AST-related lore questions

[Goodfellow]

Alright, I know everyone is at a fever-pitch regarding the paucity of concrete lore around Heavensward and the new jobs...and so am I.  I have no judgment or counsel to offer.  But I at least would like to get as much of it in one place, for myself, as I'm able.

 

As I see it, there are two (maybe two-and-a-half) major (major!) lore areas where I'm uncertain/foggy when it comes to what little we know about astologians.

 

1) Sharlayan:  Astrologians aren't Ishgardian!  Who knew?  I know very little of Sharlayan's history beyond a vague idea of where the island is and that it is, more or less, the academic center of Eorzea, possibly Hydaelyn and the homeland of the Archons.

 

2) Astrology: What's an astrologian without an understanding of the stars in the sky?  What's the cosmology of FFXIV?  We all know a little about different planes/dimensions, namely the Void, Thal's Realm, etc., and we know that Hydaelyn is referred to not just as a "world", but as a "planet" as well.  That being said, what do we know about the universe?  I assume Hydaelyn is in a solar system of some sort, but is it Ptolemaic (concentric spheres, geocentric) or Copernican (the modern conception, heliocentric)?  Furthermore, are all the stars in the sky other stars with their own planets and corresponding systems?  

 

2a) We know the source of aether on Hydaelyn (Silvertear), but is aether a planetary (exclusive to Hydaelyn) or a universal phenomenon?  In other words, something aetheric is clearly going on with the astrologians' magic, but is it star- and planet-focused aether in some way?  Is it simply stellar geometries (planetary positions, constellations, etc.) that provide for some aetheric manipulation akin to arcanima, or do the stars and planets in the sky/universe also produce, have, or otherwise influence aether?

 

2b) On that subject, what do we know about the Eorzean Zodiac?  Do we know specific constellations or the names of individual stars or planets?

 

I can't imagine I'm the only one with these sorts of questions and I apologize if you've all discussed all of this ad nauseam and I've somehow managed to miss all of those threads.  From what I've read, I didn't think that I was starting a redundant thread, but what do I know?

 

Thanks, folks.

[Iex]

Not a helpful answer but:

 

I don't have a clue about any of those questions....

 

I am sure someone will come along with a better answer than:

 

"As lore is revealed and I am sure the quest chain for Ast. will reveal some."

 

Curious myself.

[Zhavi]

Not a helpful answer but:

 

I don't have a clue about any of those questions....

 

I am sure someone will come along with a better answer than:

 

"As lore is revealed and I am sure the quest chain for Ast. will reveal some."

 

Curious myself.

 

Ditto on this. Don't know, but am curious. I also haven't read any threads with in depth speculation on specifics about astrologians, but I am very, very interested in seeing some start!

[Sounsyy]

1) Sharlayan:  Astrologians aren't Ishgardian!  Who knew?  I know very little of Sharlayan's history beyond a vague idea of where the island is and that it is, more or less, the academic center of Eorzea, possibly Hydaelyn and the homeland of the Archons.

 

Sharlayan is a city-state located on the Northern Isles in the Bloodbrine Sea. It is not technically a part of Eorzea. At some point during the 6th Astral Era, Sharlayan emissaries colonized a region of northern Eorzea, west of Dravania to build an "Eorzean" Sharlayan city-state to further study the Eorzeans. Hence why there's an island Sharlayan and an inland Sharlayan that you see on the Eorzean Map. This second, Eorzean Sharlayan was abandoned shortly following the Fall of Ala Mhigo 20 years ago after peace negotiations with the Garlean Empire failed.

 

More details about Sharlayan can be read in this very informative Tales from the Calamity.

 

Also, I'll link the original post detailing the lore behind Astrologian jobs being Sharlayan and not Ishgardian... here.

 

 

2) Astrology: What's an astrologian without an understanding of the stars in the sky?  What's the cosmology of FFXIV?  We all know a little about different planes/dimensions, namely the Void, Thal's Realm, etc., and we know that Hydaelyn is referred to not just as a "world", but as a "planet" as well.  That being said, what do we know about the universe?  I assume Hydaelyn is in a solar system of some sort, but is it Ptolemaic (concentric spheres, geocentric) or Copernican (the modern conception, heliocentric)?  Furthermore, are all the stars in the sky other stars with their own planets and corresponding systems?

 

There are other planets and moons out there. Likely an entire solar system, but there is very little lore on it. The sun is Azeyma, the moon is Menphina. The former... lesser moon, which orbited Menphina was Dalamud or "Menphina's Hound." There was lore from 1.0 stating it was believed that the Red Moon got its name because the Hound was Menphina's divine protector, and that it would bathe the heavens red if an entity tried to harm Menphina. We know now, obviously, that Dalamud was not a real moon.

