Disaster! SE just ruined your headcanon!

[ZoktaiKhor]

Look at the wiki comparing whats wrong and whats confirmeed see if i can change htings then roll a die to decide if i do

[Enla]

Accept it and move on. Maybe try and find a lee-way around it if it's possible, but if it's undeniable, unavoidable truth...well, some aspects of retcon are in order, I suppose.

 

This is pretty much how I handle it. The lore's theirs to define, and when we play in grey areas, the possibility of getting steamrolled always exists. When that happens, you have to find a workaround or retcon if you want to stick with the lore (and thereby maximize your RP opportunities).

 

Pretty much this, and most of the people I'm involved with on a regular RP basis aren't the kind of people to hold it against me if I retcon a few things about a character's background. That and I try to work with the lore as much as possible, rather than around it, so I'd feel too weird about keeping fanon when canon is actually available. I tend to also view RP backgrounds as fluid, much like how a character of a novel would be in the first few drafts. Yes I would expect some rigidity on the basic concepts, but if another idea pops up that works BETTER for the character then I have no issue either retconning my own works or watching other people do it to their own characters. It isn't as if we're all writing novels to be published where just one consistency can make or break the narrative. Though no matter what, if I'm going to make a change I always converse with the people I'm most involved with RP wise before implementing it. That way we're all on the same page and agree to the changes, and/or can discuss if they're even necessary.

[Temmi]

I thought long and hard about the OPs question, and honestly, I can't think of anything that SE could toss out there that would really impact my character.

 

She's just a simple Gridanian with a more-than-healthy fear of the Elementals that give her her powers of Conjury. Her conflict and intrigue is within herself. Every day, she fears and hates the same power that gives her her livelihood. That, combined with the fact that she sustained an injury which prevents her from pursuing other paths, keeps her in this fascinating whirlwind of insecurity and instability that is just enthralling to play out.

 

Maybe with future characters I'll toy with the grey areas in lore, but I guess I just don't see why it's necessary when one can make an enchanting story with what we already have.

[Blue]

When SE released the mail moogle quest that revealed the lore around Keeper Males, I was very pissed. I had built all of Jet'a and Blue's plots into the belief that Keeper's society worked as an amazon matriarchate, where males simply had the reversed role of women in patriarchal families (similar to the Mithran society in FFXI). So Jet'a and the males of the family were forbidden from going to hunt, using weapons, and the like, instead helping at the camp with leatherworking, cooking and carpentry. The superiority of females was and still is a big thing for Jet'a, which is basically the pillar of how all of his behavior works. And I like his character.

 

So, when the lore bomb fell (great timing on that SE, btw), I said fuck it and decided to not retcon anything. The Vann family still works how I had described it back in 2013, and other Keeper families can suck it and call them odd ducks if they want. I'm not erasing my character because of one pathetic side quest.

[Dat Oni]

I wouldn't know, because you see, if you are even in this situation, you have only yourself to blame.

 

To cry over SE ruining my headcanon would be like bitching that my fan-character for Harry Potter is no longer able to kill Harry himself because Voldemort turned out to be not so dead by the end of the first book. Who's story is this? Mine? Not quite.

 

This is why you didn't see me planning headcanons ahead of time. I knew SE's canon would come to butt heads against whatever I came up with. Planning ahead when the facts aren't even set in stone is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Altitis Acquired]

To be honest, I do think it's a rather douchebag move by Sqeenix to make such restrictions on the class lore.

 

"You can be a White Mage, but ONLY if you a Padjal (which you can't be) or if you are a Warrior of Light (which you can't be either)."

 

"You can be a Dragoon, but ONLY if you are an Elezen (or Hyur?) from Ishgard."

 

"You can be a Black Mage, but EVERYONE will hate you, because it is illegal."

 

"You can be a Dark Knight, but ONLY if you are one of the 12 that exists, and that means you HAVE to be that singular Warrior of Light chosen to be (which you cannot be)."

 

So yeah, I would rather bend the lore a bit and work around it rather than being an elitist about it, because as mentioned earlier, it is just too restrictive.

[Warren Castille]

I made that 12 Dark Knight thing up.

[SunTzu7]

... They killed what? Bastards. I'll hound them to the gates of hell and into perditions flames before I give my head canon up!

