WoW Talk (Oh no...not this again)

[Parth Makeo]

I don't want to have to do LFR anymore. In fact, if LFR disappeared, I would be thrilled.

I feel the same (despite now just touching LFR for valor) and to be fair they nerfed HFC Normal to the point of it being essentially an LFR version. They removed some abilities and stuff to make it so accessible that LFR is completely moot by now. Only reason is for Valor for upgrades (if you need it)

[allgivenover]

A themepark MMO features linear paths winding around the content that is largely static. There might be different branching paths, like choosing one leveling zone over another, but despite that it's a themepark.

 

WoW is and always has been a themepark.

FFXIV is a themepark.

 

A sandbox features some amount of emergent content generated by players that can change the environment.

 

EVE is a sandbox.

Archage is a kind of a sandbox, some call it a sandpark.

 

How was vanilla WoW NOT a themepark MMO?

[Oli!]

A themepark MMO features linear paths winding around the content that is largely static. There might be different branching paths, like choosing one leveling zone over another, but despite that it's a themepark.

 

By this definition, any MMO that offers Quests becomes a themepark MMO.

 

Meaning that any MMO ever made save for something like Second Life, including those you listed as sandboxes, is a Themepark.

 

So this definition is too broad to be of any use.

[LiadansWhisper]

A themepark MMO features linear paths winding around the content that is largely static. There might be different branching paths, like choosing one leveling zone over another, but despite that it's a themepark.

 

By this definition, any MMO that offers Quests becomes a themepark MMO.

 

Meaning that any MMO ever made save for something like Second Life, including those you listed as sandboxes, is a Themepark.

 

So this definition is too broad to be of any use.

 

I believe that both Eve and Archeage allow you to actually make long-term changes to the game environment.

[Oli!]

 

 

 

I believe that both Eve and Archeage allow you to actually make long-term changes to the game environment.

 

They also offer "linear paths winding around the content that is largely static."

 

Both EVE and ArcheAge offer the ability to enforce some sort of legislation upon the game-world, and for ArcheAge, this is rather superficial to begin with (i.e., you can only control pre-designated areas, and build in pre-designated areas, and trade with pre-designated people). Even with EVE, if you go ahead and google "Is EVE a Sandbox MMO," you'll get plenty of debates on that very subject, with some people preferring to call it an "Open-Ended MMO" instead, meaning that this isn't nearly as clear-cut as people seem to think.

 

The problem is that people have different definitions as to what constitutes as "railroading" in an MMO. You can certainly say that some MMOs have more freedom of choice than others, but exactly how much Choice you must have in order to switch classification from one to the other is not at all clear-cut. If you wanted to, right now, you could log into WoW and pick flowers all the way to the level cap. It might be a weird choice, but that's a choice that the game allows you to make.

 

If you look at all games through the choice of what they "Allow" you to do, then you'll get a very different viewpoint than if you look at it through another lens. I'm not arguing that WoW hasn't lost a lot of the former open-ended nature that it had during Vanilla (even EVE has thrown some of this away; it used to be notorious for its lack of hand-holding, which they changed in future patches), just that at its launch, it wasn't strictly a "Themepark." However, unless we have a proper definition of what exactly the dividing line is, then we won't be able to resolve this argument.

[Parth Makeo]

 

 

 

I believe that both Eve and Archeage allow you to actually make long-term changes to the game environment.

 

They also offer "linear paths winding around the content that is largely static."

 

Both EVE and ArcheAge offer the ability to enforce some sort of legislation upon the game-world, and for ArcheAge, this is rather superficial to begin with (i.e., you can only control pre-designated areas, and build in pre-designated areas, and trade with pre-designated people). Even with EVE, if you go ahead and google "Is EVE a Sandbox MMO," you'll get plenty of debates on that very subject, with some people preferring to call it an "Open-Ended MMO" instead, meaning that this isn't nearly as clear-cut as people seem to think.

 

The problem is that people have different definitions as to what constitutes as "railroading" in an MMO. You can certainly say that some MMOs have more freedom of choice than others, but exactly how much Choice you must have in order to switch classification from one to the other is not at all clear-cut. If you wanted to, right now, you could log into WoW and pick flowers all the way to the level cap. It might be a weird choice, but that's a choice that the game allows you to make.

 

If you look at all games through the choice of what they "Allow" you to do, then you'll get a very different viewpoint than if you look at it through another lens. I'm not arguing that WoW hasn't lost a lot of the former open-ended nature that it had during Vanilla (even EVE has thrown some of this away; it used to be notorious for its lack of hand-holding, which they changed in future patches), just that at its launch, it wasn't strictly a "Themepark." However, unless we have a proper definition of what exactly the dividing line is, then we won't be able to resolve this argument.

Speaking of leveling however you want...

