Dungeon Anxiety

[Threndual]

Hah, this is my first play through of FFXIV And I chose a Warrior because A) Greataxs are bad ass and B) I heard they were one of the hardest classes to play and C) I enjoy tanking.

 

I realize I'm gonna get a LOT of stick of certain people for screwing up a lot in my first few weeks but the trick is to just not give a crap. People who get mad when they play games are just idiots who should take a step back and consider what it is they're getting mad about. That somebody somewhere in the world who they are playing with and will likely never meet made the pixels on his screen move in a way he didn't want them to.

 

Such a brilliant thing it get mad over.

[Winters Knight]

Generally do not have this anxiety, probably because I vastly prefer roles where I can have a larger impact and compensate for others mistakes. So I play healer and tank.

This is the reason I only play SMN DPS. Dat Battle-rez.

[LadyRochester]

I only get nervous because I let things bug me too much for too long.

Lately, there seems to be a rampant "blame the healer" mentality. While I usually don't have any problems healing, there are some instances that truly test my patience as a player. There was this one particular situation where the tank was facing mobs towards the party, kept losing aggro to me and the dragoon, and the monk just stood in EVERY aoe in boss fights. Dragoon and I were fine, but the other two were extremely annoying to work with. We wiped on the last boss twice because of the monk's lack of dps and the fact he kept dying. At the end of the run, mnk went "healer was horrible" and left.

 

Drg said I was fine and tha the two were being shitty.

But of course, I, as the healer, am to blame for their mistakes.

 

I wish I could say this happened once, but while this is rare, it does happen, and situations like this deeply upset me and turn me off from pugging any PvE content.

 

Despite being an unpopular opinion, this is one of the reason I wish for in-game parsers, so people were able to see how they are performing before they point fingers at others. I, as a player, appreciate constructive criticism when I see it's accurate, but I know many don't agree.

[Manari]

I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I used to tank all the time in FFXI and I never felt much anxiety, in fact I really enjoyed it. But it wasn't difficult compared to what we have to do as tanks in FFXIV. I actually started maining Warrior at the very beginning of 2.0 and I did it for a long time. But eventually the pressure started to wear on me and I hated being in the spotlight for every mistake I made.

 

What I started doing back then (I had all jobs at 50 already from 1.0) was doing all the dungeons as healer first to learn them, then tanking them later after having a better understanding. But I understand that it's not that easy in 3.0 with the level cap raised. Honestly I've been thinking about getting back into tanking eventually once the flood of tanks lowers it's tide again.

[Hammersmith]

As a tank main: It's usually pretty chill.  Pull, make all the hate, continue.  Adjust if you die.

 

I've only really had problems when people decide to do my job for me and go pulling, or purposely focusing things they shouldn't have.

 

That's a paddlin.  Normally gets their ass kicked though.

[Kage]

I feel a lot less stress about tanking than I used, especially as a Warrior. I honestly do not know if I am doing ok, better or if my healers are just making up for my lack of proper cooldown usage. (Most of the time, their MP is good, they're allowed to do some DPS. Some AST and SCH while I leveled in Library scared me though One would let my HP go to 5k)

 

I used to BLM everything first, then SCH, then tank. I switched to SCH main in Heavensward, then WAR'd to 60 and now I'm starting to level BLM.

 

I think if you feel a lot of pressure, you can go non-tank first. Honestly, if you're using some cooldowns, not standing in every aoe, and keeping hate, I'm not going to really care about your performance as a tank. If you're new, say so. I wouldn't expect you to know the intricacies of the pulls etc but I will expect hate to not be lost or not standing in aoes. Some things are 'basic'. Knowing what to do in each dungeon when new? Not expected.

[Addison]

As a healer, I definitely feel the anxiety.

 

I think I'm going to start hunting for a static, because while the majority of people in this thread don't seem to have issues, I seem to always get stuck with the diva 'too cool for school' tanks who don't want to wait for MP, pull while I'm watching a cutscene, then bitch when I state that I've never done dungeon A.

[Griffith!]

Well, I'm free.

[Jean L]

I don't see a point in being a complete asshole for no reason. People in my experience generally listen when you give advice, there's just a certain way to go about it without sounding confrontational or snippy. Like today I got in a party with two people who hadn't gotten their soul stones at a point when they should and both me and the other DPS explained nicely about the stones and how they'll help them out. Everyone was polite even if we didn't get the dungeon done in the end. 

 

I main drg and sometimes I lag while dodging but I haven't gotten verbally (textally???) abused for it. Still, I'm anxious to take damage because people can be really nasty towards DRGs from what I've seen when I mained BRD. (though that was in raids)

 

I straight up got yelled at for rolling need on something that I did need. (it was the battlemages hat) The guy never even said that he needed it. :l I think most of all I hate people that yell at people over things that they never even bothered to bring up like loot claims. (unless I'm running repeatedly for something I absolutely NEED I'm generally open to giving up claims for non-drg specified gear)

[Blue]

I get Guildhest anxiety more than dungeon anxiety, personally. Because I just know 90% of people participating will look for dumb ways to ignore mechanics.