 

As far as astrology goes... that's honestly about all the lore we have. There are stars that have names and constellations per lore, but we don't know what their names are or what significance they might have. Hopefully lore will be addressed in Heavensward detailing these things specifically.

 

We do know that much of what Eorzea knows of astrology is from an Ishgardian named Adaunel the Younger, who lived some 300 years ago.

 

#69 - The Observatorium

Three hundred years ago, Ishgardian astrologian Adaunel the Younger convinced the Holy See that he could predict the comings and goings of the Dravanian Horde by studying the movements of the heavens, and thus secured funding for the construction of the First Dicasterial Observatorium of Aetherial and Astrological Phenomena and its grand astroscope.

 

Star Globe

A spherical map of the heavens based off of legendary Ishgardian astrologian Adaunel the Younger's lifetime of findings.

 

I'm sure we'll learn much more about him in Heavensward as well. Hopefully.

 

 

2b) On that subject, what do we know about the Eorzean Zodiac?  Do we know specific constellations or the names of individual stars or planets?

 

Like above, we don't know any constellations or such. Besides the fabled "Dragon Star" discovered by Adaunel the Younger 300 years ago, we don't really have many names for other celestial bodies yet.

 

As for the Eorzean Zodiac... I'll refer you to this older thread on the topic:

The Zodiac and Lalafell

 

Not entirely conclusive, but it may help until actual lore is presented. Hope this helps! ^^ But it's honestly one of those- just gotta wait for Heavensward -things. There's currently not much in the way of lore on any of this stuff yet. I've been looking. =x

[Goodfellow]

Sharlayan is a city-state located on the Northern Isles in the Bloodbrine Sea. It is not technically a part of Eorzea. At some point during the 6th Astral Era, Sharlayan emissaries colonized a region of northern Eorzea, west of Dravania to build an "Eorzean" Sharlayan city-state to further study the Eorzeans. Hence why there's an island Sharlayan and an inland Sharlayan that you see on the Eorzean Map. This second, Eorzean Sharlayan was abandoned shortly following the Fall of Ala Mhigo 20 years ago after peace negotiations with the Garlean Empire failed.

 

Oh Sounsyy, we can always count on you.  I figured details were scant, so I'll play the waiting game, but thanks for all the info you were able to offer.

 

A follow-up: would those Northern Isles be the same as the Sea Wolf homeland?  Not Sharlayan specifically, but would it be a part of the same island chain or archipelago that gave us our big salty roegadyns?

[Virella]

*flops about to add tiny bits not said yet*

 

Only constellation we now know of is the Halls of Halone. A silver star pattern within the sky.

 

 

*flops back out thread*

[Steel Wolf]

Considering the absolute mass of stars visible in a clear night sky, I'm surprised that Astrologians from either area can read ANY damn thing. Hydaelyn would appear to be damn well near the center of the universe.

 

I'm not going to roll the class (Steel is way too stooped), but I am very curious about how the lore will fill in.

[Sounsyy]

A follow-up: would those Northern Isles be the same as the Sea Wolf homeland?  Not Sharlayan specifically, but would it be a part of the same island chain or archipelago that gave us our big salty roegadyns?

 

Quite possibly, yes. Here's my reasoning:

Sharlayan is on an Isle in the North Seas. According to the Tales of the Calamity, the Students of Baldesion (who are Sharlayan) study at a place called the Studium. In the MSQ, the Students of Baldesion disappear with the entire "Isle of Val", yet, several patches later Moenbryda shows up from Sharlayan. Which leads me to believe that, like Limsa Lominsa, Sharlayan may be spread out over many islands. The main city-state might be on one, while its territory extends to the others.

 

I think the "Northern Isles" referred to in both Sea Wolf history and when Sharlayans speak of their homeland are one in the same. It's possible they are two separate island chains... but... it just seems kind of silly to say "We have Sharlayan on the Northern Isles, but if you go further north we have the More Northern Isles, and that's where Sea Wolves hail from."

[Aduu Avagnar]

From the Lore Panel:

Q: Are there any constellations in the night sky of Eorzea with any story to them?

 

A: Was planned for 1.0, there are constellations up there. Ishgard: astrologians, observatorium. Heavensward, will hear stories there. E.g. Monitor movements of the dragons by the Dragonstar.

#Pleaselookforwardstoit

[Goodfellow]

I haven't completed much of the AST questline yet, but already from the very beginning we're seeing constellations.  So, referring to my OP, I'm starting to see the blanks in question 2a and 2b being filled in.  Hopefully questions 1 and 2 will be answered by 60!