 

Nah but seriously, I'd work around it. 99% of my RP is improv anyway.

[Altitis Acquired]

I made that 12 Dark Knight thing up.

 

Oh, well, there you go.

I actually thought it t be true. Damn you for messing with my head!

 

But yeah, my point still stands though.

[Warren Castille]

I made that 12 Dark Knight thing up.

 

Oh, well, there you go.

I actually thought it t be true. Damn you for messing with my head!

 

Well, I made it up per se but my uncle works for Nintendo and he told me...

[Gone.]

This is one of those things I'm just really not concerned with. If Square Enix is willing to retcon their own retcons, then I don't think the onus really lies on the player base.

 

Besides, multiple canons can coexist. DC comics has been doing it for decades and it seems to be working out for them alright.

[FreelanceWizard]

To be honest, I do think it's a rather douchebag move by Sqeenix to make such restrictions on the class lore.

 

"You can be a White Mage, but ONLY if you a Padjal (which you can't be) or if you are a Warrior of Light (which you can't be either)."

 

"You can be a Dragoon, but ONLY if you are an Elezen (or Hyur?) from Ishgard."

 

"You can be a Black Mage, but EVERYONE will hate you, because it is illegal."

 

"You can be a Dark Knight, but ONLY if you are one of the 12 that exists, and that means you HAVE to be that singular Warrior of Light chosen to be (which you cannot be)."

 

So yeah, I would rather bend the lore a bit and work around it rather than being an elitist about it, because as mentioned earlier, it is just too restrictive.

 

By SE's own admission at the lore panel, one of the reasons they write the job stories that way is to give the player character that Chosen One feel. It's an unfortunate consequence of the desire of devs to make people feel special -- which is great in a single-player game and not so much in an MMO.

 

To me, at least, lore-bending is reasonable to achieve your character concept, so long as it's done carefully and with a solid, plausible narrative justification. Part of that is not trying to do too much and part of that is also staying within the lore as much as you can. For instance, I can see a talented adventuring conjurer coming across an Allagan device that teaches them how to use Succor, as it sees their pure heart. I can't see an avowed warrior who destroys and pillages suddenly waking up one day as the chosen of the elementals.

 

It's a bit of a different circumstance, though, if SE comes right out and says, "X is not possible, period" or "X must and is always done this particular way." Then again, that's quite rare; even in the WHM case, the lore panel offered a pair of outs ("There are other ways of getting white magic. There are other groups trying to revive white magic using nefarious means.").

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

It's a bit of a different circumstance, though, if SE comes right out and says, "X is not possible, period" or "X must and is always done this particular way." Then again, that's quite rare; even in the WHM case, the lore panel offered a pair of outs ("There are other ways of getting white magic. There are other groups trying to revive white magic using nefarious means.").

 

That's true.  I kind of wanted to point out that I do think SE regrets making WHM such a rigid "there can be only one" questline.  I don't think they'll do that in the future, as they got so much pushback on it (especially considering how open the original questline was, in terms of who could become a White Mage).

[Khadan]

I dunno, I find it to be far more impressive for someone to play within the boundaries of the given sandbox than intentionally breaking the walls of it to suit a desired narrative. True creativity is shaping your works with the tools that you're given; not outsourcing the product to China =P

 

That said, there's nothing wrong with some creative liberties here and there. I'm pretty sure every writer ever has done that.

[Melkire]

Quite a few of us have had this happen already, what with Limsa RP leading to world-building and vice-versa long before 2.4 dropped the Rogues' Guild and associated lore on us. Not wholly unexpected, to have our various headcannons kicked out from under us, and - as far as dealing with it goes - it was something we'd knowingly signed up for. That said, it was still a kick in the gut. Some folks retconned, some folks adjusted backstories and current RP, some folks handwaved, some folks ignored it completely, some are still utterly clueless about the contradictions that now exist between lore and their own RP since they haven't done the Rogue class quests yet... I think if you poll people who roleplay(ed) Lominsan characters or characters who spend a lot of time in Limsa, you'd get back a wide variety of approaches that run the whole gamut.