 

From DPSs ignoring Bubbles in More than a Feeler (ughhh!)

 

To people killing gargoyles separatedly in Ward up (ughhhhhhh...!)

 

To the occasional, rare dumbass who kills the gil turtle in Hero of Halfshell (gaaaahhh!)

 

And of course, the moment you try to give directions, you're branded as asshole, no matter how many "please" you put in your sentence. :dodgy:

[Darien Cadell]

How much stress I feel in the dungeon queue is directly related to how stressed I am outside the game. It's almost... odd how intensely that works for me. If I'm feeling good otherwise, I don't even bat an eyelash. But if I'm not? I can end up jumping in and out of the queue freaking out about whether or not I really want to do it. And it doesn't even matter which role I'm doing. Well, tanking's worse these days, but I started as tank main, and there was a time where even that didn't make me flinch.

 

I rarely say a word in groups, unless pushed to do so, whether they're bad or good. If they're bad, I just won't give any commendations. That's as far as my criticism goes. On this side of the keyboard, I'll cuss up a storm, but otherwise, it's not worth getting into it, and my silence never seems to hurt anything.

 

Before there were random queues, I'd heal&tank for 3 DPS in the junior dungeons, just because people were desperate to get into them any possible way. As a healer, I feel like I can push all but the very worst groups through all but the very worst messes, so that helps ease anxiety. Doing the other roles, I have to rely on other people more, so it's less gentle feeling getting into the queue.

[Griffith!]

The funny thing is, I don't get this anxious over tanking in any other game - although, admittedly, tanking was never my thing in WoW, where my focus was overwhelmingly PvP, and I was only ever occasionally a tank in FFXI (where I mained Samurai as soon as it became available.)

 

I think I might level another class for awhile and see how I feel about DPS. It's just too bad the only sword classes are tanks. I suppose I could try rogue/ninja. The only problem is, how very low all of my other class levels are. I mean, I just got Paladin to a reasonable place.

[Cliodhna Eoghan]

there's good and bad pugs.....then there's awful pugs that make me wanna eat that half hour wait time before going back in. if you've been getting a string of bad pugs lately, you'd prolly be better off trying to find some people to run with on a regular basis. even if it's one or two; knowing they have your back cuts down on the stress.

 

if you're still interested in leveling a dps to try; get them to run with you as well if possible simply because changing "roles" can cause stress too until you get more comfortable running as that class.

[Enla]

I get anxious in dungeons for reasons that have nothing to do with the game. Namely because Murphy's Law seems to love sending people to ask my to do things as soon as I start a run even though I checked with them not ten minutes prior to make sure I have some time to myself. :dodgy: Add onto that the fact that as a healer you are the most likely to get blamed for a bad run and dungeons are never my cup of tea at the best of times. However I've found that so long as I pace myself it isn't too hard to do more than three a day if I truly need the resources that can be gotten from them. Take frequent breaks, if you need to go slow tell people ahead of time and let the jerks sort themselves out. Never -ever- sacrifice your personal well being to get a dungeon done.

[Griffith!]

I was really nervous going into Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium, but turns out I didn't have to be. The party just ran through the thing while I sat there watching cutscenes. They finished both dungeons before I'd made it all the way through the cutscenes. I never even saw a single fight.

 

I actually feel a little cheated. I mean, my first time through both dungeons, the capstone to the MSQ in 2.0, and I didn't get to fight a single boss. I even told everyone it was my first time and I'd like to see the scenes. The other tank replied "just hit esc". Apparently, though, they didn't need me even a little.

 

I almost never blame the healer. Usually, they're just doing their best and I don't always make it easy on them. In fact, when I'm handing out commendations, I usually give it to the healer. I think. I don't have the numbers to support that claim.

 

The problem I'm having lately is DPS pulling hate off me and telling me to "flash more". I'm just following the rotation. I flash every four skills, on average (barring use of Shield Bash or Shield Swipe) - I mean, pull with Shield Lob, Flash Twice, Circle of Scorn, Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone, Flash, and repeat from Fast Blade. Every second combo, Circle of Scorn again. Each rotation takes like twelve seconds. What, am I supposed to flash every time it's available? Every 2.5 seconds, like some kinda maniac? I dunno, I've gone off point here.

