WoW Talk (Oh no...not this again)

[Caspar]

The epeen measuring of raid difficulty means little. I see a lot of people argue XIV is easy simply because the party size is smaller, toget an idea of how flimsy the arguments can get.

[Parth Makeo]

The one thing. ONE THING I like about WoW over this game is the lack of a global cooldown. As a healer, that goddamn global cooldown just makes me want to strangle a dolphin sometimes. I log onto WoW and heal something and go holy shit what is going on I press a button and the thing happens? I still haven't gotten over it. I press my buttons while playing FF like if I press them faster the GCD will fuck off. It never does. My wrists hurt.

 

 

Having to think a few moments ahead rather than spam buttons to keep people alive can be a little inconvenient I guess.

An efficient player of any game that doesn't have XIV's GCD system has to think faster to play more effectively. XIV's system doesn't make you think anymore than any MMO combat system (If anything it's a safety net for people with slower motor skills.), and trying to fool yourself into thinking so is pretty ..well foolish.

 

How is having to avoid locking yourself out of being able to time your heals correctly a safety net? GCD isn't a safety net, it actually makes everything MORE difficult, not less.

 

I raid healed in WOW Wrath and XIV through Final Coil. In WOW I just had to stand in the right spots and make sure I had strong enough heals to make it, in XIV I had to plan ahead.

Raiding in XiV is a joke sir. No competitive raiding community takes XIV raiding seriously. Heroic Raiding in WoW (Now Mythic) is far more difficult than anything this game as thrown at you, and if you really want intense skill based raiding Wildstar had the hardest raiding I've ever encountered. (Another game you can't just stand there and heal.) Just because this game forces more movement than WoW did in WotLK does not make the GCD system make the game harder, it's only because you have to move more. (even then it's laughable to say XIV raiding is harder than WoW heroic (Mythic) modes.)

let's try not to get into a debate over which is better. I'm a mythic raider on Wow and i have tried doing coils before in FF14 a few times when it was relevant as a tank. I found that the dungeons are fine but when you get into the 8 man stuff and whatever it tends to get boring a lot. Looks nice though.

 

And only difficulty in wow raiding is getting the actual 20 people needed for mythics.

[-no longer matters-]

The epeen measuring of raid difficulty means little. I see a lot of people argue XIV is easy simply because the party size is smaller, toget an idea of how flimsy the arguments can get.

Actually smaller party, raids should be harder if any game scaled the difficulty correctly (something MMO communities have been at odds about forever.) In theory smaller group raid content should have less room for errors, less chances of someone being carried.. but sadly that's not how they work, they get tuned down to be easier which blows my mind.

[Virella]

Eh, having raided in WoW and FFXIV both. I find that WoW has more room for error in the raids, whereas FFXIV is like skipping a rope, and as soon on tumbles over, you most likely all going to end up flat up on your face.

[allgivenover]

USER HAS BEEN WARNED FOR THIS POST[/b]]

Actually smaller party, raids should be harder if any game scaled the difficulty correctly (something MMO communities have been at odds about forever.) In theory smaller group raid content should have less room for errors, less chances of someone being carried.. but sadly that's not how they work, they get tuned down to be easier which blows my mind.

 

What are you talking about? XIV raiding is so tight that one mistake can kill 10 minutes of perfect playing.

 

Raiding in XiV is a joke sir. No competitive raiding community takes XIV raiding seriously.

 

Really? If it's such a joke I guess you've got all that down. Let's have a look.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm so shocked.

 

EDIT: For future reference: you're supposed to hide your lodestone achievements BEFORE you start posting as if you know what you're talking about. That way it's not immediately apparent that you have no idea.

 

In b4 "this is my roleplay alt".

 

[-no longer matters-]

Psst I have more than one character. Gwen is mostly an RP character, and my 3.0 character.

I was going to post my 2.0 character on Hyperion but since you had to be a shit lord about it nah, I don't feel I have to justify myself to you.

[Warren Castille]

Generally speaking, anyone commenting on raid difficulty is obligated to link their achievement. If you won't do your lodestone for your old main, your mythic kills on Armory will do.

[-no longer matters-]

USER HAS BEEN WARNED FOR THIS POST[/b]]

Generally speaking, anyone commenting on raid difficulty is obligated to link their achievement. If you won't do your lodestone for your old main, your mythic kills on Armory will do.

Or I can tell people to get bent, because you ain't the boss of me? I don't need to "prove" anything to any of you. If the language I'm using isn't proof enough because of your own insecurities and the nagging voice in the back of your head that I'm right.. you feel you need justification, well that's your problems.