Remember the talk of the neutral pandaren who managed to level all the way to 100 and never pick either horde or alliance? Yeah...he did it all through herb and mining. It was insane. Some even decide to do the Iron Man Challenge with legit leaderboards.

 

If this is against the forum rules to link to other websites i am sorry, but it's kind of hard to just copy paste it. However if you want to see the rules for it, i suggest you do it.

http://wowchallenges.com/index.php?Show=IronManRules

And plenty of even long playing wow vets can sometimes mess up once in a while. Even watching some youtube videos of it can be fun and exciting since they only can wear up to white gear (no stats) and all.

[Gabineaux]

Oh yeah that global cool down plan ahead time. So I can plan accordingly for people standing in things. Aw yeah. Guess I better get good. 

 

:lol:

 

But yeah it looks like they're further simplified wow again. I guess that makes number crunching easier. I'm still butt devastated by this lore change with shadow priests. Old gods. Urghgghgg. URRGH.

[LiadansWhisper]

Oh yeah that global cool down plan ahead time. So I can plan accordingly for people standing in things. Aw yeah. Guess I better get good. 

 

:lol:

 

But yeah it looks like they're further simplified wow again. I guess that makes number crunching easier. I'm still butt devastated by this lore change with shadow priests. Old gods. Urghgghgg. URRGH.

 

Are you telling me that you don't want to turn into a tentacle monster of insanity?

[Gabineaux]

Oh yeah that global cool down plan ahead time. So I can plan accordingly for people standing in things. Aw yeah. Guess I better get good. 

 

:lol:

 

But yeah it looks like they're further simplified wow again. I guess that makes number crunching easier. I'm still butt devastated by this lore change with shadow priests. Old gods. Urghgghgg. URRGH.

 

Are you telling me that you don't want to turn into a tentacle monster of insanity?

 

Not realllyyyyy. I kind of liked my regular naughty priests. Oh well. I guess I'll have to live with tentacle priests if I go back.

[Lyse Falen]

Oh yeah that global cool down plan ahead time. So I can plan accordingly for people standing in things. Aw yeah. Guess I better get good. 

 

:lol:

 

But yeah it looks like they're further simplified wow again. I guess that makes number crunching easier. I'm still butt devastated by this lore change with shadow priests. Old gods. Urghgghgg. URRGH.

 

Are you telling me that you don't want to turn into a tentacle monster of insanity?

 

Not realllyyyyy. I kind of liked my regular naughty priests. Oh well. I guess I'll have to live with tentacle priests if I go back.

It's cool, most likely (just like every expansion and update since Wrath) they won't be comparable DPS to anything so why bother, right? AHAHAHAHA. :|

 

when I play WoW I priest (almost) exclusively, and I used to have shadow as a spec for the sake of viable dps in situations when I wasn't needed to heal, but eventually I gave up on that because we were consistently parsing last and never saw any love so I was like 'okay later, dink.'

 

That being said, this is likely the least excited I've been about a WoW expansion in a long time.  I don't need to see the new plethora of stupid RP going to arise from Demon Hunters and another patch of every time a hunter or mage falls from top DPS spot whinging for eight days until they get patched to be better like... nah.  I'm good over here with my XIV and my hatred of everything.

[Parth Makeo]

Wait huh?

I played as a mage exclusively since BC and not once have i really complained about my DPS. Whomever is whining must either not know how to gear/rotation or plays fire. I never felt a nerf in my life as a mage...aside from Amplify magic being added in WOD...then taken away in 6.2. Bye Bye raid utility.

[Lyse Falen]

Wait huh?

I played as a mage exclusively since BC and not once have i really complained about my DPS. Whomever is whining must either not know how to gear/rotation or plays fire. I never felt a nerf in my life as a mage...aside from Amplify magic being added in WOD...then taken away in 6.2. Bye Bye raid utility.

That was my point, yeah.  If Mages ever saw a dip in their dps, they'd have a fit.  They had a brief period where they were being outperformed and that changed fairly quickly.  It was the same with most hunters.  I'm not saying everyone who plays one does it, but they were rarely out of top ten dps (there was a glorious point in MoP when hunters were parsing near 20 and I had a happy gasm)

[Teadrinker]

Wait huh?

I played as a mage exclusively since BC and not once have i really complained about my DPS. Whomever is whining must either not know how to gear/rotation or plays fire. I never felt a nerf in my life as a mage...aside from Amplify magic being added in WOD...then taken away in 6.2. Bye Bye raid utility.

 

Mages sucked pretty bad in T6 if memory serves.

[LiadansWhisper]

That was my point, yeah.  If Mages ever saw a dip in their dps, they'd have a fit.  They had a brief period where they were being outperformed and that changed fairly quickly.  It was the same with most hunters.  I'm not saying everyone who plays one does it, but they were rarely out of top ten dps (there was a glorious point in MoP when hunters were parsing near 20 and I had a happy gasm)

 

No one screams louder than Holy Pallies and Disc Priests. No one.