Let's talk about Valve new addiction to the Workshop

[Desu Nee]

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

 

I really feel this isn't really a Valve community, cause well, obviously, but I need someplace to vent and I have no friends. No amount of aspirines and bullets can quell the pain of my exist-

 

 

GETTING SIDEWAYS.

 

Honestly, I find this absolutely bollocks. I normally don't do big long posts because I really prefer to have short, easier to understand opinions, but honestly, this is Greenlight all over again. Modders aren't developers, some of them most times just takes textures already in the game and make over, and I say as a amateur modder. My mods are crap.

Not only that, but people will just throw garbage at the Workshop wanting to get paid and dissapear. The bundle of mods is as of now more expensive than the game itself and that's honestly an absurd.

 

Lastly, mods are a reflection of the passion of the community of the game, and this way you are just forcing people, and modders will just do out of profit instead of passion. It's honestly very concerning how many industries are pushing absurd things, and how they're becoming the rule nowadays.

 

 

 

 

Now, with the vent out of the way, I will return to try to find a way to ease my suffering...of dealing with Daily Roulettes Randoms.

[Coatleque]

Luckily, mods are not available exclusively through steam. You can find much better mods (and software to management), typically, through other sites such as nexusmods.

 

The best way to fight it is to simply not use Steam for mod management.

[Domri Blackblade]

... Why would I pay for (unfinished) animated fishing?

 

Wat? (This is like the Sims 3 nonsense all over again.)

 

There are much better places to get skyrim mods anyway, like the Nexus and independent modders. I've never used the workshop for it. Usually just scour blogs and whatnot for their download lists.

[Desu Nee]

Another point I forgot to made is the fact that popular mods, like iNeed and Wet and Cold have been updated only on Steam, where they're paid. The pattern of modders migrating to steam so they can set price on their mods is disturbing.

 

 

All of this could be better if they just set a fucking donate button.

[Melkire]

If they can find a way to charge you for it, they will do so. Water, for instance, is not free. The only reason air-to-breathe is free is because no one can keep you from doing so. No one has figured out how to restrict and limit access.

 

People have been decrying digital media as a method for distribution for a long, long time now when it comes to video games. Steam was an early point of contention. DRM ring a bell? I'm sure plenty of us remember the days of CD Keys.

 

Hell, I remember folks pirating Doom (1993) left, right, and center. So many illegal copies on floppies, you have no idea.

 

tl;dr: Speak with your wallet. Don't support what you feel shouldn't be supported.

[allgivenover]

I don't really see a problem with this, it's basically becoming third party DLC.

 

Mods are tough to make, they deserve it.

 

EDIT: Also, it doesn't look like anything Valve is making you do, it looks like something the individual developers are setting up, Valve is just facilitating it.

[Desu Nee]

Admittedly, I used Workshop more because the mods updated automatically. I don't even play Skyrim much these days, FFXIV filled my medieval-tech niche. I hope to god this shit dies before Fallout 4.

 

 

The idea of pirating mods is hilarious, tho.

[Coatleque]

... I forgot to made is the fact that popular mods, like iNeed and Wet and Cold have been updated only on Steam, where they're paid. The pattern of modders migrating to steam so they can set price on their mods is disturbing.

 

Then at least in my case, they will be sorely disappointed. The only "mods" I will ever pay for are released by the developer and had better include a hell of a lot of content (Like Hearthfire, if we're using Skyrim as the example)

[Desu Nee]

I don't really see a problem with this, it's basically becoming third party DLC.

 

Mods are tough to make, they deserve it.

For many mods, I understand. I donated to that one which is basically an expansion, Faarsomething.

 

 

But I'm not paying for a single new weapon. Or a re-skin. Or a half assed mod.

[allgivenover]

Then don't.

[Warren Castille]

I don't really see a problem with this, it's basically becoming third party DLC.

 

Mods are tough to make, they deserve it.

 

EDIT: Also, it doesn't look like anything Valve is making you do, it looks like something the individual developers are setting up, Valve is just facilitating it.

 

That's the interpretation I got. People who make mods probably got offered stacks of dosh to license/develop them for cost.

[Domri Blackblade]

Admittedly, I used Workshop more because the mods updated automatically. I don't even play Skyrim much these days, FFXIV filled my medieval-tech niche. I hope to god this shit dies before Fallout 4.

 

 

The idea of pirating mods is hilarious, tho.

 

It's actually a very big thing on Sims 3 since it is against the TOS to sell 3rd party mods. But people do it anyway. (Thesimsresource.) So there is actually a very large site that just offers that stuff for free.

[Desu Nee]

I don't really see a problem with this, it's basically becoming third party DLC.

 

Mods are tough to make, they deserve it.