 

Had I been asked nicely, I would have but since we're playing the shit lord games, you can all get fucked.

 

[Warren Castille]

The reason you're not asked nicely is because any discussion on any raid, in any game, usually ends up with people who haven't even seen the opening room to an encounter begin discussing mechanics and concepts and stuff. I fondly remember people without Sea access piping in on BG trying to tell people how to kill Absolute Virtue. Your comments sound juuust generic enough that it echoes the words of every person who's watched a video or saw a write-up for an encounter and decided they became an expert on it because they watched others do it.

 

You would know this is you were in those spaces. You're taking this very personally when it doesn't have to be.

[Parth Makeo]

please guys. this is what i was worried about when i would post something that involves World of Warcraft. I even said it at the start that this was not meant to start any debates

idc what game has the more 'Difficult' mode of raiding when both are in a way equal in their own rights. Mythic 20 mans having difficulty with throwing in new abilities and even having one DPs dead during progression on them can lead to a wasted encounter much like in FF14 which it too has difficulty in it. Trust me, i learned the hard way after failing with Odin with minimal DPS on him and people not moving out of bad.

 

BACK ON ACTUAL TRACK!

 

They also recently posted the Artifact weapon talents on MMOchamp and Arcane Mage may be my new spec with not only being able to summon an arcane familiar but the hope that this one makes it into the game.

 

• Aegwynn's Ascendance (Rank 1) - Your Evocation makes you invulnerable and causes you to deal massive damage based on the mana your Evocation restores.
   
  

:3

[Nero]

Lodestone sniping is not permitted as under Section 4 - Attitude and Tone.

 

Keep the discussion and your responses civil or this thread will have to be locked.

 

The report button exists. Don't add to the flames.

[Ozma]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

[Parth Makeo]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

I was expecting a neat idea of seeing a pre-shattered Draenor: I got that and liked it.

I was expecting an epic narrative with the Orc leaders: I ALMOST got it but they ruined Bladefist during beta...

I was expecting having Pre-Black Temple as ally base: Not happened.

Lore would be bad: and got that.

PVE would be fun: And it was. but that was 50% why i wanted WOD

PVP would be fixed: and still nothing

and stuff for casuals/stuff to occupy yourself with when not raiding: and...got nothing until like a week ago with the Valor grind and what not.

 

Overall the game for me was a let down and boring. MOP was far more entertaining even back when it was current for me...except the legendary cape ground (I thought it would be class weapons...but i swear they changed it at the last second in 5.2) and at least in Cata i was doing things outside of raid. With WOd i did nothing. no need to gather supplies and stuff. all in your garrison. I'll still get Legion cause i like to raid and some of my pals are excited to play their class. Even our main tank was given the chance to be a Demon Hunter tank :3

[111]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

 

I just want an older school MMO experience again, where you have to group to do things. Where getting through the monsters and into a new town is an achievement. I'm playing Vanilla WoW to relive some of that, but I don't think they're ever going to head back to that format. 

 

I'm getting a little tired of the theme park model :C

[allgivenover]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

 

I just want an older school MMO experience again, where you have to group to do things. Where getting through the monsters and into a new town is an achievement. I'm playing Vanilla WoW to relive some of that, but I don't think they're ever going to head back to that format. 

 

I'm getting a little tired of the theme park model :C

 

Having to group to get stuff done has nothing to do with a game being themepark or not.

 

What you want is a game that has no solo accessibility, which was FFXI at the 75 cap pre-abyssea and pretty much every game that came out before WoW.

[111]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

 

I just want an older school MMO experience again, where you have to group to do things. Where getting through the monsters and into a new town is an achievement. I'm playing Vanilla WoW to relive some of that, but I don't think they're ever going to head back to that format. 

 

I'm getting a little tired of the theme park model :C

 

Having to group to get stuff done has nothing to do with a game being themepark or not.

 

What you want is a game that has no solo accessibility, which was FFXI at the 75 cap pre-abyssea and pretty much every game that came out before WoW.

Nah that's not true. 

 

I think you can have a mix. A solo player can get through eventually if they're careful and go slowly. In order to progress quickly you have to make friends and do things together. 

 

Vanilla WoW is really scratching the itch for me, LOTRO did the same at launch.

[Oli!]

I've actually never just had to "stand there and heal" in WoW, personally. Which is part of the reason why I liked it.

 

That was probably because I was playing Resto Druid (which only has one Nuke Heal on a CD of 1 minute, everything else was a HoT except for one other spell that was shit anyway), but that was in fact the reason why I liked the class. Much more micro-management (i.e., keep those HoTs up on everyone and don't fuck up).

