discussion Your opinions on certain theories

[Morningstar1337]

No, this is not related to my character, I finally got THAT weight off my chest an if I do a Group RP, then she is unlikely to be in such a position for that to happen anyway. This is just something I'm curious about. Do you put any stock in the theories about the WoL being either a Primal/Tempered by Hydaelyn or anything similarly implausible in canon but liable to turn a messianic character into a dangerous one that must be stopped? Do you consider such theories a potential flaw or no?

[Kilieit]

I don't know how I think of the "tempered by Hydaelyn" thing because on the one hand: I think it's likely...

 

But on the other hand: Balmung SL Aghurlal has (somewhat unknowingly - he's only had the meteor dream) disregarded the will of Hydaelyn, despite having the Echo. Which wouldn't work if the Echo was evidence of him having been tempered in Her name. So... obviously not.

 

And if the theory that the Warriors of Darkness are Carteneau's Warriors of Light holds any water, then She obviously hasn't exerted Her will directly over them, either. Unless the Ascians have somehow developed a method to reverse the tempering process.

 

I guess the way we write it in our WoL AU is that Hydaelyn could exert Her will over our characters if She wished, but it's simply not Her way. She styles Herself as a mother, and She likely knows enough about motherhood from millennia of watching it take place upon Her surface to know that a good mother does not directly control Her children.

 

...but She does manipulate them. She picks people with something missing. Usually a mother figure. Minfilia is among them, and obviously, she's been subject with most strength to Hydaelyn's... um, grooming.

 

So is my Warrior of Light, Aghurlal. His mother was killed when he was a baby, and he believes his life would have been better if she hadn't been. (He's right, but I digress.) But he's also pretty paranoid as a person and, as the fact he did so in Balmung SL attests, relatively willing to tell Hydaelyn to go screw Herself if She asks him to do something he isn't comfortable with.

 

So: introducing Hydaelyn's ticket to control over Aghurlal's actions, Shirogawa Mitsuhiko. Played by my levelling partner, Shiro is also missing a mother figure; only he remembers his, and misses her. He's earnest and sweet-natured, socially intelligent, diplomatic, and affectionate with his friends... but also gullible. He's a little weaker physically than Aghurlal is. And he follows most of what Hydaelyn asks of him almost completely unconditionally.

 

You know what else Aghurlal is missing? Well, a fairly major part of his backstory is that he used to have a lover - another man who he was very fond of. Only, this lover was also killed in a very traumatic event for Aghurlal. He used to pine after him every day and view himself as a monster for being unable to save him.

 

Hydaelyn asked Minfilia to introduce Aghurlal to Shirogawa. Romance blossomed, and Aghurlal worked through his issues RE: losing his old lover by way of "doing better this time" for Shirogawa.

 

So Hydaelyn now has a situation where She can sweetly ask things of Shirogawa, Shirogawa will do them, and Aghurlal will join in because he loves Shirogawa very much and doesn't want to let him do dangerous things on his own. All without Hydaelyn needing to exert Her will directly over either of them.

 

 

As for WoL as a primal... I mean, I have a few tin foil hat theories that the WoL has summoned Primals onto themself.

 

à la Shiva or Thordan, really. The bit that stuck out to me was the DRG 50 quest where Haldrath, the First Dragoon, suddenly appirates around you and literally banishes your powerful enemy from the arena. You know, that thing that it took an entire 8-man party to do, later on.

 

But the "what are you?" is very telling as well, and something that's been weighing very heavily on WoL!Aghurlal's mind lately. Shirogawa's perspective is "well, no matter what we are, if we stop people are going to die," and Aghurlal agrees with him to a certain extent. But he's also not sure he can ignore the questions in his heart any more. I think it's likely he'll go travelling with Thancred and Alisaie, leaving the diplomatic-minded Shirogawa to play the role of ~The Warrior of Light~ in Ishgard while Aghurlal tries to learn the truth behind matters. Even if he doesn't like what he finds, he'll still feel better for knowing, he thinks. There's a reason I set his title to .

 

I'm reminded of Louisoix, who, when all was said and done, planned to summon Primals in order to save Eorzea - no different from any beastman. And then became one. By accident, but nonetheless - the precedent has already been set that even the "good guys" can do this Bad Thing that we spent two expansions dwelling on what a Bad Thing it is. Not only do the Bad Thing, but become the Bad Thing.

 

It's questions about the end justifying the means and whether it's really that different for us to do it when, whoever it is, it means that Hydaelyn has started eating people as a means to sustain Herself. (An oversimplification, but nonetheless.)

 

It would surprise me if it turned out that we were, or that it was irreversible, or that it was an unequivocally Always Bad Thing. Because at the end of the day, we're the player-characters, which means we're the protagonists - until SE intends to put down the cash-cow that is our subscriptions, the storyline is unable to end in any sort of definitive way in the forseeable future. And this plot hook has been brought up so consistently and so often that I'm unsure how long they can put off resolving it without irritating people.

 

 

TL;DR: Yes and no. Depends on the intentions of the writers as to the tone of the story. But it's definitely interesting to think about.

 

Today on kilieit doesn't know how to write anything without writing an essay. ;;

[LiadansWhisper]

Mmmm. While I think it's possible that Hydaelyn could "temper" someone if she so desired, I don't think it's likely that the WoL is tempered.

[Nero]

I don't lend much credence, but I don't have the "WoL is tempered" theory completely thrown out the window just yet. Tempering has been shown to be pretty universal: it induces slave-like devotion. We have yet to see if Hydaelyn's tempering is somehow different from the primals.

 

So it's possible, perhaps.

[Kellach Woods]

Tempering as per Primals? Until we confirm that Hydaelyn is a primal, that goes in the conspiracy theory folder.

[Kilieit]

Tempering as per Primals? Until we confirm that Hydaelyn is a primal, that goes in the conspiracy theory folder.

 

Well, by my understanding, the way the Primals temper you is by flooding your aetherial essence with theirs until they resonate together.

 

The meteor dream always looked a whole lot like that, to me.

 

I don't think you have to be a "summoned by devout worshippers, can be banished" type of creature to have a large aetheric reservoir with a strong resonance capable of bringing other aetheric entities into line.

 

It's a conspiracy theory, yeah - but one that's hinted at by NPCs, including some of the actual Primals. I think it's fair to discuss it as a possibility.

 

---

 

Oh, something that just occured to me to add, though - even if the WoL isn't a Primal themself, the existence of the Blade of Light always struck me as odd. Amassing a huge amount of aether into a particular shape... (shrugs)

[Valence]

 

But on the other hand: Balmung SL Aghurlal has (somewhat unknowingly - he's only had the meteor dream) disregarded the will of Hydaelyn, despite having the Echo. Which wouldn't work if the Echo was evidence of him having been tempered in Her name. So... obviously not.

 

And if the theory that the Warriors of Darkness are Carteneau's Warriors of Light holds any water, then She obviously hasn't exerted Her will directly over them, either. Unless the Ascians have somehow developed a method to reverse the tempering process.

 

Technically the echo has not much to do with Hydaelyn since even Ascians have it.

 

The blessing of Light though... yeah.