[Gegenji]

I only did the opening quest and the level 30 quest for AST before leaping back into MSQ progression, but the latter makes mention of a constellation at the very end of it - the Bole, a series of stars in the sky that symbolize a great tree. It also happens to be one of the cards you can draw from your deck (which gives a damage reduction buff!).

 

I haven't pushed any further yet - want to get SCH to 60 first before working on the other classes - but I wouldn't think it too far fetched to believe that the other cards are also matched to other constellations. So, there's likely constellations for the Balance, Arrow, Spear, Ewer, and Spire as well.

[Goodfellow]

Aha!  And in the 35 quest we get some more answers.  I'm not sure what will and won't be considered a spoiler from here on out, so I'll just tag it all.

 

 

 

"Astrologians of the Sharlayan School draw on the aether contained in the celestial bodies represented in the constellations by "unlocking" or "opening" the gate to heaven that constellation is correlated with.  There is no actual gate...think of it as more a portal to the soul.  You are opening your mind, allowing for attunement with these distant bodies, much like one attunes with an atheryte, but on a far grander scale."

 

"Now this may come as a revelation, but Hydaelyn is not flat like most believe."

 

So, we now know from the above that constellations do have aether and that the world is a spherical planet.  I still don't know if we're geocentric or heliocentric, but we're getting some good answers already at level 35!

 

[Goodfellow]

Has anyone been taking screenshots of the constellations as they're introduced in the questline?  I realized today that while I recognize them in the night sky, I have trouble remembering which is which.

[DreamedReality]

I unfortunately missed the Balance. So if anyone has that, that'd be lovely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Goodfellow]

Jaques, you magnificent bastard.  Thank you, that is enormously helpful.

[BearCave]

Well, I have the screenshot for the Balance constellation. 

But I'm not entirely sure how to insert it in the way that Jaques did, as I'm not very knowledgeable in the use of forums and such I'm afraid.

[BearCave]

So let's give this a shot. Here is the screenshot for the Balance constellation, thanks to Jaques for the assist on getting it posted!

 

[Goodfellow]

Wonderful, thanks to you too!

[Goodfellow]

So we know that the Arrow, Balance, Bole, Ewer, Spear, and Spire are the major arcana of the Sharlayan tarot (or whatever you want to cal it).  I was wondering meta-textually if any of these correspond at all clearly with the real-world tarot, the Tarot de Marseille.  That is to say, the Spire pretty clearly resembles the Tower of Earth's tarot, so I wanted to know if the other five had clear inspirations in that vein and, if so, what those cards mean or how they're typically interpreted. 

 

I know some people are using the actual tarot in their RP, and that's cool, but for us laymen who think that just six is a good starting point...

[Kaniko Niko]

While not related to the lore specifically, the planisphere or "star globe" seems to be very much based off the feng shui luopan, a magnetic compass that uses multiple plates to chart stars and leylines. A number of plates and dials are used to line up with the flow of chi and is most commonly used in divination.

 

As for the arcana themselves: the Seven Heavens.

 

The Spire is very much the Manipura "jeweled city" chakra. The Bole corresponds well to Muladhara, the root chakra. It's a little vague, but there are definite parallels between the six base chakras and the six arcana of the Astrologian. The seventh chakra is almost explained word for word with the Seventh Heaven, about opening oneself up to the power cosmic of the universe.

[Goodfellow]

While not related to the lore specifically, the planisphere or "star globe" seems to be very much based off the feng shui luopan, a magnetic compass that uses multiple plates to chart stars and leylines. A number of plates and dials are used to line up with the flow of chi and is most commonly used in divination.

 

As for the arcana themselves: the Seven Heavens.

 

The Spire is very much the Manipura "jeweled city" chakra. The Bole corresponds well to Muladhara, the root chakra. It's a little vague, but there are definite parallels between the six base chakras and the six arcana of the Astrologian. The seventh chakra is almost explained word for word with the Seventh Heaven, about opening oneself up to the power cosmic of the universe.

 

That's all an interesting take that I hadn't considered.  I noticed the parallels with the chakra, but I thought the Seven Heavens were more in keeping with the geocentric, Ptolemaic model, with there being on average seven translunary realms between the moon and the Primum Mobile.  I also took the planispheres and star globes to be more inspired by historical astrolabes and planispheres of astronomers and mariners with a more fantastical three-dimensional design.  Those being my thoughts, I naturally associated the cards with the historical tarot, but your insight is interesting and Lolotaru does always look for connections between aetheric schools, so an astromancy-arcanima-chakra connection works for me.

 

Your interpretation still leaves me a little in the dark for the purposes of cartomancy/fortune-telling, though.

[Kaniko Niko]

Your interpretation still leaves me a little in the dark for the purposes of cartomancy/fortune-telling, though.

 

I could be on to something. You could be on to something. But I think the true answer lies right here.