 

I think the deal with WoW compared to XIV is that XIV roughly places everything on the same level of difficulty, whereas with WoW there are some classes that are, either purposefully or not, harder than others, which means that people will hate you if you use them poorly.

 

There are other games that are also doing that (TERA has class difficulty spelled out on their webpage, for example), so it's not something that's confined totally to WoW. But if we're going to give one game the crown of Super Hard Raiding, that game is going to be Wildstar, because there really isn't any competition. Sadly, the rest of the game was too boring for me to get to that point, but the world bosses were Bullshit enough. Take a look at any video of a Wildstar raid, and you'll immediately be able to tell just how good your reflexes have to be for something like that. The game practically billed itself on it.

 

Sadly the numbers tanked, and most of the people that are interested in that content are gone, from what I last heard, so getting to experience that sort of content is probably a rare chance at this point.

 

To be fair though, neither WoW nor XIV has "joke dungeons" or "joke raids," really. If any MMO has joke dungeons, that would be GW2, where if you have the right party composition you can negate basically half your incoming damage by standing on top of each other.

[Parth Makeo]

But if we're going to give one game the crown of Super Hard Raiding, that game is going to be Wildstar, because there really isn't any competition. Sadly, the rest of the game was too boring for me to get to that point, but the world bosses were Bullshit enough. Take a look at any video of a Wildstar raid, and you'll immediately be able to tell just how good your reflexes have to be for something like that. The game practically billed itself on it.

 

Sadly the numbers tanked, and most of the people that are interested in that content are gone, from what I last heard, so getting to experience that sort of content is probably a rare chance at this point.

That and...well there is a reason Blizzard trashed 40 man raids. My turn off from Wildstar before it went Free to Play was some people noting about how raids were 20 man and 40 man structured and what not. If endgame was going to be vanilla wow again i'd rather do a private server for that. 

Granted i saw some fights and they do look fairly hard from look alone

[allgivenover]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

 

I just want an older school MMO experience again, where you have to group to do things. Where getting through the monsters and into a new town is an achievement. I'm playing Vanilla WoW to relive some of that, but I don't think they're ever going to head back to that format. 

 

I'm getting a little tired of the theme park model :C

 

Having to group to get stuff done has nothing to do with a game being themepark or not.

 

What you want is a game that has no solo accessibility, which was FFXI at the 75 cap pre-abyssea and pretty much every game that came out before WoW.

Nah that's not true. 

 

I think you can have a mix. A solo player can get through eventually if they're careful and go slowly. In order to progress quickly you have to make friends and do things together. 

 

Vanilla WoW is really scratching the itch for me, LOTRO did the same at launch.

 

I'm not sure what statement you're calling 'not true', the one where it has nothing to do with themeparks or the one where solo accessibility is nonexistent?

 

Because both Vanilla WoW and pre-Abyssea XI had little in the way of solo friendliness past a certain point, and both were themeparks through and through.

[Momoka]

I know Im late to the party but like...man I only played wow for the pvp by the end of it, and as a boomkin I just shat on people left and fucking right. it was dumb. no skill needed, no gear needed, just smash starsurge/fall and g fucking g. I hit 2k on my hpriest and my boomkin, and then I was like...well now what. when I do feel frisky and log in I galivant around with my fancy pvp/pve titles and realize how little I care these days and then go play this shit game or league. man fuck video games, they suck up so much of my free time.

[111]

 

 

Nah that's not true. 

 

I think you can have a mix. A solo player can get through eventually if they're careful and go slowly. In order to progress quickly you have to make friends and do things together. 

 

Vanilla WoW is really scratching the itch for me, LOTRO did the same at launch.

 

I'm not sure what statement you're calling 'not true', the one where it has nothing to do with themeparks or the one where solo accessibility is nonexistent?

 

Because both Vanilla WoW and pre-Abyssea XI had little in the way of solo friendliness past a certain point, and both were themeparks through and through.

 

I'm not sure what definition you're using for 'themepark'. 

 

I view it as the game has certain 'attractions' and the gameworld only exists as a place for giving people access to those attractions. 

 

I don't really think Vanilla WoW is set up that way, despite what people say. You definitely are not railroaded or hand held, and after a certain point the player is left to their own devices besides vague quests that say things like 'talk to that guy' 

 

Are you arguing that MMOs haven't become more linear and streamlined over time? I'm not saying MMOs need to be archaic and obtuse, just that I wish they weren't so souless. I honestly can't bring myself to log on and run another stupid fucking straight line Eso Dungeon. No wonder people are always mad in duty finder, they don't want to be in there, and they're not having fun, so they get mad at you if you make it take any longer than it has to.

