Let's talk Godmoding

[Aduu Avagnar]

I personally disagree with the quote in question.

 

You can't enforce suspension of disbelief. And not agreeing with someone elses intepretation of the lore and setting is an expected part of rp, especially in an mmo where so much is left unexplained.

 

As to the fight, I tend to just go with my routine style and allow the oponent to describe what happens as the result. For example:

 

Nako sets his feet and brings his shield in low, angling it so that the blow slides off the surface. His sword traces an arc through the air, aimed at his oponents exposed elbow.

The only thing I have done which is a direct interaction is complete the action of the oponents attack, which is an expected part of fight rp. No god modding involved, and the oponent can apply their own physics to their next emote.

 

Interpretation of setting and the application thereof is not the same as forcing your will upon anothers character.

[Yssen]

I think there is a little bit of a difference between godmoding and failure to compromise. 

 

Godmoding is set specifically making one's character untouchable regardless of the player's interpretation of the setting/lore. This behavior usually stems from a single player.

 

Failure to compromise stems from a both players inability to reconcile different views of the setting. This can bee seen as a failure on the part of one player, the other, or both. 

 

Someone interpreting the setting differently from you is not godmoding, no matter what power level they (or you) might believe to be the average for most PCs. Forcing a world particular world view on others (particularly when there is no way to be right and no way to be wrong) is a slightly different issue than godmoding. You either engage in compromise to let the RP flow, or you do not. You cannot, however, point the finger of godmoding at another player when you yourself are unwilling to compromise in a given situation.

 

Just my two cents.

[Tiergan]

Two people are fighting one another. One is super over the top, complete with Tekken-style air juggling. The other is a gritty, super-duper-realism fighter.

 

So if the over-the-top style attempts to uppercut the gritty style into the sun, which result should be permitted? Does the gritty person godmode a result by only allowing themselves to be hit and nothing else? Does the over-the-top person godmode by forcing the other person to deal with cartoon physics?

 

As one of those "gritty" fighters who has (on multiple occasions) been subjected to Crouching Tiger physics, I can say first hand that compromises are necessary to make the experience not awkward for both parties.

 

Sounsyy's entire character concept is designed to be a rather grounded person in most aspects. This includes fighting. She's weak aetherically, she gets fatigued, she can't jump to save her life - let alone do acrobatics. She's not a gymnast. But I recognize this isn't a concept that everyone will adopt. In the setting, there are extraordinary figures and there are the Red Shirt guys, often in the same cutscene. Roleplayers fall into many places on this spectrum. Eventually (if you're doing tournament style fighting like Grindstone) you're going to come across someone who's physics settings are wildly outside your own.

 

The only thing I know to do in that situation is to discuss it with your partner if it's so left field from what you're willing to expose your character to. (I might expect to be flung 20 yalms if Sounsyy was struck by Leviathan's tail or something, not by a Midlander's right hook.) If the attack is more vague on what exactly its intention is, I don't see the problem in warping the effects to something more middle-ground. For instance, I (personally) find it hard to believe a Highlander could do a front flip onto Sounsyy's sword and land there anime style. More improbable is that Sounsyy... could hold that. So, if they win the roll, they will land on Sounsyy's blade... and Sounsyy will drop them.

 

^^^^^^ Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. Or if the two fight styles are completely irreconcilable (I'm more in the gritty-realism camp and other guy is Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Meets Goku and Naruto's secret love child) - I just find excuses for Tiergan never to fight them or just outright admit that I don't think our RP styles are compatible for fighting.

 

Server's big enough for me to find folks I do enjoy combat RP with after all.

[Paradox]

As far as the two suspensions of disbelief meeting in the middle, one simply has to look at Final Fantasy XIV's laws of physics and combat to find what is and isn't possible. And that is..that it's inconsistent. We often see massive feats of strength and magic, and not just form the WoL, but from many individuals. The fact is, the game is cinematic, anime-styled, and very very Japanese. Thancred does a lot of high flying acrobatic stuff, people fling fire from their fingers, we have an empire that's kind of like the Empire from Star Wars lite version mixed with the Gestahl Empire from FFVI. But we also see those sometimes superhumans beaten when they shouldn't be, or not using that strength or magic at certain intervals when it would be useful to advance the plot along. As far as Godmodding. Well, it's fairly cut and dry. What was described by the OP is more about 'style' than 'godmodding'. Someone prefers to disregard all the anime style fighting the game presents is entirely feasible by lore because they're not comfortable with it. Another does use it because it has precedent. That's up to them to figure out in method and flow. That's clashing styles. It just requires compromise, or the ability to recognize compromise isn't possible.