 

EDIT: Also, it doesn't look like anything Valve is making you do, it looks like something the individual developers are setting up, Valve is just facilitating it.

The pay what you want never goes to free, but ok.

[Harmonixer]

Even as a modder myself, I don't have much good things to say on the subject.

 

Really it comes down to me going 'Well, I suppose.'

 

I know for certain that people who want to support good work will find ways to do it. This somehow 'spoils' the way it's worked for so long. I understand the intent is good, but the execution makes sort of go:

 

'Eh.'

 

I wish everyone the very best, but as stated earlier. Pay for what you want to support and lucky for us, there are plenty of people who want to be part of the community for little reward other than the virtue of being able to even do it in the first place.

 

I think some people deserve praise for what they do, but the thought to do something to gain something doesn't seem to sit well in my mind.

 

All the best to them, truly.

[Desu Nee]

In retrospect, my chosen title of the thread was bad. Really bad. Kneejerk reaction is awful.

I'm not good at making arguments, and I agree with a lot of points here, some modders do deserve to be rewarded with their results, and I donated to many modders pages and patreons, but this idea only works well on Paper. One just needs to see the Greenlight Page, and Early Access to know that this method just makes it harder to find good mods, because everyone will want a slice of the pie, and the drive for making mods will not only be just for the game, but for profit.

[Warren Castille]

Even as a modder myself, I don't have much good things to say on the subject.

 

Really it comes down to me going 'Well, I suppose.'

 

I know for certain that people who want to support good work will find ways to do it. This somehow 'spoils' the way it's worked for so long. I understand the intent is good, but the execution makes sort of go:

 

'Eh.'

 

I wish everyone the very best, but as stated earlier. Pay for what you want to support and lucky for us, there are plenty of people who want to be part of the community for little reward other than the virtue of being able to even do it in the first place.

 

I think some people deserve praise for what they do, but the thought to do something to gain something doesn't seem to sit well in my mind.

 

All the best to them, truly.

 

While I tend to always side with the free spirits doing it for the love of their craft, consider that at least 17 well-known modders decided to take a cut. Valve's not to blame if there's a market (or specifically, a supplier) for these things.

 

...maybe I'm wrong, though! Maybe this is an abstract ToS pull or something that renders mods as belonging to the developer or platform on which they're distributed. I didn't look into the litigiousness of it.

 

In the end, though: Valve can't sell you what people won't sell them.

[OttoVann]

God damn this thread is sad. So many people are outright raging because they literally feel entitled to mods for a game, something they didn't work to help create.

 

Don't pay for them if you don't want to, just don't act entitled about it either.

[Harmonixer]

Even as a modder myself, I don't have much good things to say on the subject.

 

Really it comes down to me going 'Well, I suppose.'

 

I know for certain that people who want to support good work will find ways to do it. This somehow 'spoils' the way it's worked for so long. I understand the intent is good, but the execution makes sort of go:

 

'Eh.'

 

I wish everyone the very best, but as stated earlier. Pay for what you want to support and lucky for us, there are plenty of people who want to be part of the community for little reward other than the virtue of being able to even do it in the first place.

 

I think some people deserve praise for what they do, but the thought to do something to gain something doesn't seem to sit well in my mind.

 

All the best to them, truly.

 

While I tend to always side with the free spirits doing it for the love of their craft, consider that at least 17 well-known modders decided to take a cut. Valve's not to blame if there's a market (or specifically, a supplier) for these things.

 

...maybe I'm wrong, though! Maybe this is an abstract ToS pull or something that renders mods as belonging to the developer or platform on which they're distributed. I didn't look into the litigiousness of it.

 

In the end, though: Valve can't sell you what people won't sell them.

 

And I don't fault them or valve for doing them, upon reflecting. There are plenty of people who don't quite feel comfortable with donating to paypals, and the like. This is a much more forward format for someone to be inspired to continue to do good work and balances out the effort required. Something like that anyway.

 

I think my 'fear' stems from the thought that people will think this is how it 'has' to be done. If that make any sense. It should always been a choice when. DLC is a sore subject for me, but I have strong opinions for jaded, selfish reasons.

 

Edit: It should be clear that I'm not flat out against it. I wouldn't change it given the chance. Just voicing a concern really.

[Desu Nee]

God damn this thread is sad.  So many people are outright raging because they literally feel entitled to mods for a game, something they didn't work to help create.  

 

Don't pay for them if you don't want to, just don't act entitled about it either.

I'm less worried about wanting all my mods free, and more about the reflections and ripples this will bring upon the modding community to be frank. Paying for a mod should be optional, to support them, as they are result of an individual love for the game. Not an expansion pack or new skin.