[Verad]

I dunno, I find it to be far more impressive for someone to play within the boundaries of the given sandbox than intentionally breaking the walls of it to suit a desired narrative. True creativity is shaping your works with the tools that you're given; not outsourcing the product to China =P

 

That said, there's nothing wrong with some creative liberties here and there. I'm pretty sure every writer ever has done that.

 

You discover that SE declares Dragoon fighting styles to be highly proscribed, and they have nothing to do with the Circle of Blades. It would be considered a terrible thing, in-setting, for such a character to have such a style, by lore, and no Temple Knight would ever use it. How do you retcon it?

[Aya]

Quite a few of us have had this happen already, what with Limsa RP leading to world-building and vice-versa long before 2.4 dropped the Rogues' Guild and associated lore on us. Not wholly unexpected, to have our various headcannons kicked out from under us, and - as far as dealing with it goes - it was something we'd knowingly signed up for. That said, it was still a kick in the gut. Some folks retconned, some folks adjusted backstories and current RP, some folks handwaved, some folks ignored it completely, some are still utterly clueless about the contradictions that now exist between lore and their own RP since they haven't done the Rogue class quests yet... I think if you poll people who roleplay(ed) Lominsan characters or characters who spend a lot of time in Limsa, you'd get back a wide variety of approaches that run the whole gamut.

Its really silly too.  I haven't seen all of the rogue quest lore so far, but what I have seen was very difficult to square with the concept of a pirate city.  I don't really get what they were going for, except that they want all of the class guilds to be good guys.

[ShoggMommy]

Star Wars and subsequently SWTOR recently went through this with Legends. It caused a lot of discomfort for people in SWTOR and even out of game. Ultimately it caused arguments and concerns within the community. I still think there are some discussions that happen especially after celebration 7.

 

It all comes down I think with the severity of the change. If it's so incredibly ridiculous like some things WoW has done, or contridictory and confusing I ignore it or just leave the subject vague. If it's something that makes sense, I will adjust where I see fit.

 

Personally in the case of canon change for SW I just identify as a Legacy rper. If for example they change chiss to be republic aligned, I would not change my character as it would completely obliterate the character. It is that ingrained. But this also comes from a change of the lore more than headcanon.

 

Tldr; it depends on what changes are made and I will adjust accordingly.

[Khadan]

I dunno, I find it to be far more impressive for someone to play within the boundaries of the given sandbox than intentionally breaking the walls of it to suit a desired narrative. True creativity is shaping your works with the tools that you're given; not outsourcing the product to China =P

 

That said, there's nothing wrong with some creative liberties here and there. I'm pretty sure every writer ever has done that.

 

You discover that SE declares Dragoon fighting styles to be highly proscribed, and they have nothing to do with the Circle of Blades. It would be considered a terrible thing, in-setting, for such a character to have such a style, by lore, and no Temple Knight would ever use it. How do you retcon it?

 

I would change it to whatever the proscribed style of fighting is in the lore, since, by the given example such a proscribed style of fighting would be highly detailed in said content drop. 

 

Adding to that it can simply be something passed down from father to son, too. It doesn't really change anything to do with the character and the back story is easily tailored to accommodate such a change.

 

I'd also be pretty surprised if SE ever did such a thing since 'fighting styles' in FF14 are almost all singularly based on the weapon rather than how that weapon is used. It's an extremely unlikely hypothetical but there you have it.

 

Also I see you perused my character wiki which makes you like... the fifth person in the world to do so lol. A couple points of clarification: the Circle of Blades was only taught in that group of Temple Knights as a means of perfect defense. Said group of Temple Knights were all wiped out due to a political betrayal. It is possible for the fighting style to be used with weapons other than sword-and-shield as it is a mindset more than a fighting style though it does favor the sword by virtue of its original design (La Destreza Spanish Fencing). Lastly there are only likely a small handful of surviving practitioners and only one of those is confirmed (Kayllen).

 

Regardless SE coming in to say "the TK's only fight THIS way and NO OTHER WAY", is not going to be a problem as I've taken all that into account beforehand. =)

[Verad]

 

I would change it to whatever the proscribed style of fighting is in the lore, since, by the given example such a proscribed style of fighting would be highly detailed in said content drop. 

 

Adding to that it can simply be something passed down from father to son, too. It doesn't really change anything to do with the character and the back story is easily tailored to accommodate such a change.

