright impossible anatomically.

 

Also, I like to recognize other people's higher prowess in combat RP and will RP to a lesser skill in fields my character has lesser skill. Rolls should be left up to chance and chance alone, if you ask me. Unless you are not confident in your own or your partner's abilities.

[ChewableMorphine]

To generalize it into the most tl;dr way possible. I present to you the three golden rules.

 

1. Thou shalt keepeth thy action open ended, lest you fail in your attempt to defend or attack
   
2. Thou shalt not proclaimeth thyself as God, for ye are merely a belligerent, and are equally likely to fail as your engaged partner.
   
3. Thou shalt placeth thy skill into the blessing of RNGsus, for he shalt guideth you to victory or defeat. Lest you chooseth to write upon your own epitaph or confirm thy victory in combat, consult thy belligerent for consent and proceed on agreed terms.
   

[align=center]In the name of the /random, the rolz, and the RNGsus[/align]

 

[align=center]Umbasa.[/align]

 

 

I will always inherently disagree with roll battles. I think its fine for people who are less knowledgeable with fighting and basic anatomy, but most of the fights I do are not left up to rolls because fighting isn't 100% chance. I recognize, as do most of the people I actually RP fight with, that some things are not avoidable and some things are outright impossible anatomically.

 

Also, I like to recognize other people's higher prowess in combat RP and will RP to a lesser skill in fields my character has lesser skill. Rolls should be left up to chance and chance alone, if you ask me. Unless you are not confident in your own or your partner's abilities.

 

I can super agree with you if I wasn't solely basing it off of RP fundamentals. Characters and whatnot are a different story, but I mean to touch up moreso on the fairness of an RP battle for both parties. In which rule three I claim that if it's fixed, talk about it and go about it accordingly.

[Domri Blackblade]

I can super agree with you if I wasn't solely basing it off of RP fundamentals. Characters and whatnot are a different story, but I mean to touch up moreso on the fairness of an RP battle for both parties. In which rule three I claim that if it's fixed, talk about it and go about it accordingly.

 

What are the fundamentals? I am fully capable of fighting fairly without the use of rolls as are others. And that's without outcomes being predetermined.

[Flashhelix]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

 

u wot m8

 

 

[Flashhelix]

ughhhh I haven't had a good RP fight in a long long time. Kinda seems a bit off topic but eh reading that people still enjoy it makes me happy. Coming from a community from *game that shall not be named* where RP fighting was practically a blacklisting offense? This is great. =)

 

 

fite me m8

 

u wot m8

 

 

[Hammersmith]

Rules

 

Chance

 

Rigged fights

 

I've not been the sort to do rolls in fights myself.  Actually I find that kind of a weird concept in what's inherently a free-form system and should be played between two people according to the char's inherent knowns.

 

With that said, I don't tend to throw down unless I know the person I'm playing with isn't a complete tool for the same reasons: I have to tell a story with you with fists, which is different from Word words words in it's consequences and complexity, often in ways that can be frustrating if one side refuses to roll with it, as it were.

 

So I'm with Domri on this one, but I can see why you'd use rolls and the like in a competitive (Grindstone) and neither side is a ringer.

[ChewableMorphine]

I can super agree with you if I wasn't solely basing it off of RP fundamentals. Characters and whatnot are a different story, but I mean to touch up moreso on the fairness of an RP battle for both parties. In which rule three I claim that if it's fixed, talk about it and go about it accordingly.

 

What are the fundamentals? I am fully capable of fighting fairly without the use of rolls as are others. And that's without outcomes being predetermined.

 

 I feel that if both parties can agree to just let it be chosen by /random, it can be arranged as such.

 

Say Chubby McFats goes against say... Th'Nakluk the God Slayer. Chubby would indisputably get his ass torn into a singularity through common sense. But if you really wanna have some fun with it (which I stress you consult your partner for a mutual agreement), let Chubby have a slim chance at it. Which I kinda wish there were number modifiers to allow a handicap. But you gotta work with what you got. 

 

And to be more clear I mean fundamentals more as a "let's all have fun here" quality assurance. I think my choice of words were kinda shitty. I do that a lot. My bad.