 

Godmodding is a lot easier to deal with. If my character casts a spell to drop a meteor on your head without any way of disengaging from the attack, forcing your character to take the entire hit, that's godmodding. If he casts a spell to drop a meteor on your head but leaves several avenues of escape that still might result in you getting some burns or scrapes or damage, that's more feasible. Yes, you can dodge a spell, a sword, a bullet, what have you, but it's important to remember you can't dodge *all* the time. That's the tricky part about godmodding, at least in combat. You have the right to avoid an attack and not have the *full* effect forced on you. However, dodging all the time to *no* effect against you is as equally godmoddy. It's fine to fully dodge some of the time, because if you didn't, fights would be over way too fast. There's an example in the MSQ of a protect type effect completely nullifying (What I assume at least) the impact of a normal bullet. Ultimately, in a battle, we should expect our attacks to have some effect on the other individual, without the end result being written for them, by us. Barriers should have a number of hits allowed, or a precentage of damage allowed in, based on the scale of the attack, and so on.

 

What it comes down to is, use good judgment, and all shall be well. Don't write people's responses or damage for them. Let them answer creatively and have both sides expect acknowledgment of effects from attacks on either side, otherwise it's not a battle. Godmodding out of combat is a no no as well. If you're pickpocketing someone, they have a chance to notice. Don't just do something and call it law without giving them a chance to respond. The story has many writers, after all. Otherwise, why interact at all?

[Caspar]

I think there is a little bit of a difference between godmoding and failure to compromise. 

 

Godmoding is set specifically making one's character untouchable regardless of the player's interpretation of the setting/lore. This behavior usually stems from a single player.

 

Failure to compromise stems from a both players inability to reconcile different views of the setting. This can bee seen as a failure on the part of one player, the other, or both. 

 

Someone interpreting the setting differently from you is not godmoding, no matter what power level they (or you) might believe to be the average for most PCs. Forcing a world particular world view on others (particularly when there is no way to be right and no way to be wrong) is a slightly different issue than godmoding. You either engage in compromise to let the RP flow, or you do not. You cannot, however, point the finger of godmoding at another player when you yourself are unwilling to compromise in a given situation.

 

Just my two cents.

I think Warren removing the quote from the context confused people. I stated that some were judging before playing with the other person what their character's race could and couldn't do and reacting based on that, rather than based off of what the player themselves was doing, and I felt that was godmodding, because A. It doesn't have solid basis in the lore no matter how "realistic" you think it is, and B. it disregards the other player's background, actions and intent.

 

Assuming what another character can do based off the information you have and not necessarily enforcing it on them, or using open ended posts to allow them to play differently than you to a certain extent, or even avoiding playing with them if you think you're incompatible; I definitely agree all these things cannot be considered godmoding, but they're different than the scenario I originally described.

[Naunet]

For instance, I (personally) find it hard to believe a Highlander could do a front flip onto Sounsyy's sword and land there anime style. More improbable is that Sounsyy... could hold that. So, if they win the roll, they will land on Sounsyy's blade... and Sounsyy will drop them.

 

Ahahaha. I only have one character who is capable of fighting, and then it's pretty much been restricted to altercations with a very specific set of characters (he doesn't really like to fight) who are controlled by players I've known for forever and trust intrinsically with my own. The other one... well, she'll panic and either get hurt real bad or try to hide it out.

 

But that sword thing. Haha! Very smart.

[Kaiz]

Final Fantasy is pretty over-the-top already. Characters can be pretty crazy and will probably fit the setting more than anything. I haven't done any RP fighting in this game, but I would expect that my character could realistically do most of the things he does in a battle.

[Gargand]

With strangers, rolls are the only thing that keep people honest. I have met very few roleplayers who are willing to take a hit and do an interesting back and forth in text based combat.

[Hali]

While I personally love the honour system, unfortunately it very infrequently works since few people want to see their characters hurt in any way. Granted, there are exceptions to this, and I'd like to think of myself as being one of them. Regardless...

 

I should think it doesn't quite matter whether style or "suspensions of disbelief" clash. Some people see Final Fantasy as a chance to RP crazy anime physics, while others want to, as it was put, keep to the nitty-gritty super-realism styles.

 

This all boils down to OOC communication, or lack thereof. If even ONE person is going to toss aside all pretence and immediately start complaining about another, or if someone refuses to communicate or agree, then there will immediately be a problem. In the inevitable - and you'd really have to be deluding yourself to think it's not - event that different RP styles like this clash, OOC communication is a must. If there are problems in RP, they must be worked out civilly and calmly. Otherwise, tempers will flare, and people will start getting hostile. It's at that point that the fun ends and RP becomes drama.

 

The easiest way to solve any of this is to not label it as anything but a difference in style until otherwise seen. Communicate OOCly as to reach a consensus on how best to proceed where both RPers can agree on the actions, outcomes of actions, and the rest. It only becomes godmode when one player refuses to acquiesce and outright ignores the other player's actions, reactions, and attempts to communicate OOC to cease. It is NOT godmode, however, if neither player approaches the subject and one or both simply sit and stew that they "don't like how the other works." Please be aware that even in the most established RP communities, there will be new roleplayers that don't know these things, and need guidance. This is not godmode, either.

 

Granted, I know nothing of the reason for this thread in the first place, and the specifics of the incident that gave rise to the qualm in the first place, so this is kind of just my general input on situations like this.