 

I'd also be pretty surprised if SE ever did such a thing since 'fighting styles' in FF14 are almost all singularly based on the weapon rather than how that weapon is used. It's an extremely unlikely hypothetical but there you have it.

 

Also I see you perused my character wiki which makes you like... the fifth person in the world to do so lol. A couple points of clarification: the Circle of Blades was only taught in that group of Temple Knights as a means of perfect defense. Said group of Temple Knights were all wiped out due to a political betrayal. It is possible for the fighting style to be used with weapons other than sword-and-shield as it is a mindset more than a fighting style though it does favor the sword by virtue of its original design (La Destreza Spanish Fencing). Lastly there are only likely a small handful of surviving practitioners and only one of those is confirmed (Kayllen).

 

Regardless SE coming in to say "the TK's only fight THIS way and NO OTHER WAY, is not going to be a problem as I've taken all that into account beforehand. =)

 

I have no interest in whether or not SE will or will not actually do this. The question is a hypothetical. Plausibility rarely matters.

 

That said, while you say it's a fighting style, your wiki also very clearly explains how it has a definite impact on a student's psychology, to the extent that you explicitly state its students have to learn not to think that way. If it turns out that the fighting style of the Temple Knights is one which similarly influences psychology to the extent that they are all, say, completely sincere and openly emotional in contrast to the absence of emotion that your current style describes, will Kayllen's psychology change to follow suit?

[allgivenover]

Bend the lore as far as you can without breaking it. But keep in mind that good lore bending won't ever get decimated by new lore, only slightly modified.

[Melkire]

Bend the lore as far as you can without breaking it. But keep in mind that good lore bending won't ever get decimated by new lore, only slightly modified.

 

How do we define "slightly"? The degree of modification will vary drastically with each case. Are we condemning certain degrees of lore-bending because they require significant overhauling/retooling to bring them back into line with each new lore dump?

[Yssen]

The fun part is that we are finding out more and more that things are not that rigid.

 

There are many Dragoons (Heavensward Trailer), there have been and are other WHMs besides the Padjal and the WoL (Y'shtola and Amdapoor Secrets), and so on.

 

It also works both in the opposite direction, we recently found out that Au Ra are not specifically draconic in lineage. Wildwoods found out in the Gelmorra Lore Bomb from a while back that they might have very much been in the wrong as far as their conflict with the Duskies goes. That same lore bomb, and other snippets have turned a Gridanian RPers idea that the Elementals are a force for good a bit on ear by talking about what they do, and revealing that they were not always in the Black Shroud. There are countless other examples going all the way back to 1.0 (hully crap, miqo culture. among other examples).

 

Lore is a living breathing thing. As the story of the game rolls on we will find out more and more stuff. More and more stuff will be hinted at. (We've been hearing that Garleans have third eyes since 1.0). We should all be prepared to be thrown sideways by Lore from time to time. What we should not do is deal in absolutes, and  commit to a strict stance because of those assumed absolutes. One just ends up being wrong in their strict stance half the time when that happens, and I have yet to see too many people say "Whoops I was wrong" at all when it happens. On either side of whatever issue. To pull an example from outside the FFXIV, no one saw a ton of support for R+L=J when they first read GoT. Several books, a show, and some re-reading with analysis a later and it is a widely supported theory. We must emphasize theory. We don't know for sure until it is in print. We exist in the same place with regard to the game's lore.

 

In conclusion we must be flexible. None of us knows all of anything. We didn't write any of this world, we just play in it and read it as the secrets come out. We all have theories, but none of us is more right than anyone else until we see it in print. We should remember this as we take stances on things.

[Khadan]

 

I would change it to whatever the proscribed style of fighting is in the lore, since, by the given example such a proscribed style of fighting would be highly detailed in said content drop. 

 

Adding to that it can simply be something passed down from father to son, too. It doesn't really change anything to do with the character and the back story is easily tailored to accommodate such a change.

 

I'd also be pretty surprised if SE ever did such a thing since 'fighting styles' in FF14 are almost all singularly based on the weapon rather than how that weapon is used. It's an extremely unlikely hypothetical but there you have it.