[LiadansWhisper]

The one thing. ONE THING I like about WoW over this game is the lack of a global cooldown. As a healer, that goddamn global cooldown just makes me want to strangle a dolphin sometimes. I log onto WoW and heal something and go holy shit what is going on I press a button and the thing happens? I still haven't gotten over it. I press my buttons while playing FF like if I press them faster the GCD will fuck off. It never does. My wrists hurt.

 

Having to think a few moments ahead rather than spam buttons to keep people alive can be a little inconvenient I guess.

 

That's not really how it works, as a healer. Sure, you think ahead, but remember that you're playing the game against both the encounter and your fellow raiders. Being unable to react to things kind of sucks.

 

However, I disagree with Izzy about the GCD. WoW has a GCD, and I routinely clip GCD all the time as a healer in that game. It's just, the GCD is a lot faster.

[Oli!]

 

 

 

I'm not sure what statement you're calling 'not true', the one where it has nothing to do with themeparks or the one where solo accessibility is nonexistent?

 

Because both Vanilla WoW and pre-Abyssea XI had little in the way of solo friendliness past a certain point, and both were themeparks through and through.

 

Vanilla WoW was hardly a theme-park during its first few patches in, and one could even argue that it wasn't until BC anyway.

 

Vanilla WoW didn't even have battlegrounds at first; the reason why those were implemented in the first place was because people were interrupting quest chains by killing people and sacking towns in order to fill their PvP fix. It also had no overarching storyline until BC, quests were self-contained storylines that sometimes branched into others throughout zones, otherwise you just did whatever the hell you wanted.

 

And that was without the initial exploration factor before they added flying mounts; there were so many things that were tucked super stealthily into zones that you really had to put in effort and go off the roads to find (the secret Rogue mansion in Hillsbrad somewhere was my favorite), and there were tons of Off The Rails fun to be had (such as running through the swamps as a teen-level toon in order to get to all the good shit in Stormwind).

 

And that's without getting into the fact that this was a time before QuestHelper, or even before MMOs decided to give you the courtesy of telling you were your quest objectives were.

 

Vanilla WoW was many things, but Theme Park, I would say, was not one of them.

[LiadansWhisper]

I raid healed in WOW Wrath and XIV through Final Coil. In WOW I just had to stand in the right spots and make sure I had strong enough heals to make it, in XIV I had to plan ahead.

 

This explains a few things.

 

Wrath healing was a joke, in the vast majority of cases unless you were doing bleeding-edge content undergeared.

 

Healing isn't like that anymore. The raiding scene honestly isn't like that anymore. Encounters have only become more complicated over the years.

[LiadansWhisper]

I feel like everyone is getting derailed here. 

 

But let me ask the veteran community who migrated over to FFXIV as I have. 

 

What did you hope for in Warlords of Draenor? And if Blizzard did not live up to your expectations in WoD but they have redeemed themselves in Legion, would you consider playing it again?

 

What did I hope for?

 

Oh god, where to begin...

 

I really wanted them to address healing. It's been off the rails for two expansions now, and they keep trying to "fix" it mid-expansion (or just stick their heads in the sand and try to pretend that every raid isn't saving 2 of 3 spots for a Disc Priest and a Paladin, and letting the other four specs fight it out for the third raid spot). If they don't get a handle on Disc, that will be it for me. I'm tired of being forced to play the most boring fucking spec in the game (seriously, there is absolutely no "skill" involved in blanketing the raid in Power Word: Shield and Clarity of Will...I mean, unless you call "setting my raid frames up to track Weakened Soul and Clarity of Will duration" skill).

 

I'm tired of mana not being something I care about. I want to be juggling mana the way I was back in Cata - not in 5 mans, necessarily, but we need this in raids where the mana restrictions have been increasingly looser with each expansion. Supposedly they were gonna address that, but lol, nope!

 

I'm sick of Legendaries that completely change the way the game is played. I should not have to worry that if I take a month or two month break, I won't be able to effectively join a guild for the rest of the expansion because I'm just too far behind. I was hoping that after they saw the bullshit that the cloak put guilds through, they would stop that, but nope!

 

I don't want to have to do LFR anymore. In fact, if LFR disappeared, I would be thrilled.

 

I was hoping they would address the completely obscene gear inflation we got in MoP, and at first I thought they were going to do that with the item squish. But...

 

LOL

 

No. They actually doubled down and made the gear inflation worse this time around. Which has directly contributed to healer mana and healing getting out of control.

 

I also was hoping for more to do than there turned out to be to do. Without flying, a lot of otherwise fun things became...just a study in frustration. I got sick of it.