 

tl;dr, OOC communication is absolutely essential to avoid unnecessary conflict and drama. Please, please, PLEASE do it!

[Dravus]

The biggest issue with 'communication' is that it has effectively become a bit of a buzzword. I see a lot of people highlighting how important it is - and they're correct - but then when it comes to in-game interaction I don't tend to see a whole lot of it. Or I do - but then it's on the opposite extreme where people request/expect permission for every little thing to the point where it's difficult for those involved to take the initiative with anything.

[Oilbasedoleander]

What exactly is there to divulge in?

 

Do not control my character's actions.

Do not control my character's reactions.

 

If you have to fight, have an outcome of "knockout only" or "mercy" if killing isn't the end result either desires. If you can't come to an agreement on who should be the winner, and the other person is not taking any hits and you are, you're just going to have to roll off on every move and hope your hit lands on target or misses.

 

I've fought free-style and had a blast. My character nearly died But it was dramatic and quite worth it.

 

I've also fought with dice/roll and it was also a lot of fun. We'd laugh at how close the rolls would be sometimes and would base our moves on the hit or miss. 

 

Both ways are enjoyable especially if you have someone willing to give and take along side you.

[Caspar]

What exactly is there to divulge in?

 

Do not control my character's actions.

Do not control my character's reactions.

 

If you have to fight, have an outcome of "knockout only" or "mercy" if killing isn't the end result either desires. If you can't come to an agreement on who should be the winner, and the other person is not taking any hits and you are, you're just going to have to roll off on every move and hope your hit lands on target or misses.

 

I've fought free-style and had a blast. My character nearly died But it was dramatic and quite worth it.

 

I've also fought with dice/roll and it was also a lot of fun. We'd laugh at how close the rolls would be sometimes and would base our moves on the hit or miss. 

 

Both ways are enjoyable especially if you have someone willing to give and take along side you.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty clear, but it's been obfuscated by a lot of confused posting missing the point about what they thing godmoding is. The idea is to not enforce arbitrary limits on another character without their say.

[Aduu Avagnar]

What exactly is there to divulge in?

 

Do not control my character's actions.

Do not control my character's reactions.

 

If you have to fight, have an outcome of "knockout only" or "mercy" if killing isn't the end result either desires. If you can't come to an agreement on who should be the winner, and the other person is not taking any hits and you are, you're just going to have to roll off on every move and hope your hit lands on target or misses.

 

I've fought free-style and had a blast. My character nearly died But it was dramatic and quite worth it.

 

I've also fought with dice/roll and it was also a lot of fun. We'd laugh at how close the rolls would be sometimes and would base our moves on the hit or miss. 

 

Both ways are enjoyable especially if you have someone willing to give and take along side you.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty clear, but it's been obfuscated by a lot of confused posting missing the point about what they thing godmoding is. The idea is to not enforce arbitrary limits on another character without their say.

Which isnt godmodding unless it is directly affecting your character. Me not taking a hit from a moon punter isnt godmodding, though it puta a limit on that character. Otherwise you are godmodding in nearly every interaction as your (non sepcofic your) view of the limits most likely varies from other peoples.

[Oilbasedoleander]

What exactly is there to divulge in?

 

Do not control my character's actions.

Do not control my character's reactions.

 

If you have to fight, have an outcome of "knockout only" or "mercy" if killing isn't the end result either desires. If you can't come to an agreement on who should be the winner, and the other person is not taking any hits and you are, you're just going to have to roll off on every move and hope your hit lands on target or misses.

 

I've fought free-style and had a blast. My character nearly died But it was dramatic and quite worth it.

 

I've also fought with dice/roll and it was also a lot of fun. We'd laugh at how close the rolls would be sometimes and would base our moves on the hit or miss. 

 

Both ways are enjoyable especially if you have someone willing to give and take along side you.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty clear, but it's been obfuscated by a lot of confused posting missing the point about what they thing godmoding is. The idea is to not enforce arbitrary limits on another character without their say.

Which isnt godmodding unless it is directly affecting your character. Me not taking a hit from a moon punter isnt godmodding, though it puta a limit on that character. Otherwise you are godmodding in nearly every interaction as your (non sepcofic your) view of the limits most likely varies from other peoples.

 

You're correct, not taking any hits during an RP fight is not grouped with god-modding. I was not trying to state that part should be lumped in under that definition. But they were talking about RP fights and fairness so I threw my two cents in on the subject.

 

It does, however, make you this unimaginably over-powered to someone you're fighting with and is quite a let down. Drama and action can't be a one-way street, there needs to be give and take for some enjoyment on both ends.

 

Which is why the roll off system is wonderful and highly recommended for fairness.

 

Unless you want your character to be flawless and over-powered.

 

Then... Good luck to you (most of these you's are generalized, haha).

[Aduu Avagnar]

Sorry, I shiuld have been more clear: me not being punted into the moon by said moon punter is not godmodding. Ill take the hit. But not fly away that far.