 

Also I see you perused my character wiki which makes you like... the fifth person in the world to do so lol. A couple points of clarification: the Circle of Blades was only taught in that group of Temple Knights as a means of perfect defense. Said group of Temple Knights were all wiped out due to a political betrayal. It is possible for the fighting style to be used with weapons other than sword-and-shield as it is a mindset more than a fighting style though it does favor the sword by virtue of its original design (La Destreza Spanish Fencing). Lastly there are only likely a small handful of surviving practitioners and only one of those is confirmed (Kayllen).

 

Regardless SE coming in to say "the TK's only fight THIS way and NO OTHER WAY, is not going to be a problem as I've taken all that into account beforehand. =)

 

I have no interest in whether or not SE will or will not actually do this. The question is a hypothetical. Plausibility rarely matters.

 

That said, while you say it's a fighting style, your wiki also very clearly explains how it has a definite impact on a student's psychology, to the extent that you explicitly state its students have to learn not to think that way. If it turns out that the fighting style of the Temple Knights is one which similarly influences psychology to the extent that they are all, say, completely sincere and openly emotional in contrast to the absence of emotion that your current style describes, will Kayllen's psychology change to follow suit?

 

Contrarily I'd submit that plausibility has a lot to do with it since you're delving into some drastic hyperbole in order to prove that, what? I would actually become upset if SE dropped a lore bomb that drastically affected my character? I wouldn't, ultimately it isn't that big of a deal because despite how some aspects of the character are pretty solid there's really nothing that could happen to him at this point that would ruin the character's narrative and story continuity due to extensive pre-planning beforehand. On a side note, your example would be an entirely unique 'style' in the wide world of martial pursuits, though I can appreciate your intent.

 

On to your question, though. I would say that his psychology wouldn't change nor would need to change. He's been out of the Temple Knights for nearly 6-7 years, at this point and having left under rather 'curious' circumstances his entire life away from Ishgard has been one of having to be someone he necessarily isn't. It would be of practically little-to-no effort to shift the narrative from the training necessitating his mental state to his circumstances being the reasons for it. Again, this comes from a lot of pre-planning and from using real life historical representations of both martial arts and psychology. =)

 

This discussion is pretty enjoyable, so far!

[Melkire]

The fun part is that we are finding out more and more that things are not that rigid.

 

There are many Dragoons (Heavensward Trailer), there have been and are other WHMs besides the Padjal and the WoL (Y'shtola and Amdapoor Secrets), and so on.

 

It also works both in the opposite direction, we recently found out that Au Ra are not specifically draconic in lineage. Wildwoods found out in the Gelmorra Lore Bomb from a while back that they might have very much been in the wrong as far as their conflict with the Duskies goes. That same lore bomb, and other snippets have turned a Gridanian RPers idea that the Elementals are a force for good a bit on ear by talking about what they do, and revealing that they were not always in the Black Shroud. There are countless other examples going all the way back to 1.0 (hully crap, miqo culture. among other examples).

 

Lore is a living breathing thing. As the story of the game rolls on we will find out more and more stuff. More and more stuff will be hinted at. (We've been hearing that Garleans have third eyes since 1.0). We should all be prepared to be thrown sideways by Lore from time to time. What we should not do is deal in absolutes, and  commit to a strict stance because of those assumed absolutes. One just ends up being wrong in their strict stance half the time when that happens, and I have yet to see too many people say "Whoops I was wrong" at all when it happens. On either side of whatever issue. To pull an example from outside the FFXIV, no one saw a ton of support for R+L=J when they first read GoT. Several books, a show, and some re-reading with analysis a later and it is a widely supported theory. We must emphasize theory. We don't know for sure until it is in print. We exist in the same place with regard to the game's lore.

 

In conclusion we must be flexible. None of us knows all of anything. We didn't write any of this world, we just play in it and read it as the secrets come out. We all have theories, but none of us is more right than anyone else until we see it in print. We should remember this as we take stances on things.

 

So to pose the writing prompt to you:

 

Let's say Square-Enix retcons out the old 1.0 lore regarding vengeance orders. Or maybe they expand on the lore and a mention comes up that Duskwight Elezen are not and have never been accepted into the Immortal Flames due to rampant racism. How would you handle adjustments to your character, their history, your headcanon, etc.?