 

[Jariana]

I can definitely understand feeling anxious about running dungeons, especially when they are new and the mechanics are a bit fuzzy. Admittedly my counter to that is to over prepare both in and out of game. I'll look up every mechanic, watch multiple videos and even annoy various friends for pointers. In game I'm a huge fan of trying to overgear content, even when leveling. I figure that as a tank I'm a bit of a lynchpin, so making sure that pin is as strong as possible is helpful.

 

[spoiler=As a bit of an off-topic response to the off-topic ranting... ]

The problem I'm having lately is DPS pulling hate off me and telling me to "flash more". I'm just following the rotation. I flash every four skills, on average (barring use of Shield Bash or Shield Swipe) - I mean, pull with Shield Lob, Flash Twice, Circle of Scorn, Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone, Flash, and repeat from Fast Blade. Every second combo, Circle of Scorn again. Each rotation takes like twelve seconds. What, am I supposed to flash every time it's available? Every 2.5 seconds, like some kinda maniac? I dunno, I've gone off point here.

 

 

I've been hearing the "Flash moar" complaint from several people lately, healers and dps both. To be honest, Flash is likely not the full answer though.

 

Looking at your rotation there, I would be curious as to how you are using your off Global CD abilities like Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within. Weaving those in between attacks rather than setting them into a set rotation can be helpful in your threat output. Personally I also prioritize Circle over Flash because it actually does damage as well.

 

Another question would be less about rotation and more about targeting. When you're working through a group of mobs, do you focus on one enemy or tab around? To be honest, I find the second option much more useful in holding a group down as a paladin. This is mainly because while Flash is great for getting some low-level enmity on everything, nothing beats actually smacking the mobs around a bit.

 

So for example on a three mob pull, I often would Shield Lob, run in, Circle of Scorn/Flash, Halone Combo on the primary target, tab to a secondary target, Fast Blade, Savage Blade (to get Savage's enmity boost), tab to the third mob, Rage of Halone, Flash as needed, tab back to primary, etc. This also requires me to keep a close eye on the enmity meters as I tab about, just in case a dps or healer is spiking there.

 

Admittedly I haven't played PLD much in the expansion (DRK has grabbed my attention lately) and the class's new combos may change this a bit, but consider getting nice and violent with the mobs instead of just relying on Flash to hold threat on the off targets.

 

 

[Griffith!]

I always over-prepare - it's why I get insulted when somebody suggests I don't know my job. I know my job - I've already read three different guides and watched five videos from different perspectives. Trust me, if I mess up it's because I suck, not because I don't know my job.

 

I use Spirits Within whenever it's up - I just kind of insert it into the rotation wherever I happen to be. Circle of Scorn has a 25 second cooldown, so I usually just use it every other full rotation - Fast Blade through Flash twice and then Circle of Scorn. In numbers, there's a 2.5 second cooldown on each of those skills, so it takes 20 seconds to get through a full rotation (give or take a second or two for discrepancy and player error). With the occasional Shield Swipe or Bash and the Spirits Within, it usually works out to about 25 seconds.

 

I switch targets in large groups, though usually only after a full rotation (Fast Blade through Flash) on one target - in groups of just two or three mobs, I tend to focus on one target and only switch off if I notice enmity lagging or if the DPS is focused on a mob I didn't mark.

 

But that's all more or less in theory. In game, there's add grabbing and positioning and canceling enemy attacks and dodging AoEs and those dozen other things you have to watch out for, so admittedly, I'm not always great. I panic and lose focus, or I get too tunnel-vision on one aspect and mess up another. Usual, panicky, by the seat of the pants stuff.

 

My original rant wasn't really an accurate reflection of play, though - I was just citing the basic, barebones rotation and therefore, how often I actually flash (roughly once every eight to twelve seconds) as a counterpoint to the contention that I should flash more.

[Boo the Hamster]

Off-Topic Ranting

The problem I'm having lately is DPS pulling hate off me and telling me to "flash more". I'm just following the rotation. I flash every four skills, on average (barring use of Shield Bash or Shield Swipe) - I mean, pull with Shield Lob, Flash Twice, Circle of Scorn, Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone, Flash, and repeat from Fast Blade. Every second combo, Circle of Scorn again. Each rotation takes like twelve seconds. What, am I supposed to flash every time it's available? Every 2.5 seconds, like some kinda maniac? I dunno, I've gone off point here.

 

 

Sounds like they have more gear than you as well as some inefficiency.  Even with the shield swipe buffs, shield swipe is not good for enmity generation at 50 and above, and shouldn't be used unless you are dry on TP.  If you're doing level 50 content, I usually do Flash>Circle of Scorn>Fast>Savage>Rage on priority tank target.  That's usually enough.  See what dps are hitting first. If they're aoe'ing, then yes, your best bet is to spam flash.  If they're single targetting, do the above and see if that changes anything. 'Flash moar' is something only the ignorant would say on single target, since it generates less threat than your 1-2-3.