[Melkire]

God damn this thread is sad. So many people are outright raging because they literally feel entitled to mods for a game, something they didn't work to help create.

 

Don't pay for them if you don't want to, just don't act entitled about it either.

 

I invite you to take a look at Zandronum (and other, older source ports for Doom, Doom II, Heretic, Hexen, etc.) and FreeSpace 2 Source Code Project for wonderful examples and demos of what can be done and developed for a community by the community when both the tools and the end product are freely available to anyone and everyone.

 

There's no "entitlement" here, just sad resignation that large companies seek bigger profit margins.

[Nebbs]

Is there where people can get FFXIV mods?

[Desu Nee]

Is there where people can get FFXIV mods?

Highlander mount mod for Lalafels when :?

[OttoVann]

God damn this thread is sad. So many people are outright raging because they literally feel entitled to mods for a game, something they didn't work to help create.

 

Don't pay for them if you don't want to, just don't act entitled about it either.

 

I invite you to take a look at Zandronum (and other, older source ports for Doom, Doom II, Heretic, Hexen, etc.) and FreeSpace 2 Source Code Project for wonderful examples and demos of what can be done and developed for a community by the community when both the tools and the end product are freely available to anyone and everyone.

 

There's no "entitlement" here, just sad resignation that large companies seek bigger profit margins.

 

And I invite you to look at games like Dota2, and TeamFortress2, where cosmetics are made almost exclusively by the community and sold to the community. Almost no one here plays those games so consider the following:

 

Many, many artists quit their day jobs to make hats for those games. Because the monetization was there. "But modders did it in the past for free", okay. When you give people an avenue to earn money for their work put in, versus it always being free and relying on charity (which is rare, small, and hardly materializes) you can attract much more skilled people to mod for your game.

 

A lot of people who make cosmetics for games like Dota2 and TF2 make over six figures, easily. Anuxi is a good example. She would not have quit her day job, and she would not have made cosmetics that a lot of players fucking love without being able to have her work monetized. Thank god she was able to get paid for her work and keeps making a lot of stuff people want.

 

Sure, there will always be free mods, but lets be perfectly honest this thread is reflecting entitlement. Simply put. Its also ignoring the positive effects that this brings, like attracting people with real talent to mod for a game.

 

Times have changed, for the better.

[Melkire]

I don't really buy that argument when:

 

A. So many great artists are floundering for work & pay.

 

B. So many great modders (read: programmers) work for fun rather than profit.

 

C. So many artists and modders go into the video game industry professionally off the backs of free modding projects such as those that I've mentioned.

 

D. What constitutes and qualifies as "better" is purely subjective.

 

Think I'll bow out of this thread at this point.

[Desu Nee]

God damn this thread is sad.  So many people are outright raging because they literally feel entitled to mods for a game, something they didn't work to help create.  

 

Don't pay for them if you don't want to, just don't act entitled about it either.

 

I invite you to take a look at Zandronum (and other, older source ports for Doom, Doom II, Heretic, Hexen, etc.) and FreeSpace 2 Source Code Project for wonderful examples and demos of what can be done and developed for a community by the community when both the tools and the end product are freely available to anyone and everyone.

 

There's no "entitlement" here, just sad resignation that large companies seek bigger profit margins.

 

And I invite you to look at games like Dota2, and TeamFortress2, where cosmetics are made almost exclusively by the community and sold to the community.  Almost no one here plays those games so consider the following:

 

Many, many artists quit their day jobs to make hats for those games.  Because the monetization was there.  "But modders did it in the past for free", okay.  When you give people an avenue to earn money for their work put in, versus it always being free and relying on charity (which is rare, small, and hardly materializes) you can attract much more skilled people to mod for your game.  

 

A lot of people who make cosmetics for games like Dota2 and TF2 make over six figures, easily.  Anuxi is a good example.  She would not have quit her day job, and she would not have made cosmetics that a lot of players fucking love without being able to have her work monetized.  Thank god she was able to get paid for her work and keeps making a lot of stuff people want.

 

Sure, there will always be free mods, but lets be perfectly honest this thread is reflecting entitlement.  Simply put.  Its also ignoring the positive effects that this brings, like attracting people with real talent to mod for a game.

 

Times have changed, for the better.

That's very relative, because hats and cosmetics in Dota are that. Cosmetics. Completely optional things that influence very little on your game. I'm a ex-TF2 player so I'm aware of the example very well.

 

But in many games, specially Skyrim, mods actually expand upon the experience, and in many cases are almost necessary, like SKSE and SkyUI. Not having them, while ignorable, becomes very hard to return to the normal, and they naturally expand and influence the game a lot. As of now, the bundle of mods on Skyrim, a game that rely a lot nowadays on mods for it's experience, is almost two times the price of the game.