 

What's your item level on paladin?

 

As to stress? I don't feel stress unless I'm in raid content anymore. Dungeons are dungeons, and expecting to hold aggro against people in raid gear is not something I would expect if I am in greens or blues that are not from the latest raid or gear with an equal ilvl. Of course, I don't have a tank leveled to 60 yet so I can't say what it's like then, but I've seen no issues outside of Dragoons who do the optimal rotation. They rip threat like nobody's business.

[Griffith!]

My item level is only 75. So pretty low, I know. A lot of people have out-geared me, but I have slacked off a lot on my main since I decided to take a break from tanking. It's just not easy to catch up, especially when you're dreading instances.

[MostlyAwol]

As a tank in most MMOs I played I get this and mostly due to WoW and pugs. I hate it. I quit WoW and played other games to come back to FFXIV (Well Neverwinter Online first) on a friends request only to find out I will be required to run dungeons to advance. I don't regret it but hate every time I have to go to Duty Finder for the next group activity. Doesn't matter how often I watch Youtube videos or run the dungeon its the silent judging that I believe is coming from 3 other strangers in the game.

 

Yes I know it stupid especially when I've been told many times I'm a good tank by many people. I do get over it though as I want to continue to see this game but I do limit how often I do it. Now with friends or Company mates I don't have this issue even if the company mates are complete strangers.

[Boo the Hamster]

My item level is only 75. So pretty low, I know. A lot of people have out-geared me, but I have slacked off a lot on my main since I decided to take a break from tanking. It's just not easy to catch up, especially when you're dreading instances.

Yea, my best bet for you is to try out a different role until you can gear up your tank, or get used to the fact that you will not be able to hold aggro.  Item level 75 is abysmally low, so low that it is impossible for you to hold aggro if anyone is near item level 105 or above.  That's just reality. If you can find people who are willing to craft tank gear that is around i100 if you want to go back into tanking soon, it will help you a lot. I would suggest getting your relic weapon and upgrading it to zenith. Your weapon is the most important upgrade for holding threat, so it will not be much, but it will help.

 

As something for you to keep in mind, your goal should be at least one patch behind content. I doubt most people will be able to go through savage alexander, so your goal whenever you hit 60 with your tank should be at least i155ish. It sounds like a lot, but it's doable.

 

There is one thing to keep in mind though. It is not your fault that you cannot hold aggro, it is your lack of gear. That will be fixed in time if you keep doing what you're doing as a tank, and the ease of play with higher gear will help your stress with tanking.

[Arik]

I absolutely feel your pain on this. 

 

While I realize that the *vast majority* of people one will encounter using the Duty Finder will be polite and forgiving (especially if you're open to tips and aren't making the same basic mistakes over and over again), there are those few bad apples that ruin the fun of it. Especially for those of us who have anxiety issues even out of game. The idea of even potentially running into one of those folks is enough to turn us off to PUGs all together. While some people can brush that sort of thing off without it affecting them, not everyone is hardwired the same way.

 

In my own case, I've see the worst of the worst of the MMO community from working as a customer support rep for one of the major titles for over two years. Often times, at that job, I mostly had to contend with those very people-- the trolls, the ragers, the keyboard-gangsters who, when they're online, will say some of the meanest, nastiest things because they're safe behind a monitor and have themselves convinced they won't be held accountable.

 

I honestly think it was that work experience, more so than ANY of the bad PUGs I'd actually dealt with, that wound up sapping what little patience I had left for those kind of people in general. These days, I've developed such an aversion to that type of personality that tools like the Duty Finder are all but ruined for me, even though the logical part of my brain is completely aware of the fact that the ARR community is significantly less toxic than the game I used to work for and that it's not likely I'll run into those sorts regularly. Yet every time I think about queueing up for a random, I work myself up like crazy thinking "but what if I get one of *those* sort of groups? What if I make a mistake?" And then, ironically, "What if I'm so stressed out I just suck??" (as I often do, because I've worked myself up so much! It's a vicious cycle.) It's positively unnecessary of me, but yet I can't help but do it. D<

 

In FF, I've just been fortunate in having joined up with a bunch of friends who I can run the content with and who can tolerate my aversions (luckily, I seem to be a decent enough tank that they put up with me and regularly feel the need to vent to me about the awful and/or rude PUG tanks that THEY'VE dealt with via DF, haha). That said, I'm aware of how only playing with one group can mean missing out on some learning opportunities, and I have been trying to wean myself back into randoms for that reason. 

 

TL;DR: Hang in there! You're definitely not alone in having these anxieties. For some people, it's super easy to brush off and move on like nothing happened-- but it's okay if you're not one of those people who can naturally do so. We're all hardwired a little differently and all we can do is our best while trying to stay open to ways we can improve.